The gay references regarding Larry Craig is so wrong

[graywarrior]

He's a sick, demented pervert. He'd blow a horse if he could squeeze into a "stall" with it. Why does the media continue to throw "gayness" into this type of perversion? Yes I understand how he voted against gay marriage and all that, but somehow the press keeps aligning gay with mentally defective republican liars and perverts with NO morals.

[rusty charly]

1. His stance was wide from leg to leg...

The Toilet Queen called Larry Craig.

[Mythsaje]

2. His mental defect is Republicanism, not being gay. n/t

[polichick]

4. But a certain kind of Republicanism...

Religious (or at least righteous) repression is a big part of it.

[valerief]

3. Because the MSM is an arm of the corporation-owned government, and

the government has an anti-gay policy.

[AlinPA]

5. The issue is not whether he is gay or not. It is his hypocrisy.

[graywarrior]

10. Exactly.

[liberalmuse]

15. And the Republicans still don't get it.

Senator Craig was busted on rather flimsy evidence (I'm not saying he's innocent). The liberal men I know would have just told the guy 'No thanks' and moved on without a second thought. However, it appears that some males were offended at the rather subversive overtures in the men's room at the airport, so they reported it to security, who then busted Sen. Craig. It is always ironic and deliciously delightful when those same persons who propagate homophobia and intolerance get caught in their own nets. The gays I know can easily find a sexual partner without having to resort to hand/foot signals in a restroom, while repressed and highly hypocritical individuals see this as their only recourse. It is sad, and perhaps fitting that Senator Craig was busted doing something many gays would turn up their noses to.

[Joe Fields]

17. Not quite. Hypocrisy abounds on a daily basis and goes unreported.

His gayness IS a big part of the media feeding frenzy, and they (the media) delight in making it a perverted defective trait.

[JerseygirlCT]

36. Hypocrisy and having broken the law and pled guilty to it. nt

[liberalmuse]

6. Suppression is an evil thing.

Sexuality is the most natural thing in the world. We are human beings, and capable of reason (hopefully). We do not need to be slaves to instinct, and therefore we can control most of our urges. However, it is wrong to suppress our most primal instinct. Having lived amongst a dominant and sexually repressed religious/political group for many years, I know that sexual suppression can act like a pressure cooker. You can only keep the lid on for so long, and when it blows, it makes a horrible mess. The instance of sexual perversion amongst religious/right wing political groups is higher than average. I'm talking incest, beastiality and trolling for a blow job in a public restroom. Whether Sen. Craig is gay or straight has nothing to do with it. He needed an outlet and chose an inappropriate way to express it.

[whoneedstickets]

7. Presuming he's been with his wife, he's NOT gay, he's Bi..

nm

[Ian David]

18. Presuming he ENJOYED being with his wife, he's not gay, he's bi.

If he constantly had to fantasize about being with men while fucking his wife, he's Gay.

If he fantasized consistently fantasized about women while being blown by men in public restrooms, then he's Bi-Desperate.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bi-desperate


If his "taste includes both snails and oysters," then he's Bisexual.






See:

Memorable quotes for Spartacus (1960)

Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you eat oysters?
Antoninus: When I have them, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you eat snails?
Antoninus: No, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Do you consider the eating of oysters to be moral and the eating of snails to be immoral?
Antoninus: No, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: Of course not. It is all a matter of taste, isn't it?
Antoninus: Yes, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: And taste is not the same as appetite, and therefore not a question of morals.
Antoninus: It could be argued so, master.
Marcus Licinius Crassus: My robe, Antoninus. My taste includes both snails and oysters.

More:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054331/quotes

[pnwmom]

32. Many gay men are physically capable of heterosexual relations,

especially in their younger days.

It's just not their preferred orientation. As they get older, though, it becomes much harder to "perform" with the opposite sex.

Craig has three children, but he adopted them all after he married his wife.

