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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:27 PM
Original message
Nukes over Amerika (continued)
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 04:15 PM by Rick Myers
In the continuing saga of "Oops, Who's got the Nukes?" we get this bit of info from the Air Force Times:

"All ACMs loaded with a nuclear warhead have distinct red signs distinguishing them from ACMs without a nuclear yield, he said. ACMs with nuclear warheads also weigh significantly more than missiles without them."

-- Because there is NO SUCH THING as a non-nuclear AGM-129. It's got a warhead or it doesn't. The W-80 series warhead is the only warhead this missile was built to carry. There is NO conventional warhead for an AGM-129. So HOW THE HELL did the munitions team, the flight crew and the crew chief MISS the 'distinct red signs' on six missile loaded under their aircraft's wings???

AND:

"Its still unclear specifically how the B-52s flight from Minot to Barksdale would have been different since most nuclear security protocols are classified. But, Kristensen said the flight pattern might have been different since there would have been airspace restrictions. Also, security at both airports would have heightened considerably and the communications between the pilot and the control towers would have been altered, he said."

-- This statement CLEARLY indicates NO ONE had a CLUE these weapons were on board. Otherwise the flight would have been contacted via secure comm that they were, in fact, toting six nuclear warheads. "There would have been airspace restrictions?" Like NOT flying over the dozens of cities there flight path probably included?

Complete AF Times article here: http://www.airforcetimes.com / (original direct link fails, try this link and click on story on page)

What makes this story so significant (to me) is the fact that the military NEVER discusses such incidents. The Military Times (owned by Gannett, not the Pentagon) was clearly tipped off by someone or this story would have never seen the light o' day. One thing you will notice in today's coverage is the 'they were being decommissioned' part of the story has vanished. Actually, these weapons were in the process of being UPGRADED, 38 scheduled for fy 2008, out of a total of 394. They will be IN SERVICE until fy 2030 and are designed to attack HARDENED targets. Bunkers. Underground C&C facilities.

Yesterday there was some confusion (on my part) about actual numbers of said weapon. The correct numbers are 394 in inventory (per AF datasheet) with 38 being upgraded this year. Ironically, elsewhere on the Internets the AF says they have 400, but the budget document indicates 394. For you tin-foil types, he difference is 6. Boo!!!
Because someone will question my sanity, I'm sure the difference in numbers is a coincidence. OK???

This was either the biggest screwup since Jack Ripper decided "to protect our precious bodily fluids," or someone was DELIBERATELY moving nuclear weapons to Barksdale, which is a frontline facility "in support of the Global War on Terrorism; they have played vital roles in combat operations supporting Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan and Operation Iraqi Freedom." That is THEIR description, not mine...

Links to previous threads: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

continued here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...








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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another approach:
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. My take on that thread:
Yes, eventually the AGM-129 will be phased out, most likely replaced by the X-51 hypersonic cruise missile. But the AF budget docs referenced yesterday clearly state that the AGM-129 will be around until fy 2030. 38 of them are being upgraded this year.

Info on the X-51: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-51

It is MY argument that it took a colossal failure of the munitions crew, the flight crew and crew chief to make a 'mistake' like this.

One thing to notice is that today there is no mention of 'decommissioning.' Both Minot and Barksdale have equivalent Munitions Squadrons to handle such devices. Flying 'live' weapons to Barksdale when Minot has the same facilities makes no sense...
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ptvet Donating Member (215 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Ahh yes, decommissioning
Didn't take too long for that reason to disappear from official story-dum. You know I hadn't thought of Minot in years, let alone said "why not" Minot. Bet there are a few folks starting their own variation of that old saying now....
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for keeping this in the forefront, Rick! Great work. n/t
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. To The Greatest Page With You!
Thanks Rick, for all your hard work.
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Flabbergasted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. The AF Times link is not working? nt
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Try this
http://www.airforcetimes.com /

Then click on link to story...

