Concerned passenger on delayed flight contradicts airline's account

[MindPilot]

SAN DIEGO – The woman whose concerns about a group of Middle Eastern passengers apparently caused a Tuesday night flight from San Diego to Chicago to be aborted contradicted the airline's account of the incident in an interview Friday.

And six of the seven men involved in the incident have retained an attorney and want an apology.

snip

Leigh Robbins, 35, of Richmond, Va., said she got off American Airlines Flight 590 bound for Chicago Tuesday night rather than take the flight with seven Middle Eastern men onboard. She said their behavior made her nervous, and that she was scared for herself and her sons.

snip

The men worked for a defense contractor and had been training U.S. Marines.

snip

David Al Watan, 30, of Dearborn, Mich., said he was the leader of the group of seven men. Al Watan said he's an American citizen who came to this country from a refugee camp in Saudi Arabia in 1994 after the first Gulf war. He is from Nasiriyah, in southern Iraq, and fled the country in 1991. He said his mother was killed by Saddam Hussein's regime.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070831-1436-bn31airline.html

The airlines really are between a rock and a hard place. This woman did basically everything we've been told to do and she did it right. Had she actually prevented a hijacking, she would be a heroine, but now she's the goat.

So accepting that this fear of flying with middle eastern men is now a reality--however remote the possibility of actual occurrence--what could the airlines do to reassure passengers that the turban-wearing guy in the back is OK?

"Uhhh, this is the Captain. As many of you have noticed there are a few swarthy-looking males traveling with us this evening. We would like to assure you that these gentlemen have been thoroughly screened and present no threat. In fact of those guys is from Dee-troit, go Lions!"

[treestar]

1. If all the security procedures added since 911 have any effect

Then presumably, they are OK. This woman acts as if that hasn't happened. What about the no-fly list? Has she no confidence in that? Perhaps it contains only peace marchers and environmentalists?

The whole thing is a complete joke, too. As if anyone who looked any way could start marching toward the (presumably now locked) cockpit! As if passengers wouldn't immediately put up a fight. The only reason 911 worked at all was the surprise factor, even Flight 93 on that very day had passengers who knew the score.

If one thing has changed after 911, it's that airline passengers are hardly going to let a hijacker take control of the plane without a fight. Well, maybe if they don't "look middle eastern." Even that would be stupid, though.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Read the article. She's a BushBot.

'declined to discuss the war', code speak for 'I think George is doing a heckuva job'.

She's a bigoted fool who will see the bogeyman around every corner for the rest of her life.

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Report it accurately. She was talking with one of the Arabic men

in line. According to her he spoke English with no accent and told her he was in the Army. Then he asked her what she thought of the war in Iraq.

I would decline to discuss what I thought of the war in Iraq if a blue-eyed blond man who'd just identified himself as a soldier asked me.
And I was against this war before it began. But who needs an argument in an airport?

If I hadn't quit flying because of the shitty security and what they put the passengers through in the name of security, I wouldn't talk about the war in an airport, period.

[Midlodemocrat]

36. Well, we differ then. I would tell them that I supported the troops

and wanted them home.

Their heritage would have nothing to do with my answer.

And, my husband flies weekly. My brothers do as well. They discuss the war with other passengers all the time, so I really don't get your last point. Frequent fliers really don't have a hard time with security. The TSA agents tend to recognize them. My husband gets waved through because he has a defibrillator.

[DemBones DemBones]

47. My point was that many people would NOT tell a soldier they opposed the war

or even that they "supported the troops and wanted them home." Getting into an argument in an airport would be a bad idea.

It would be wrong to assume she's a Bushbot on that basis alone.

I'm glad your family has good experiences with airport security.

I witnessed a lot of nutty stuff BEFORE 9/11, before you had to remove your shoes, have your breasts groped, drink what was in your baby's bottle, whether it was formula or your own breast milk, be informed you were on the No Fly list, etc.

In Europe, security has always been good and not stupid. I would bet that it is still good and not stupid.

[yardwork]

31. I don't believe a word of her story, either.

I sincerely doubt that this happened the way she says. I think that she's lying to make the men look bad and justify her bigoted and outrageous behavior.

[rucky]

2. Simple.

If you're nervous about flying with someone, book another flight. Neurotic people shouldn't ruin it for everybody else.