[Olney Blue]

44. His website says he has children and grandchildren.

http://craig.senate.gov/keyportal.cfm

[pnwmom]

47. His children are all adopted.

He adopted her children when he married his wife.

But lots of gay men have fathered children, that doesn't make them straight or even bi. My own father fathered five -- then my parents divorced and my father was with a male partner for twenty years. I know, through the web, many adult children of gays and lesbians -- the majority of whom grew up in what appeared to be straight families.

[Olney Blue]

49. I look forward to the day when people don't feel the need to hide.

Thanks for your post, pnwmom.

[pnwmom]

52. I do, too.

Believe me, that closet gets awfully small when a spouse and children are stuck in it, too.

And you're welcome, Olney Blue.

[burythehatchet]

8. the press went hard after the Vitter affair

but then the story just petered out*.



*This sexual double entendre has been certified to be non-homophobic, non-heterophobic, and non-phobic of all variations therein.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. Well, the hypocrisy bothers me far more than the bathroom stuff.

I don't really understand it, and it sounds like it's signals, so it's not really coercive, I suppose. Except for the staring through the stall, which seems like what the criminal charge could be about.

As has become PAINFULLY evident, when it comes to the Repubs, the more the scream about the evils of some kind of sexual behavior, it's exactly what they're doing. Or, even what they really, really want to do.

Mark Foley, protector of children against sexual predators.

Larry Craig, defender of heterosexual marriages against gays.

Rick Santorum, turtles, I'm not sure. :shrug:

Craig sure does sound like a morally corrupt person. MKJ

on edit, oops, too much bold.

[msongs]

11. then again, maybe the cop is lying? nt

[pnwmom]

34. And his other accusers are lying, too? But he pleaded guilty anyway?

The Idaho Statesman spent several months interviewing people who were claiming homosexual encounters with him. The most reliable witness, with a Republican background, can be heard in an audiotaped interview.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/1264

[stirlingsliver]

12. "Pervert"??

I always look somewhat askance when I see words like "pervert" or "perversion" being tossed around.

Those are words that some people use to express their own personal disgust with the sexual tastes of other people.

And those words are usually quite judgmental.

I do think that getting off on non-consentual sex of any sort is a perversion.

Other than that, another person's taste in sex -- even though it might personally disgust me -- I do not consider to be perverse.

Nor do I consider people who engage in more exotic forms of sex to be perverts.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. It's like Victorian England in here these days

"Pervert," they say.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

[Democrats_win]

13. The two "trolling-for-sex" republicans is beyond bizarre.

[Terran]

81. Actually, it's not

This should give you an idea how common this practice is.

It's possible that Democratic men, being a generally more well-adjusted group overall, engage in this sort of behavior less often than Republicans. I don't think that's out of the question.

[Ian David]

14. Larry Craig doesn't look gay. He looks like a serial killer.

What are the odds he was actually PRETENDING to solicit sex, but was REALLY interested in luring gay men away to be killed?

Like that guy in Florida, who offered $20 and a blow-job to go to a more secluded location with him.

[stirlingsliver]

21. How Does A Person "Look Gay"??

Maybe you meant your words to be sarcastic.

But if not, what do you mean when you say that Larry Craig doesn't "look gay"???

[Ian David]

24. What I meant was that he looks more like a cold-blooded killer than someone interested in gay sex.

When someone is outed (or comes out) as gay, there are certain stereotyping photos the media pulls out of their "gay file" when they write about it.

Remember this one?



It's the stereotype that the media created to tell us, "this is what gay people look like," and then, when the subject comes up, they find photos to reinforce that.

Larry Craig looks like they pulled photos out of their "serial killer file."

When I look at the photos of Larry Craig, I don't see someone who looks interested in affection or sex from anyone-- male or female. I see a predator intent on killing.

[orleans]

26. gay people are "vulcans"? is that what you're saying? OH MY GOD!

sorry--couldn't help it. (no i don't remember this photo. is that the guy from star trek? is he gay? if the answer to my last two questions is yes then i get your point)

[Ian David]

28. Takei played Sulu, who was human. n/t

[MilesColtrane]

68. Not JUST human...

...but FABULOUS!!

