Normally a Lounge topic: Kitty Cats. Loose Kitty cats in urban areas.

[JanMichael]

Our homeowners association is having a meeting this month to discuss "cat problems." My wife and I have two pets--one an indoor only older cat, Stinky. She is not allowed outside, because she has been raised as an apartment cat since being abandoned at 4 weeks old.

There are several people in this complex (mixed--free standing townhome type condos, and one large building converted from an old mill) that have kitties that roam outside. We have never seen cats in this complex doing anything other than snoozing, or sitting outside asking to go in. We have seen some dead baby birds in the Springtime, but most of them look as if they fell out of the nest. There are baby bunnies galore.

A week ago, my wife and another resident watched a sharp shinned hawk (wife's a birder) rip the head off a pigeon.

This complex abuts a college (across the street) and there is a state university less than 1/2 mile away. Students toss trash such as cheeseburgers, fried chicken, empty beer cans, near here constantly. We have to watch the dog all school year long to keep her from picking up "gross stuff."

There is a drainage/storm creek running alongside the college.

Now our homeowners association in their infinite wisdom have decided that outdoor cats are a "problem." "Why" we don't know yet---we cannot imagine. However, we have the feeling that they are going to complain about "bird deaths."

It is our opinion that city people have become so used to sanitized living, that they don't seem to realize that leashing cats will cause one problem: Rats. This is a perfect environment for vermin, and they can't seem to grasp that the rogue kitties are sleeping because they have been out hunting all night---while the birdies are safely tucked in their nests.

Why are people so damned stupid.

Comments?

[Bongo Prophet]

1. Cats eat rats, and dogs eat "gross stuff"

Balanced ecosystems and all that...

[JanMichael]

2. I know. But, Scout is not going to come inside and puke up

"gross stuff."

It's easier to yell, "SCOUT NO!!!!" than it is to smell and clean up that crap.

[Bongo Prophet]

8. I hear that - Keeping "nature" off the carpet can be a challenge! LOL

Even though they will try to eat it again, it's a pretty gross process.

Good thing they are so sweet and loyal. Just loose standards. :hi:

[undergroundpanther]

31. My Rus gets sick alot

He has damaged intestines from worms he had from when he was abandoned before I got him. He is the sweetest cat, but I do get sick of cleaning the barf up.He's smart tho, he barfs on the tile whenever he can.I thank him for doing it on tile and reward him. To make sure he keeps aiming for tile.And Sparkle does his part, he tells me when Rus or any cat has had a barf episode.Sparkle finds me and meows at me with a kleenex in his mouth.It's adorable the muffled meow and the kleenex is so big compared to my Sparkle.It's like he's got a tablecloth in his mouth.He pulls it out of one of the two kleenex boxes I keep around.

[zalinda]

45. Now that's a pic I'd love to see

To bad you couldn't get a video of old Sparkle doing his kleenex thing, utubers would eat it up.

zalinda

[Polly Hennessey]

3. Outdoor cats

I agree. People are the problem. In our neighborhood we have a stray/feral cat problem. Most of them were probably left by people moving and leaving cats behind (people create the original problem). Our street is quiet and a cul-de-sac. In order to contain the colony of cats we have formed the Cat Ladies Club ---- which means we trap them, take them to our vet (he gives us a cost break) for spaying and neutering and then release them back into the neighborhood. We have been successful and are managing to control the colony to about ten or so. Of course, we name them all and, yes, we feed them.

[PDJane]

5. Toronto tried that banning and rounding up feral cats....

The vermin problem got completely out of hand. It's NOT a good idea.

[Cobalt-60]

54. Europe was a little short on feral cats about 1347

And the uncontrolled rodents treated Europeans to the Black Death.
It seems that all kitties were marked for extermination as servants of the devil.

[aquart]

6. Yep. We do catch and release in NYC.

Rescue people and cooperative vets trap the strays, neuter, spay, and turn them loose again. If you don't, you risk Feline AIDS and FIP running wild thru the community.

We just deballed a gorgeous Abyssinian who's been coming for breakfast.

[flying rabbit]

36. LOL

Sorry but if you take that last sentence out of context it is fantastic!
:silly:

[shireen]

50. Thank you, Polly

that's a wonderful thing you're doing. :yourock:

[Polly Hennessey]

59. Thanks

Thanks, Shireen. I captured one this morning that I have been trying to get for a long time. He/She has Siamese markings but also some Calico. I gave he/she the name Marshmallow. We will pick the guy/gal up tomorrow. We also have the Vet give them their shots. It's the least we can do. In order to help pay for the procedures we have an occasional garage sale and that helps.

