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FYI - Ralph Nader guest tonite on TDS

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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:02 PM
Original message
FYI - Ralph Nader guest tonite on TDS
:)
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. OH MAN! I hope John tells himit's time to retire! n/t
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. I wish he would just disappear, what the hell is he up to now?
God, it's just un-REAL how much stupid CRAP the 24/7 Cable News idiots did on that poor Astronaut lady. :banghead:
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. they even dragged out a guy who lived down the corner from her
when they were kids :rofl:
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There is nothing wrong with Nader
if the Dems really wanted to stop third parties from spoiling, they could pass IRV voting. However, both major parties would rather keep all third parties as spoilers so that they can continue their virtual dictatorship.Libertarians have cost the GOP many elections as well..and they will not back IRV voting either. I have and will continue voting 3rd party whenI think they are the best candidate. If the Dems lose an election because of it...oh well. Maybe they should revamp the election process.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Keep voting 3rd party
That way it will guarantee a repuke victory and we will keep getting dumbass brainless presidents who will continue with wars and phucking everything up. Smart.....very smart.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Actually I voted
for Gore & Kerry. Yes, I will keep voting 3rd party. Maybe if the Dems lose enough elections they will realize that people don't want a two party dictatorship. If you are happy with it thats cool. I'm not.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. You think they pay any attention to what WE want?
Politicians do what THEY want. In all reality,we really don't have anyone who cares about us.Just look at all the protests and petitions we've done. Look what's happening now. Nothing. Bu$h and Dickhead Cheney will NEVER have to answer to all the crimes they have committed because they all cover up for each other. The people are screaming for impeachment,and the first thing Pelosi said after becoming speaker is "impeachment is off the table". So......the criminals will keep on committing crimes,the Dems will look the other way and WE will have to pay for it.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. exactly.
that is why I give financial and volunteer time to only a very few Democrats. The two party system is built to serve the same masters and cover for eachother. Our government will just keep getting worse if we are stuck between the two.
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buff2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. I quit donating my money
I don't have it to waste like that. It's a waste when you give them money and then they vote the other way.......the opposite of what you wanted. They all make me sick.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-08-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Why do you think that?
Can you explain further just exactly who the same masters are? What evidence do you have the parties are colluding to serve those masters?
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Clinton carried out
embargo on Iraq that killed hundreds of thousands, bombed Iraq, bombed Kosovo, passed NAFTA which is used to enslave 3rd world workers. LBJ got us into Vietnam, Truman dropped the only atomic bombs on civilians...no I don't think Dems are going to end war. You will need a different argument.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. huh?
:shrug:
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. it was a reply to post 6
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. he tried to blame 2000 on Election fraud and not himself
Maybe he should look at the New Hampshire vote:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/NH/
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. well the fact is
the Supreme Court DID give the election to Bush. Also, nearly 3 million people didn't vote Nader just to stick it to Gore. They felt Gore didn't represent them. Why should Americans have to vote for people who don't represent them? Why have elections?
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. thats the problem, they FELT.
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 11:28 PM by LSK
They did not bother to look at FACTS.

How many times do I get told that Kerry also was a joke but nobody could explain why except he voted for it before he voted against it??? Well assholes, if you researched it, you would know that Kerry voted for HIS AMENDMENT, but not the final bill which was DIFFERENT. Sorry about the rant but I keep thinking about this for some reason lately.

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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I am so glad
you are here to tell me the facts and TELL me who represents me. Thanks!
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I don't like the
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 11:31 PM by BayCityProgressive
lesser of two evils argument either. Really, every four years each of the candidates will jsut keep getting more "evil" and one will stay a little less so. There has to be accountability. We need a representative government with multiple parties and independants with IRV voting and campaign reform.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. How is John Kerry evil??
Or Al Gore???
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. "evil"
meaning you don't have much of any reason to vote for them except that you REALLY hate the other guy. Don't get me wrong, when I voted for both candidates they did take some stands I liked. However, I feel that I should be able to vote in an IRV system for a party that I feel most represents me. Both the Democrats And Republicans deny citizens that right because they know they would lose a ton fo their power if other parties had a fair shot.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. ok
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. My biggest problem with Nader is that he claimed there was no difference betwen Bush and Gore
Which is just plain dishonest.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Actually
I have his book "Crashing The Party". He states Gore was a "lesser" of two evils but that we shouldnt constantly have to choose the lesser. The two parties need to allow others to run equally. Everytime you vote for a "lesser" the evil goes further right and the lesser follows. We are trapped in a sliding scale to the right. I voted for Gore and Kerry but I don't blame greens for their losses. The two party corrupt system has GOT to stop.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. If Gore is a "lesser" evil then Bush is literally Satan
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 11:46 PM by Hippo_Tron
The two party system sucks but it's what we have and it's not going to change anytime soon. Despite the fact that some of Nader's criticisms of the Democrats are incredibly valid, the fact is that the Republicans are SO bad that you can't even measure them on the same scale as the Democrats.

President Gore may not have solved some of the big problems that we wanted him to but "President" Bush is literally destroying the country as we know it.

Nader is perfectly valid in calling Gore a "lesser evil" if he disagrees with Gore on that many issues but if he is going to frame the issue that way then he is being intellectually dishonest by not emphasizing just how much worse Bush is than Gore and making it seem that Gore is just a little bit better than Bush.


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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. My main problem is that
no matter how bad Bush or the GOP is, it is completely unethical for the two parties to lock everyone else out and keep a virtual dictatorship. If there was an IRV system, many moderate Republicans would be able to vote for a different party as well. This is why both parties will continue blocking voting reform until the people demand it.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-08-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. And you can agree with this crap today, with a straight face, non?
I am talking Gore and Bush - really - Gore the lesser evil? As opposed to whom? The saintly Nader paid by the GOP?
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-08-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. Nader said it didn't matter who won the election
E: You said during your campaign that it didn't really matter if Al Gore or George W. Bush won the election.
Nader: That's right.
http://www.emagazine.com/view/?696

Yeah Ralph, tell that to all the dead people in Iraq, NYC and New Orleans.

It matters. A lot.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. No Catwoman! Don't say the... Oh, too late. Here it comes. 250 posts of crap.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-08-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. Is yours number 1?
I need to know when to start counting the crap.

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-08-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Start right below me.
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