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Where the hell do people think gay people met in 1952???

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:49 PM
Original message
Where the hell do people think gay people met in 1952???
Remember, this is an American society which tells gays and lesbians that they are not allowed to form permanent unions, than castigates them for being promiscuous.

A society which, if it allowed a gay bar at all during the last century, made it a hidden secret-knock hole-in-the-wall that was likely to be raided by the cops (see "Stonewall riots") OR firebombed by some Christian terrorist.

So people adapted. There is no big mystery to this. Unless you expected gay men to remain celibate or "change" (see Haggard, etc...) there had to be someplace you could meet people. So whilst "normal" horny young heterosexual men could assemble their bedpost notches at some public bart, this is what was left for gay men. Cruising in restrooms. Glamorous, ain't it? You can see why people would "choose that lifestyle"!!!11

So what we have here with Craig is a quaint vestige of those times. Normal, well-adjusted gay men have gone on to more savory ways of meeting people (internet, etc.), while aging Republican senators who make rules against gay rights still know nothing other then what they have been furtively practicing for 40 years. So, kindly stop debating "restroom sex" and acting like an orgy is happening behind every toilet door and "what about the children" and posting polls whether it's acceptable, or accusing gay people of "defending this practice" here at DU. This ain't our problem anymore. We've moved on. But now you know the history and give it a rest already. :hi:
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you! n/t
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 03:52 PM by Kingshakabobo
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Craig should have come to my town, there's G&L bars and restaurants...
ah'plenty :thumbsup:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. There were gay and lesbian bars in the town I spent my high school
years in LONG before Stonewall----in the SOUTH!

There were places to go. The patrons just had to "act straight" for the vice squad cops who were looking for easy busts. As humiliating as it was to put on an act, those places existed for gays and lesbians to meet.



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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. But if you were observed going into a known gay bar, people
might "get ideas" about you. On the other hand, if you were observed going into a bathroom, so what?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
87. As I recall, nobody much gave a rip
although going in one's police uniform would ensure a frosty reception.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. You were lucky where you lived then.
When my father came out in the 80's, in an northeastern city, he lost much of his business. Lots of people "gave a rip."
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Minnesota Airport?
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 03:56 PM by Danieljay
Oh, no. Sorry, that was self proclaimed heterosexuals having man sex.

Sorry.
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. You dah man!
:thumbsup:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. It ain't about gays
It's about Craig... the lying asshole hypocrit. Who happens to be a US Senator. Give it a rest.
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Danieljay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. You're right. I think its more about sexual compulsivity and addiction.
Althought Craig IS an effing hypocrit.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
DoBotherMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
85. So do I
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. Barney Frank says it IS about Craig being gay
and being in denial.

What Craig did is not uncommon at all for repressed gay men in his generation.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
62. Barney Frank
Can kiss my ass... please, don't tell him I said that....

While it may not be uncommon, it is abhorrent... to do such a thing in a public restroom. And a person who is supposed to be honorable should be able to control hisself in such situations. That is what it is about.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #62
80. I agree it's gross, uncouth, rude, and I don't want it in my bathroom either.
On the other hand, Bluebear's post correctly points out some background as to why these behaviors developed -- and to why they persist even today. Sen. Craig, in his mind -- and in the state of Idaho -- is still living in 1952.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. Ya know what?
That's too damn bad. I've had to change some of the things I used to do, and if I feel any sorrow at all it is that the damned asshole hypocrit Craig couldn't control himself and keep it out of a public bathroom which we agree is digusting.

1952 is a long way off and there are millions of things changed since then. Adapting to change is a part of growing up and I'm damn tired of these adult children not growing up.

No friggin excuses. It is a sickness that can't be excused.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have met plenty of men his generation who are NOT closet cases
It has not been the mid 1950 for several decades. His age might be an explanation, but it is no excuse.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. So yuo took from my post that I am "excusing" him?
Please reconsider.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. You? No. Others on this board? Most definitely.
I have seen several posts along the lines of, "He's old so of course he cruises T-rooms for sex" as if it was a habit of elderly gay men. I didn't mean to kick you when my knee jerked. :hi:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Some decades ago, it WAS common among men in his generation
but I have made that point only in arguing against calling men who still do that "perverts," "deviants," and other slurs -- slurs which have been used against ALL gays for ages.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. Of course. Thankfully, many have been able to come out. And you're right.
His age doesn't excuse what he did, but it does explain it.

