Cheney comits treason by secretly encoraging an Israeli strike on Iran: Newsweek

[whistle]

<corrected link to this story on Reuters>
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2323126720070923

<snip>
Cheney mulled Israeli strike on Iran: Newsweek
Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:06pm EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Vice President Dick Cheney had at one point considered asking Israel to launch limited missile strikes at an Iranian nuclear site to provoke a retaliation, Newsweek magazine reported on Sunday.

The news comes amid reports that Israel launched an air strike against Syria this month over a suspected nuclear site.

Citing two unidentified sources, Newsweek said former Cheney Middle East adviser David Wurmser told a small group several months ago that Cheney was considering asking Israel to strike the Iranian nuclear site at Natanz.

A military response by Iran could give Washington an excuse to then launch airstrikes of its own, Newsweek said.

Wurmser's wife, Meyrav Wurmser of the neoconservative Hudson Institute think tank, told Newsweek the claims were untrue.

Wurmser left Cheney's office last month, the magazine reported. The steady departure of neoconservative hawks from the administration has also helped tilt the balance against war, it said.

Washington has been pursuing diplomatic efforts to persuade Iran to alter its nuclear program. It has refused to take military options off the table, even U.S. resources are taxed by having 169,000 troops in Iraq.

Although some intelligence sources say Iran is years away from nuclear capability, Israel believes that military action may be necessary as early as 2008, Newsweek said.

Israel has declined to comment on the reported air strike, while Syria has denied receiving North Korean nuclear aid and said it could retaliate for the September 6 violation of its territory.

<non-working link> http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN232312...


<also see> www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20920341/site/newsweek/page/3/

The link is to page 3..the quote is on that page.

So what the hell is congress waiting for? Impeach Cheney now!

[acmavm]

1. When you find out what the hold up is, please let me know. I would have

thought treason would have been one hell of a no-no.

[gratuitous]

2. I suppose an investigation is out of the question

After all, Emperor Chimpy has declared that he and his administration aren't gonna talk about it, so that's the end of that.

[partylessinOhio]

3. Impeach Darth and his chimp too!

:thumbsup:

Put on your best dress, Squeaker, and Mr. Mouse too, and get on with it. The Constitution mandates: you must impeach for treason.

[Buzz Clik]

4. I scanned through the article and didn't see where Cheney talked to Israel.

It says he mulled it over but didn't actually ask.

I'm bad at reading quickly -- did I miss something?

[whistle]

6. That is what the article says "mulled" that is correct

define mulled, mull·ing, mulls
v.tr.
To go over extensively in the mind; ponder.
v.intr.
To ruminate; ponder: mull over a plan.

Definition of ponder

chew over: reflect deeply on a subject; i.e. "I mulled over the events of the afternoon"

That is way beyond what a vice president is supposed to do especially regarding a criminal act that would take the U.S. into war! Cheney needs to be impeached now!

[Buzz Clik]

16. I'm not sure you can be impeached for pondering.

But thanks for the dictionary screen cap -- it verified that I know the definition of "mull".

[Ghost in the Machine]

23. The fact that he "mulled it over", and obviously SPOKE about it to

someone else should be enough to get him for CONSPIRACY to commit treason, right?

Hang that bastard NOW! On live TV. Just. Do. It.

[Kelly Rupert]

26. Not really, no.

Conspiracy involves at minimum an agreement to commit a crime. For all we know, the situation might have been as follows:

----------

CHENEY: "Hey, you think we should ask Israel to bomb Iran? I think that'd be a great idea."
OTHER GUY: "Nah. There are some pretty thorny Constitutional issues with that."
CHENEY: "I don't really think that's a problem; I don't think there's any real precedent for advising allied nations being considered a crime. Maybe we could see if Justice could look into that."
OTHER GUY: "Even if it isn't criminal, Dick, Congress would probably shut down all funding for any sort of operation, don't you think?"
CHENEY: "Yeah, I guess that wouldn't actually work."

-----------

This is not a crime, nor is it conspiracy. It's someone asking if something would be feasible, and deciding not to go ahead with it. Not criminal.

[Ghost in the Machine]

31. Go read a few cases where someone has talked to someone else

about killing their spouse, yet when they decided not to do it, but were still charged with conspiracy to commit murder. Yeah... just for talking to someone about it.. even though they had a "change of heart".

[Kelly Rupert]

33. In the cases you're referring to,

(at least the one I'm aware of), an agreement to kill was struck, and one party later reneged on the agreement. That's the crucial part you're missing. Considering committing a crime is not illegal.

