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Aw...all the Republican pundits say Dems overplayed their hand with Move On ad.

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:27 PM
Original message
Aw...all the Republican pundits say Dems overplayed their hand with Move On ad.
Of course they do. Funny, though...they won't ask any DEMOCRATS what they think of the Move On "Betray Us" ad. Not one. But the party who supports Bush by a whopping 57% margin says we've overplayed our hands. This is truly theater of the absurd.

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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kerry said he thought it was "over the top."
Didn't condemn it though.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. I thought it was over the top. I didn't agree with it.
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anniebelle Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here we go retreating already.
These pundits are going to try to make us back down any way they can. If they can use MoveOn, that'll work as long as "we" buy into it. I wish MoveOn would do more "over the top". :bounce:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. MOVEON should run ads of Freddy.....like the ones we see here...
OLD and WEATHERED.....
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. I thought the ad was stupid.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. one questions, what if Petraus offers some actual truth, will that be disregarded?
i'm not saying he will have any truth but since he's not done yet who knows, maybe there will be some surprises during the question and answer part.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. How on earth will we ever know?
No one has seen it for real. We fly in Congressmen, then bunk 'em in the Green Zone Palace with hookers and discos and every Western amenity, and they never ever see the real Iraq...there is no way of knowing what is real, BushCo has made sure of that. If they cared about their credibility, they'd have been truthful from the outset.

.
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joe6565 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. donate money
I going to donate some money right now to move on .org
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. That's why I thought the ad was stupid, aside from being a childish name-calling PR disaster.
You can't pre-emptively declare someone not credible--you have to let him testify, and THEN fact-check. He will tell the truth, I believe, for the most part--it's his SPIN that would do the damage. Either way, let the man speak before judging him.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. The WHITE HOUSE pre-emptively declared him not credible
when it said it would review his findings and write his report. OOPS! A public relations backlash...so the WH added "The White House did not write this report" to the preface.

And you BOUGHT IT?

.
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daninthemoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. They should have at LEAST waited for the report to happen.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
10. Waste of money and time
When will they figure out that truth is what is needed.
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joe6565 Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. let the repugs let you
stick your tail between your legs, just like they run over the spinless dems....
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think it lower the levels of the debate - and hurts efforts to persuade the American people
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 01:19 PM by karynnj
"betray us" IS disgusting and juvenile - like middle school name calling. I get infuriated that the RW talk show people routinely refer to good men, like Kerry, Durbin, and Reid as "traitors" - this is equivalent to that.

Look at what you wrote:

DEMS overplayed their hand with moveon ad. The media and even you equivalence this garbage with the serious efforts of the Democrats really working on the issue. If you are old enough, remember how McGovern, a soft spoken, South Dakota WWII fighter plane pilot war hero was undermined by Republicans linking him to the chaos of the late 1960s.

I bet that every top Democratic candidate for President will be forced to attack this ad by nightfall. This is stupid when the pure unvarnished facts are in our favor and the public has already shifted.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh well. As long as we're so willing to play into the Republicans' hands
...I guess we might as well bend over and take one up the pooper for them, too. Yup. We overplayed our hand by daring to criticizing them, using the very information the GOP-controlled media has been spouting for over a weak...that the report would be written by BushCo for Patreaus to read. Which he's doing very well. But, oops...I must not criticize him. He's got shiny things on his vest.

.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. No
Responsible Democrats have over the last year and before changed the opinion of many people previously convinced the war was necessary and likely to be successful - this was NOT done by hate filled harangues, but through reasoned dialogs. I saw many good Democrats on this weekend - intelligently reminding people that the goal of the surge was to allow political progress - which has been weak.

If you remember in 2004, the covertly taped Nixon tapes - never intended for public hearing - showed that the Nixon people had no fear of the hippie protesters - they said we were ugly and frightened America - we were not a threat, because their base would never listen to us. They were frightened though by John Kerry - because he could reach people then supporting the war. It was not just that he was a war hero, it was because he was articulate, informed and polite. Today people like Congressmen Murphy and Sestack and others like Jon Soltz and John Powers are people who can speak to these issues and be successful actually reaching people.