Kinda funny, their 404 page says 'this article is AWOL'
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. It sure is good to know that
someone is on top of these things! Keep up the good work.
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Gets more disturbing .... if that's possible .....
Question Rick .... any idea if it is "normal protocol" when moving these types of weapons to be 'decommissioned as they say ' that they be MOUNTED UNDER THE AIRCRAFTS WINGS? ..... As in locked and loaded???? :scared: Hmmmmm anyone on this? Just layman common sense to me would be to transport such a destructive weapon in a crate on board a transport plane? But what do I know? :shrug: And on that thought ...... the guys who dropped the first nuke on Japan way back when didn't know what they were carrying till it went off below them did they? ..... Wonder if and when such bunker buster missiles are ever used on Iran (God Forbid) the pilots will know what payload they are carrying at the time or not too ...... Peace and thanks for keeping us updated on this story Rick.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I have just spoken to an AF crew chief, just retired in 2000
It is NOT normal protocol to move these weapons on combat aircraft. All movement of nuclear devices is by CARGO aircraft, and the weapons are dismantled and packed in very special high-secuiry cases. Additionally, when nuclear weapons are loaded about any aircraft, EVERYONE in the operation MUST wear a dosimeter badge to measure exposure! The two-man, no-alone zone is mandatory and the crew is given only a limited time to work on each load or unload due to exposure risks!!!

There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY the flight crew did not know they were carrying nuclear weapons!
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thanks for that. As you know, I had the same questions.
Clearly, we're being LIED TO, and the lies are changing and evolving.

Someone, somewhere, cut orders to load that plane with nukes.
And those orders were followed.

The resultant flap, and the dishonest explanations, indicate
that those orders weren't quite on the up-and-up.

Whatever happened there was NOT a legitimate transfer of ordinance,
and it sure as hell wasn't an honest mistake. That's all I know for
sure. Beyond that is still "Heare be Tynfoil" territory.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I know you are one of the people interested in this story
It's getting weird now... Curiouser and curiouser...

Now the command would not believe the airmen reporting the 'situation?'

Now the aircraft sat on a ramp for TEN HOURS without any additional security?

I suspect we'll know alot more in the next few days. Sooner or later someone in the MSM should steal our research!!!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
43. I work at a place that has some AF pilots of various experience...
I also rode boomers when I was in the navy. I asked one of them today, if he was tied up with the Barksdale stuff. He knew *exactly* what I meant. I told him that when I was riding boomers that this could never happen with a nuke, and asked if he thought it could ever happen with AF protocols. He said no, and agreed with me it's most likely not a result of crainium rectum inversion and there's something else going on, without speculating the something else.

He agreed with me that it's "pretty fucking scary" our exact words there.

-Hoot
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Actiually the crew of the Enola Gay KNEW what
they carried

They trained intesnsely for that misison stateside, and they also had scientists on board to both photograpth the effects and actually arm the weapon

Moreover, the reason why the crew had to know is for flying purposes, it changes the take off profile for the B-29 back in '45 and now.

Now the crew of the USS Indianapolis, which transported both nukes didn't know what exactly they had in the cargo container
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Absolutley correct, nadinbrzezinski
They literally had to dig a hole to get the bomb under the B-29!

The aircrew knew, as well as it could be explained at the time...

I have actually TOUCHED the fuselage of Bock's Car, the plane that dropped on Nagasaki, and it's still a living thing, IMHO! It's a memory I will never forget. It stils in the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB.
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doublethink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #32
50. I stand corrected.
Guess my comment above was a broad based brush ..... um kinda vague statement on the fly earlier .... ;) Anyway yea the Enola Gay crew trained extensively for that mission .... guess I shoulda just said the actual destruction of the bomb awed the crew in the end kinda sorta. Here's an article on that for what it's worth .....

SPIEGEL: Did you know you were using the atomic bomb on Hiroshima?

Van Kirk: They didn't tell me a damn thing, but if you had any brains and you were in our organization you could figure it out. They did tell us that we would be dropping a bomb that would essentially destroy an entire city. -snip-

The amount of the devastation and destruction that the bomb had caused surprised all of us. -snip-

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,368433,00.ht...

Anyway Jesus said 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do" .... maybe that's what I meant to say in this case too. Peace.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm watching you
:hi:
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. A minor correction based on a discussion with an AF crew chief
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 05:19 PM by Rick Myers
In the first post of this tread, I said:

"Because there is NO SUCH THING as a non-nuclear AGM-129. It's got a warhead or it doesn't."

This is true. But, there is a non-nuclear 'practice' warhead that ground crews use in training. It is CLEARLY marked as "INERT, NON-NUCLEAR" and bears the standard blue and yellow markings to indicate a 'dummy.'

This does NOT effect the story in any way, since the 'live' warheads bear at least 3 separate markings that they are, indeed, nuclear weapons.

The six AGM-129's carried on this aircaft bore the RED 'nuclear' markings, comfirmed in the Military Times coverage.

