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Where the hell is Lt. General Kensinger? I want his ass brought in for questioning.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:14 PM
Original message
Where the hell is Lt. General Kensinger? I want his ass brought in for questioning.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Censured_general_evades_s...

Censured general evades subpoena to appear before Tillman hearing Michael Roston
Published: Wednesday August 1, 2007

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) revealed in a Wednesday hearing that Lieutenant General Philip Kensinger, who was censured Tuesday by the Army for deceiving investigators regarding the announcement of the death of Army Specialist Pat Tillman, has evaded a subpoena issued by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"General Kensinger refused to appear today," Chairman Waxman said in his opening statement. "His attorney informed the committee that General Kensinger would not testify voluntarily, and if issued a subpoena would seek to evade service. The committee did issue a subpoena to General Kensinger earlier this week, but US Marshals have been unable to locate or serve him."
<snip>

Where the hell IS THIS COWARD? I want him found. I'm going to post a thread about this until I hear that the SOB has been arrested for contempt. This is unacceptable. Hell, it's unbelievable. This is a Lt. General of the U.S. military, dammit!

Who the hell KILLED Tillman? Why didn't they ask that basic question during the hearing? Geesh. We don't even know who pulled the trigger. I thought Waxman had this handled. Does anyone know if our U.S. Marshals are out looking for this piece of shit?
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Are there any good hearings scheduled during the "break"?
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't think so. I just want to know where this f*cking coward is.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nobody asked the question. If it was "friendly fire" then
there is a limited pool of people who could have pulled the trigger. And given the fog of war, that person would have been forgiven.

But, they will never ask this question because it wasn't effen "friendly fire", it was murder.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. How 'bout, "If there was no incoming fire, at whom was the 'friend' firing?"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. The cover is, the group got divided and wound up shooting
at each other. And that's bullshit.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
36. No actually the cover story sounds very plausible
At least the version of it that The New Yorker magazine reported.

The platoon that Tillman was assigned to was in a narrow canyon. Supposedly he and the men with him were fired upon by some Taliban who were at a higher elevation, probably on a cliff wall.

Tillman supposedly asked his commander if he could not dash up some rocks and position himself from a spot much closer and similar in elevation to the spot where the Enemy warriors were engaged.

Now just as a cover story this sounds plausible. Tillman is being reported to have acted as someone with a great deal of initiative would act. Then since he now is at the same elevation (roughly) that the enemy who are firing on the men are at, and because he is silhouetted so that his uniform details cannot be made out, he is shot at. By his own men. Who see him as being part of the group of people that he himself had gone up to shoot at.

I'm not saying that you have to believe this version. I am not saying I believe this version. But while reading the article, before all this speculation came up, it was not all that difficult to decide that this was a simple case of Tillman (and his CO) having made the poor judgement of not realizing that once he separated out from the platoon, that he could be mistaken for the enemy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #36
70. Right -- and it falls apart when we learn the distance between
himself and the shooter. I agree. The propagandists get more skilled all the time.
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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. Never thought of that, Great point!
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. AWOL.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Rep. Waxman will resume the Hearings in Sept.
Maybe Sept. 15th. At that time we shall see if the US Marshals will bring this Gen. in to testify.
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Won't be considered AWOL, if he is following his Commander-In-Chief's order.
Executive privelege.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. He is retired...he can not be AWOL:
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #27
74. He Is Retired... And He Is A COWARD !!!
And disgraces his uniform, and his years of service.

:puke:
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good question Fooj and thanks for the post - I had no idea he skipped bail.
In so many words.....

Never have seen so many individuals get away with so much.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well...
what to say....


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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R..yes where is he? i want to know as well!!! eom
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. If the Army is hiding him, wouldn't that be aiding and abetting? Kick and Recommend! nt
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. The Army punished him, I doubt they are hiding him
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Oh, I don't know about that. They knocked him down a star....
......but that doesn't mean they want him squealing.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. dunno, that would tend to piss a guy off. He also retired, so the Army would not know where he is
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 07:08 PM by Solo_in_MD
just what his home of record is and where to direct deposit the retirement checks.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. Did he skip the country?
I mean, is he serving overseas all of a sudden, magically needed in Iraq? That I could see as the Administration's way to avoid dealing with the truth.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Nope. It's even worse than that.
He REFUSED to appear and then (through his lawyer) claimed a "business trip"...

Newsflash, Lt. Gen.!!! It's called CONTEMPT.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Not if he wasn't served
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #22
56. 'Green Zone'
Looks like his "business trip" is likely to the 'Green Zone'. His "business" seems to be puting more people in Iraq. I would imagine the Army knows his location.

See post #55
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #56
66. Which begs the question, can US Marshals get to the geen zone
All the noise aside, the US Marshalls should be notified when he returns to the US (assuming he is out of the country). From there it should be straight forward.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #66
69. Hard to know if it will be "straight forward"
as "if issued a subpoena would seek to evade service".