[tanyev]

7. How easy is it to do that if you've got an economy ticket?

I'm not being snarky, I really don't know. Don't fly much.

[MindPilot]

13. It can be pretty darned expensive

sometimes hundreds more than your original ticket.

[rucky]

14. It's expensive. But if someone's that racist & paranoid...

they'll pay.

[Fierce]

3. What was the "scary" behavior?

I mean, beyond being Middle Eastern, of course.

[DemBones DemBones]

30. RTFA/ nt

[yardwork]

32. I don't believe her story, as related in the article. I think she's making stuff up.

Just another bigot trying to justify her behavior.

[DemBones DemBones]

34. None of us were there so we can't fairly judge

whether she overreacted.

[yardwork]

35. I am making an educated guess.

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Based on what education? nt

[KingFlorez]

I wonder what her FreeRepublic name is?

[Buzz Clik]

18. JeebusHatesA-rabbs

[MindPilot]

25. de-plane_de-plane n/t

[yardwork]

5. What if they had been African American and she refused to fly with them because they were black?

What if men started refusing to fly on the same flight as women, and vice versa? What if Christians started deplaning because they didn't want to fly on the same flight as people wearing Stars of David?

This is bigotry. The fact that the Bush administration has encouraged it doesn't make it right.

[MindPilot]

9. I didn't say it is right I said she did everything right

Clearly this woman is following what she believes are the rules and guidelines of how Americans are supposed to handle their part in the WoT. It's absolutely disgusting that this administration and the CorpMedia have brought us to this point, but this is now our reality and we have to deal.

[Buzz Clik]

20. Well, I guess I can buy that.

God knows BushCo never sleeps in their efforts to scare the shit out of the American public.

[yardwork]

26. I don't agree that she did anything right.

I guess we disagree about that.

I do agree with you that it's disgusting.

[hlthe2b]

6. Arabs don't wear turbans.... Sikhs do

Sikhs are not muslim; Sikhs are not Arab, but members of a religion that began in northern India in the 15th century.

Most Americans are so damned ignorant, it is embarrassing. It appalls me.

[MindPilot]

10. You can stow the snark.

I was writing from a general perspective...I almost spelled it "turbine" for effect.

[hlthe2b]

11. ....

Yes... you prove my point better than anything I could say in response.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hlthe2b]

17. Ignorance is behind much of the bigotry in this country

I can and will continue to fight against it.

[Tanuki]

19. Amen, and you were right to point out the bit about turbans. n/t

[Midlodemocrat]

21. I think what MindPilot is saying is that most Americans

WOULD mistake a Sikh for a Muslim because the WoT has so many of the sheeple terrified.

MP is far from a bigot and far from ignorant.

[MindPilot]

24. Thank you. n/t

[MindPilot]

23. No disagrement on that...

But *I* ain't the ignorant bigoted one!!

[yardwork]

28. I don't think that the poster was being snarky.

It is a simple fact that Sikh's wear turbans. Shortly after 9/11, a man in Texas murdered a Sikh, thinking that he was murdering an "arab." Sikhs are part of an Indian religion that is strictly pacifist.

[aquart]

27. Thank you.

It is ridiculous the way Sikhs have taken heat on this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

42. 'Turban' covers a variety of head coverings, including some Arab ones

eg

The power behind Iraq’s feared Mahdi Army militia, blamed for a bloodbath during a pilgrimage in the city of Karbala, is a young Shia cleric who wields more influence than most Iraqi politicians.



Known for the black turban of a “sayyid,” and a black beard to match, Moqtada Al Sadr was last year identified by the Pentagon as the biggest threat to stability in Iraq.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarticle.asp?section=newsmakers&xfile=data/newsmakers/2007/August/newsmakers_August31.xml

turban noun 1 a type of headdress formed by wrapping a long cloth sash around the head or a cap and which is worn especially by Muslim and Sikh men. 2 a woman's hat that looks similar to this. turbaned adj.
ETYMOLOGY: 16c: probably a Turkish pronunciation of dulband, the Persian name for this kind of headdress.

Chambers Dictionary

While the Sikh style of turban is a bit different to those from further west, some confusion, especially with both being called 'turbans', is understandable.

[hlthe2b]

44. Rare exceptions exist. Keffiyeh or Ghutra is head dress of Arabs

Do some occasionally wear it similarly as a turban?.. yes.



