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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:19 PM
Original message
Follow-up: Parole for man jailed after rape apology
Parole for man jailed after rape apology - AP

RICHMOND, Va. - A man who confessed to raping a woman as he apologized two decades later as part of the Alcoholics Anonymous program is scheduled to be released from jail after serving six months of an 18-month sentence, officials said Wednesday...

In March, a judge ordered a 10-year prison sentence with all but 18 months suspended...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070809/ap_on_re_us/to_forg...

I am fine with him serving this short amount of time. I understand that the victim is still hurt and bitter about what happened. But at this point, I think that's further reason not to take her views into account. Justice ought to be blind. Not hurt. Not bitter. Blind.

Looking at it from that view, the guy has been consistently repentent throughout this legal mess. Add to that the fact that he is only now being punished because he came forward and asked for forgiveness. I think its time to free the man and leave him to his God and whatever demons he's still fighting. He's paid his debt to society.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hold on a second, how is this "blind justice" exactly?
I don't get it. Dismiss the feelings of the victim based on "blind justice" to turn around and take the feelings of guilt from the rapist into consideration? Really?

If we ignore the feelings of both people involved, the fact is he committed a violent and illegal act on another human being. Six months is an insult.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Exaclty. Should we just let any criminal who apologizes and asks forgiveness off lightly?
That wouldn't be a very good crime deterrent.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Nope. Just rapists.
Rape victims tend to be really silly about hanging onto bad feelings about what happened, ya know. They should just get over it, in case their attackers become apologetic. :sarcasm:
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. And what the heck? Since this was an example of a campus date-rape, perhaps
it would be a good springboard for a special clause for college men. If they express regret for raping one of their fellow classmates within a certain time frame, say 12 hours, maybe they could just get off completely! After all, young women should realize they assume certain risks when they venture into higher education!
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. curious thing
Seccuro was given a drink at the party that made her feel strange, and she later passed out, leaving her memory hazy. She said she vividly recalls being attacked by Beebe, but always had a vague impression she'd been assaulted by additional members of the fraternity.


Was she unable to identify him at the time, or did she make no criminal complaint? Just odd that it's his word, and not hers, that seems to have been the deciding factor.

I'm afraid I'd have to say that if she didn't make a criminal complaint at the time, she's not in the best position to be complaining about how the criminal justice system dealt with the case 20 years later.

The article does say "The case was revived in 2005", but that "Seccuro ... eventually called Charlottesville police to report what had happened." Hard to know what the history was.


Anyhow ...
Authorities had hoped Beebe could assist them in their investigation, but prosecutors said he gave them no helpful information.

... if he knows but is not saying, it couldn't be much clearer that his "amends" were all about him and nothing about his victim.

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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
110. She reported the rape to the police and the University
when it happened, he skipped out the same week. The Universtiy apparently didn't investigate properly & the police let it die too.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. He got ten years, not six months
The rest of his sentence was suspended due to the circumstances involved. Not quite the same thing.

The guy is not a danger to society that we know of, and he knows he screwed up and he has real remorse. He sought on his own to make amends, even though he wasn't required to, and even though making amends would put him in jeopardy.

That should be encouraged.
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. What circumstances?
Because he claims he feels bad about it? Because he managed to evade authorties all this time?

Why should the way he got caught be taken into consideration when punishing him for a violent crime? I still say serving only 6 months for rape is insulting.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. He did it as part of a 12 step program. And from reports I read, after several email exchanges,
the victim began to feel like the "making amends" thing was all about the rapist and not so much about regret for how she and her life were affected by his act.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Bingo- that is the thing about AA amends that has always creeped me out.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 06:33 PM by BeHereNow
Ameds are basically a self serving act- members are told they must
make amends or they will drink again.
So who really benefits?
Alcoholics who are also predators are not only selfish,
they are sociopaths and should be locked up.
Sorry.
Seen too many JUST like this guy.
He will now prowl AA meetings and prey on newly sober women there,
all in the name of "working the program" mind you.

BHN
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. and doesn't it just give you a little secret thrill of delight to see it backfire?
I know it does me.

Imagine, though, discovering in such a pointy stick kind of way that the universe doesn't really revolve around yerself after all.

But cereally now, some people working that program are victims themselves, of the entire predatory AA organization and its many willing enforcers. Not everyone there starts out as a completely selfish clod with no shred of consideration for anyone else. Alcohol starts that training, and AA provides the graduate degree.

This one, I dunno. One would have to be either incredibly stupid or incredibly self-absorbed to think that this making-amends campaign was wise, without getting into whether it was decent, and I'd have to read up on him a bit more to venture an opinion of which he was.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. He raped a woman- what else do you need to know?
He is a predator, the statistics say he will do it again-
my guess is with a young woman, newly sober, that
he cunningly decides to 13th step.
All in the name of keeping her sober, mind you.
AA is full of sexual predators.
BHN
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
96. Your bitterness and cynicism regarding AA is the exception, rather than the rule, fortunately

Only about 10% of alcoholics get sober. The ones that do bring their personal defects with them into the program. Those who work the program learn to confront and take responsibility within the parameters of powerlessness. Those who work the steps make their lives better and have a positive effect on the lives of those around them.

Each person who gets sober is a miracle.


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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. AA has NEVER published data about their recovery/relapse rates.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 11:12 PM by piedmont
Because theirs are no better than other methods-- and I suspect they might be worse. So count me in your "exceptional" group.

edit: ugh, meant to type "theirs are," not their
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #101
111. I vote "WORSE." Ultimately, they do more damage than good.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 11:04 PM by BeHereNow
IMHO.
Keeping people sick, under the guise of fiction written in 1933,
refusing to acknowledge medical science as it pertains to addiction
in 2007, is CRIMINAL in my book-
Not to mention sheltering predators who claim rehabilitation
due to the AA program for untreated addiction and other disorders.
I repeat, AA is crawling with untreated sexual predators.
Mothers, beware.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #96
106. I see you have had plenty to drink of the AA kool aid.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:46 PM by BeHereNow
Go ahead, trade one addiction for another and keep telling yourself
it is not a cult.
Been there, done that.
NO, thank you.
BHN
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #106
117. Your slander of the people of recovery says more about you than about them

Recovery is hard, daily work. It's a journey to self-awareness completely independent of the network of people within which it's practiced and the type of program one utilizes to achieve it. NA, AA, Buddhism, all are practices that emphasize achieving enlightenment to counter the effect of over-attachment to worldly things.