[havocmom]

4. When urban populations want to do away with ferral cats, they are in for RATS, you're right!

Always wondered if part of the problem with dark-ages plagues was that many towns, cities actually killed off huge numbers of cats.

Most people would be astounded at how many wild cats live around them. And they should be grateful for the good work these cats do.

[pitohui]

15. why do people keep spreading this big lie?

i'm going to guess that the overwhelming population of posters on a site called democratic underground regarding issues of the democratic party of the united states of america live in the usa or at least in north america

cats do not control rat poopulations in north america

period end of sentence

perhaps they did so in egypt where they evolved, altho it's unlikely, the size of a predator's population is determined by the size of the prey population, not the other way round as popular myth would have it

biology really should be required in the high schools, if you ask me, public ignorance on this topic is fairly shocking

[emilyg]

18. Beg to differ

In the Nursing Home where my Dad was they had a terrible rat problem. A family of kitties took up residence in the back. Within 2 weeks no more rats.

[havocmom]

19. I know several urban 'hoods where they got rid of ferral cats

Then, hanta virus became an issue.

[emilyg]

26. Crows

My condo association got it's panties in a wad because I throw bread to crows.They said I was encouraging Bird-flu. Took me a long time to explain to these bright people that crows are our sntinels.
As long as they're healthy - we're ok. People do have a lot of misconceptions.

[undergroundpanther]

30. Disconnected from nature

Living in a sanitized cage so they never observe what is going on around them. Sad little people.
Keep feeding the crows I bet they are a hoot to watch.

And a pissed off crow can kick a cats' ass, as do mockingbirds and blue jays if a cat threatens their peeps.I had to take out a mockingbird as not only was he dive bombing any other birds,and injuring them ,he attacked my dog, he went after anything walking under that tree including ME. So I shot him with an arrow.Some birds defend their young too well.

[Mugu]

47. I once had the cutest, most lovable calico barn kitty.

She was just a tiny little thing. Much smaller than her bothers and sisters. I would guess no more than than 5 pounds. But she was the most murderous creature that I have ever known. Mice,voles, frogs, birds, it didn't matter. If she could get it in her mouth, she tortured it unmercifully until it was dead.

I always leave the overhead door of the barn up about 6” so the cats can come and go. One day I found a dead Red Tail hawk on the floor of the barn. It hadn't been eaten, just killed. I didn't know what to think, so I just put it in the trash and forgot about it. A few weeks later, I go out to the barn and there's a dead Barn Owl on the floor. Again it wasn't eaten, it was just dead. Now that's just strange.

So I start watching out the window and I see a Red Tail hawk setting in an oak tree in front of the house. And it's staring at something. It's her. She's just a couple of feet in front the open overhead door. She's on her back, rolling around, just having a great time enjoying the day and looking vulnerable.

The hawk never took the bait, but I'd bet that if it had, it would have ended up dead on the barn floor.

She's not around anymore. I believe that a coyote got her.

Coyotes are nature's answer for lazy/stupid/ignorant/slow/over-confident cats.

Regards, Mugu

[havocmom]

41. Years ago, they killed tens of thousands of bats at that lived under the concrete bleachers at UA

Then, the neighborhood around the university started having serious problems with mosquitoes. The idiots who had the bats offed said it was because people had potted plants around their patios and the water in the saucers caused the bugs to suddenly flourish. Amusing. Like all those people didn't have their potted plants before?!? :wtf: They all went out and put potted plants on their patios all at the same time? And THAT caused all the mosquitoes to suddenly become a nuisance? NOT BLOODY LIKELY.

Some decision makers killed off the bats that ate the bugs then the bugs became a real problem. DUH.

Idiots. They don't ever consider unintended consequences. And when ya go messin' with predator/prey balance, there will ALWAYS be consequences.

[havocmom]

24. GD =General Discussion. Yep.

And where there are cats, there are less rodents.

The priests who kept the grain silos in ancient Egypt did not have the benefit of high school biology classes. They had to rely on observation. They figured cats were so good to have around, they deified them.