Something to keep in mind about him though -- he's in a situation that has made it even harder than for people like my dad, who came out in the 80's. First, he was locked into a career where being "out" was virtually impossible. (My father, who was self-employed, lost much of his business after he came out. He never recovered financially.) Two, he lives in Idaho, which is at least 15 - 20 years behind the rest of the country in terms of cultural issues.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Repubs can't help living in the past.
that's when things were the bestest!

:sarcasm:

I lurve B-Bear. :-)
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'd love nothing better than to give it a rest...
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 04:18 PM by Juniperx
But SOME people won't quit posting OP's about it!

:hi:

I disagree with coming down on people who don't want to see that kind of thing in public places though. I don't like to see, or have to explain to a five-year-old, what those scantily clad woman are doing on the street corner waving at all the men who pass by... nor have I ever allowed my young sons to go into public restrooms alone until they were old enough to defend themselves. Not against gays... against pervs. All pervs are not gay and all gays are not pervs. I didn't want anyone, male or female, to "come onto" my boys until they were ready for such things. No sense in confusing them needlessly.

I remember hearing my gay bosses tell tales of seducing young sailors on shore leave in the quaint port city where I was born, and where I worked for them. They had been together for over 20 years at that point, and the "seductions" happened when they were very young... I'd have to guess it was back in the late 60's. I heard a lot about the "old ways" and had a lot of good laughs about it. The sad part was, when I was first hired, they told me (in very serious tones) that I would learn a lot of personal things about them while working for them out of their offices in their home... and I was to keep it all to myself. That was kind of scary... so when I found out they were (gulp) gay, and laughed my ass off... was that it? No skeletons? Just gay? LOL!!! Well, they had very high-end clientele in both of their businesses, so I can understand how it might damper business if some backward homophobic should happen to find out. There was never a reason to bring it up anyway.

That being said, I brought my kids with me to work on days they were off school, and they had a great time getting to know the bosses. I never told the kids they were gay either. So when I had to explain their buddies Mack and Mike dying of AIDS, it was something I chose to bring up. My kids loved those men, and they were devastated at their passing (within six months of each other). I thought it was a good time to explain the whole deal... in the hope that the compassion they felt for the two men would help when the kids met up with the inevitable homophobic. Whenever the subject of gay people comes up, they think back to those two men who meant so much to them. Its a good thing, I think.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. What a sad/sweet story.
I know some older gay men (I'm gay) who told me horror stories about the "old days" and worrying about being arrested or found out at work. They were all from Chicago but they became some of the original "settlers" of Saugatuck Michigan which is now one of the "gay meccas" of the midwest. They showed me the old no-tell-motel where they would "trick" - always fearful of the door being kicked in.

One of them is/was (haven't seen them in a few years)general council for a large oil company and the other one is/was a senior partner in one of the nations largest law firms. To this day, they still attend company functions with their "beard." "The beard" is an old friend of the gang's - it's quite comical to hear them talk about borrowing "the beard" as if she had to be reserved (of course, she is in on these conversations).

It was quite a trip to meet these people and hear their horror stories - especially as a "brand new gay" fresh out of the wrapper (It was ten years ago when we met).

I don't know why I'm posting this. Bluebear's post reminded me of 'the old days" we've all heard about.
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Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm not sure everyone has moved on
There are how to guides all over the internet and so many are doing this public bathroom thing that police departments need to do stings. I suspect that cruising the mens-room have more to do with a sick kind of excitement than being gay or bi because you are right things have moved on and there are plenty of legal ways for gays to meet-up.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. Right, it isn't 1952 any more.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. well maybe it should be...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
68. In much of Idaho it might as well be.
Especially if you're a Senator.

My father came out in the 80's -- which was great for him overall. But he -- who was self-employed -- lost much of his business, and he never recovered financially.

The Senator couldn't have retained his job and been "out." So in his mind he was still living in 1952.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. I Have Been Thinking About This
There are evolutionary explanations for all kinds of behavior...

I don't have as much problem so much with the public sex as I do with the fact that the senator arrogated to himself the right to evaluate, check out, peruse, scope, a series of men through the cracks in doors in closed bathroom stalls until he found a suitable sexual partner...This was a gross violation of those men's rights...

Who the fuck does Craig think he is?

A king...
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks bluebear for trying to offer some information in good faith
I'm sorry the uneducable crazies came to call.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I should have known better.
"They met at work, at weddings!"