But turbans are the official religious head cover of Sikhs.

Similarly, some Arabs wear a white skull cap underneath that could make it confused with a yamika.

Blurring this distinction by those who know no difference, has resulted in Sikhs and many others to be caught up in anti-Arab anti-Muslim anti-"other" hysteria--sometimes with tragic results, as has been pointed out by others on this thread. Few Arabs wear turbans so that when bigoted, ignorant individuals go after those specifically wearing turbans, they are very likely to be targeting Sikhs, who are not Arab, not Muslim and, in fact most likely to have originated or have descended from those who originated from India, where the majority of Sikhs continue to live.


The keffiyeh (Arabic: كوفية, kūfīyä; plural: كوفيات, kūfīyāt) is also known as a shmagh, shemagh or yashmag ( شماغ, šmāġ, a ghutra ( غترة, ġuträ) or a hatta ( حطّة, ḥaṭṭä), and is a traditional headdress of Arab men, made of a square of cloth ("scarf"), usually cotton, folded and wrapped in various styles around the head. It is commonly found in arid climate areas to provide protection from direct sun exposure, as well as for occasional use in protecting the mouth and eyes from blown dust and sand.

Local variations exist. Many Palestinian keffiyeh are a mix of cotton and wool, which lets them dry quickly and keep the wearer's head warm. The keffiyeh is usually folded in half, into a triangle, and the fold is worn across the forehead. Often, the keffiyeh is held in place by a rope circlet, called an agal (Arabic: عقال, ʿiqāl). Sometimes a skullcap is worn underneath the keffiyeh, and, in the past, it has also been wrapped around the rim of the fez. The keffiyeh is almost always of white cotton cloth, but many have a checkered pattern in red or black stitched into them. The plain, white keffiyeh is most popular in the Gulf states, almost excluding any other style in Kuwait and Bahrain. The black-and-white keffiyeh is most popular in the Levant. The red-and-white keffiyeh is worn throughout these regions, but is most strongly associated with Jordan, where is it known as shmagh mhadab. The Jordan keffiyeh has cotton-made decorative strings on the sides. It is believed that the bigger those strings the more value it has and the higher a person's status is. It has been used by Bedouins through out the centuries and was used as a symbol for honor and tribal identification.

The keffiyeh, especially the all-white version, can also be called a ghutra ( غترة, ġuträ), particularly in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain (where the skullcap is confusingly called keffiyeh), but is also known in some areas a shmagh ( شماغ, šmāġor a hatta ( حطّة, ḥaṭṭä).

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. But it's clear that various turbans are worn in the Middle East

MindPilot never said that all Arabs wear turbans (in fact, they didn't mention 'Arabs' at all - they said "middle eastern men"), so I'm not sure why you brought up the keffiyeh at such length.

Several different styles of turban

[hlthe2b]

50. Calling out all who wear "turbans"

as potential terrorists, given that the overwhelming majority of those who wear turbans are sikhs, --that is why. Sikhs are being targeted in this ridiculous paranoid campaign to target anyone who might be of Middle Eastern extraction, sometimes with tragic results.

[MindPilot]

51. I didn't call out anyone. I asked a question from a perspective other than my own.

And not being an expert on religious headgear doesn't make one bigoted or ignorant. Settle the fuck down.

[hlthe2b]

54. Unnecessary defensiveness....

Responses to another poster were not directed to you. (But, apparently you gained from the discussion. I'm glad)

[Tanuki]

8. I hope the airline sues this b*tch for the financial losses caused by her bigotry

and I hope she finds herself on the no-fly list the next time she tries to go somewhere. There is no excuse for this.

[Buzz Clik]

15. Holy crapoli! Flipping out because "The dark men scared me" is doing the right thing?

The airlines really are between a rock and a hard place. This woman did basically everything we've been told to do and she did it right. Had she actually prevented a hijacking, she would be a heroine, but now she's the goat.

Paranoid racist goat. Yep.

[MindPilot]

16. Please read post nine. n/t

[AlCzervik]

22. i better call my sister and tell her the next time she and her Iranian husband

and children should only speak english when they fly.

[DemBones DemBones]

33. I'm really sick of DUers not reading articles BEFORE commenting

on them.

The woman was so "paranoid" and "racist" that she and her kids were talking with one of the Arab men while they were in line together.

He told her he was in the Army and asked her what she thought of the war in Iraq.
She declined to answer.

