E. J. Dionne on why the Democrats caved.

[madfloridian]

Nothing I am reading makes me feel any better about this issue. It does not make sense...why it was bought to vote..why so many voted yes. None of it makes sense.

Why the Democrats Caved

Shortly before noon last Saturday, about 20 House Democrats huddled in Speaker Nancy Pelosi's office to decide what to do about a surveillance bill that had been dumped on them by the Senate before it left town.

Many of the Democrats were furious. They believed they had negotiated in good faith with Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence. They sought to give the Bush administration the authority it needed to intercept communications involving foreign nationals in terrorism investigations while preserving some oversight.

But the administration held out for granting McConnell and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales more power while seriously circumscribing the role of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. The Senate's Democratic leadership, lacking the votes to pass a measure more to the House's liking, gave the administration what it wanted. At one point, according to participants in the Pelosi meeting, the passionate discussion veered toward the idea of standing up to the administration -- even at the risk of handing President Bush a chance to bash Democrats on "national security," as is his wont.

..."Several members from swing districts -- including Reps. Heath Shuler of North Carolina and Patrick J. Murphy of Pennsylvania -- expressed openness to having Congress stay in town to fight if important constitutional issues were at stake.

But the moment passed. Even some very liberal Democrats worried about the political costs of blocking action before the summer recess. That Saturday night, the House sent the president a bill that, as a disgusted Rep. David Wu (D-Ore.) put it, with just a touch of exaggeration, "makes Alberto Gonzalez the sheriff, the judge and the jury."

They knew exactly what they were voting for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. The only thing that makes sense is what most folks do not want

to face, they are in it

I hate to say it, but who benefits, and ocam's razor

[AndyTiedye]

5. Why Would They Be Complicit in their Own Defeat Next Year

They gave the regime a license to Watergate all the Democratic campaigns next year.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3438520

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. The answer is staring you in the face

they are complicit because we are now an empire

They know that...

Yep, they also were most likely given an offer they cannot refuse, but this country has crossed the rubicon and right now you have two major parties

No, not the ones you're thinking off

the Populist and we are taking it in the chin

And the Corporatist.

We have members of both parties as members of the corporatist... and now what we have is pure theater.

[Raksha]

33. You are so right...the Populist Party and the Corporatist Party.

I've come to the same conclusion myself over the past few days, and it's depressing as all hell. But hard as it is to accept, it's the reality.

[AndyTiedye]

36. That Explanation Leaves Out More than It Explains

It resumes that religious freedom does not matter,
that reproductive freedom does not matter,
that it is OK to bring back the Crusades and the Inquisition…

[Octafish]

55. So let's toss the turds out with the repuke trash.

So what do we have to do to take back the Democratic Party?
Toss out 40 or so of them who voted for this treasonous, unconstutional monstrosity?
I'd say there are a whole lot more imperialists who need to go into the night.
Citizen Grand Juries might do the trick, in order to bring their criminality to the light of day.
And certainly, Bush and his Just Us Department will do all possible to slap any area of investigation -- from drug running to war mongering to illegal spying -- with a national security label to keep it under wraps.
No matter. Congress -- even one cobbled by corruption -- can investigate ANY government malfeasance.
Those who don't believe We the People are in charge are traitors.
All the guilty -- no matter the affiliation or label -- should be in Leavenworth

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. How many are really paying attention? Maybe that is what the Democratic Leaders are banking on.

:shrug: Either that or they are all stupid which I don't buy. Either they are scared to death of bushco or they don't think we are paying attention. Why else are too believe?

[AndyTiedye]

35. Scared to Death Seems the Most Likely

This wasn't triangulation. It was surrender.

[AndyTiedye]

2. Only One Explanation. Bush Made Them An Offer They Couldn't Refuse

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3438520

[Blaze Diem]

3. Anyone have a list of how our Dems voted..sorry

for asking, but I have missed out on much of this discussion. So disheartened I actually couldn't "touch" this subject until now..all I want to know at this point is who sold us down the fucking creek on this one.

thanks
Blaze

[jgraz]

6. house.gov and senate.gov

They have all the roll call votes online.

[Blaze Diem]

19. thanks..

watching my 6 month old granddaughter, I just truely fear for her future.

I feel quite strongly that my taxes are certainly not being represented, as to the wishes of an America majority.

Guess that was one of the first parts of our Constitution to be trashed..

CANNOT BELIEVE THEY DID THIS TO OUR COUNTRY.