Right. At weddings. :rofl:
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Of course they did!
In 1952, gay men were only allowed to be interior designers, fashion mavens, florists, and wedding planners. Didn't you know that??
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. I know - that's hysterical.
:D :roflmao:
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. That was a terrible time for gay and lesbian people.
Not that now is no great shakes...

But I couldn't imagine the hiding, the furtiveness of those times.

Well you tried, guy. I do appreciate the effort...emphasis on effort...of educating some of the people around here.

:thumbsup:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. You're The Gentleman Who Started The
You're the gentleman who started the thread " I Don't Have Sex In Public Restrooms" and you were rightfully applauded...

I understand the historical explanation of Craig's behavior but you could have added other useful inmformation such as these assignations were usually consummated at venues where detection was unlikely...The likelihood of detection at a public restroom in a heavily travelled airport greatly increases the likelihood of detection...

And as I indicated Senator Craig arrogated to himself the right to check out every person in the restroom through a crack in a stall bathroom door before finding a suitable sexual partner...He thus violated the rights of every other person in that restroom...

That's just wrong...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
69. I was hoping that had been a joke. It certainly was funny. n/t
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Nothing new around here
Maybe we should retreat to our gay bathrooms for some shagging.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Gay bathrooms? Are those nicer than breeder bathrooms?
For some reason, my brain wants to make a joke about gay bathrooms being in gay bathhouses, but I'm resisting.

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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
45. Do you actually think the opposite of 'gay' is 'breeder'? nt.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
76. shrug
I could go with fag hag.

Straight?

Mundane?
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
50. I don't know
But someone seems to think we need our own bathrooms so we can "be ourselves". :shrug:
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
70. Hi Buffy!
:hi:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. Hello
:hi:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Wonderful, wonderful OP, Bluebear
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. The one thing your post doesn't take into consideration
Is the way these prohibitions created and distributed desires. Public sex became part of gay culture for the reasons you enumerated very articulately. They remain part of the culture 1) because for many people, the prohibitions remain, though they are no longer juridical but cultural (i.e., the closeted gay man who has no place to "take" these desires) and 2) because the ways gay men were forced to meet became itself a desire, a way they WANTED to meet. That is to say, if sexuality is connected to a set of specific practices for some time, those practices themselves become charged with a sexual content (i.e., there's no real - or natural - reason that the BED should be associated with sex; it became associated through cultural practices, and the bed itself became charged with sexual content). So, all kinds of "public" sex (very little of which is actually "public" in the sense of VISIBLE, of course) were forced on gay men by virtue of law and power, and then became desired by gay men because they those were places that sex happened. It's not enough to cite the prohibition, and then note that it is gone. The prohibition or norms actually produces desires, in gay culture as in straight culture (the motel, the backseat of the car, the beach, the bedroom).

Because of these two elements, public sex begins to play a political role in gay culture. Everyone is by now, I hope, aware of the long and fierce debates in gay culture about relative assimilation to the "norm" of the heterosexual relationship. That is, large portions of gay culture want to leave behind the non-normative practices that came out of the norms imposed on gays and that constituted challenges to those norms, from public sex to leather daddies. People holding this position believe that the road to equality is paved on assimilation to heterosexual normativity, even up to and including the heteronormative nuclear family: marriage, Johnny has Two Daddies. Another group in gay culture refuses precisely those norms, arguing that gay culture should assert itself in its differences from heteronormativity, not conform to it (Michael Warner's excellent book The Trouble with Normal can be considered one of the rallying cries of this movement).

Of course, this is the conundrum of ANY minority group: should we assimilate or assert our difference. Assimilation seems to have more political sway (for the very obvious reason that heteronormativity is the holder of power in our society, just as white privilege would suggest that black culture operate more like white culture because white culture still dominates). Assertion of difference appear more radical, but I think it is the ethical deficiency of those in the dominant culture that creates this appearance. What we've learned on these boards in the last few days is the outright fear of a gay planet, so to speak, homophobia writ large in the ceaseless call for assimilation. I don't think you can find a better example of the insidious nature of heteronormativity than the debates taking place on these supposedly progressive boards over the last few days.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Thanks for that....
:thumbsup:

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Respectfully
The choice to assimilate or not is a choice all of us should be free to make as long as our refusal to assimilate doesn't infringe on the rights of others...

By Senator Craig or any person of any gender or orientation going into a restroom , peering through the cracks in the stalls of closed bathrooms doors and evaluating all the occupants until he has found a suitable sexual partner , he or she has trampled on the rights of all the men or women who have a reasoable expectation of privacy...