Additionally, a defense anylyst told defensetalk.com that NO LIVE NUCLEAR WEAPON has been flown on a US combat aircraft since the late 60's, following a series of accidents involving alert aircraft. Here's a link to the article (site does not allow clipping)

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/wmd/B-52_carrie...
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
54. That's either bullshit or the story
about a B-52 ditching 3 SRAMS off the coast of Somolia during Gulf War I is...
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R
Thank you, Rick, for keeping on this story. It is very important.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. Another Chilling bit of information
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 07:17 PM by Rick Myers
A Brief History of Nukes in the Air

The last time the Air Force is known to have flown nuclear weapons on a bomber was during the so-called Chrome Dome missions in the 1960s when the Air Force maintained a dozen bombers loaded with nuclear weapons in the air at any time. The program, formally known as the Airborne Alert Program, lasted between July 1961 and January 1968. The program ended abruptly on January 21, 1968, when a B-52 carrying four B28 thermonuclear bombs crashed on the ice off Thule Air Base in Greenland during an emergency landing. The accident followed another crash in Spain in 1966 and several other nuclear incidents.

by Hans M. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists

Mr. Kristensen is considered a leading authority on nuclear weapons programs, systems and protocols. I have some more material from him that I will go thru this evening. He also claims to be the person that 'broke' the story that the USAF was decommissioning these weapons. This is contradicted by current USAF budget documents, which state the weapon will be in inventory until fy 2030.

And so it goes.

Update: I'm currently in contact with Mr. Kristensen via email. I will keep DU up to date...
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't know if you have seen update on what has happened since but....
it has some good info as to how long the the bombs were unsecured, it was longer than the 3 1/2 flight, they remained unsecured for another TEN hours. It also gives the name of the Commander who was relieved of duty at Minot, his name is Lt. Colonel Paul Wheeless.


Fallout Continues From Bomber Flight

They thought it was a joke message - sent accidentally.

That was the reaction of some officers in the Pentagon when they received what's called a "bent spear" message last week.

snip

But even after the three-and-a-half hour flight, it wasn't until much later that the warheads were finally secured and removed from the bomber.

snip

Sources in Congress say the timeline shows the six nuclear warheads were not retrieved or even identified as being nuclear munitions for almost ten hours after their arrival at Barksdale.

more

http://www.kxmc.com/News/159695.asp


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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. WOW!!! Great find Spazito!!!
I've been scanning the media, but have spent the past few hours talking with 'professionals' who have experience handling nuclear weapons.

That is an AMAZING report!!!

The weapons SAT (unprotected, unless you think a 19 year old kid with an empty M-16 is much of a threat) on a parking ramp for 6 hours AFTER they arrived at Barksdale...

This story is going Strangelove really quickly!!!

Thanks for the info!!!
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thanks but the credit really goes to Snazzy who posted the link
in the LBN thread on this. I thought it was an important article to circulate among the threads on this 'incident' so have been trying to share it where I can.

It boggles my mind that they sat unprotected for hours AFTER the landing. Will there be an investigation on this 'error' as well? What happened during those 6 - 10 hours while they were unsecured? Will heads roll on this as well?

More questions keep being generated re this and precious little answers. It is interesting that Congress has received a report already seeing as some seem to be trying to sell the belief this is relatively 'ho-hum'.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Lt. Colonel Paul Wheeless
almost ten hours
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Lieutenant Colonel Paul Wheeless is up on blocks now
I still think that there is much more to this story
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. A photo of Colonel Wheeless has surfaced on the Internets
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. you brat!
how did you know I was looking for one?
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. This story has Strangelove all over it!!!
Here's how the Air Force is handling the whole incdent:




"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. IT'S GETTING REALLY STRANGE CHECK YOUR PM
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 10:45 PM by seemslikeadream
SO THE MILITARY IS LOOKING FOR FOSSETT?

AND THERE IS A BOMB MISSING?



AND SATELLITES ARE SEARCHING FROM SPACE FOR FOSSETT?

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123066968
http://www.blackanthem.com/News/U_S_Military_19/Nevada_...
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. It makes sense that the AF would aid in searching for a downed aircraft,
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 11:25 PM by Rick Myers
especially considering Fossett's profile. I hope he is found alive and well, he's a real explorer!!!

If a bomb was missing, the scale of the search would most likely reveal itself pretty quickly... Also, the B-52 incident happened on 30 August.

But there are other 'crazy' aspects of this story that need to be looked into...