Attacking other people is cheap, easy cynicism, and no real balm for the personal rot within. If a "cult" is a transferred addiction to codependent reliance on a social structure for personal definition, then addiction to the practice of purposely throwing oneself on the self-styled pyre of personal martyrdom to portray to all the innocents the "evil" of AA is the very essence of being a brainwashed cult member.

I'd take someone who works the steps before someone who wastes their life Quixotically trying to lance the windmill of AA anytime. AA, itself, is meaningless. It's just a tool, like a shovel. The ludicrousness of your position is perfectly illustrated through the analogy of someone who hates... shovels.

Powerlessness is the joy in knowing that this is your problem and not mine.

Have a nice day.


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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. "People of recovery?" There's NO evidence to support that claim.
Unless AA can show that their methods actually have lower relapse rates than quitting cold turkey, they should be regarded as nothing more than a money-sucking, time-wasting cult.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. Amen.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #117
123. And your self-righteous stand is precisely the proof in my pudding.
Have a nice day indeed, judging others.
Tolerance, eh?

BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #96
112. Lord, upon re reading your kool aid laced post, I must THANK YOU.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 11:02 PM by BeHereNow
Thank you for reminding me that is IS a cult of denial designed to feign accountability and
personal responsiblilty.
Personal defects?
Powerlessness?
Cult slang.
Period.
Thank you for reminding me why I ran screaming from the cult after seven years.
Guess what, I'm not dead and I no longer drink into black out or oblivion.
Sorry to rock the myth boat.
If anything, I resent the years AA stole from my time with my family-
insisting I could not stay sober if I wasn't "of service."
I believed them, and I regret every hour I spent away from my family
for it.
Fuck AA, it is a cult- no different than moonies or scientology.
"Without US, you will perish..." BULLSHIT- my life has never been better.
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Forgot to say- no, it does not thrill me. I pity his next victims, most likely AA members.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 07:04 PM by BeHereNow
he will soon figure out what a ripe picking ground AA meetings are for
victims. Vunerable, newly sober women.
I'm sure he perfect the art of presenting himself as some sort
of AA guru and lure them into his trap, that is what sociopaths do.
Fuck the judge or who ever released him.
Sociopaths do not belong in the general population and
certainly not among people who are vunerable and trying
to heal their lives.
BHN
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. you win

I'm sure I said something offensive, and if I knew what it was, I'd know what to say. Oh well.

I guess maybe I just didn't presume to know quite as much about a stranger as you do.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation in AA. I despise the entire organization. But I also don't presume to diagnose people I have never met, or predict their future behaviour.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Typically, rapists are known to be repeat offenders; thinking of him in AA gives me the chills
That is all I am saying- rapists typically repeat the crime, often with escalating
violence. Hate to think of him in AA meetings- a wolf among the newly shorn sheep.
Personally, I think AA is a cult and a danger to the mental health of some
participants, so we agree on some things.
BHN
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
46. actually, I think they qualify - "Make amends when it will not further harm the person I've harmed."
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. If the fuck who harmed my daughter ever tried to make amends, he'd be a dead man
He'd be the one who was be harmed.
Making amends is solely for the selfish aim of the alcoholic; to stay sober.
I've got a better solution. Don't drink you stupid fuck and leave
other people out of your cult rituals.
BHN
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. er... I'm not sure what the story with your daughter is.
But basically, the qualifier I mentioned is telling the alcoholic NOT to directly make amends to the person he harmed unless it would not cause further harm. So, basically, the alcoholic would have to find a way to live with what he'd done in his own head and not hers. Forgiveness, whether of yourself or of others, is ultimately an act to preserve the person doing the forgiving.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I have seen alcoholics "make amends" that DO cause harm to others- in this case
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 08:09 PM by BeHereNow
i would be fairly certain no good came of this amends, which I would be fairly
certain was for the benefit of the offender, to look good in court or what ever,
rather than the victim's who I would be sure would rather the guy stay behind bars.
Sexual predators can not make amends for the damage they do.
It is a life long scar and no amount of amends or forgiveness can heal
that scar. Period.
I will wish the man, that harmed my daughter, dead, for the rest of my life.
I only pray that he is locked away forever, unable to harm any one else again.
And I am certainly not interested in his amends for damage that will
never be undone.
BHN
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. I'm pretty much with BeHereNow on this one
The fundamental harm that an alcoholic/addict does to anyone who is close to him/her for any length of time is to take away that person's faith in her own judgment. She is afraid to trust anyone, because that just didn't work out well for her; she is afraid not to trust anyone, because she doesn't want to be the kind of suspicious misanthrope who hurts others by refusing to give help when it's deserved.

When someone who did that to you comes waltzing back into your life wanting to make amends, the effect on the victim is to put her back in the place she may have spent quite a bit of time and effort getting out of: having to decide whether to believe what she is being told, i.e. whether to trust the person telling her. And she's just never going to feel on firm ground for doing that.

Is he really sorry? Does he really have any clue about what he did to her? How should she react to his amends-making? Should she accept it at face value, risking the loss of the confidence in herself and her judgment that she's worked to build back up if he's just using her? Should she reject it, and risk feeling the guilt of not helping a deserving person if she's wrong?

What she shouldn't have to do is even think about the issue. She shouldn't be put in the position of having to decide whether she's being lied to and used all over again. She shouldn't be having to make a choice between behaving like a doormat and behaving like a hard-faced cow -- those are the choices she felt she had while the lying and using that he's making amends for were going on, and that is exactly how it feels when the person comes back and dredges it all up again. I lied to you and used you then, but trust me, I'm telling the truth and sincerely want to do right by you now. The foundations just shift a little more.

