Aw...all the Republican pundits say Dems overplayed their hand with Move On ad.

[Atman]

Of course they do. Funny, though...they won't ask any DEMOCRATS what they think of the Move On "Betray Us" ad. Not one. But the party who supports Bush by a whopping 57% margin says we've overplayed our hands. This is truly theater of the absurd.

.

[Chipper Chat]

1. Kerry said he thought it was "over the top."

Didn't condemn it though.

[TwilightGardener]

2. I thought it was over the top. I didn't agree with it.

[anniebelle]

3. Here we go retreating already.

These pundits are going to try to make us back down any way they can. If they can use MoveOn, that'll work as long as "we" buy into it. I wish MoveOn would do more "over the top".

[opihimoimoi]

4. MOVEON should run ads of Freddy.....like the ones we see here...

OLD and WEATHERED.....

[Connie_Corleone]

5. I thought the ad was stupid.

[AlCzervik]

6. one questions, what if Petraus offers some actual truth, will that be disregarded?

i'm not saying he will have any truth but since he's not done yet who knows, maybe there will be some surprises during the question and answer part.

[Atman]

8. How on earth will we ever know?

No one has seen it for real. We fly in Congressmen, then bunk 'em in the Green Zone Palace with hookers and discos and every Western amenity, and they never ever see the real Iraq...there is no way of knowing what is real, BushCo has made sure of that. If they cared about their credibility, they'd have been truthful from the outset.

.

[joe6565]

9. donate money

I going to donate some money right now to move on .org

[TwilightGardener]

20. That's why I thought the ad was stupid, aside from being a childish name-calling PR disaster.

You can't pre-emptively declare someone not credible--you have to let him testify, and THEN fact-check. He will tell the truth, I believe, for the most part--it's his SPIN that would do the damage. Either way, let the man speak before judging him.

[Atman]

29. The WHITE HOUSE pre-emptively declared him not credible

when it said it would review his findings and write his report. OOPS! A public relations backlash...so the WH added "The White House did not write this report" to the preface.

And you BOUGHT IT?

.

[daninthemoon]

7. They should have at LEAST waited for the report to happen.

[sandnsea]

10. Waste of money and time

When will they figure out that truth is what is needed.

[joe6565]

18. let the repugs let you

stick your tail between your legs, just like they run over the spinless dems....

[karynnj]

11. I think it lower the levels of the debate - and hurts efforts to persuade the American people

"betray us" IS disgusting and juvenile - like middle school name calling. I get infuriated that the RW talk show people routinely refer to good men, like Kerry, Durbin, and Reid as "traitors" - this is equivalent to that.

Look at what you wrote:

DEMS overplayed their hand with moveon ad. The media and even you equivalence this garbage with the serious efforts of the Democrats really working on the issue. If you are old enough, remember how McGovern, a soft spoken, South Dakota WWII fighter plane pilot war hero was undermined by Republicans linking him to the chaos of the late 1960s.

I bet that every top Democratic candidate for President will be forced to attack this ad by nightfall. This is stupid when the pure unvarnished facts are in our favor and the public has already shifted.

[Atman]

14. Oh well. As long as we're so willing to play into the Republicans' hands

...I guess we might as well bend over and take one up the pooper for them, too. Yup. We overplayed our hand by daring to criticizing them, using the very information the GOP-controlled media has been spouting for over a weak...that the report would be written by BushCo for Patreaus to read. Which he's doing very well. But, oops...I must not criticize him. He's got shiny things on his vest.

.

[karynnj]

25. No

Responsible Democrats have over the last year and before changed the opinion of many people previously convinced the war was necessary and likely to be successful - this was NOT done by hate filled harangues, but through reasoned dialogs. I saw many good Democrats on this weekend - intelligently reminding people that the goal of the surge was to allow political progress - which has been weak.

If you remember in 2004, the covertly taped Nixon tapes - never intended for public hearing - showed that the Nixon people had no fear of the hippie protesters - they said we were ugly and frightened America - we were not a threat, because their base would never listen to us. They were frightened though by John Kerry - because he could reach people then supporting the war. It was not just that he was a war hero, it was because he was articulate, informed and polite. Today people like Congressmen Murphy and Sestack and others like Jon Soltz and John Powers are people who can speak to these issues and be successful actually reaching people.

Why worry? Remember 1972.

[TwilightGardener]

21. Yep--DEMS didn't put out this ad--MoveOn did. I would like to see

them marginalized and distanced from the Dem party. They're not doing us any good.