THANKS for all your assistance in this quest... It's great to do this in front of all of DU, it allows for critical review of every little aspect of the story.

This is STRANGELOVE 2007!!!
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
57. oh man... that takes the cake! n/t
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. Were they testing the system in June?
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/media/index.html

FEMA hijacks Midwest broadcast signals with mistaken presidential alert
The federal government hijacked radio and TV transmissions in the Midwest yesterday with test signals that triggered the sort of high-level emergency alert that is reserved for use by the president.

The Quincy Herald says alerts were sent at 7:33 a.m., 7:49 a.m., 7:55 a.m. and 8:07 a.m. Radio listeners heard nothing but dead air. TV viewers saw a scrolling message that said: "The Emergency Action Notification Network has issued an emergency action notification for the United States, beginning at ..."

FEMA tells the Associated Press that the mistake affected Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Wisconsin and Michigan.

"While the interrupted morning drive-time broadcasts proved the Illinois system worked, the fact that what's known as an Emergency Action Notification, or EAN -- the highest level of EAS alert, indicating an emergency message is coming from the White House -- could be relayed mistakenly to override stations was a bit of a jolt, sending engineers scrambling at the affected outlets throughout Illinois and in adjacent media markets such as St. Louis," the Chicago Tribune reports. "Compounding the error, an actual presidential code, minus any audio explanation, was sent rather than a lesser alert or a notification of a systems test of some kind."

A FEMA spokeswoman tells the paper that this "unintentional disruption" occurred after a new piece of equipment in Springfield, Ill., picked up test signals that were being sent between Cleveland and Richmond, Va. WLS-TV expands on this explanation: "The federal emergency management agency is adapting satellites to handle emergency messages, and a government contractor Tuesday was testing it for Illinois, except he used active codes to send the message."

The Congressional Research Service has a report on the emergency alert system.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. That video is shocking!!! This should be a page one story nationwide...
Nothing like this has happened, EVER! And to think the command would not listen to the airmen reporting the incident! What the hell? I'd really hate to be Lt. Col. Paul Wheeless...

Again, it's just STRANGELOVE 2007!!!

President Merkin Muffley:
"General Turgidson, I find this very difficult to understand. I was under the impression that I was the only one in authority to order the use of nuclear weapons."

General "Buck" Turgidson:
"That's right, sir, you are the only person authorized to do so. And although I, uh, hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like, uh, General Ripper exceeded his authority."

President Merkin Muffley:
"You're talking about mass murder, General, not war!"

General "Buck" Turgidson:
"Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops. Uh, depending on the breaks."

6 Nuclear weapons go 'off the reservation' for 13.5 hours and we are supposed to feel SAFE... Make that 'fail safe!!!'
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Key to success: the little brown book
:rofl:

Key to success: the little brown book
http://www.minot.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123032056

Commentary by Lt. Col. Paul Wheeless
5th Munitions Squadron commander

11/16/2006 - MINOT AIR FORCE BASE, N.D. -- I could never catch the first sergeant in my last squadron without his little blue Air Force core values book in his left breast pocket. It became akin to doing a coin check. A chief, he ultimately served our service 30 years (including 15 years as a first sergeant). Among the many things he continuously mentored in me and others was our commitment to being an Airman above that of our particular vocation.

During our tour together, Air Force Instruction 36-2618, The Enlisted Force Structure, was overhauled by the 14th Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force. The "little brown book" as it is sometimes referred to defines us as "Airmen, rather than merely specialists." Its philosophy recognized the technical nature of our service and the diversity of our many functional areas, but filled a need for a consistent set of expectations and professional development regardless of specialty.

The beauty of the little brown book is its clarity and simplicity. It details responsibilities for Airmen in one chapter, non-commissioned officers in the next, and, finally, the senior NCO. The responsibilities for NCO and senior NCO are additive, meaning they are responsible for meeting the expectation of the lower tiers of the enlisted force as well as their own.

Since the revision and re-publication of this powerful pocket guide to Airmanship, I have been surprised by the limited awareness of its contents (even though it is standard fare in most enlisted professional military education). I have also been a little dismayed at some who don't live up to or enforce its standards.

Many of us in more senior positions often get asked for advice on how to succeed in the Air Force. The answer is simple: do your best to live up to the expectations contained in these complementary pocket books. Airmen that do this make the biggest contribution to the mission and to the development of their subordinates.

So pick up your copy of this 20-page booklet and add it to your core values book and carry them with you. Use it in feedback sessions to guide and develop your troops.