Victims of alcoholics/addicts should just be left alone by them. The damage they did just plain can't be undone, and anything they do that makes demands on their victims is going to exacerbate it, not fix it. "Making amends" does make demands, by the mere fact of the victim having to listen to it, and reacting to it with either disbelief or belief, and then experiencing the self-loathing that either reaction will inevitably prompt -- for being rotten, or for being stupid.

Me, I finally realized that the only way I could protect myself was to say to myself, once I had extricated myself and had years between me and the entanglement, that I did not have to believe or disbelieve anything that was said to me; it had nothing to do with me. Easier said than done, of course.

And that's what alcoholics/addicts, and their controllers at AA, need to accept: that their amends-making has nothing to do with their victims. It may make them feel good, but it has nothing to do with their victims. If they want to make amends, they should go make a large anonymous donation to a women's shelter or some damned thing. That should make them feel better, and avoid making anybody else feel like crap.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. Hell yeah...
Thank you for your clarity on this matter for any 12 stepping DUers who actually think making amends
is for the victims of their pathology.
BHN
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. OK call the judge and complain
And while you're at it, cal the other millions of people who agree with me that forgiveness is in the public interest. While you're at it, call Jesus and tell him he had it all wrong. While you're at it, dispense with all the major religions which all hold forgiveness as a fundamental tenet.

Its something humans should aspire to, even though judging from this thread, its hard to reach.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Rapists are not capable of cure, forgive him? Okay, set him loose to do it again?
I don't think so.
Forgive him all you want, but as the mother of a daughter
I want him in jail because he WILL do it again.
Look up the statistics.
BHN
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
72. This guy's been on the loose for 20 years
and hasn't done it again that we know of.

How about this: the guy was drunk and/or drugged up at some stupid party and did the unthinkable. That's it. He obviously has problems with substance abuse. The guy was living stupid and caused other people to suffer because of it.

But there's no indication that he has a tendency toward rape. There is a large distance between a stalker/rapist and a drunk college kid who (along with his buddies) tries to take advantage of a college girl who can't fend for herself. Big difference.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. "Tries to take advantage of" ???
Is that what happened? I thought she was GANG RAPED.

This thread is making me very angry.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
85. Come, we jump in my pool together...
I too, am infuriated with the astounding ignorance of the defense
where sexual predators are concerned.
BHN
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #72
118. What a PANTLOAD! Damn. RAPE is RAPE is RAPE. Unbelievable.
NO INDICATON that he has a tendency towards rape?

HOW ABOUT THE FUCKING FACT THAT HE RAPED SOMEONE?



I suppose it was her fault anyway? She was asking for it? She probably dressed slutty right?

What other jewels are you hiding just inside your ass?





I can't BELIEVE I just read this kind of ignorant bullshit on D.U.

We haven't really come a long way baby after all, have we?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #72
127. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #127
131. You are hysterical. May I tell you to take a deep breath?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
135. Do those same fundamental religious tenets you speak of.....
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 03:25 AM by DeSwiss
...approve of gang-rape too? Well, from my reading of the bible, I suppose maybe you could say it does. But then, who are we to offer forgiveness to this man? He didn't drug and then rape and violate me with a foreign object. If anyone has the right to forgive him, its her. But she's not in a forgiving mood it seems. And what she thinks doesn't matter anyway because in your view, as you've already said more than once, you don't think the victim's of such crimes should have a say in such matters. Apparently the exception to this rule is when its time to forgive these bastards.

The fact that he remained undetected and uncharged and un-convicted of these crimes, and wouldn't be now had he not apologized to her is absolutely irrelevant to the adjudication of his crime. That is a testament more to the inabilities of the authorities and not the righteousness of his decision to apologize to her. And besides, he's not the contrite upstanding person you're trying to make him out to be anyhow because if he were, he wouldn't have contacted her, he'd have walked right into the police station on his own and confessed. Now that's contrition. But he called her I'm sure, hoping to get her blessing so he could move on to the next step on the road to salvation. And I'm equally certain that he he hoped that prison didn't loom in his future. He hoped that she'd be impressed with his manliness and maturity and his willingness to now, after all these years to finally take responsibility for his crimes against her and that'd be the end of it. But it wasn't. And yet you seem perfectly willing to say that a rapist should be granted a pass on 95% of his sentence if he appears to be sincerely contrite and sorry. Son of Sam says he's truly sorry too. The dog was the real culprit giving him those bad ideas. And he's Born-Again. Hallelujah!!! Let's let him out now.

So in all this contrition and goodness he's exhibiting, how come he still hasn't told the authorities about the others who were involved in this? Isn't his knowledge of these malefactors and his continued willingness to cover up their crimes also his responsibility? Doesn't he have a religious obligation to stand up for the truth? Shouldn't he do the right thing by way of this woman and tell the authorities what he witnessed and whom he witnessed committing a crime against her? Does he get a pass on this too?

And I don't know where you ever got the idea that the justice system wasn't about revenge. We call it by many names, justice, fairness, equality under the law -- but it all started with revenge. Justice just sounds better. But its precisely about revenge. Because in the old days, vendettas were all the rage. That was how justice was dispensed. It was pretty much all self-service. And they could go on for generations. The justice "system" was designed to add some solemnity and uniformity to the process, and to establish the idea that it was the state who was in control here. And they needed to impose this control over people's erratic and blood-thirsty behavior. So that the state could carry out their own erratic and blood-thirsty behavior. But even the state realized that you had to punish the criminals because if you didn't, the vendetta's would just go on and on. So yes, convicting someone of a crime is about revenge. State-sponsored revenge, but revenge all the same. And its also about sending messages to other assholes who might have the same idea. All the lofty words about justice and fairness sounds good but in reality, when you've been violated, all you want is for the person(s) to pay, and pay dearly.