Now, considering how to commit a crime (with the implicit agreement that the crime will be committed one way or another) is indeed illegal, and I think you're missing the distinction.

[Ghost in the Machine]

39. How about this case?

Me: (drunk, in a bar, many years ago) "damn, I sure would like to find a good sack of green"..

PIB: (Person in bar) "I can go get you some right now"...

Me: "is it some good shit"?

PIB: "Yeah, really good"..

Me: "how much"?

PIB: "$45 for a 1/4 oz"

Me: "cool! I can work with that"..

PIB: "give me the money and I'll be back in 20 mins"

Me: "naw, that's alright dude, I NEVER give money first, I like to see what I'm buying. If you can't cover it, I don't want it. I'd rather see *you* get stuck with it if it ain't no good."

Me: arrested for conspiracy to possess marijuana.

Now.. what crime did I commit?

[Kelly Rupert]

42. Conspiracy to possess marijuana, of course.

The problem is this: in announcing that you found the price acceptable and would purchase upon examination, you declared your intent to, with PIB, commit the crime of possession of marijuana. You agreed to purchase marijuana from him. The fact that you found the delivery (and lack of quality control) of the deal unacceptable does not alter that.

A good analogy with the Cheney situation would be if you had said to the person to your other side, "I'm thinking about asking that guy if I can buy some marijuana. What do you think?," which would not be illegal (presuming you do not in the course of that conversation decide to purchase marijuana, and presuming that it was not stated as a thinly-veiled declaration of intent)

[Ghost in the Machine]

45. Now you're just talking in circles...

"The problem is this: in announcing that you found the price acceptable and would purchase upon examination, you declared your intent to, with PIB, commit the crime of possession of marijuana. You agreed to purchase marijuana from him. The fact that you found the delivery (and lack of quality control) of the deal unacceptable does not alter that.

So we can say that Cheney "declared his intent" by talking about it with someone from his staff, yet he didn't follow through. He still conspired with someone else to commit a crime. It's simple, really....
why is it so hard for you to see? The fact that someone else KNOWS about the plan means that he discussed it with someone, unless it was a psychic mind reader who released the story...

Edited: for bad HTML

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

34. 2 sources said Wurmser told a small group Cheney considered asking Israel to strike Iran.

THAT is what is reported (quite different from what you proposed).

THAT is treason. THAT is a conspiracy to violate our own Constitution.

I'm not sure why you so adamantly defend Cheney's behavior. However, the behavior, e.g. considering the utilization of one nation to pull in our country into a war with another nation, is criminal no matter how much one tries to minimize such behavior.

[Kelly Rupert]

44. He's still "considering asking" Israel. Until you can say,

"Cheney asked Israel," or "Cheney floated the idea past Israel," or even "Cheney consulted with several aides on how best to approach Israel regarding a potential airstrike," there's no case. Note that such behavior is different from "Cheney consulted with several aides on the viability of asking Israel to bomb Iran," which would not be conspiracy.

I'm not seeing any intent to ask Israel, just consideration of the benefits and costs of doing so. He clearly has intent to see the Iranian facilities destroyed by some means, but that is not illegal per se.

[H2O Man]

5. Impeach Cheney.

Thank you for posting this.

The MSNBC link worked for me, but the Reuters one did not.

[H2O Man]

7. I found it

and 70 more, using google!

[whistle]

11. Good I corrected above and link and am posting here also

<corrected link>
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2323126720070923

[whistle]

8. Sorry, but I included the full content of the Reuters report, I'll try to find

...a better link and correct it. It did work originally. Thanks

[H2O Man]

10. The MSNBC

link provides a far better article. I did find the other one, and many more. The world is more aware of what Cheney is doing than is the American public.

[whistle]

12. It indeed does, but I also wanted the original Reuters which broke

...the story about this being in this current issue of Newsweek hitting the stands and subscriber's mail today

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

13. Is that because the CM censors information to the American public? (recommended btw)

I know, I know,....REALLY dumb dumb dumb question. However, I think it's important to acknowledge the failure to sustain a "free" press in this country.

[whistle]

15. I have no idea as the original post link was a working link but I have corrected

...the OP

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

9. I wonder if that's how the strike on Syria played out. Cheney asked, Israel complied.

:shrug:

It's not like the PNACers haven't rolled incitement by an "ally" into the potential equation for an expansion of the M.E. war.

Seriously, though,...I can't imagine that, if the neocons are going to pursue their course, they will hesitate to do so (e.g. expand the war) in order to retain power over the executive branch.