Dark ages: there got to be some cat killing cults. Then people started dying off from the diseases carried by fleas on rodents.

Many a sailing ship kept a cat or two. They helped with rodent control, a big problem in the past.

My old hometown - where homeowner associations went on a cat ridding pogrom, rodents became serious problems.

I just love the advocates of education who seem to miss the fact that all knowledge came, originally, FROM OBSERVATION.

Remove the predators and the prey species increases ... fast.

I live where there are LOTS and LOTS of deer and antelope but damned few wolves and lions.

[KittyWampus]

44. Well, cats sure as hell control rat populations on farms. How they wouldn't in cities

is beyond me.

[undergroundpanther]

34. Yep

The plague was caused by the fleas on rats,
http://www.agiweb.org/geotimes/may07/article.html?id=feature_plague.html
http://www.springfield.k12.il.us/schools/springfield/eliz/plague.html

[undergroundpanther]

7. because they are not enough

in touch with the way nature IS to realize when nature is being beneficial to them?
Insulated petty control freak people who freak if rain musses their hair or whatever need to go on a wilderness retreat or better yet take them deer hunting,and have them dress the carcass..Why can't there be a way to make these ass hats live without their pampering world awhile to grow up?..

Save the birds and call in the rats.Warn them very explicitly about fixing a problem that does not exist and wait for the rats and make sure you tell them when the rats ARE a problem,I TOLD YOU SO. Rub their noses in the mess these snots made.don't let them forget their stupidity.Shame the HELL out of them.

Meanwhile call a group that traps neuters/spays and releases cats back into their colonies. If need be find people willing to help your cat colony stay.Get pro cat people's ears and they will fight for your cat colony's rights to be. Aim to humiliate the neighborhood association publicly. I will curse the living shit out of these ass hats if they start to kill those cats.I'll give them nightmares,and 'unfortunate circumstances'.I hate people that hate cats,when the cats are not doing anything bad.

Stupid people with control issues and it shows with this desire for a perfect lawn with no signs of life other than grass and perfect trimmed hedges ,it is a fear nature,something they will NEVER control.

These small minded people don't need to be given "neighborhood associations"to voice their 'concerns'.What they need is a kick in the ass and be told exactly how stupid and out of reality they ARE..

Dare them to spend two weeks roughing it without conveniences.Maybe after some real face to face contact with raw nature and seeing how rough and oblivious and bloody nature really is, the cats won't seem such a "problem" when they come back to their stifled perfect little bullshit lives..

The worst is a caged neurotic animals who think they are so"civilized"( the kind of busybody nobody people that run neighborhood associations to 'be somebody' )faultfinding to find a problem out of nothing out of sheer boredom or control freakishness.They want a war. They are too chicken shit to make any real life changes that matter so they attack the cats. I hate people like that annoying little worms with huge egos.They are the real problems..

[bettyellen]

9. we used to have a large feral colony out back and someone poisoned a good dozen of them

it was heartbreaking, we had dead bodies all over our yards.
and we never caught the person. we think it was a neighbor who was cleaning up his yard alot.
we think they used antifreeze.
OTH I had indoor/ outdoor cats growing up and they were very happy cats. :shrug:

[undergroundpanther]

11. people who poison cats

I curse to DEATH .As soon as I find out,They get a wall of hate directed right to them.It is funny how their lives fall apart after I do it.And If I catch them,well not gonna get into that here.Cats are sacred. Don't fuck with the cats unless you want their lives taken out on yours.Hail Sekhmet!

[KT2000]

10. you are so right

I live in a community with lots of retired people. Some of these folks have blamed cats for just about everything - digging up and EATING daffodil and tulip bulbs was my favorite!

Upon closer examination, I have found that the people behind such moves are just people who hate cats - and I mean hate cats. I had to enclose my deck because so many cats were being killed by these fools.
Some of these people will resort to this if they do not get their way.
Just be careful.

[wicket]

12. "digging up and EATING daffodil and tulip bulbs was my favorite!"

OMG, I've heard that one before! Our old crazy landlord swore up and down that cats were eating her bulbs. :rofl:

[SharonAnn]

21. Around here it's squirrels and chipmunks that do that. And cats eat them.

[undergroundpanther]

23. read my other post # 20 about a squirrel

and my indoor cats..

[undergroundpanther]

22. If a cat ate those

the cat would be dead.In a really horrible way too.