And one last thing (because I'm through whipping this dead horse), if there are in fact "millions of people who agree with you" on a matter such as this, then we're in a lot more trouble than I ever imagined. So yeah, I'll call Jesus and tell him myself that forgiveness is a crock, particularly when its given to a liar and a rapist. What's his number?

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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
136. I don't want to do the usual GD battle with you......
I agree with you 100% that forgiveness is what we should aspire to personally. I agree that it's a good thing that this man confessed to his crime because it makes ME feel like he is repenting, but is he? I will never know. You and the millions who agree with you will never truly know either. Isn't this between him and his God and no one else?

At the end of the day, Jesus or people of other religions simply cannot be taken into account. We have laws. He broke a BIG one when he raped and he broke more when he evaded authorities for two decades. His punishment simply does not fit his crime. This is not justice for society, for his victim, or for inmates who are serving a lot more time for a lot less crime.

I could call the judge and complain but I know it won't change the fact that he received 6 months of jail time for a decade sentence. May he have the strength and intelligence to finally do something positive and meaningful with his life now that he has his chance.

Here's the thing Sampsonblk, I personally view rape as a form of torture. As a woman, I honestly can't think of a more degrading, painful, humiliating, and terrorizing act than being raped and I think that the physical, mental, and emotional effects of the crime are often overlooked or ignored completely. I want to let you know that this is where I'm coming from in terms of how I view this particular crime.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. You know guys can get raped too. How would you feel if you got raped...
and the guy got out of prison only after serving 18 months?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Would you feel the same if he'd confessed belatedly to molesting your child?
Funny thing about rape victims, they tend to remember their assualts. Maybe you think they should get over their "bitterness" but trauma has a way of lingering. Why don't you think real long and hard about what it would be like to be violently sexually assualted, and then get back to us about what length of time should pass before your views on the experience should cease to be taken into account, okay?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. 16 years ago, a man hurt my daughter- we are both still affected.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 07:42 PM by BeHereNow
I would prefer that this man never contact me or my kid
because honestly, I think I would have to kill him.
I am afraid of what I would do.
BHN
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
62. I don't want to be contacted by the man who raped me
nor can I find it in myself to classify the event as "one of the things that made me stronger" (or to find any silver lining in the event.) Sorry - my life was altered. I have healed - but am different as a result, regardless of the healing. There is a term that many rape victims who come to terms with the event - "before rape/after rape" - regarding the alteration that can not be undone as a result of the event. We can come to terms with what happened, and how it has changed us - and through that understanding embrace who we are now and shake off all the self-blame that comes part and parcel with the event (irrational to self-blame - but completely natural and almost inevitable.)

So if he wants forgiveness, to make HIM feel batter - while pushing me back into the re-living stage... no.thank.you.
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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. If I were a Woman and He was truly repentant and 10 years has past...
...plus he turned himself in, I just might forgive him.

But I'm not a Woman so I can only voice a very small opinion...
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Opinions are like assholes
Everybody has one.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
57. You don't have to imagine you're a woman. Men get raped.
Imagine you were gang raped, and this happened 10 years later. Rape isn't easier if you're a woman.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
61. No you wouldn't.
And I am a woman.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. So.
Here's what I see. A man who rapes a woman and gets away with for two decades can't live with what he's done and so he writes her a letter apologizing to her. Two decades later. His contrition, while noteworthy considering the fact that most of these cretins would be gloating not only over the fact that he did it, but got away with it.

But he didn't apologize to her for her sake, he did it for himself because he couldn't live with it anymore. To clear his own conscience. Problem was, he ends up writing a confession that lands him with a 10-year sentence. Eighty-five percent of which is wiped away clean right up front even before the cell door clangs shut. And he doesn't even have to serve the remaining 15% but only serves one-third of that. So in the end, he ends up serving only 5% of the original 10-year sentence for raping a woman. 5%.

That's not only blind justice, that blind and stupid justice. But its also par for the course in the patriarchal "justice" system. I wonder if he'd been a black guy if he'd gotten a 10-year sentence? You know how them black guys instill fear in people -- even makes some elected officials offer blowjobs.

So this guy's "debt to society" is a mere 5% when you rape a woman? I know that I wouldn't be very happy with the judge for allowing a rapist of a female member of my family get away with only serving 5% of his sentence. I don't give a damn how contrite he is now, nor throughout this "legal mess." This legal mess was someone's life once that was changed irrevocably and will never, ever be the same.

Fucking 5%........


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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:50 PM
Original message
How long did they sentence that poor kid in GA for? Where he
was supposed to be let out, but the prosecutors are still keeping him in? Where he had consensual oral sex with a younger teen?

I agree with you, this sentence is nonsense. Sympathy for the rapist is entirely immaterial.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
86. Not only that....
...but in reading the article it said that the reason the prosecution accepted the plea bargain was because there was evidence that others also raped her.

So she goes to a frat house, is given a mickey and becomes groggy and incapable of defending herself. Whereupon the asshole not only rapes her, but uses some foreign object on her as well. Then when he's done, his buddies get their turn.

So what I want to know is, if he's so contrite how come he hasn't come completely clean? Why not out his buddies who are probably living the life in some suburbia somewhere as a lawyer or school principal? How come they get a pass? If the AA credo is to apologize to those to whom you've done past harm is to be carried out, how is closure going to be possible with her knowing there are still others out there who also raped her and he knows who they are? How many raped her? Who are these people and what kind of circumstances are they in now that may be putting others at risk? Have they raped again? Are they raping women now based upon having gotten away with it before? Who the hell knows???

And you're right of course with the example you cited about that kid in Georgia who has become a pawn in a political and racial power-struggle. And the intimidation upon this girl and boy's parents by the prosecutor is a travesty and they should be disbarred!