"noise"? The noise is about a three star general seeking to evade a congressional subpoena. At this moment, it is not illegal, but it SUCKS. He's just another in a long line of assholes who either won't testify or lie though their teeth or "don't recall". He has been found and determined to be a liar. Let him show up, testify truthfully and completely. Let him testify publicly and see if "his version" is credible. How would that be? It would beat skulking around avoiding testimony to the representatives of the people he once served (and now profits from).
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. He is retired
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. and then what?
so we find out the bushies are behind it - who the hell is going to stop them?

rubberstamping republics? roll-over democrats?

it's all swing and no bat
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. and then what?
all bush has to do mutter terra, and the freaking dems cave in - so do really expect anything to happen, other than more hearings?

we see alot of bats swinging in the dugout, but no one is stepping up to the plate
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. Way To Reflect HONOR General!
What's the saying? How does it go?

DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY?

Is that right?

-Hoot
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. What??!!
How the heck could this be possible?

How could US marshals be unable to locate this guy?

Didn't this guy swear an oath to defend the constitution
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. They need to GPS his phone!
Hell, if we're all getting spied on, why leave him out?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. Stan Goff's latest on the Tillman fratricide
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Thanks for the link. EXCELLENT read!
<snip>
The Congressional Committee investigating Pats death, a committee that fawned all over Donald Rumsfeld, Richard Meyers, and John Abazaid on August 1st needs to take note. Im angry, so Im saying it. Sometimes invective is appropriate.

Most members of that Committee havent the ethical sense to qualify for wiping Pats ass. Instead they kissed Donald Rumsfelds, Richard Meyers, and John Abazaids. Ill be coming back to this shameful and anemic display. Its emblematic of not just Congress, but in particular of Democrats who continue to tip-toe around anything to do with the war as if theyre walking through a rattlesnake pit.

Pat was right to be suspicious of fame.

This craven display by Congressional Democrats and Republicans alike was just the last entry in a growing archive of opportunism that circles around fame like a vulture over a corpse.

Fame in the wrong circumstances can throw up a carrion scent like a thick fog. The scavengers of American political life elected officials and candidates, crackpot polemicists, and the profit-press chase the smell along the shifting winds.

That same so-called press that has blood all over its hands for the war in Iraq today was on exhibition again with the recent, and salaciously irresponsible, reporting excised from context on a few lines from thousands of pages of documents, igniting the imaginations of every conspiracy-buff in the nation. Im talking about the Associated Press story in late July that suggested Pat was fragged.
<snip>

Wow. This is one, detailed, informative piece. Thanks again!
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. "has evaded a subpoena issued by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform"
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 04:24 PM by troubleinwinter
"Kensinger, who retired in February 2006...monthly retirement pay of $9,400... was away on business travel. In his testimony in December, Kensinger said he is a consultant for four firms."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6819644...

I'd like to know what "four firms".

They must find him now and hold him behind bars until Waxman's hearings reconvene after vacation.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. "Business travel."
:puke:
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. On what charge? He has done illegal at this time
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #29
54. Contempt of Congress
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. Can't be contempt until he is severd and does not appear
avoiding service is not contempt
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Lt. General Philip Kensinger, Jr. (Ret) - Chief Operating Officer, Oak Grove Technologies
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 08:18 PM by troubleinwinter
Kensinger seems to be more than "a consultant". He is CEO for a company with CIA, DOJ, DIA & NSA as clients and "contract vehicles feature pre-negotiated terms and conditions to support programs within the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security".

Lt. General Philip Kensinger, Jr. (Ret) - Chief Operating Officer

Lt. Gen. Kensinger, the former commander of the U.S. Army Special Operations Command, has over 36 years of service in the Army. Kensinger's military service began June 1966 when he reported to West Point as a seventeen-year-old cadet. His assignments included tours with the 3rd Armor Division, 3rd, 5th and 7th Special Forces Groups (Airborne) and the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault).

His general officer assignments included: commander, Special Operations Command Central; deputy commanding general and chief of staff, U.S. Army Special Operations Command; and commanding general, U.S. Army South.

Kensinger's awards and decorations include the Distinguished Service Medal, the Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit, the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, the Meritorious Service Medal, the Joint Service Commendation Medal, the Army Commendation Medal, the Joint Service Achievement Medal, the Army Achievement Medal, the Army Aviator Badge, the Army Staff Identification Badge, the Combat Infantryman Badge, the Expert Infantryman Badge, the Master Parachutist Badge, the Military Free Fall Parachutist Badge, the Special Operations Diver Badge, the Pathfinder Badge, the Air Assault Badge, the Ranger Tab and the Special Forces Tab.