[wicket]

58. yeah, we tried to tell our landlord that, but she would have none of that

"It's the cats! The damn cats!"

:rofl:

[pitohui]

13. why are people so stupid indeed?

it is clear that you do not know anything about the natural world around you and your post is truly astonishing in its ignorance

for starters, pampered pet cats do not kill dangerous rats -- they kill the baby birds who are just learning to fly

by the way "falling" out of the nest is a natural part of the fledgling process, in north america most baby birds leave the nest and THEN learn how to fly up, this was a safe and natural way to do things because there were no house cats present in north america when our songbirds evolved

house cats, like all predators, seek easy prey not challenging prey -- and they choose to pursue native songbirds, ESPECIALLY those fledglings that you blame for "falling" out of their nests

house cats do not have any effect on the population of roof rats, norway rats, and other dangerous rats, and it is silly to claim they do

they WILL kill some of the smaller, endangered rodents but quite likely most of those have been killed off in your neighborhood anyway

your anger at the sharp-shinned hawk, a natural and native predator, for killing a pigeon, an abundant introduced bird not native to north america, is not germane to the discussion of the dangers of feral/outdoor cats either way

sharp-shinned hawks are part of the natural world

unless you're posting from north africa, then house cats are NOT and do not belong outdoors

the world would be a better place if people educated themselves before having an opinion

your cats belong indoors and if found outdoors, they should be removed to an animal shelter to be either adopted by a more responsible owner or else depopulated

we either care about the natural world or we don't...in the end, most people really don't if it inconveniences them even a little bit...sad really

it is hilarious to read someone posting about others being used to "sanitized living" when it's clear that poster has no idea what the outdoors really is

[undergroundpanther]

17. I have seen rats

taken down by "pampered" cats..for SPORT.
Also feral cat colonies do take down rats for sport.
Yes cats are predators,and they eat a few birds yes, but also they eat rats ,squirrels and any other small prey they can try to catch and if they are well fed they kill to kill because they are predators and that is how they survive and they keep themselves sharp(not all cats do) but many do, any cat owner can tell you a cat needs time to tear around the house at top speed and time to attack a feather duster that simulates prey Why?.Because cats hunt.

Look,I didn't make the world this way.I think nature is sick,and whatever causes this world to operate the way it does is ghastly evil. But I do not take it out on the cats or the baby birds.I hate nature and I hate this world the way it forces life to prey upon life and die anyway..

However if you want to talk about destructive animals ,and problems dished to the vulnerable animals killing them en masse,humans are worst predators and vermin around..Cell phone towers kill more birds than cats.
Do you know how many birds are killed each year by cell phone towers and TV towers?

The answer: 44 million birds.
http://www.votelink.com/node/104
Just go walk to the base of one.In the grass it's ringed with dead birds.
Humans can't even stop human bullies from killing vulnerable humans,so what the fuck are we trying to"master nature" for.We are killing life on this planet with our"conveniences" ands creating problems where there are none..

[hedgehog]

27. So, you maintain that there were no natural predators for flightless

baby birds before cats were brought to the Western Hemisphere? I somehow suspect that you are in error there.

I also suspect that loss of habitat has far more to do with the fall in bird populations than cats.

I live in the country and support far more birds than my cats have ever killed. I also would be overrun with rats and mice in the bouse if it weren't for the cats. I depend on them to keep the house rodent free.

[undergroundpanther]

32. No there were always predators for vulnerable creatures

Be they birds or any other,prey.

Bird lovers fail to realize owls and hawks will kill kittens as prey too.

The main killer of birds are civilized humans our global warming and technology kills them.

[alarimer]

28. There was a study in England regarding pet cats and animals

The owners kept diaries of what their cats killed. Of what they saw them bring back anyway. The number was fairly high but mostly consisted of birds and small mammal, not too many rats as I recall.
This article mentions a study from Wisconsin that indicates and estimated 40 million birds each year. And this was one study in one state. I don't know if the number is just from domestic cats that are allowed out or from feral cats too.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fwt/back_issues/december98/cats.html

..Originally domesticated from an ancestral wild cat of Europe and Africa, cats are now considered a separate species (Felis catus). Though not legally classified as such, the domestic free-ranging cat is actually a harmful exotic species, like a zebra mussel with name tags.