[Kingshakabobo]

84. If you didn't know Sulu was gay, then you must not have seen his response to .....

......NBA player Tim Hardaway's homophobic remarks.

This is a must see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7v_UCsdzc

[AlCzervik]

16. it is totally the hypocrisy, same thing with Vitter. "family values" guys that cheat on their wives

on one day and then claim gay marriage is a threat to traditional marriage.

[Ian David]

20. You never hear about Larry Fylnt getting caught soliciting sex in bathrooms.

It is ALWAYS the conservatives.

[orleans]

27. rachel maddow was on olbermann tonight and she rattled off a list

of these repuke hypocrites so fucking fast my head was spinning. i couldn't keep up.

[AlCzervik]

29. it's just mid boggling. Hey if one more republican senator has another sex scandal

we'll have the elusive hat trick.

Oh please let it be Orrin Hatch.

[orleans]

31. oh my god! orrin hatch! (just thinking of him sitting in congress is

disgusting enough--we'd all be puking our guts out if he was in a little scandal!)

[foreigncorrespondent]

19. It's not just the press that does it. (N/T)

[sendero]

22. He's not gay...

... he's buy.

[graywarrior]

23. He's bye bye, that's for sure.

[Ian David]

25. Diaperman hasn't given up HIS seat, yet. n/t

[Duer 157099]

30. I agree about that

It's a sexual fetish he has, and imho has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

It's like saying rape is about sex -- the same sort of misconception of the act with the motivation.

[goodhue]

33. He is in deep denial

I'm not certain he is necessarily a sick pervert. I imagine it is pretty difficult to handle his sexual attraction to men given his apparently sincere and adamant conviction that he is not gay and never has been. Life in the Down Low can be difficult.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. They do this every single time. As if being gay in itself were some

sort of crime.

Craig is a raving hypocrite, and a lawmaker who apparently broke the law. (And I'm thinking this can't really be called an act of civil disobediance, you know?)

He's a creep.

But he's not a creep because he's gay. That may be the only non-creepy thing about him!

[pnwmom]

39. But it is his fear of being gay, and the social consequences of it -- both

in politics and at home -- that his driven him to this behavior.

At one time in most of the country it was virtually impossible to have an open, committed relationship with a partner, and this sort of behavior was the predominant outlet for gay men's sexuality. The AIDS epidemic caused the gay community to openly examine the issue of anonymous sex and how this was hurting them.

[Toasterlad]

37. Um...No. He's Gay.

There are gay men all across the country who engage in exactly the kind of behavior that got Craig busted. Whether you think they're all perverts is beside the point. The fact is, before the gay rights movement gained any ground, before it was acceptable ANYWHERE in America to be gay, gay men had to resort to all sorts of complicated - and often seedy - rituals to meet each other. From what I understand of Craig's case, he was hitting on the officer, who was playing along. It's not exactly the pervert homo accosting the innocent straight man scenario that many are portraying it to be. The cop knew exactly what was going on, and he played Craig like a fish.

Please don't misunderstand: I have no sympathy for Craig. He's a hypocritical piece of shit, and he deserves what he gets. However, I have a problem with people exaggerating the "great gay menace" in public restrooms, which has been going on here all freakin' day. Besides the "mating rituals" common to men of Craig's generation, there's also the fact that some people - gay AND straight - get off on doing it in public; the danger factor is a rush. That doesn't mean that men everywhere are in danger of being propositioned every time they head into a men's room. Gay men who play that game are much more careful than you'd believe from the police reports that you see of these republican asswipes (who, as I said, are being played by the cops: a truly disinterested straight guy would have most likely been discarded before he even knew he was being hit on.)