Most importantly, review it yourself and reflect on how you are doing and what you can do better. Trust me, if you do, you will surely have a very strong future in the Air Force.
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ryanus Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. case closed. It was not a mistake
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ok this cinches it for me
and I will be reaching for the pepcid AC tonight...

God... this was NOT an accident, no matter how much lipstick and how many heads roll
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Wait until tomorrow!!! I expect to hear more from several sources...
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 09:49 PM by Rick Myers
The whole story has gone off the rails...

There will be 2 reports, eventually, the one we here about and the REAL one!!!

The average Joe doesn't know what is going on, and he really won't care much... But this is a BIG story!!!

added on edit: I will be running the new info past my crew chief and hope to hear from Hans Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists. I've posed several specific questions about this story.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Interesting contacts
and given how these things work, yep... I can see all the way to three reports

1.- The civilian version for civie consumtion, so sanitised you could operate with it... yep it is that sterile

2.- Report for internal consumption, after all this broke into the Military Press... still sanitized... but not as much as the civie version

2.- the real report
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. Another freaky fact to consider:
If ANY NUCLEAR device is moved (except for combat loading), a DOE armed courier ALWAYS accompanies the shipment, which is ALWAYS done in cargo aircraft. This is the gospel, according to the Department of Energy!

The gaps in this story are terrifying!!! How can something like this happen?

The MISSING parts of this story are far more crazy than what we already know...
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I'm so glad I have you or else I wouldn't
BE SCARED OUT OF MY EVERLOVIN' MIND!!!!!
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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
37. Air Combat Command stand-down on 9/14
How does this all factor into the Air Combat Command stand-down scheduled for 9/14?

Officially the stand-down is to allow review of safety procedures and protocol in the wake of this incident.

I'm putting on my tinfoil hat now. :tinfoilhat: Actually make that a lead-foil hat and a dosimeter.

If this nuke transport was not a mistake but something that was ordered, could this have been done to have a handy excuse for a stand-down?

It just makes me nervous because of the stand-down that took place on 9/11 before the attacks. Anybody know how similar in scope this 9/14 stand-down will be compared to the 9/11 stand-down?
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. This stand-down is larger than 9/11
It is supposed to include EVERY USAF asset. Details still not clear. Not sure if that includes overseas elements, but that makes no sense, and not much of this story does...

More on that tomorrow.

Also pursuing several other details that get weirder by the hour...
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low_phreaq Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Overseas elements not included according to this
"Planes in Iraq and Afghanistan and planes participating in air shows this weekend are not affected by the stand-down."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/townsquare/hampton...

Thanks for all your research on this!
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Good to know the airshows won't be affected!!! LOL!
"Mommy? What is that thing on the wing of the Thunderbird?"

"Duck and cover, Ricky!!!"

**************************************

Here's another creepy couple'a facts:

The weapons we are discussing (AGM-129/W-80 combo) are variable yield devices, from 5 to 150 KILO tons... (1000 lbs. of TNT)

The largest weapon in the US inventory (allegedly): 1.2 MEGA tons (MILLION lbs. of TNT)

Largest weapon ever detonated: The Tsar Bomba, Soviet Union: 50 MEGA TONS (FIFTY MILLION pounds of TNT) Reports say that if the device had been refitted with existing technology, the device could have yielded 100 megatons!!!

Ain't technology wonderful???

Ironically, the History Channel is showing a bit on nuclear weapon safety!!!



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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
59. 50 Mega Tons
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 06:16 PM by nebenaube
is 10 million pounds of TNT... edit nope that ain't right... it's 10,000,000,000 pounds of \tnt
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kurtyboy Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-10-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #42
63. Maybe 57MT, and INTENTIONALLY dampened
Edited on Mon Sep-10-07 09:06 AM by kurtyboy
From The Bomb: A Life by Gerard J. DeGroot, Harvard University Press, 2004

"The flash could be seen 1000 kilometers (600 mi.) away, despite heavy cloud cover. The mushroom cloud rose to sixty-four kilometers, and the atmospheric disturbance orbited the earth three times.

An observer recalled 'a remote, indistinct and heavy blow, as if the earth had been killed'. Those who later visited ground zero witnessed an eerie scene:

"The ground surface of the island has been levelled, swept and licked so that it looks like a skating rink. The same goes for the rocks. The snow has melted and and their sides and edges are shiny. There is not a trace of unevenness in the ground....Eveything in this area has been swept clean, scoured, melted, and blown away."