[madfloridian]

8. Here are the lists with links to their websites...

The Blue Dogs were the culprits and 6 New Democrats joined them.

The Fisa Vote

[DefenseLawyer]

4. Don't they ever actually talk to PEOPLE?

As opposed to consultants and pollsters and each other? Hello? Is this thing on?

[SeattleGirl]

7. I love it that Pelosi got over 200,000 emails about it.

And I hope they ALL get an earful when they are on vacation in their districts.

[WillyT]

21. Me Too... That's My August Recess Prayer...

That they all go home, and get one hell of an ass chewing before returning.

They best be afraid of their base; more than the rePukes.

:mad:

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. 200,000? Wow That's WONDERFUL!

[AndyTiedye]

39. Yes, But They LISTEN to Bush** Because He Has a Gun to Their Heads

[DefenseLawyer]

47. A guy at 28% has blanks in his gun

He's a fucking lame duck.

[AndyTiedye]

50. But After They MIHOP Again, The Polls Will Have Him at 90%

[TwilightGardener]

10. What a pathetic group of whipped, cringing, ball-licking dogs.

I am ashamed. Again.

[madfloridian]

11. Dionne's last paragraph gets it exactly right.

"But if legislation was needed, there were many ways to grant necessary authority while preserving real oversight. The Democrats got trapped, and they punted. The Republicans have never met a national security issue they're not willing to politicize. This is no way to run a superpower."

Maybe if we keep up the pressure, keep making the calls, emailing...our party will learn from this. If they don't stand up for us, there is no one else to do it.

[glitch]

22. Not punt. Chuck. They chucked it. They are chuckers.

I may be wrong but I think chuckers chuck the ball when they get it, they toss it anywhere just to get out of the play.

[regnaD kciN]

23. So, former NFL QB Schuler wanted to "stay and fight"...

So why did he wind up voting to cave? :wtf:

In his case, "punt" is just about right. His team was down by two points with ten seconds left in the game, fourth-and-inches on the opponent's 45-yard-line. His choice? Punt.

Our loss is the NFL's gain. :grr:

[rudy23]

25. We're talking about one of the worst starting QB's in Saints' history

and man, oh man, is that saying something...

[DeepModem Mom]

12. K&R

[WillyT]

13. !)(*&&^*&^*(

The episode was the culmination of a shameful era in which serious issues related to national security and civil liberties were debated in a climate of fear and intimidation, saturated by political calculation and the quest for short-term electoral advantage.

Politically, Republicans won this round in two ways. They got the president the bill he wanted and, as a result, they created absolute fury in the Democratic base. Pelosi has received more than 200,000 e-mails of protest, according to an aide, for letting the bill go forward.

Democrats concede they made an enormous tactical blunder by not dealing with the issue earlier, forcing the question to the fore in the days before the recess. One anxiety hovered over the debate: If a terrorist attack happened and Congress had not given Bush what he wanted, the Democrats would get blamed for a lack of vigilance.

:banghead:

Nuff said...

[Harry Monroe]

14. Political cowardice

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[babylonsister]

15. Kick! And agree. Why? nt

[Occulus]

38. It looks and smells like either incompetence... or blackmail. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Those bastards

Time to resurrect my thread from the other night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1515370

[robinlynne]

17. if important constitutional issues were at stake? nt

[Cha]

18. Hope they're satisfied that

they made the bushits happy and the people who know what's going on PISSED OFF.

[Blaze Diem]

28. Were they assured re-election via the Rovian election system,

..fuckers. too many Joe Lieberman's to count anymore.

[AndyTiedye]

41. More Likely the Opposite

They have effectively conceded the elections.
Not only have they totally caved in and surrendered,
but they have given the Repiggies the authority to Watergate them with impunity, right up to election day and beyond.

I think they were threatened with MIHOP followed by martial law,
but if they bend over and let the Repiggies "win" next year nobody gets hurt.

[Canuckistanian]

43. "they have given the Repiggies the authority to Watergate them"

Don't let anybody get fooled. This is EXACTLY what they'll be using this for.

Midnight break-ins are now obsolete. They can now have ANY information they want at the push of a button.

[glitch]

46. That's what I think too. Vichy.

My only hope now is they are stalling while allies prepare a way to help them fight the fascists. I don't think they can do it on their own now. Maybe they never could, not after seeing how far the fascists were willing to go after 9/11 and Katrina.
Not to mention the anthrax attacks and Iraq.