Blast Craig all you want, but blast him for being a hypocrite. If you want to label his behavior perverted, you're entitled to your own opinion. But don't try to say "he's not gay, he's a pervert". At the very least, in your eyes, he's a gay pervert. Is sex in public restrooms gross? Many people, including me, would say yes. Is it illegal? Certainly. Is it wrong? I personally don't think any consensual sex between adults is wrong. As for the appropriateness of the public setting, how many of you have actually WITNESSED guys going at it a public restroom? Nobody knows the meaning of discretion like a gay man of a certain age. They might like the thrill, but they like their lives more.

[pnwmom]

40. Very good post, Toasterlad.

I think some people here need a history lesson -- the advent of AIDS changed a lot of minds and behaviors in the gay community. And they don't understand that even now there is a controversy in the community between those who advocate a more "straight" approach to sexual morality, and those who believe in a more free-wheeling approach.

[Toasterlad]

42. Thank You.

And I agree...there's a lot of (understandable) ignorance of gay history - and gay culture - on DU and in society at large. And I'm all too aware of the movement that many gay people and our straight allies want to put forth, that gay people are "just like you and me". It comforting and non-threatening and not altogether true. Gay relationships are different from straight relationships by their very nature: it's a same-sex pairing instead of an opposite sex pairing. Those who seek to accentuate the similarites and whitewash the differences are doing a disservice to gay and straight culture alike, I think. The point shouldn't be that we're all the same, the point should be that, despite our differences, we're all entitled to the same things: life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. THAT'S what America's all about.

For those of you quietly humming "the Star-Spangled Banner" in the background, I thank you, and you can stop now.

[pnwmom]

43. Whitewash is the word that was coming to my mind, too.

If you refuse to pretend that being gay is exactly like being straight, then you're at risk of being accused of being homophobic, but I think you've said it very well: "The point shouldn't be that we're all the same, the point should be that, despite our differences, we're all entitled to the same things: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

These people who say that he's not gay, he's a pervert -- would they also say the same thing about a man and a woman having sex in a bathroom? "They're not straight -- they're perverts!" Of course not. They'd just think they were a hetero couple having sleezy sex.

I'm also uncomfortable with all this use of the word "pervert." No one seems to remember that at one time in the not so distant past, all gays were subject to the slur. And freepers often still use the word to refer to gays in general. With all its hateful baggage, we should be very careful when using it, if ever, when applied to consensual adult sex.

I'd be willing to use the term with regard to pedophilia or bestiality. But people having sex in bathrooms, gay or straight? It's not perverted, really. It's just gross!

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. There is indeed a controversy

Every DUer should read Michael Warner's The Trouble With Normal.

You'll accept, I presume, that the controversy hasn't exactly been settled? :-)

[pnwmom]

53. Yes, I do accept that.

And it puts me at risk of being accused of homophobia, though I am the daughter of a gay dad. As Toasterlad points out above, a lot of people, even DUers, seem to predicate their acceptance of gays on the idea that they behave just like straights. What kind of acceptance is that? I'll love you but only if you're just like me?

I absolutely support the right of gays to marry and form lifelong committed partnerships. But I recognize that being put in a hetero-style relationship is the last thing many of them want to do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

56. Oh, I totally agree with you

There are two kinds of homophobia. The first kind is obvious: hating gays tout court. The second kind is more insidious: loving only those gays who "act straight" (whatever that means). That's homophobia, too.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Fear of a Gay Planet

It's not exactly the pervert homo accosting the innocent straight man scenario that many are portraying it to be.

Indeed. The speed at which people move from "bathroom" to "assault" is remarkable. The speed at which they then shift to "children" is depressing in the extreme. DU homophobia is fucking rampant.

Please don't misunderstand: I have no sympathy for Craig. He's a hypocritical piece of shit, and he deserves what he gets. However, I have a problem with people exaggerating the "great gay menace" in public restrooms, which has been going on here all freakin' day. Besides the "mating rituals" common to men of Craig's generation, there's also the fact that some people - gay AND straight - get off on doing it in public; the danger factor is a rush.