In clear air, the bomb would theoretically have been capable of inflicting third-degree burns to a person standing 100 kilometers distant. As it was, an observer over 250 kilometers away felt the thermal pulse. Again in theory, such a weapon could cause complete destruction of all structures within twenty-five kilometers, and severe damage to most construction within thirty-five kilometers. In fact, due to atmosperic focusing, damage was apparent far beyond the theoretical range. In villages hundreds of kilometers away, wooden houses were completely destroyed, and roofs were blown from stone structures." pp 253-4

...

"The bomb's yield (which might actually have been 57 megatons, but why quibble?) was ten times the combined total of all of th explosives used during the Second World War. That seems impressive, but in fact the device had been intentionally muted. The bomb itself was supposed to be a three stage device (Fission-fusion-fission) designed to yield 100 megatons, but in the tertiary stage the uranium was replaced with lead." p.254

...

"When Sakharov, who took part in the construction, was asked why the bomb was needed, he offered a wry smile and simply repeated, in briefer form, Krushchev's message: 'Let this device hang over the heads of the capitalists, like the sword of Damocles.'" p.258

I note that the bomb was delivered by a Soviet Tu-95 bomber.
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Venus Dog Donating Member (419 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. Why would they "announce" a stand-down?
There was no public announcement of a stand-down prior to 9/11. Could some be trying to shine the light of day on something?

This story does indeed get stranger by the day.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
41. the fact there is an 'official story' at all is suspicious to me
a 'security breach' of this magnitude would be something they wouldn't be telling the public about it seems to me. that it was reported by the military's own media is newsworthy as well. i suspect the true story was something far more sinister.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Greetings HuffleClaw!
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 12:03 AM by Rick Myers
The Military Times Media Group is owned by Gannett, the same folks that own USA Today and a ton of other papers.

Believe it or not, they are really quite independent, and this story was LEAKED to them by unnamed sources. What has developed is easy to consider tin-foil stuff, but it is REAL!

There will be more tomorrow. Need to verify some timeline info and confer with some 'professionals.'

I think you'd find the average military member trusts most of what the various 'Times' papers report...
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. so they are not simply a propaganda organ?
well, colour me impressed! come to think of it i seem to recall some rather candid views from those serving in iraq being published by the 'army times' some time ago.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. No, the Times Group are pretty well respected for accuracy
Someone contacted them to out this story, for some reason. I think they were sending a message, since these events would NEVER be discussed by the Pentgon in the light of day.

This is a real story.

You are correct about the Army Times, they have published several items VERY critical of the Invasion (I cannot call it a War)!!!

Are you in Ontario??? Noticed the 'Leafs' avatar!!!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
45. I'm getting one of these they're selling them at NewsMax

Kaito Emergency World Band Radio

FREE OFFER Get the "Kaito Emergency Radio" FREE, Click Here

Homeland Security has advised all Americans that every home needs an emergency radio, in the event of hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, electric power outages, and even terrorist attacks.

This Emergency World Band Radio is the same one used by our troops in Iraq



http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/cia_hayden_warning/200... -

CIA Director Hayden Warns of New al-Qaida Attacks

Friday, September 7, 2007 1:01 PM

Author: Stewart Stogel




In a rare public address CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden warned of new attacks by al Qaeda. (Getty)
NEW YORK -- In a rare public address CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden warned of new attacks by al-Qaida:


"Our analysts assess with high confidence that al-Qaida's central leadership is planning high-impact plots against the U.S. homeland."


Hayden's unusual public address was made at his request at the Council of Foreign Relations.


The newly minted CIA chief also took the unusual step of making his appearance in military uniform, though as CIA director he is not on active military assignment.

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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. That's actually a GREAT radio!!!
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 12:23 AM by Rick Myers
We will definately need shortwave to get news!!!

They are cheap and work regardless of power situation. I'd hope to find one with DIGITAL tuning, since shortwave is really tough to tune manually...

You can find that radio at a couple websites for under $40!!!
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
49. G'nite DU, and thanks for all the fish!
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 01:38 AM by Rick Myers
Peace.

on edit: Thanks to ALL the members of DU that have read, contributed, recommened, kicked, PM'ed, and just plain DID NOT IGNORE this story!!! Love you all!!!

See ya tomorrow with more news!

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
51. MAJOR GENERAL HENRY C. "HANK" MORROW
Edited on Sat Sep-08-07 08:11 AM by seemslikeadream
Maj. Gen. Henry C. "Hank" Morrow is

Commander, 1st Air Force,

and

Commander, Continental U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command
Region, Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla.