I'd decline to answer if a blue-eyed blond man who'd just identified himself as a soldier asked what I thought of the war.

Given how crazy security is, I wouldn't mention the war in an airport.

If I were an Arab man and spoke both Arabic and English, I also wouldn't sit down with six other Arab men and speak Arabic in an airport.

[Orangeone]

37. Not speaking Arabic

Won't help. The lady would of found some other reason to find them suspicious. Catering to someone with irrational fears only makes it worse...

[Midlodemocrat]

38. Did you miss the part when the guy said her son was a spoiled American boy?

Maybe she was enacting some payback.

And, if I spoke Arabic or Farsi or any other language that would lead others to conclude I was Arabic, I'd speak it any damned place I chose.

[AlCzervik]

39. are you serious?

thats hilarious.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

48. So Arabs can't sit next to their Arab friends on airplanes?

Or speak their native language? Wow. Great to know. Good thing we're spreading our freedoms all over.

[Selatius]

40. I don't see evidence at all to indicate what she did was right at all.

There is no corroborative evidence to back up her claim about suspicious behavior.

In this case, I am apt to conclude she gave into her ignorance.

[DemGa]

41. I wonder how many people would feel as this woman did

(to some, or any degree), if you are completely honest. It is hard to be perfect in this regard.

Because she did see what she thought was suspicious behavior, though her imagination ran away with her.

Also, she did express that she would like to apologize to these men.

[FormerOstrich]

43. I do not believe this woman....

the entire matter is OUTRAGEOUS.

Before the flight she alerted security, spoke to a police person on the phone, three officers came and talked to her personally. ALL BEFORE THE FLIGHT!

She says.....she was on the plane for less than 5 minutes. During that 5 minutes, one of the men...went to the restroom and made clunking noises. She claims she was seated in the last row of the plane.

The man then came out and stood directly behind her. She saw that he was looking at the people on the plane, turning from left to right and right to left and “glaring.”

“He looked so mean, the way he was looking at everyone, it was very frightening, like something out of a movie,” she said.

She said she was alarmed by having the man stand behind her, and by the fact that his traveling companions were scattered throughout the plane.

What kind of plane is it where you can stand BEHIND the last row (unless of course you are in the restroom). Was she observing all his facial expressions in a mirror? Or did she have her anti-terrorist 3-D glasses on and observe him through the bathroom wall?

She left the plane. Now, I notice there is much ado about how the airline claimed she caused them to taxi back to the airport. That is probably true regardless if she was on the plane before it pushed back. SHE WAS THE SECURITY PROBLEM. She probably had checked luggage. She left the plane. Maybe the attendants didn't even know. Checked luggage without passenger? A passenger acting EXTREMELY suspicious (well paranoid anyway).

I think she made up the "Spoiled American" part for good riddance.

The AIRLINE should charge HER. Think how she is raising those poor kids. btw...this was a REDYE flight....I usually look fairly unkempt on REDYES.

People like her SCARE me!!! Good thing she wasn't packin' for personal protection or she might have shot them all dead.

[BeHereNow]

45. Gee, I wonder how she will feel about all the Mexican truckers?

Poor woman, she'll be on her cell phone night and day
as she drives the highways.
Alerting on the suspicious looking brown people.
BHN

[entanglement]

52. "She had never before flown with her sons without her husband"

[bemildred]

53. Yeah, she should have stuck with being supervised when out and about. nt

[Malikshah]

55. Leigh Robbins....Eunice Stone.... Separated at Birth?

What is it with Virginia and Georgia?

For those who might have forgotten-- Eunice Stone was the lovely eavesdropping woman who helped create the mass hysteria with the Medical Students down here in Florida.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/13/alligator.alley/


Go back in time, folks-- TV shows had regular references to Anthrax, etc. The bigotry and hysteria don't seem to have died down among some.

BTW--Ms Gibbons SHOULD be talking about the war-- openly and all the frikkin time. Every last one of us should be, no matter where we are. Only then will people wake up from their Vick-Spears induced comas.

[MUSTANG_2004]

56. It sounds like a difficult situation

One of the first things that you learn in a personal safety class is to go with your instincts, rather than letting what is socially correct guide your actions. If she felt that she was reading signals that the men were dangerous, the correct thing for her to do was remedy the situation by getting off the plane.