The former prohibitions which, as another poster articulately put it, forced some forms of sexuality to the very (physical) and metaphorical margins of society actually PRODUCES desire for those margins. Duh. Anyone with sense gets this. The sheltered homophobes on DU pretend not to understand.

That doesn't mean that men everywhere are in danger of being propositioned every time they head into a men's room. Gay men who play that game are much more careful than you'd believe from the police reports that you see of these republican asswipes

Another fairly obvious concept that DUers pretend not to get.

At the very least, in your eyes, he's a gay pervert.

You'll never get them to admit this, though it is manifestly the case.

Nobody knows the meaning of discretion like a gay man of a certain age. They might like the thrill, but they like their lives more.

From the uproar here, you'd think this sort of thing is practiced randomly in the bathrooms of the local Chuck E. Cheese, rather than in densely coded secluded locations designated precisely because they are outside the range and under the radar of people who would KILL gay men for propositioning them. Fucking murder them. Duers, again, pretend not to understand this, blabbering about the rule of law, as if the very existence of such practices doesn't indict their fucking social contract and their sex laws completely. I am ashamed of these boards today.

[sandnsea]

64. Sex in Public Bathrooms is Perverted

"The danger factor is a rush."

That would be true of any individual engaged in public sex - gay, straight, partners, groups, or singles.

Is it wrong?

Not relevant. It's illegal.

Why?

Because society has decided there are limits to where people can engage in various behaviors, from bicycling to skateboarding to drinking to smoking to... sex.

I can't believe people are defending bathroom sex.

[pnwmom]

38. Most likely he is gay -- and feeling that he must hide in the closet

is what has driven him into this kind of behavior.

When Governor McGreevey of N.J. (a Dem) announced that he was a Gay American, no one questioned his bona fides -- even though he's openly acknowledged to anonymous sex at highway reststops, adult bookstores, etc. It's how closeted gays pretend to themselves that they aren't gay -- they bracket it off into a separate, occasional part of their lives.

[graywarrior]

41. Whether on not he's gay, homosexuality should not be linked with his crime.

He broke the law, he lied about it, tried to cover it up. That's the issue. Maybe pervert is too emotional a word to use, but his being bi, gay or straight shouldn't matter. He's a rat.

[pnwmom]

45. He's the one that made the link. He could have merely said

that he didn't do what he was accused of. (And he should have pleaded "not guilty."

Instead, he defended himself by saying "I'm not gay."

And I think that pervert is a very loaded word for us to use, since it has a long history of being used as a slur against gays in general.

[sandnsea]

46. Agreed - He's a Sexual Deviant

Yet he's more worried that people think he's gay.

[pnwmom]

54. That's because the word "gay" and "sexual deviant" are synonyms to him

as they are to many people in his generation, and to many of the younger Freepers.

The word "deviant" has often been thrown at gays in general. We should be careful about using it here.

[sandnsea]

61. It's time to differentiate the two

And the time to do it is now by confronting this guy. The only way to make homophobes realize just how ridiculous they are is to get them to realize they're more upset about homosexuality than Sex in a Public Bathroom.

[pnwmom]

62. Too late. The word has already been linked for decades

with gays in general -- both in the past, and by many today.

Why offend gays by insisting on using that word to refer to bathroom sex? It's sleezy, it's gross, whether done by a hetero or straight couple. We don't have to use a word like "pervert" or "deviant" that has a long history of being used against all gays.

[sandnsea]

63. Yeah, no matter who does it, it's perverted

So why not point it out instead of connecting it to gays? You're the one doing that. You're the one offending gays by implying bathroom sex has something to do with homosexuality, rather than just plain old perverted individuals.

[pnwmom]

70. I am not implying that bathroom sex has something to do with

homosexuality.

But I am stating that the man is obviously gay. And having bathroom sex doesn't make him "not gay" -- any more than saying a hetero couple is not straight because they had bathroom sex.