Why worry? Remember 1972.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Yep--DEMS didn't put out this ad--MoveOn did. I would like to see
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 12:57 PM by wienerdoggie
them marginalized and distanced from the Dem party. They're not doing us any good.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I would like to see the Dem party marginalized and distanced...
...from the American people.

For the most part, the Democratic Party is worthless. At best they're a bunch of spineless capitulators; at worst, they're a bunch of shameless collaborators.

We won't be seeing much help from the current Dem party.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. So, isn't this democraticunderground?
Are you lost?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think it was a good ad, but I think it would have been better if played
AFTER Petreus spoke at the hearing. I know, I expect him to support Shrub's plan too, but it would have been better for everyone to SEE that first before knocking the Gen.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. "Framing the Debate."
'Nuff said.

.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, if they say so...
it must be true.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm so confused. Is MoveOn, the outer fringe players that don't matter to anyone? Or is MoveOn the
cutting edge voice of all Democrats everywhere?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. You'd think the DNC ran the ad. Hey, it's a free country
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. Fuck 'em, the lying pieces of shit. -n/t
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Trust me, the world will see what moveon stands for
moveon does not stand for the Dem party. Once we take the White House in 2008, moveon will be protest President Clinton as much, if not more, then they are protesting the surge.

moveon represents the "end the drug war / end NAFTA / end NCLB" crowd. Most elected Dems support the drug war / nafta / nclb.

moveon will be the next third party, God Willing.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. So here's a curve ball...what is your stand on A.N.S.W.E.R.?
I've spoken out against ANSWER before, because they appear to be just in it for their own agenda, or worse, an asset of the very government agencies which have brought about the very chaos we're protesting. And people get irate that I question them.

So I, like others in this thread, am confused. ANSWER is good. "FREE MUMIA!" "FREE AIR TIME FOR ANSWER!" but MoveOn.org is BAD with "STOP THE WAR!" "GENERAL BETRAYUS!" Why? I don't get it. Supposedly we're ALL in it for the same reason, to stop this fucking war. But apparently the PC Police are intent on running the anti-war movement into the ground, just as they have free speech.

If MoveOn speaks for 1/40th, 1/10th, even 1/6th of the Democratic Party, MoveOn should be allowed to speak, and should not be so heavily criticized for it. YOU won't get every Democrat behind YOUR beliefs. Nor will MoveOn or ANSWER or anyone else. But each and every one of them represent some basic core belief of Democrats, and it is fucking madness for us to keep eating our own while the Republicans seem perfectly content to BLOW their own.

.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-11-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. ANSWER is for radicals
moveon has some mainstream cache...

ANSWER is more of a Green party deal then a dem party deal.

peace and low stress my friend
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
23. And did the Swift Boaters overplay THEIR hand in the 2004 election?
I never heard the WH shills complaining about those ads. In fact...they played the ads over and over and over and over and over. HYPOCRITES.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. that was a stupid ad. nt.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
30. did they say that about all republicans when they swift boated Kerry? i think not
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. And don't forget how they went after Murtha.
Let them have their crying game.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. ALL Imperial Amerikan media, ESPECIALLY the grotesque Punditry is Theater of the Absurd
We have stared into madness for so long, as a nation. Making ourselves insane will billions and billions, perhaps trillions and trillions of subconscious-manipulating messages and advertisements for so long now.

All Imperial Amerika has become a Theater of the Absurd and I will say again BECAUSE IT HAS TO KEEP BEING SAID, regardless of the outcome of Election 2008, if substantial action is not taken at the highest levels to reduce coruuption and restore some small iota of the Power of the America People, which right now stands at ZERO, the danger is nearly as great, and I exaggerate here not at all,

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Bear-Witness-1933-1941-Paper...

as if we lived in Germany 1937.

Oh, the timelines will be different, and the spefic details cannot be foreseen. It may take us one year to get to 1938, it may take two decades (that would be nice, wouldn't it?), but that we are on some form of that path is nearly incontrovertibel, the objective similarities in langueage and political thinking and propaganda are now far too numerous to ignore.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. Yeah, the same folks that had the gall to blame the Foley page scandal on the pages.
:eyes:

Not the best crowd to go to for logical talking points.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. Running ads with the toweres and Iran in the same syllable, though--Dignified!
bastards.
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