(edited,...I get in a hurry and well you know how that goes)

[whistle]

14. Cheney acted that is almost certain and now Congress MUST act

....to stop any further response by the U.S. military. An emergency session of congress must be called today....ASAP

[Kelly Rupert]

20. Based on the hunch that Cheney was involved in the Lebanon war?

Hunches are also not exactly a case for impeachment.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

46. No. We are talking about the Israeli strike IN SYRIA. n/t

[Kelly Rupert]

17. So where's the treason here?

Best I can see is the Vice President "considering asking" Israel to launch an airstrike. I don't exactly think that's impeachable.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

18. It shows an intent to avoid the Constitution by using another country to pull the USA,...

,...into another war. It is conspiring to get our country into another war via utilization of another country's actions.

That is treason. If there are two witnesses to this activity by the VP (and the article indicates there are two witnesses, you have a rock solid case.

[Kelly Rupert]

19. Actually, no, it doesn't.

Considering, mulling, and pondering are not criminal. You can ponder killing your boss all you want, but that isn't murder. You can consider asking a friend to help you kill your boss, but until you have that conversation, that isn't conspiracy.

Pondering is not a crime.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

21. "Pondering" is indicative of "planning" a conspiracy to engage in war,...

,...in violation of our laws, in violation of his oath of office.

You can take up his defense if he is ever charged with the crime. I won't.

[Kelly Rupert]

22. Considering committing a crime is not the same as conspiracy to commit a crime.

It never has been, and never will be. You're simply spinning fantasies here.

[Ghost in the Machine]

24. You're wrong. Quit spinning disinformation.

go read up on some conspiracy cases and get back with us.

[Kelly Rupert]

28. Unfortunately for you,

I actually know what the hell I'm talking about. Conspiracy is at minimum an agreement to break the law. No such agreement has been struck. Consideration of an action is obviously not conspiracy.

[Ghost in the Machine]

36. Unfortunately for you, you obviously *don't* know what the hell you're

talking about. That you're a law student doesn't impress me, nor make me think what you say holds legitimacy. Hey, when I was a senior in high school, I had to embarrass my english teacher in front of the whole class by pointing out that she was WRONG when she told a student how the word "slough" was spelled "S-l-e-w"...

Read a few more conspiracy cases and get back with me...

[Kelly Rupert]

37. How about this, then?

You give me a case--a single case--suggesting that your interpretation of conspiracy law is correct, and my legal encyclopedia's is wrong. I've already given you the likely cause of your confusion, so please don't post anything for which that would apply. Give me a case in which conspiracy has been proven, in which no agreement, explicit or implicit, has been struck to commit a crime.

[Ghost in the Machine]

41. See post #39... n/t

[Kelly Rupert]

43. Done n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

29. Do you have a law degree? n/t

[Kelly Rupert]

30. Not quite yet.

Only a lowly 1L.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

35. Ah. So, you haven't even completed a course in either criminal or constitutional law, yet. nt

[Kelly Rupert]

38. Nope. Does it matter?

Are you telling me that I cannot possibly understand the rather clear-cut case law on conspiracy?

[rhett o rick]

48. Stupid argument. Impeachment is off the table. Nancy wouldn't impeach Cheney if he pushed the

nuc button himself.

The republicans are leading the Democrats in Congress around by their noses. How embarrassing that nothing seems to be bad enough for the Democrats, that supposedly represent us, to get tough. They condemned an action group that represents much of the Country and mostly if not all fellow Democrats. They choose to side with the republicans against their own.

If there is any hope, please, please someone tell me.

[Totally Committed]

25. But, but, but...... MoveOn printed that ad!

Ugh. I'm so sick of the Democrats in the House and Senate, I could scream.

TC

[yardwork]

27. Cheney commits treason every day. Impeach Cheney now.

[Swamp Rat]

32. Cheney said, "It was all just a dream."

and "Go fuck yourself."

[Rex]

40. Treason? Mr Go Fuck Yourself?

Mr I Shot Someone In The Face So What? Nahh...impossible! Deadeye Dick loves our military! He wouldn't use them for his own personal gain! Neva. Eva.

[rhett o rick]

47. Impeach Cheney??? Congress is too busy condemning Moveon.org. nm

[MiniMe]

49. Well, I guess according to the new patriot act, the thought police can arrest you

Like those guys in the garage down in Florida, who were talking about doing something with airplanes. They had no money, no tickets, and no real plan, just a what-if situation. As far as I know, they are still in jail. So there is some kind of precedent, all we have to do is to get him declared a terrorist.

[DemReadingDU]

50. morning kick