The cuddly kitty that provides companionship indoors transforms into a ferocious feline hunter when it gets outside. UW studies show that the diet of free-ranging domestic cats is composed of 70 percent small mammals (predominantly mice and ground squirrels), 20 percent birds, and 10 percent other animals.

It's the bird kill that particularly concerns Joan Galli, a DNR nongame wildlife specialist. The most recent UW research suggests that the estimated 1 million to 2 million free-ranging rural cats in Wisconsin kill roughly 40 million birds each year. Galli and other Minnesota wildlife officials believe that the number here is likely comparable.

"Everything we know about the Wisconsin studies suggests that at least that many cats are doing the same amount of harm to birds in Minnesota," says Galli. "I think most people don't realize just what kind of damage domestic cats are doing to wildlife, particularly birds."

[undergroundpanther]

37. Did this person

check to see if the bird was fresh, did they check to see if the same cat really killed it, cats will take another cats catch,? Autopsies? I mean the bird could be dying from a lot of other things, illness, poison, injuries prior to the cat catching it and the cat seeing easy prey took the sick bird that was dying anyway.Did this study take into account bird parasites and other illness that could be making the bird already dying?
A real study would have taken this into account and not just blamed the cats.

More birds die from human activities and other causes than cats can kill.

Powerlines
http://www.ucsc.edu/currents/01-02/05-27/birds.html
Wind turbines
http://www.awea.org/faq/sagrillo/swbirds.html
Cell towers
http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/2000/feb00/birdtower.htm
Mass deaths
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21038378-421,00.html
Pesticides
http://www.panna.org/resources/gpc/gpc_200205.12.1.22.dv.html
protozoal parasites
http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/diseases/vetsurveillance/species/wildlife/gardenbirds.htm

[alarimer]

38. There were no details about the WI study, so I don't know how it was done.

Cats DO kill millions of animals every year. That is established scientific FACT and I am sorry if cat owners cannot handle the truth. Feral cats need to be humanely destroyed. They are introduced, exotic species (like feral pigs, goats and dogs) that are extremely destructive to ecological systems. In Hawaii, for example, several birds are endangered because of depredations by feral cats.

http://www.abcbirds.org/cats/states/hawaii_intro.htm

[JanMichael]

33. OUR cat has never stepped foot outdoors. Read the post.

And where in the world did you find any "angry" word about a sharp shinned hawk? My wife has been bird watching for 23 years...I don't think she was pissed about the hawk.

The baby birds that fell out of the nests that we find dead the Spring are NOT damaged by cats. They are dead from falling from a tree...unless they saw a cat and had a heart attack. Not a mark on them. Spare the hell out of me.

[undergroundpanther]

35. You know you are right

I found dead baby birds,no signs of being chewed more often than not. I rescued a baby starling in pins,he grew to be a handsome bird and released him into the wild. And I have three cats that don't go out without a leash.

[Solon]

43. Where do you get your information?

Birds are easier to catch than rodents? Where the fuck did you get that info from. A domestic cat's live animal diet consists of about 20% of birds, most that fell out of nests, I'll give you that, but guess what, THEY WOULD HAVE DIED ANYWAYS, they fell out of a next before learning how to fly, most die of exposure or other predators. The other 80% of the cat's diet is composed of almost entirely of rodents. Its estimated that domestic and feral cats account for killing off about a BILLION rats per year in the United States alone. Think about that a moment.

[shireen]

51. not quite right ...

A domestic cat's live animal diet consists of about 20% of birds, most that fell out of nests, I'll give you that, but guess what, THEY WOULD HAVE DIED ANYWAYS, they fell out of a next before learning how to fly, ...

Actually, that's not necessarily true. As another poster stated earlier, some baby birds, just before they fledge, will leave the nest. They will spend some time on the ground, usually not more than a day, and during that time will be watched and fed by parents. At work, I'm the "resident birdwatcher" and get calls from co-workers about abandoned baby birds every summer. Most of the time, they're just fine. Mom and dad are close-by, keeping an eye on them.

[KittyWampus]

46. my cat Felix has been averaging one rat/rabbit/vole/mouse a day lately. You don't know

what you are talking about. I suspect you hate cats.

BTW, when Trixie catches a bird, she rarely kills it. She brings it to me and drops it on the ground. I go to pick up what looks like a dead bird and the bird then flies away.