And I have to say it again, FUCKING 5%!!! -
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #86
141. I'm with you on this. Why is rape too often looked on lightly?
(I'm pretty sure I know, but still)

It's frustrating and infuriating.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good thing he didn't grow some pot.
Or he would have been in real trouble.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. He wasn't repentent for the 20 years he escaped the justice system.
Why the hell shouldn't she still be angry at him? Why do you call righteous anger "bitter?" The courts should take into account that this man evaded justice for two decades-- and PUNISH him for it, not reward it.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Is that all its about? Revenge?
And what good will that do? What you are talking about is revenge. From where I stand, revenge is not an acceptable reason to put someone behind bars. After all, we are not republicans.
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Whose revenge?
How would the criminal justice system punishing him for his crimes be about revenge?
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
76. The victim
She thinkd the punishment should have been harsher and that she should have been allowed to speak during the parole process. 'She said she was never given the opportunity to speak to the parole board.'

For what? The parole process is about him, not her. Its about his progress and whether or not he is suitable to be on parole.
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #76
94. Yes, she should have been allowed to speak at the parole board hearing.
It happens all the time. Victims, family and friends of victims are allowed to speak at these hearings on a daily basis throughout this country.

The parole process is about the crime, not him, and the victims are part of that crime. They should have a voice.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
41. You confuse punishment with revenge. I said he should be punished. nt
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
60. revenge,my ass...he committed a crime
rape is a crime.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
63. yep, rape just isn't really a serious crime, it doesn't alter peoples' lives
nor leave the victims with YEARS of issues - we should just forgive... cause the guy was contrite enough to contact the victim (uninvited) to spend more months (or longer) reliving the trauma. Indeed, his "contrition" should wipe away the crime and allieve any accountability.

I might agree with the theft of a relatively low monitary value item - something more easily recoverable for the victim. But rape? Such a post leaves me with the impression that you have never been the victim of a serious sexual assault, and do not understand the long lasting trauma that the victim is left to deal with.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. Amen.
BHN :thumbsup: :hi: :hug:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. your daughter, is fortunate to have such an empathetic
parent. Reading your words up thread, I was moved.

Thank you for sharing your deep wounds - as it demonstrates that there are more (indirect) victims of such violent crimes. Our lives (the victims and those who are close to us, and support us) are changed - forever.

:hi: :hug:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. To make things worse, my daughter is an asperger.
Thank you for your love.
BHN
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. All the more - she is lucky for you...
it is so natural to bury the whole event deeply - and try to bottle it up... the reactions/attempts to normalize life again are often subconsience... I can only imagine that this tendency (which makes it really hard to heal - but makes the aftermath profound and long-lasting) - would be exponentially (potentially) worse for a victim with aspergers.

Over the years you have disclosed such grace and beauty in strength. I am thankful that DU has led me to cross paths with you - as we all need moments of inspriration from those around us. And even though it is in the 'virtual world' - I find inspiration from you. Thank you - and please know that your willing to be candid and share at such a sincere level - touches lives.

Thanks,

salin
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #74
80. You make me cry...
Kiss the leaf of a beautiful Indiana tree for me, will you.
BTW, that is my daughter singing on "Soldier On" on that CD
I sent you some years ago.
As well as on the track, "The Light in the Dark."
"Don't be afraid... don't be afraid"
BHN :pals: :hug:
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. and I, too, now cry,,,,
wish I could grab that CD right now, and listen to it. I split my time between two communities - and the CD (which needs wider distribution, imo) is in my other home. I look forward to listening to it again with special ears for your daughter. I didn't realize you had a daughter - so I never made that connection. Those songs take on an even deeper level of enjoyment.

If our mutual friend in your neck of the woods, who is no longer a part of Du, reads this... I know that she too would be in tears.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. She knows my kid, spent Christmas with us a few years ago-
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:09 PM by BeHereNow
I just called her to invite her to an informal DU left coast lunch.
Hope she can come!
I miss her on DU and otherwise.
BHN
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. She would certainly add alot to the conversations
how many times have I read a thread and thought about her - and how much she could add.

I have to sign off for the night. Please know how much our exchange has moved my mood from steaming (from reading the news, and then reading this thread) to serene and hopeful. :toast:

Thanks for that. :loveya:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. Good night, dear friend.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:13 PM by BeHereNow
:loveya:
And don't forget to kiss an Indiana leaf for me!
Especially the ones turning color soon.
How i miss them.
BHN
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. Would you feel that way if he'd committed murder 10 years ago?
What about if he'd molested a child 10 years ago? Or is it just rape?
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
107. No Republicans get pardons...
...and its not about revenge. Its about JUSTICE.

I can't believe that anyone who is given a 10-year sentence for such a vile act, could be considered in any kind of a positive light (no matter whether or not he apologized to her after two damned decades!) after having only served 5% PERCENT of the sentence that was imposed. If that's the "system of justice" then its a BULLSHIT SYSTEM.

That is not justice.

No way, no how.

Period.

And on another note concerning this so-called "apology," if he was truly repentant, then why didn't he just turn himself in to the police and confess? He contacts her out-of-the-blue while she's trying to live her life carrying the memories of that day with her everywhere she goes and here he comes back again into her life. Only to add another insult to what he's done by essentially escaping the punishment that he so richly deserves. And I'll ask it again, what about the others who were complicit in this crime? He's still shielding them. Maybe new charges of misprision of a felony or aiding and abetting of a felony should now be sought until ALL THE BASTARDS involved in this miscarriage of justice get their day before the judge.

These fellow cretins are his frat brothers. Don't you think they're gonna look out for him -- like a job and getting his shit together after he's released from prison for not naming them? He's a fucking asshole masquerading as a new man. He's giving a little bit of truth, but not all of it. She deserves to know who these other people are and they deserve whatever the system calls for. But like he was for two decades, they remain free upstanding citizens. Maybe one's a minister and we should overlook it now because he's in the soul-saving business. Or maybe one's a teacher whose a nice, kinda touchy-feely guy with all the cute girls in his class. Maybe one's a boss who's been taking advantage of his position of power and is still raping women at his company. How the hell would we know if he's not going to tell the whole truth? Shouldn't they be punished too? They can never be if he doesn't give them up.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's just gross
And a miscarriage of justice. What would he have gotten if he had been sorry for a violent murder he committed 2 decades prior? He's "sorry" because he's in AA now, so a couple of years?