Sen. Craig himself has stated that he isn't gay. He's the one that made the link. But when you use the word "pervert" to describe a gay man who has spent decades in the closet -- however sleezy his activities may appear to you -- you are stirring up long memories of bigotry, whether you are aware of it or not. For decades, most gay men in the U.S. were involved in this kind of furtive sex. Since the onset of AIDS, there is less anonymous, promiscuous sex, but there is still support for it among a significant portion of the gay community. Are you saying they are all perverts? Are homosexuals okay only if they ape the conventional mores of heterosexuals?

I don't think many DUers would be happy about your calling Gov. McGreevey a pervert, even though he admitted to the behavior himself. When the term is applied to a Democrat, the slur seems to be more obvious.

[sandnsea]

71. bathroom sex is perverted

whoever is having it, end of story. Yes, McGreevey is a pervert if he is still scouting around bathrooms for sex. Not because of who he is having sex with, but because of where he is having sex at.

All the excuses made for why Craig was in a bathroom are ridiculous. Afraid of being seen going into a gay bar, but not afraid of getting caught in a bathroom?? He doesn't have the number of a discreet prostitution service??

I don't know why you're defending him. There isn't any defense. He perpetuated a myth that gay sex is necessarily something sordid and tawdry, he indicated that being gay was worse than soliciting sex in public, young boys will be lured to bathrooms and create another generation of hidden sexual orientation, the harm goes on and on.

Stop. He's Wrong. Don't allow him to connect this behavior to homosexual relationships. They are no more the same than a married man who always has to have a fling on the side.

[pnwmom]

72. I'm not defending his hypocrisy, or his bad votes on social issues.

But I am telling you that when you use the word "pervert" to describe men such as he, you run the risk of hurting gay DUers, many of whom are subjected to that term every day by Freepers.

And when you use the word "pervert" to describe men of his generation who entered adulthood in a time when MOST gay men found their only expression of their sexuality in such furtive encounters, then you are casting a slur on most gay men of his generation. Some were able to change their behavior. Others, who live in less open places like Idaho, and are still caught up living a lie, have not.

Craig is as much a victim of the myth that you speak of as a perpetuator. He grew up in a world where just to be gay meant you were a pervert, a criminal. So did my father, who, like most gays back then, engaged in similar behavior. Fortunately, my father was eventually able to break away and lived with a partner for twenty years. But I'm not going to condemn him or Gov. McGreevey or anyone else in his position with names like "pervert."

[sandnsea]

74. What about pedophile priests

who have sex with teen-age boys. Are they perverts? Should I worry about offending another gay man by calling pedophile priests perverts?? I don't think so.

Is the depiction of young males not a common gay stereotypical theme? Should I shut up about adult men seducing teen-age males, whether it's common or not?

Nope. Sorry. Bathroom sex is perverted and disrespectful of the rest of society. It's one of the reasons gays have such a difficult time being accepted.

Many people do things they aren't proud of when they're young. I would hope no happily adjusted homosexual would look back fondly on his days of bathroom sex. I would hope he would be goddamned angry that society drove him to that and stand up that much more strongly for gay rights in order to put an end to it.

Larry Craig is not a frightened, confused 20 year old. He was at the friggin' AIRPORT for chrissake. This was his behavior of choice, nobody is forced to this anymore. N.O.B.O.D.Y. Move. Change jobs. Grow Up.

Pervert is the exact word for sex in a bathroom. The gay community needs to accept it and quit defending it.

[pnwmom]

75. I don't equate pedophilia, which is a perversion,

with sleezy sex in a bathroom between consenting adults.

Craig is a damaged, tormented 62 year old, but no one has accused him of pedophilia.

[sandnsea]

77. Oh my god, consenting adults in a bathroom???

You've lost it on this one.

[BlooInBloo]

55. It is *possible* to be both you know, anti-stereotyping aside.

[pnwmom]

57. That is true.

Would the same people that say "Craig's not gay, he's a pervert" say of a heterosexual toilet-mating --"they're not straight, they're perverts"?