At this point it's a matter of picking out the collaborators from the capitulators. I don't even blame the capitulators so much, I wouldn't sacrifice an American city either.

But I sure as hell would be working on a plan and building alliances.

[bemildred]

20. The entire government has failed us on Iraq

For the president, and the majority leaders and candidates and rank-and-file Congressmen and Senators of either party—there is only blame for this shameful, and bi-partisan, betrayal.

Few men or women elected in our history—whether executive or legislative, state or national—have been sent into office with a mandate more obvious, nor instructions more clear:

Get us out of Iraq.

Yet after six months of preparation and execution—half a year gathering the strands of public support; translating into action, the collective will of the nearly 70 percent of Americans who reject this War of Lies, the Democrats have managed only this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18831132/

[rudy23]

24. They're either complicit, spineless, idiotic, indifferent, take your pick...

none of them are good.

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. This-makes-me-sick!

Every time I think about this my blood pressure goes up!:grr:

Gonzo = sheriff, judge and jury....Is that scary or what?! After all the laws he's broken? They're absolutely INSANE!

[aquart]

29. Two blue dogs stood up for the constitution?

How did they VOTE?

[madfloridian]

30. Schuler voted yes.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1420

[HardWorkingDem]

31. Maybe THIS is what their plan is...

Maybe they are thinking, appear to cave on this, keep the base stirred up and remove the summer recess opportunity for the Bushies to be able to hammer the Democratic congress at will as being weak on terrorism.

Maybe when the Dems get back they will use the uproar of the base to push for changes and go from there.

One thing I've noticed in my time following politics is that the huge single blowhorn of a President is always much louder than that of the smaller blowhorns of congressional members.

[mzmolly]

34. Anthrax, LIHOP, MIHOP ...

While I disagree with the vote itself, I am not entirely "baffled" by it when I consider the climate.
Key statement from the article: Most Democrats opposed the bill...

208 Democrats against
2 Republicans against

I expect we will rectify this in six months when the sunset deadline is up.

[AndyTiedye]

40. Too Late! The Authorizations Are Good for A YEAR

They can WATERGATE us throughout the upcoming election — legally!

[dennis4868]

37. This makes no sense....

Instead of impeaching Bush for committing many felonies (wiretapping without a warrant in accordance with the law) they give him even more unconstitutional authority. WHAT THE HELL ARE WRONG WITH THE DEMS. THEY NEED TO GO!!! If there ever was a President and attorney general who cannot be trusted with such authorization, it is this one.

As soon as this bill is signed into the law it must be challenged in court.

[deacon]

42. Nancy Pelousy n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

44. Dems didn't want to delay the vote they just wanted to get to the beach!

I think they could at least amended it at the last minute

[Major Hogwash]

45. E. J. Dionne? Who the hell is E.J. Dionne?

Are you guys still letting the MSM tell you what to think?

Geez, use your own head!

[NNN0LHI]

48. Mind boggling isn't it? n/t

[underpants]

52. I agree but I have to say that I like Dionne

I read his column fairly regularly not because he speaks truth but simply because he has some independent thought. Some not groundbreaking stuff but some.

Regardless even of the 6-month thing they shouldn't had looked like they were helping Bush in any way shape or form.

[madfloridian]

53. Run that by me again?

I gather you think what they did is either ok, or not so bad.

Help me understand...without the MSM I am nothing.

:sarcasm:

[spanone]

49. their plan is to give bu$h* all he wants....boy that'll teach him....hot damn

:hurts: :hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts:hurts

[spanone]

51. have blood, will boil

[EndlessMaze]

54. I'm bummed as well, but we need to keep on keepin' on

Before I respond to this editorial, I would like to say that it is weird seeing all of your 1000+ post comments, compared my little 16th here. Am I the only new blood around here? I am in awe of you, but not intimidated.

So....Regardless of what you 100+ posters say about the Democrats, and their capability, I still believe that Will Pitt's posts last weekend need additional thought. I agree with him, that the Democratic party is our only option at this point. I am bummed out about their capitulation on spying as you all are, but I think that we need to get a grip, and move on.

More to follow on my next 17# POST somewhere in D.U. land....

[madfloridian]

56. I agree they are our only option....and that scares me to death

if they are not willing to stand up against Bush's destruction of this country. It really does.

I do intend to keep on calling them out on this for that very reason...they are all we have. It is our job to hold them accountable.

I have never thought otherwise.

[downindixie]

57. It will never change

If we start marching en mass maybe,but that calls on lazy,unconcerned American to do something.It will never change!