I'm an AA fan, but this is bullshit. One thing I know about alcoholics. Letting them off easy does NOT help sobriety.
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Being raped is receiving a life sentence
I don't know how anyone ever gets over it. Apologies are nice, but how does that help you to stop blaming yourself?
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. You're fine with his "Serving a short amount of time" oh really?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Clearly, the OP doesn't have a daughter or loved one who has been a victim of a sociopath.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 07:09 PM by BeHereNow
Rape is the act of a sociopath, an act of violence without empathy
or conscience for the victim's humanity.
Rapists are notorious repeat offenders.
Sociopaths are masters at appeasing to fit in.
This guy in AA meetings is a disasterous recipe for more rapes.
BHN
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. No shit - rape apologists?! on DU!?!
Jesus, this place has hit a new low. :grr:
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Yep
:puke:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Ditto. n/t
BHN
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
54. low, indeed, but not new
unfortunately, it has happened before...
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
64. the only good thing about this thread... is that I get to cross your path
(even if it is a day late...) :hi:
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. low, indeed, but not new
unfortunately, it has happened before...
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
28. Fuck that.
I don't care how repentant you are, if you commit rape, you ought to be put away for LIFE.
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. just a bit of advice from a voice of experience
I get very uncomfortable with too much talk about victims' "rights", victims having their say, and so on.

The criminal justice system is designed to deal with crimes as offences against society, not to compensate victims or restore victims' sense of security or give victims revenge. It took a lot of human history to get to the point where justice is public, not private -- and it is a fundamental part of the rule of law that the law be administered without regard for persons, that it treat eveyone equally.

That does not mean that someone who sexually assaults a 5-yr-old should not be dealt with more harshly than someone who sexually assaults an adult, for instance. The crimes are objectively different. But sentences should not be determined by how much a victim hates the offender.

I was abducted, sexually assaulted and nearly killed when I was a law student. At the time, I was working part-time ... researching the sentencing of sexual offenders. This was over 30 years ago, so I was fortunate to be dealing with prosecutors who included me in the plea bargaining and sentencing process, rather than ignoring me. But they over-included me; they would not agree to a deal unless they had my approval. And there was me, with my academic knowledge about optimum sentence lengths for sexual offenders, and my feminist understanding of sexual assault as a mechanism of oppression, and my realization that the man in question was illiterate and severely disadvantaged, as well as being creepy and dangerous ... not just a victim, me, but an expert, with a highly developed sociopolitical analysis and social conscience.

I didn't want that responsibility, and I should have just said so. Ultimately, I agreed to what was probably not quite an adequately long sentence; rehabilitation be damned, the man had committed a series of particularly vicious crimes, and the only reason I was not dead was that I'd used my head and my feet and got away from him, and the only reason someone else was not dead was that I'd got to the police and they'd got to him before it happened.

But I also would not have wanted to be responsible for him getting an unusually long sentence because I decided that his punishment should suit my suffering. I've suffered the ptsd that arose from the event, combined with others in my life, for three decades since. Does this mean that he should have been incarcerated for those same three decades? I don't think so. But someone else in my situation might think, in the aftermath of the event, that no punishment is enough. And if her wishes were reflected in sentencing, she might eventually regret her influence on the decision and her share of the responsibility for someone else spending his life behind bars. Victims don't need to have their lives tangled up with the offenders' any more than they already are.

Sentencing should be left to the system and people that we assign that job to. They should hear the victims, and the victims should feel that their experiences are understood and respected by the system and the people in it. But it should also be made clear to victims that what is done to offenders is neither their choice nor their responsibility. That, I know from experience, is the very best way to help victims move on from what has happened to them.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
79. Very sorry to hear that. I agree with your sentiments
Especially on the issue of "victims' rights." And the importance of different punishments for different crimes. Absolutely.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
33. Interesting. The "Revenge vs. Penitence vs Rehabilitation" war heats up once again.
:puke:

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
45. It's not just about revenge- it's about the facts of repeat offenders.
Rapists tend to be repeat offenders- rehabilitation does not
enter into it, nor does revenge. It is about keeping
the general public SAFE.
Those who typically can not be rehabilitated do not
belong in the population where they are free to hurt others.
This is particularly true of pedophiles.
BHN
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
77. Sure, but you can't punish this guy based on statistics
They are both human beings.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. How about punishing him because that's what happens when you rape someone?
How about sending a message to other stupid drunk frat boys that women aren't on this earth to be physically assaulted by them?
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. The justice system isn't for sending messages
Its supposed to be about HIS crime and the circumstances surrounding it.

Someone really touched a nerve with you on this subject.
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fizzgig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #82
138. a primary function of sentencing is deterrence
to send a message that if you act in such a way, you will be punished accordingly

one of the three purposes of sentencing, at least in my state, is deterrence

and yes, it is about his crime. but that also includes the effect of the crime on the victim(s).

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. And on that note- I think I need to go jump in the pool to wash your ignorance off me.
You have obviously never been or had a loved one hurt
by a predator.
For your ignorance on the topic, I forgive you.
For your continued support of a sociopath-
I do not.
BHN
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #81
99. I'll be joining you in the pool
:hi:

:hug:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Come on in, the water is fine and needed for purification after wading through
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:31 PM by BeHereNow
some of the shit on this thread...
:hug: :banghead:
BHN
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
58. saying i'm sorry ten years later doesn't mean
that he's rehabilitated.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. Woohoo...A 13-Stepper!
"The program's ninth step calls on alcoholics to make amends to those they have harmed unless doing so would cause further injury."

I hope the OP noticed the part of the ninth step where you are ONLY supposed to make amends if it DOES NO HARM to the person you need to make amends to.

A 13 stepper is a sleazy guy who hangs out at AA meetings waiting for vulnerable newbies so he can "take advantage" of the situation, usually by first plying the newbie with copious amounts of alcohol. Then comes the sex.