If folks of any gender, orientation, or number want to congregate in bath houses, sex clubs, or parties to have sex that is their right but they don't have the right to appropriate public space that belongs to all of us for that activity...
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #37
61. If we had ever been allowed to assimilate...
...i.e., enjoy all the same rights and privileges as heterosexuals*, there wouldn't be men, especially of a certain age, who felt it necessary to indulge their desires in the confines of a public toilet.

What Craig did was flat-out wrong, disgusting, and illegal. Assuming he doesn't simply have a voyeuristic/exhibitionistic fetish that compels him to risk sex in public restrooms (which is another, separate issue altogether), eliminating the reason he most likely did what he did (internalized homophobia) would eliminate the vast majority of Larry Craigs.

Sadly, it is a generational process. The Larry Craigs will exist until they die off. Even if he someday faces the fact that he's gay, or bi, or whatever his orientation, he will never, ever accept it.

Just remember that anonymous toilet sex is seldom anyone's preference; when someone is willing to reduce himself to such measures, you're looking at a very sad, lonely, self-loathing man.


* Assimilation, mind you, does not mean forfeiting our autonomy or our culture, which -- despite the apparent opinion of many that our culture boils down to nothing but risky, promiscuous sex -- is as rich, and vast, and ancient as any other. And it "doesn't infringe on the rights of others."
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. Throwing pearls before swine
seriously. Great post.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. I Read It...
Assimilation or rejection...It's not unique to gay folks...African Americans, Jews, and other non-majorities have to ask themselves what it means to be a Jew, an African American, etcetera in a land where they aren't the dominant culture...

The question is when does one's refusal to assimilate infringe on the rights of others...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Look! Right there in the original post
"Of course, this is the conundrum of ANY minority group...," etc.

The other question is whether the "violation" assumes the place of the norm precisely because the practices are non-normative.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. Here's My Problem
Tell me if I'm off base...

I don't have a problem with folks having public sex as long as that place is designated for such activities... In this instance you have a restroom that caters to the general public and for most of them they just want to evacuate and get out... By Mr. Craig looking through the cracks in closed bathroom stalls at folks presumably peeing and pooping, until he found a suitable sexual partner he has violated the rights of people who have no desire to be part of his sexual scenario...That's my primary problem with his behavior...

It also depends on the venue...I might expect that behavior at an adult bookstore but not at a restroom in a heavily traveled airport...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. The vast majority of this stuff takes place out of sight and mind
For structural reasons. That is to say, this kind of "public sex" is highly coded and designed precisely to avoid contact with the unwilling. The notion that children are constantly in danger of being exposed to it is a farce, and a symptom of what I'll call the gay libel (after the Jewish blood libel - the Jews were accused of harming children as well, you see), since these activities generally take place far from anywhere that children could or would reasonably go. Are there exceptions? Of course. What's utterly suspect in my estimation is the elevation of the more "violating" kind of activity to the level of a norm, as if anonymous bathroom sex is taking place in the local Chuck E Cheese regularly. It's nonsense. Moreover, the advances are usually just that: advances. People are free to reject them, as women have always done. The gay bathroom come on is generally much milder than the douchebag who starts grinding a woman at a dance club, and yet women have developed ways short of calling the police or assaulting the advancer to deal with that. That men completely freak out over advances much milder is another symptom of homophobia.

Let me be clear: I am not talking about the specifics in this case. But I should add that the "peeping" aspect of it is fairly easily dealt with by a simple "Hey fuckwad. There's someone in here." That the majority of straight DU wails and moans as if it is tantamount to rape itself says all you need to know about the current state of homophobia.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. Interesting Discussion
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 06:15 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
Many issues here...

When I was thirteen I was in a DeLand,Florida Belk Lindsey restroom and this older, bald guy comes over to me as I am urinating and says "do you want to feel the juices"... I was freaked and got out of there fast... I have also been in a restoom at a upcale department store in Altamonte Springs, Florida and saw two men having sex in a stall...I didn't play cop... I just got out of there....I'm not suggesting my experience is universal or else I would have seen it a lot more in my years of using public restrooms...

Also I'm not insensitive to the cultural explanation... I just think as a people we need to respect one another and one another's boundaries...





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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. yup
Anyone who thinks anonymous sex in airport bathrooms is wrong is a swine.

Way to go, you critical thinker, you!
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
71. Whoa! This post is way too informed and well-researched
for these boards lately.