[wicket]

14. I live on a very busy street & have 2 six year old cats

Neither of them have ever set so much as a paw outside. I don't think they'd even know what to do if they got out.

[pitohui]

16. good for you, you are a caring and responsible owner

cats kept indoors can have a life expectancy of almost 20 years, one of my friends active in spay and neuter has had cats this long -- and some came to her in very poor health at the beginning

cats allowed to roam outdoors have a life expectancy around a couple of years and they also do much harm to the environment and our natural songbirds and small endangered rodents while they're at it

[wicket]

56. Thank-you

:hug:

[undergroundpanther]

20. My cats are indoor cats

And I was awakened to my three never had a paw outside unless they were leashed,indoor cats chasing a squirrel that had gotten into my apartment,I saw them chase the squirrel into my closet to kill it.They were hot on his tail.

I intervened and tried to get the squirrel to go outside again,I put the cats in my bedroom... but still he refused to go out the door back to outside after 4 hours of baiting,waiting luring and chasing ,I called animal control and they said they couldn't help,I had no trap,couldn't afford one, wasn't gonna leave the house with a freaking out squirrel running amok,So I had to kill it.I cornered it in the kitchen and stabbed it with a knife.Squirrels have a really freaky growl.It died fast it didn't suffer.I took him off the blade,I was sad I had to kill him,I did rites for him,later I dressed him and I had squirrel curry and later made his skin and fluffy tail into a cat toy.
If I kill something I don't waste it.

[havocmom]

25. Mine are too. And there is water, shelter from weather for the ferral ones.

I have no rodent problems either. ;)

[undergroundpanther]

29. I haven't seen even a vole in my house.

Since my kitties came here.

Oh and the birds..this is what kills birds..Tell the cat haters the real deal..Save the cat colonies.

cell phone towers and TV towers… the number one bird killers in the U.S.

It seems that each cell phone and TV tower is required to have a red light on top of the tower. This makes sense from an air traffic safety point-of-view. Any pilot in the area can spot the red light and stay clear of the tower. With birds, however, it’s a different story.

When you mix foggy weather and migrating birds, what you get is a “moth to flame” effect. Worse, because the birds use fixed points like stars to navigate the fixed red dot becomes a navigational guide in foggy weather. Disoriented, the birds fly in circles around the light. A pile of 16,000 dead birds was found at the base of one cell phone tower after a single, foggy night.

Tell these idiots that say they want to kill cats because they kill birds the truth,Demand they not blame cats for this slaughter. If these old farts with their panties in a twist really wanna save birds lives,and they are really not a cat hater ass hat,talking shit, Tell, the ignorant to stop use of cell towers, tv towers and wind turbines. Humans cause most of the bird deaths, not cats.
http://www.votelink.com/node/104

[alarimer]

40. This is so ignorant

There are many, many studies showing that cats kill millions of birds, actually probably hundreds of millions of birds and other animals every single year.

http://www.napa.ufl.edu/2003news/feralcat.htm

With 4 million to 6 million unwanted animals - mostly cats - put to sleep each year in the United States, some people might consider it more humane to free the felines into the wild.

But as these cats forage for food and establish their territories, they kill more than a billion small mammals and birds each year, many of which are threatened or endangered, a University of Florida study shows.

Feral, or free-roaming, untamed cats pose a serious threat to endangered species nationwide as colonies of the wild cats have grown, largely because local groups provide funding and resources to sustain them, according to the UF study commissioned by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

In addition, although the study found those who release cats into the wild or support feral cat colonies are violating numerous federal and state wildlife protection laws, enforcement of the law in these cases has largely been ignored, according to the study presented in March at the Ninth Annual Public Interest Environmental Conference.

“The domestic cat species is not indigenous to Florida or anywhere else in North America. They impact native wildlife in three primary ways: predation, competition, and disease,” said Pamela Hatley, a law student at UF’s Levin College of Law who conducted the study. The results also will be published in the spring volume of the Journal of Land Use & Environmental Law.

“Cats are non-indigenous predators that compete in the wild with native predators like owls, hawks, fox, because cats, being subsidized by humans, outnumber these native predators and prey on the same small mammals and birds. Thus, cats reduce the prey base for native predators, making it difficult for native predators to feed themselves and their young,” she said.

In addition, these cats spread diseases - rabies in particular - that can kill wildlife. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that rabies is more than twice as common in cats as it is in dogs or cattle, and cats have the highest incidence of rabies among domestic species, she said.