His command comprises four direct reporting units,
10 aligned Air National Guard units,
and a large number of active air defense alert sites--

including aircraft, air defense artillery, and up to 15,000 active duty, National Guard, Air Force Reserve and civilian personnel.

The 1st Air Force falls under Air Combat Command and is responsible for the operational readiness of assigned and attached U.S. Air Force forces.

As the Joint Force Air Component Commander for NORAD

AND

U.S. Northern Command,

the general develops contingency plans

and

conducts full-spectrum U.S. Air Force air

and

space operations

in CONUS, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, as well as over the maritime approaches to the United States.

EDUCATION
1977 Bachelor of Science degree in administrative management, Clemson University, S.C.
1984 Squadron Officer School, by correspondence
1984 Master of Aeronautical Science degree, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
1985 USAF Fighter Weapons Instructor School, Nellis AFB, Nev.
1993 Air Command and Staff College, by correspondence
1997 Air War College, by correspondence
2002 Director of Mobility Forces Course, Scott AFB, Ill.
2005 Combined Force Air Component Commander Course, Maxwell AFB, Ala.
2006 Space Operations Executive Course, National Security Space Institute, Colorado Springs, Colo.
2006 Joint Task Force Commander Course, Joint Warfighting Center, Suffolk, Va.
2006 Program for Senior Executives in National and International Security, John F. Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass.

ASSIGNMENTS
1. April 1978 - May 1979, student, undergraduate pilot training, Vance AFB, Okla.
2. May 1979 - July 1979, student, fighter lead-in training, Holloman AFB, N.M.
3. July 1979 - December 1979, student, F-111D upgrade training, Cannon AFB, N.M.
4. December 1979 - December 1981, F-111F instructor pilot, Royal Air Force Lakenheath, England
5. December 1981 - May 1982, student, F-16A upgrade training, MacDill AFB, Fla.
6. May 1982 - December 1984, instructor pilot, flight examiner and wing executive officer, 50th Tactical Fighter Wing, Hahn Air Base, West Germany
7. December 1984 - May 1985, student, USAF Weapons Instructor Course, Nellis AFB, Nev.
8. May 1985 - May 1988, instructor pilot and Chief of Weapons, 4th and 16th Tactical Fighter Squadrons; assistant Chief of Weapons, 388th Tactical Fighter Wing, Hill AFB, Utah
9. July 1988 - December 1989, instructor pilot and weapons and tactics officer, 182nd Tactical Fighter Squadron, Kelly AFB, Texas
10. December 1989 - July 1991, instructor pilot and weapons and tactics officer, 111th Fighter Squadron, Ellington Field, Texas
11. July 1991 - November 1991, instructor pilot and Chief of Quality Assurance, 147th Consolidated Aircraft Maintenance Squadron, Ellington Field, Texas
12. November 1991 - November 1992, instructor pilot and weapons and tactics officer, 182nd Tactical Fighter Squadron, Kelly AFB, Texas
13. November 1992 - July 1994, assistant flight commander, instructor pilot and weapons officer, 182nd Fighter Squadron, Kelly AFB, Texas
14. July 1994 - November 1995, Chief of Standardization and Evaluation, 149th Fighter Wing, Kelly AFB, Texas
15. November 1995 - April 1997, Commander, 182nd Fighter Squadron, Kelly AFB, Texas
16. April 1997 - October 1998, Commander, 149th Operations Group, Kelly AFB, Texas
17. October 1998 - June 1999, Director of Operations, Headquarters Texas Air National Guard, Camp Mabry, Texas
18. June 1999 - February 2000, Vice Commander, 147th Fighter Wing, Ellington Field, Texas
19. February 2000 - March 2002, Commander, 149th Fighter Wing, Lackland AFB, Texas
20. March 2002 - August 2003, Chief of Staff, Headquarters Kentucky ANG, Frankfort, Ky.
21. August 2003 - December 2003, Director, Combined Air Operations Center, U.S. Central Command Air Forces, Southwest Asia
22. November 2003 - April 2004, Assistant Adjutant General - Air; Commander, Kentucky ANG; and Director of Operations, Joint Force Headquarters-Kentucky, Frankfort
23. May 2004 - June 2004, interim Deputy Combined Forces Air Component Commander, CENTAF, Southwest Asia
24. July 2004 - August 2004, Vice Commander, 1st Air Force, and CONR Battle Commander, Tyndall AFB, Fla.
25. September 2004, Assistant Adjutant General - Air; Commander, Kentucky ANG; and Director of Operations, Joint Force Headquarters-Kentucky, Frankfort
26. October 2004 - October 2006, mobilization assistant to the Commander, NORAD, Peterson AFB, Colo.
27. November 2006 - present, Commander, 1st Air Force, and Commander, Continental U.S. North American Aerospace Defense Command Region, Tyndall AFB, Fla.