The black and white thinkers are going to have their brains explode.
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
74. Damn Your Brain Is Fine n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. As I said in another post that got locked before
I could reply to you, my gay cousin used to meet guys in bathrooms. He knew all the bathrooms to cruise too in our city. This was back in the fifties. When I turned twenty one, he then took me to gay bars to meet guys. The reason he took me was because I drank and he didn't so I was a sort of his ticket into the gay scene. He didn't need to cruise bathrooms anymore.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. My only objection to Craig's behavior is that he has been SANCTIMONIOUS
I don't care where he has or has not been meeting guys.

It's just that he has preached about how E-VILE it is to be gay. While he himself could have voted for laws that would have benefitted gays, he choose to pretend that this pro-gay legislation was not something that he should be behind (only slight pun intented)

And I think that I am going to adopt Patty Duke's attitude last night when she was speaking out about Depression. And said that Craig is a human being and deserving of concern.

Guys who meet guys in bathroom stalls probably are suffering from a few Psychological ailments, including depression.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
34. Right on
and thanks for stressing that younger gay people now have vastly different ways of meeting each other: school clubs, nightclubs, the internet, etc.

The bathroom cruising thing is a sad relic from a bygone era, unfortunately still populated with closet cases. I got hammered for posting that societal homophobia created the Larry Craigs of the world, and it's the one issue the MSM doesn't want to address in all this. But, I still think it's true.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
35. yes, for sure.... What, though, is the signficance of 1952?
Just curious why that year in particular was chosen to highlight?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. It was a very good year...
When I was just 17. . .
I went to the john. . .
I went to the john and my intentions weren't vague. . .
My name was Larry Craig.
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mikelgb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
39. these thread generate the best automatic ads!
:blush:
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks for making this so clear. nt.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
42. In the middle?
:shrug:
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
46. Princeton?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
48. At Fleet Week, just like my parents did, when the only English
my mom could manage with aplomb was "Hamburger".

:rofl:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Yay! Fleet Week!!
:bounce:
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
52. Cool post Bluebear
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 05:20 PM by nam78_two
:hi: Did you see the post on TalkingPoints Memo on the same subject? I don't think I have the link anymore, but it was an interesting read.

Edit: Found the link:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/051809.php

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DrunkenMaster Donating Member (582 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
55. so they have sex in bathrooms?
Sorry, I don't buy it. Anyway, it ain't the fucking 50's anymore.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I think you're right. We've regressed 'way further back than the 50s. nt
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #55
72. Have you been in Idaho lately?
Edited on Fri Aug-31-07 06:06 PM by pnwmom
By Jiminy, oh gosh, they're not into the 60's yet.

It's the land that time forgot.

(Great place for fishing, though.)
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
57. Au contraire my friend ...
If you believe state sanctioning makes a union true, you haven't got a clue. Promiscuity is a personal choice and responsibility.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. Yes, some gay people did hook up in bathrooms in those days but they don't have to now
and Sen. Craig is one of the people who wants to bring back those bad old days when two people had to meet in places like men's room or at the YMCA just to get together. He also would probably want to bring back the back ally abortion with using hangers too.
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stirlingsliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
60. The Are Still Internet Sites That List
There are still internet sites that list places where people who are cruising for sex can go to meet others.

I do not agree with your implication that gay men who are "normal" (whatever the hell THAT means!) or "well-adjusted" would not resort to such "unsavory" ways of meeting people.

There are a goodly number of well-adjusted, and I would guess, quite "normal" gay men who enjoy cruising for sex.

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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
63. But what did they do in 1951?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
64. I think this was a very good post, Bluebear.
It certainly speaks to my father's experience (who came out in the 80's, fortunately.) Too few people here have any knowledge of history, apparently.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
66. that post is way too lucid and rational for DU
who do you think you are making sense like that?
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
67. Larry Craig was 7 years old in 1952
Just thought I would point that out. :) He's a lot younger than he looks.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #67
82. It's all that good clean living. NT
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
75. Churches, schools, liquor stores
The usual kind of places people meet.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
78. y'all're so silly. the gays were all wiped out with sodom and gamorrah
so there were no gay people in the '50s.

it wasn't until bill clinton was elected that the gay epidemic returned.

don't you libruls no anything?

:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
:sarcasm:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
81. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
83. Absolutely true, Bluebear.
Too bad Craig didn't move on also.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
84. Good writing, thank you Bluebear.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
89. This post slanders all gay men who are not compelled to
hang out in public restrooms.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-31-07 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
91. locking
Thread has become a flamefest.
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