I am an alcoholic. I have been sober for 15 years. Personally, I don't do the AA thing. I do Rational Recovery when I feel a need for support. I can't stand the religious angle/cult-like atmosphere of AA.

...but that is just an aside.

I am not a pound-of-flesher, not by any means. I do not support the death penalty and I hate our prison system, rife with rape and torture, creating people much worse than when they went in. I would much prefer hospitals. I would prefer therapy. I would prefer kindness and gentleness and that people really be helped in real ways. I would also like Ed McMahon to visit me with a large check and I would like to have my very own painted pony.

I also suffer from a mental illness. I know sexual predators also do. I fight for the rights of the mentally ill and have all my adult life. That does not mean I think that because someone is ill someone else is required to be their victim. We can't know if this man is really sorry. He may well be. The problem is, he still has the illness, regardless of how sorry he may be and NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO BE HIS VICTIM SIMPLY BECAUSE HE IS ILL.

Sex criminals have the highest rate of recidivism of ANY crime because it is based in an illness. It is based in something that started when they were tiny. At this point in time, we have NO successful treatments for sexual predators. They do repeat the crime. This man will and maybe has, raped again. He needs to be locked up. This isn't about punishment; it's about giving the victim some peace and it's about protecting women and children.

I kind of think if he was truly redeemed he would not have accepted a sentence reduction. Rapists rape. It is a very insidious illness based in patriarchy, entitlement issues and childhood abuse. Fluffy feelings will not insure that the women who have to come in contact with him will be safe. He is a predator. Or to put it in my "feeling" words...crock of crap. He should be behind bars.

Lee
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. EXACTLY- I see you and I have been down similar roads.
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 07:45 PM by BeHereNow
AA is crawling with sexual predators.
Been there, seen that.
Rapists are predators and it makes me puke to know
how many of them are creeping around in AA meetings.
And yes, I know this.
BHN :thumbsup: :hi:
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. yes
:hug:

Lee
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Back at ya-
:hug:
BHN
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. ...and just fyi
He gave his victim a life sentence. Or did you think we just get over being raped? You should go look at the suicide stats for rape survivors...or the rate of depression...or the number who never leave their homes again....or the ones who are never able to have a relationship...or...

She will never completely get over what was done to her BY THIS MAN.

Lee
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. And not just the victim...try being the mother of someone who was hurt by a predator.
Predators should not be allowed among us without
a big fat tatoo on their foreheads to identify them.
My 2 cents.
BHN
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
73. I'm with you
:hug:
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
69. Amen
:yourock:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
50. Six months for raping a woman?
And you think that's fine because she's bitter?

:wtf:

I would be bitter too. You can't just apologize for raping someone and think that suddenly makes it a minor crime.

He should be serving that 10 year sentence!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Yep - ten years will keep him from harming others, I'd make it 20.
By then, hopefully he will be impotent and incapable of
harming other victims.
BHN
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #50
84. He sought her out
Had he just laughed it off, he'd still be laughing now. But he came forward and apologized. For that, you'd give him the full sentence and let all the other guys (who are still laughing) go free?

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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #84
91. Check Post 38
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:09 PM by Madspirit
That would be mine. Read the responses. REALLY listen to the women in this thread. Really listen to the men in this thread. Stop being a rapist apologist. That IS what you are doing. Tough shit that he's all sorry. What is the matter with you? HE IS NOT THE VICTIM HERE. Stop acting like he is. He is the perpetrator of a violent crime. That woman got a life sentence. She will ALWAYS be a rape victim. Do you think we just get over it? If I came an held you down against your will and shoved a god damned broom up your ass until I was through having a good time, the whole time you not knowing whether I was going to kill you or not...because terror is another part of rape...the woman never knows if she's going to die...you would forgive me huh? If I said I was sorry. Please. STOP BEING A PIG.
Lee
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #91
132. Cut out this "rapist apologist" bullshit!
No one is apologizing for rape.

Some just disagree that the guy ought to be crucified.

There is no chance for rational discussion on threads like this.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #132
140. So actually serving his lawful sentence for the crime he committed is "crucifying" him?
10 years for violently raping a woman is a "crucifixion"?

Those poor rapists, getting crucified with those onerous 10 year sentences for brutally violating an innocent victim!

If your idea of "rational discussion" in rape threads is sympathy for a violent criminal offender who brutally violates women, then no, I don't think there should be a place for that on DU.
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #84
95. He had NO RIGHT to impose himself in her life either time.
And an apology isn't a get-out-of-jail card, especially when it's as self-serving as his was. He avoided the jail time for two decades, and he shouldn't now be able to avoid any of it.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #95
98. Thank-you piedmont
Evidently the OP doesn't "get" the 9th step. You are to make amends UNLESS DOING SO HARMS THE PERSON YOU WANT TO MAKE AMENDS TO. That means emotional harm.

This RAPIST'S actions are entirely self serving.
Lee
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
102. Hell no, I wouldn't let the other guys go free.
I'd like to be hunting them down, honestly.

The fact that most rapists get away with it without punishment doesn't, in any possible way, mean that turning yourself in should be a ticket to leniency. What we need is more enforcement of laws against rape and sexual assault.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #84
122. It must have been difficult to find a post big enough for that STRAW MAN
Who said ANYTHING about "letting your 'laughing' men go free"? And what in the hell does that have to do with anything? Nothing that's what. Straw man. You put exaggerated words and ideas in someone else's mouth, and then you invent this side argument as a distraction.

You win the prize. You are apparently the worlds weakest debater.
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
52. Consider that his frat brothers / co-rapists are roaming free, & likely leading 'respectable' lives
somewhere.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #52
88. Must I think of that?
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 10:03 PM by BeHereNow
I hope they all suffocate on their own vomit at a frat-bro reunion.
BHN
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
53. he should do the full ten
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 08:33 PM by noiretblu
for the CRIME he CONFESSED to committing. sure, just totally disregard the victim and allow a confessed rapist to get off with a shamefully light sentence because he said he's sorry (i hope you aren't a judge). :wtf:
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
59. I don't think justice was blind in this case


Fratholes like this never do hard time... Because they are of the same race, class, and culture as judges and prosecutors.

