Are you not telling the truth, or not?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

Poll question: Are you not telling the truth, or not?

This is not about whether you think you are telling the truth or not, but whether you actually are or not, at the moment.

[MLFerrell]

1. Well, this is pretty fucking dumb...

[A-Schwarzenegger]

4. Not pretty fucking dumb enough, apparently?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. No, it's just pretty fucking dumb enough.

I'm telling the truth.

[zippy890]

2. whaat?

er huh?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

5. It brought me calm

and I felt to share it.

[porphyrian]

3. If I asked you the same question, which would you not answer? - n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

If I told you, would you ask?

[porphyrian]

11. I would ask you three things, but not in the order you answer. - n/t

[JustJoe]

15. In that case, no, how dare you, and yes.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

16. Hey, who asked you?

:)

[porphyrian]

21. Wait, are you not answering or asking questions? - n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

25. No, I am. Aren't I doing nothing but?

[porphyrian]

29. Yes, sometimes you are not asking questions, sometimes not. - n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. My favorite part is in between the answering and the asking.

[porphyrian]

34. Well, you're just selfish. - n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. Just selfish enough to keep myself humble.

[porphyrian]

42. "Humility is the worst form of conceit." - Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Diamonds Are Forever -n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

45. "Humility in others is good for my appetite." --Oscar Schwarzenegger

[porphyrian]

47. "Humidity is a poor excuse to gargle." - no one -n/t

[porphyrian]

19. Is that why I hate horses? - n/t

[A-Schwarzenegger]

41. Do you hate all horses, or just some?

[porphyrian]

43. Are you accusing me of being horsist? - n/t

[lvx35]

6. Ooh, I love these. What was the one about the land where everybody either always tells the truth or

always lies, and you come to a fork in the road and you can only ask one question to find the castle? You have to figure out which question to ask that will get to the castle whether the person is lying or not.

[ComerPerro]

7. Ahh yes. "What way would he tell me to go?"

[lvx35]

8. Oh yeah, that's it. What way would you tell me to go if I asked where the castle is?

I remember now. Thanks.

[ComerPerro]

12. well, you gotta ask each what the other would say

you will get the same answer from the liar and the honest person.

[lvx35]

14. Oh yeah, that's a different solution. But it works.

The form of the riddle I had only has one person at the crossroads.

[ComerPerro]

23. If there is only one person, it won't work the same way

[lvx35]

26. Yeah, you just ask the one person "what they would say" to make the liar double negate. nt

[ComerPerro]

i suppose, if they are a very dedicated liar.

But asking "what would you say if" is the basically the same as asking directly. So odds are someone who is a dedicated liar is going to tell you the lie anyway. Doubtful they would go through the process of "well, I would say right, which is a lie, but I have to lie about that, so it I should have to say left."

But this is exactly why riddles like that are just pointless mental masturbation.

[lvx35]

38. Its from first order logic, used in making chips and programming and such.

From comp-sci. The point is that in logic double negation is equivalent to not being negated at all. In reality, liars often tell the truth. In logic a liar is just a negated truth teller.

[ComerPerro]

40. problem is humans aren't programmed

[lvx35]

44. Yep. Sadly the moral of the story is if you have two negation chips, you can take em both out.

If Boolean logic dicated human behaviour, computers would have taken over the world long ago.

[ComerPerro]

48. Skynet was supposed to solve the human menace years ago. WTF is taking so long?

[karlrschneider]

10. I vaguely recall that sort of riddle, but it isn't possible to determine with just one question.

...

[lvx35]

13. No it is, see the answer above. Its a compound question.

Say the castle is to the left. Then the truthteller will say so, the liar will say its to the right. So you ask:
"Which way would you tell me the castle is if I asked?" The truthteller will still say the left, but the liar will be forced to lie about his lie that its to the right, and will also tell you its to the left, so you get the right answer either way.

[karlrschneider]

17. But you said we can only ask one question. Now you have changed the rules.

That is 2 questions.

[lvx35]

22. Its one sentence.

"Which way would you tell me to go if you asked you where the castle is?"

Still one question. I think that's what makes it tricky though, somehow our minds interpret 'one question' to mean something smaller than it really is.

[karlrschneider]

28. Look, I don't want to fight with you, but here is a paste from your post:

Edit: never mind, I overlooked something. Mea Culpa. I failed to note the 'liar' is -compelled- to lie according to the rules. Sorry. :-)

[lvx35]

32. It is ONE question. fuggetaboutit. nt

[karlrschneider]

35. I did, finally, 'get' it. See my previous reply.

:-)

[lvx35]

46. Yeah, I should have said it was from a logic textbook.

A liar in logic is just a negated truth teller, in the real world they are something else entirely.

[karlrschneider]

49. I thought about applying it to Boolean Algebra but didn't wanna get that involved...

;-)

[Katherine Brengle]

18. That's fantastic.

[Toasterlad]

20. If a Sticky Does Not Get Posted, How Loud a Non-Uproar Does It Create?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

24. Am I not telling the truth, or not. Hmmmm. *LOL*

:rofl:

Okay.

You are wasted. Right?

It's okay.

Are you NOT telling the truth, or not?

*grin*

[Rex]

27. Well since you will never know, this poll is meaningless.

Or is it?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

30. Yes, but only out of context.

[Rex]

37. Are you telling the truth?

Or am I lying? Or neither? Or both?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[A-Schwarzenegger]

36. Was there a question in there.