FLIGHT INFORMATION
Rating: Command pilot
Flight hours: More than 3,000 military hours and 7,500 civilian hours
Aircraft flown: T-37, T-38, F-111 and F-16

MAJOR AWARDS AND DECORATIONS
Defense Superior Service Medal
Legion of Merit
Defense Meritorious Service Medal with oak leaf cluster
Meritorious Service Medal
Air Medal
Air Force Commendation Medal with oak leaf cluster
Air Force Achievement Medal with two oak leaf clusters
Air Force Outstanding Unit Award with two oak leaf clusters
Air Force Organizational Excellence Award
Combat Readiness Medal with one silver and three bronze oak leaf clusters
National Defense Service Medal with bronze star
Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal
Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal
Global War on Terrorism Service Medal
Humanitarian Service Medal with bronze star
Air and Space Campaign Medal
Air Force Overseas Ribbon - Short
Air Force Overseas Ribbon - Long with oak leaf cluster
Air Force Expeditionary Service Ribbon with Gold Border
Air Force Longevity Service Award with four oak leaf clusters
Armed Forces Reserve Medal with "M" device
Kentucky Distinguished Service Medal
Louisiana Cross of Merit
Texas Lone Star Distinguished Service Medal with two oak leaf clusters
Texas Medal of Merit with two oak leaf clusters
Texas Adjutant Generals Individual Award with star
Texas Faithful Service Medal with cactus leaf cluster

EFFECTIVE DATES OF PROMOTION
Second Lieutenant Dec. 22, 1977
First Lieutenant May 14, 1980
Captain May 14, 1982
Major Sept. 26, 1991
Lieutenant Colonel Oct. 15, 1995
Colonel July 30, 1999
Brigadier General June 23, 2003
Major General July 29, 2005

there is a bit more that I left out of the middle of the page...


http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=9055


Is it true this is the guy in charge of looking for Fossett?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
53. It doesn't make sense
Upgrade, downgrade, decommissioned, the warheads should have passed though Pantex. I'm almost positive about this.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
55. About Those Nukes: What I Think May Very Well Happen
I posted this on another thread, but wanted to also put it here
on one of Rick's threads, as I've been following his series

This article has been posted at opednews:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_michael__0 ...

He's got part of it right but then thinks that this will cause the Iran attack to be scrubbed and Cheney to be pressured into resignation.

I'm Prone To Believe That Dr Salla's Premise Is Spot On, But His Conclusion Wishful Thinking

One thing Mr Cheney has proven to be ( other than pure evil) is determined.

I don't think this minor glitch will stop anything.

Remember, the first objective of his plan was successful regardless of exposure,

They wanted the nukes in Barksdale for staging. They are now in Barksdale.

My guess is that the domestic stand down on the 14th has a nefarious purpose also. (All domestic bombers and fighters ordered to stand down "for re-evaluation of nuke handling procedures")

Having all of our domestic fighters on stand down would be very convenient for a false flag attack in US. Not with nukes, but more like 9/11/01, only bigger.
Most likely attacking places that are progressive/liberal strongholds

We could well wake up on the 15th to a press conference announcing that we have attacked Iran in response.

Martial law could very well be declared at the very time we have a massive protest in DC,

leading to mass arrests of their most dedicated opposition when it is most concentrated.

I don't think anything has been stopped by this leak, after the 15th, it becomes quickly moot and forgotten.

Unfortunately, at this point, I don't see any way it could be stopped.

It's been nice knowing all of you folks.
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freedomfries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-08-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
56. full link here
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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
60. k&r n/t
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. K&R
Plus I've spread it to the beast that is myspace, my fellow patriots will pick it hopefully and spread it far and wide there as well.

Thanks for all the info, I've been reading your posts like crazy and clicking links trying to catch up on all the info.
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djp2 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-09-07 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
62. Diversion?
Hey! Look what we here what we found on these jets in Barksdale!!


What were they doing while we were looking the other way???
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