The number of feral cats in the United States is estimated to be 40 million to 60 million, said Hatley, who works with the University’s Conservation Clinic, which was commissioned by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to determine the applicability of federal, state and local wildlife laws to the practice of releasing cats into the wild and maintaining feral cat colonies. Compounding the problem is that another 40 million domestic cats nationwide also roam outside, hunting and killing small animals.

For example, the Lower Florida Keys marsh rabbit is a federal endangered species with a remaining population of about 100 to 300. A 1999 study found free-roaming cats were responsible for 53 percent of the deaths of these rabbits in one year, and a 2002 study indicated the species could be extinct within two or three decades, Hatley said.

Cats also have been recognized as instinctive predators and a serious threat to the Key Largo cotton mouse, Key Largo woodrat, Choctawhatchee beach mouse, Perdido Key beach mouse, green sea turtle, roseate tern, least tern and Florida scrub jay, she said.

[havocmom]

42. and protect yards where children play

:eyes:

People are non-indigenous predators to most areas of the world too. But we insist on spreading out. Where we are, rodents flourish on our leavings but will also be a health problem.

Cats help keep balance.

Cat haters trying to hide behind science often make the mistake of cherry picking the data to suit their agendas too. But it doesn't change the fact that PEOPLE are here and rodents cause us a lot of trouble. Cats help cut down those numbers.

[KoKo]

49. Ummmm Florida Panther is almost Extinct and they would have been catching all that wildlife you

you are talking about...plus Bobcats roam all over the SouthEast US..but not in the numbers they used to and they are native also. Many predators are gone so feral cats in many ways are only replacing what was there in bigger numbers in many areas of our country.

We have two indoor cats and a yard filled with bird feeders. There are two "roaming cats" from neighbors who come and sit and occasionally will try to trap a bird. As of yet I've not found a dead bird body in my yard or feathers or parts of a bird. And, remember that not all cats are "good mousers, bird catchers." It takes some talent and in many cases it's the young or the old birds that are brought down...just as it was before we had populations of "imported cats."

I worry about folks who really hate cats... Because we went through a bad time where the cats were killed off and Bubonic Plague was the result. Then there was all that Salem Witch Trial stuff in the Colonial times in the US.

As a bird and animal lover...I think co-existence works well. And with so many groups doing the spay and neutering of the Feral Cats...it's not a problem in my suburban area or any of the other 10 places I've lived in my life. :shrug:

[wicket]

57. What does squirrel taste like?

n/t

[undergroundpanther]

62. rather gamey

Like dark meat on a goose. but drier, less greasy.if you don't soak it in milk overnight it can have a pretty strong taste. Squirrel is good in red curry or roasted and marianated with the herbs you would put on lamb..

[Sparkly]

39. You have a cat named Stinky?

That's funny, I have a husband named Stinky. (Stinky the Clown.)

[shireen]

53. Stinky rocks!

I really enjoy his posts. I may even have a crush on him; every time I see that clown face, my heart beats a little faster ..... :)

[begin_within]

48. Pick up the phone and

tell the homeowner's association to

[shireen]

52. cat vs. bird

As a long-time birdwatcher, I've seen this war waged on birding forums more times than I care to remember. The fundamental issue here is the impact of invasive species on our natural world. Feral cats, European Starlings and House Sparrows, and Norwegian rats, to name a few, are all introduced species that have had a significant impact on our native fauna. We will never get rid of them. The best we can do is control them. For feral cats, spay and neuter programs seem like the most practical and compassionate thing to do, and if you have an outdoor cat, a small bell attached to the collar will usually give prey ample time to make an escape. For rats, good sanitation is the key to keeping their numbers low. Starlings and House Sparrows have adapted well to urban environments, but are not as happy in forest habitats where most of our native birds thrive so we need to do what we can to protect remaining wildlife habitat.

[piedmont]

55. Cats kill native birds, lizards, snakes, small mammals, etc.

The best thing, like others have said, is to limit pets' unsupervised time outside and control feral populations. And I have never seen a cat kill or eat a rat in my life, though I've seen LOTS of other kills.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

60. That's how the black plague started - they got rid of all the cats.

They thought they were evil - tools of the devil.

[EFerrari]

61. Cats belong indoors where they are safe from traffic and bunchers. nt