He deserves more than 18 months.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. Is that him?
BHN
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #66
109. Yep
I'm surprised he even made it to arraignment.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #59
83. What???
You think he got off easy because he was in a FRAT???
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #83
97. Umm...yeah
I absolutely think that kind of thing influences judges.

Lee
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #97
113. I am not talking statistics, I am talking about this case
Do you think this particular guy got an easy sentence because the judge knew he had been in a frat??? What about the parole board? Same thing?
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
108. What goes with frat membership?
White, middle-to-upper-class, college-educated, ostensibly straight. You're pretty much prison-proof if you are all of the above.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. I find that very hard to accept in this case
I could be wrong. But it looks to me like the authorities took into account the unusual nature of the case: the length of time that has passed, the man's behavior since committing the crime, his contrition, his behavior in prison, how he came to be caught, etc.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Which leads one to wonder...
why the "authorities" "took into account" these factors in his case. If he was an illiterate black man his contrition would mean doodley-squat.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
90. Well, what do you want? We need that prison space for non-violent drug offenders serving mandatory
minimum sentences.

Look, we basically have two choices-

either we can wage all these happy little control-freak wars on all manner of consenting adult behavior that keep the puritans and neo-puritans all happy,

or we can reserve the space in our prisons for the folks who most deserve it, namely those who commit acts of violence (like rape) on other humans.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #90
104. impeachdubya is so cool
I don't know if I've ever told you how cool I think you are. You are one of the folks here I most look forward to reading. You are consistently progressive, supportive and pretty wonderful. Thank-you.

Just sayin'...

Lee
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #104
133. Thanks, Lee.
:blush:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
103. I smell me some BULLSHIT!!
"Oh, I'm ever so sorry, Your Honor, I will never rape another woman again, I have learned my lesson..."

And two weeks later? We're dealing with a woman who's half-hysterical, half-comatose, with fresh bruises and torn clothing. The semen recovered with the sexual assault kit has yielded DNA linking this puke with yet another rape. Oh, sure, he's learned his lesson, all right.
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Right On!...n/t
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #103
116. Ummm, no. Its been 20 years. And he contacted her
Had he not voluntarily expressed sorrow, he would not have been caught.

There goes the two weeks theory.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #116
124. Oh, I so sure she was happy to hear from HIM.
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 12:31 AM by BeHereNow
What are you smoking anyway?
BHN
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #116
129. Well, hell then....
...since he's expressed his sorrow, by all means let's just knock-off 95% of his prison sentence!!!
Clearly those six months out his life can never been returned. His debt to this woman and society has been duly paid and everybody, absolutely everybody needs to just move on and forget about it.

Gee, I am so sorry I misjudged him. He's such a swell fellow to admit that he participated in the gang-rape of this woman, and she has to understand that "his needs are now more important than any scars she might still carry." He is just being victimized, yet again. Obviously this would never have happened if she'd freely just had sex with him. Then all this gang-raping business would never have happened. Probably.

And that "voluntarily expressed sorrow" stuff is in such short supply these days. Hey! I know.... we should start a petition and send it to the Vatican to have him elevated to sainthood. He can become the Patron Saint of Privileged, Sexually and Power Obsessed Sociopaths.

:sarcasm:
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
120. He's "paid his debt to society"?
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 11:51 PM by WildEyedLiberal
No, he hasn't. Not by a LONG SHOT. Six months for a VIOLENT GANG RAPE is not even remotely close to "paying his debt to society." It is absolutely irrelevant how long ago he committed his crime - it's called the statute of limitations. For particularly violent and brutal crimes, like murder, pedophilia, and RAPE, the statute of limitations is a very, very, very long time. So it means JACK SHIT in the eyes of the law that he raped her 20 years ago - he might as well have raped her yesterday.

But obviously, you're more interested in making HIM - a violent rapist - the victim, dismissing the REAL victim's pain and suffering from the VIOLENT RAPE that was inflicted upon her as "bitterness."

We should all be "bitter" when a violent, brutal CRIMINAL gets off scot-free.

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #120
125. After seeing what he's posted in this long thread, I have to wonder what the OP's motivation is. nt
Edited on Fri Aug-10-07 12:05 AM by piedmont
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #125
126. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #125
128. You're right Piedmont...n/t
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
130. THIS is THE Most Unbelievable Post I have EVER read.
....because the rapist was also a substance abuser and raped the woman while fucked up on booze and drugs...

**sampsonblk said..."But there's no indication that he has a tendency toward rape. "**

Well yeah, raping someone shows he has a tendency to rape. It actually shows that he is a rapist. What the hell is the matter with you? I have many guy friends who have been totally drunk and fucked up and they never raped anyone. I have straight guy friends I have partied with, passed out on the bed of, many times, in my younger days and they never raped me.


**sampsonblk..."There is a large distance between a stalker/rapist and a drunk college kid who (along with his buddies) tries to take advantage of a college girl who can't fend for herself. Big difference."**


THE WOMAN IS STILL RAPED! So you're actually totally insane, right? You think of rape as college hi-jinks. THE WOMAN IS STILL RAPED! I no longer just think of you as a rape apologist; I think of you as a potential rapist.


You should be SO ashamed for even posting this. ...and now that you've actually posted something scary wrong, this post...I sure as hell hope it stands.

Lee
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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #130
134. Bookmark this one. This guy has shown his true self, and it's rather scary.
Mods, leave his rape-defending shit up. It needs to be seen.
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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
137. Great an alcoholic rapist is free to rape some more.
WTF, is up with our justice system that basically gives a big FU to the victim because well the criminal is really sorry, we think.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
139. let him be repentent in prison
you act like this was some kid who committed vandalism .

no, he committed a horrible violent act against another PERSON.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
142. Locking
This has become a flame fest.
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