On the other hand, I'm uncomfortable with using the term "pervert" to refer to adult consensual sex, however sleezy. It's a word that was long used as a slur against gays in general, and Freepers still use it in that way.

[Cetacea]

58. K & R

[brentspeak]

59. Anyone looking for sex in a bathroom is a total pervert and sicko

[pnwmom]

73. Funny, I didn't hear a lot of DUers say that Gov. McGreevey

was a pervert when he acknowledged decades of anonymous sex in places like highway rest stops and adult bookstores.

When the word is used against Repubs, it appears to be so much easier to ignore the fact that it is routinely used by Freepers as a slur against gays in general -- and that a generation ago, words like "pervert" and "deviant" were basically synonymous with "queer" and "fag."

[brentspeak]

78. What democraticunderground are you referring to?

The democraticunderground I've been reading for the past few years castigated McGreevy mercilessly -- and justifiably -- over his Israeli aide sex scandal. Also, there was registered disgust here when word of what was in his book was made known. But his book wasn't a huge, front-page topic, like the Craig story is, mostly because McGreevey had already left politics long before; Craig is still in office.

I think you're just playing fast-and-loose with the facts surrounding DU and McGreevy. Why, I don't know.

In any case, it doesn't change the obvious fact that someone who looks for sex in a bathroom is a perv.

[pnwmom]

82. So you're saying that McGreevey was a perv, too?

When he was cruising similar places for sex?

I think the only reason his book didn't get much play here was because he was a Democrat and therefore it isn't nearly as much fun to castigate him. But if he had been a former Republican who had written the same book, DU would have been all over it.

The main point I'm making is that when we use words like "pervert" and "deviant" to describe people like Craig, we risk hurting millions of other gay men in Craig's generation, whose only expression of their orientation was in similar furtive arenas. Are we going to say that all gay men who have cruised in such places are perverts? If so, then we're condemning most of the gay men of his age (the vast majority of whom were closeted), and many closeted men of McGreevey's age.

[mbee]

60. Worse than that I saw a news report where that guy Romney

compared him with Bill Clinton. They think as long as they bash Bill Clinton they can do whatever they want. Sick puppies!

[JI7]

65. he is gay, just as that Diaper guy is straight

what it's about is their hypocrisy.

and i think it's just funny.

[HardRocker05]

66. the gay part is not the problem (at least for non-bigots); the bathroom sex-trolling is. nt

[Major Hogwash]

69. The gay part is a huge problem for Idahoans - they hate gays in Idaho.

Not only did they pass laws banning same sex marriage a few years ago, they made it a part of the state Constitution!!
Over 70% of the people that live here and voted last year, voted for the referendum to include the ban in the Constitution!

They hate gays here, it's a huge problem for gays in Idaho.

Idaho has a large Mormon population and they have a heavy influence on the state government, and the religious bigots here preached against same sex marriage for years in order to get the laws on the books to ban it.

That's why it is so important for us to get hypocrites like Larry out of office.

[HardRocker05]

67. yep; if he molested a boy he'd be "gay;" if he molested a girl he'd be a child molester. nt

[Terran]

76. If he's a pervert

then so are *millions* of American men, gay and straight, who do the same thing every day.

He's not perverted, he's horny and stupid and irresponsible and can't control himself.

[brentspeak]

79. "Millions" of American men try to pick someone up in bathrooms every day????

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Terran]

80. In secluded public places, yes

And ok, not *every* day. I'm meant to say that it's an every-day occurrence. As George Michael opined in court, it's part of gay culture, but it's also part of male culture, period. Most women have no idea their husbands and boyfriends ever do this, but it's extremely common.


Edit: where did I get this idea? I'm gay, and I've been around. I know, trust me.

[graywarrior]

83. Well, Craig's wife looked stunned and medicated.

[BornagainDUer]

85. Oh Bullshit!! Craig just shows that gays aren't all good. Which is something

many gays, particularly the gay repug symps here at DU, do not want to here.