[Ladyhawk]

24. I would like to see the Dem party marginalized and distanced...

...from the American people.

For the most part, the Democratic Party is worthless. At best they're a bunch of spineless capitulators; at worst, they're a bunch of shameless collaborators.

We won't be seeing much help from the current Dem party.

[karynnj]

26. So, isn't this democraticunderground?

Are you lost?

[napi21]

12. I think it was a good ad, but I think it would have been better if played

AFTER Petreus spoke at the hearing. I know, I expect him to support Shrub's plan too, but it would have been better for everyone to SEE that first before knocking the Gen.

[Atman]

15. "Framing the Debate."

'Nuff said.

.

[rucky]

13. Well, if they say so...

it must be true.

[Nickster]

16. I'm so confused. Is MoveOn, the outer fringe players that don't matter to anyone? Or is MoveOn the

cutting edge voice of all Democrats everywhere?

[spanone]

17. You'd think the DNC ran the ad. Hey, it's a free country

[porphyrian]

19. Fuck 'em, the lying pieces of shit. -n/t

[mdmc]

22. Trust me, the world will see what moveon stands for

moveon does not stand for the Dem party. Once we take the White House in 2008, moveon will be protest President Clinton as much, if not more, then they are protesting the surge.

moveon represents the "end the drug war / end NAFTA / end NCLB" crowd. Most elected Dems support the drug war / nafta / nclb.

moveon will be the next third party, God Willing.

[Atman]

28. So here's a curve ball...what is your stand on A.N.S.W.E.R.?

I've spoken out against ANSWER before, because they appear to be just in it for their own agenda, or worse, an asset of the very government agencies which have brought about the very chaos we're protesting. And people get irate that I question them.

So I, like others in this thread, am confused. ANSWER is good. "FREE MUMIA!" "FREE AIR TIME FOR ANSWER!" but MoveOn.org is BAD with "STOP THE WAR!" "GENERAL BETRAYUS!" Why? I don't get it. Supposedly we're ALL in it for the same reason, to stop this fucking war. But apparently the PC Police are intent on running the anti-war movement into the ground, just as they have free speech.

If MoveOn speaks for 1/40th, 1/10th, even 1/6th of the Democratic Party, MoveOn should be allowed to speak, and should not be so heavily criticized for it. YOU won't get every Democrat behind YOUR beliefs. Nor will MoveOn or ANSWER or anyone else. But each and every one of them represent some basic core belief of Democrats, and it is fucking madness for us to keep eating our own while the Republicans seem perfectly content to BLOW their own.

.

[mdmc]

35. ANSWER is for radicals

moveon has some mainstream cache...

ANSWER is more of a Green party deal then a dem party deal.

peace and low stress my friend

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. And did the Swift Boaters overplay THEIR hand in the 2004 election?

I never heard the WH shills complaining about those ads. In fact...they played the ads over and over and over and over and over. HYPOCRITES.

[IndianaJones]

27. that was a stupid ad. nt.

[spanone]

30. did they say that about all republicans when they swift boated Kerry? i think not

[gatorboy]

33. And don't forget how they went after Murtha.

Let them have their crying game.

[tom_paine]

31. ALL Imperial Amerikan media, ESPECIALLY the grotesque Punditry is Theater of the Absurd

We have stared into madness for so long, as a nation. Making ourselves insane will billions and billions, perhaps trillions and trillions of subconscious-manipulating messages and advertisements for so long now.

All Imperial Amerika has become a Theater of the Absurd and I will say again BECAUSE IT HAS TO KEEP BEING SAID, regardless of the outcome of Election 2008, if substantial action is not taken at the highest levels to reduce coruuption and restore some small iota of the Power of the America People, which right now stands at ZERO, the danger is nearly as great, and I exaggerate here not at all,

http://www.amazon.com/Will-Bear-Witness-1933-1941-Paper...

as if we lived in Germany 1937.

Oh, the timelines will be different, and the spefic details cannot be foreseen. It may take us one year to get to 1938, it may take two decades (that would be nice, wouldn't it?), but that we are on some form of that path is nearly incontrovertibel, the objective similarities in langueage and political thinking and propaganda are now far too numerous to ignore.

[gatorboy]

32. Yeah, the same folks that had the gall to blame the Foley page scandal on the pages.

Not the best crowd to go to for logical talking points.

[librechik]

34. Running ads with the toweres and Iran in the same syllable, though--Dignified!

bastards.