His military career ended with USASOC after being in command for 40 of the 50 months since Sept. 11. During Kensinger's command, USASOC transformed into a 21st Century fighting force the Army is now replicating.

Lt. Gen. Kensinger resides in North Carolina with his wife Greta.


CLIENTS

Oak Grove has a large client base across the federal civilian, defense, and homeland security agencies. We tailor our business approach to the organizational needs and objectives of each agency. We also have a growing number of commercial clients. Our number one goal is to help our clients improve their operations.

FEDERAL
Central Intelligence Agency
Defense Intelligence Agency
Defense Manpower Data Center
Department of Justice
Department of Veterans Affairs
Environmental Protection Agency
National Security Agency

OSD SADBU
US Army

USSOCOM
309th Military Intelligence Battalion

US Army National Guard
Alabama
North Carolina

COMMERCIAL
Draper Laboratory
Cisco Systems
Integrian


Oak Grove Technologies offers a wide a array of contract vehicles that make it easy for you to do business with us. These contract vehicles feature pre-negotiated terms and conditions to support programs within the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security, and several civil government agencies. In addition to our GSA 70 Schedule, Oak Grove is a prime or subcontractor on numerous indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (ID/IQ) vehicles and blanket purchase agreements (BPA).

GSA Schedule 70 (GS-35F-0315P)
The GSA 70 schedule allows our government customers to order IT services at predetermined rates in areas such as systems development, programming, data conversion, and network management. Learn more.

VETS GWAC
The Veterans Technology Services (VETS) Governmentwide Acquisition Contract (GWAC) is a small business set-aside contract for service-disabled veteran-owned (SDVO) small technology firms. VETS presents a new way for federal agencies to achieve small business goals through purchase of Information Technology solutions from small businesses owned by services-disabled veterans. Oak Grove is proud to be part of Vision Technologies' team on this contract vehicle. Learn more.

Live Training Program
This contract provides lifecycle support for tactical engagement and range training devices and systems for the US Army's Program Executive Office for Simulation, Training, and Instrumentation (PEO STRI). Oak Grove is a subcontractor to Raytheon on this contract.

DHS EAGLE
The Department of Homeland Security EAGLE (Enterprise Acquisition Gateway for Leading Edge Solutions) is an ID/IQ contract that covers services in several areas including infrastructure engineering design, implementation and integration, operations and maintenance, and software design. Oak Grove is subcontractor to SAIC and SRA on this contract. Learn more.

OPTARSS I
OPTARSS I (Operations, Planning, Training and Resource Support Services) is an ID/IQ vehicle that provides support to FORSCOM missions. Oak Grove is a subcontractor to SAIC. Learn more.

SeaPort-e
SeaPort-e is a US Navy contracting vehicle that permits all US Navy agencies to order engineering services, including R&D, from select companies on a cost-reimbursement, fixed-price, or cost-only basis. Oak Grove is a prime partner on this vehicle. Learn more.

EPM at NSA
EPM (Enterprise Program Management) is an ID/IQ contract that provides consulting support for various program management functions and assists government program managers in developing program documentation, creating program schedules, and tracking program status. Oak Grove is a subcontractor to L-3 Titan Group on this contract.

TIPSS-3
TIPSS-3 (Total Information Processing Support Services) is an ID/IQ contract that provides a full range of information processing services for the IRS, Department of the Treasury, Treasury Bureaus, and other federal agencies. Oak Grove is a subcontractor to SAIC on this effort. Learn more.

DIESCON 3
DIESCON 3 is a BPA that is operated by the Defense Intelligence Agency and provides opportunities for agencies to order intelligence services. Oak Grove is on the BAE Systems team on this contract vehicle.

EITC
The Enterprise Information Technology Contract (EITC) covers services that support USSOCOM IT planning, operations, management, and maintenance. Oak Grove is a subcontractor to L-3 Titan Group on this vehicle.

NGA SMARTS
NGA SMARTS (National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency Support to Management and Resources for Technical Services) is a program that awards ID/IQ contracts to provide web design services, management consultation, program and project support, and other management services. Oak Grove is a subcontractor to SAIC.

http://www.oakgrovetech.com/aboutus.htm

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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Its a Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small Business (SDVOSB)
Not sure what NAICS code they operate under, but they are not exactly Blackwater...look more like one of the many companies set up to take advantage of Federal Gov set aside requriements. Two points for using them, disabled service vet & small business

If anyone cares, the entire entire SBA table is here: http://www.sba.gov/idc/groups/public/documents/sba_home...
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. No one said they were "exactly Blackwater".
To be considered a Service Disabled Veteran you must have a letter from the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), or your discharge paper from the branch of service you were in, stating that you have a service connected disability rating ranging from 0 to 100% disability.

Is there a minimum disability rating to be considered Service Disabled?
According to Veterans Affairs, Public Law 106-50, the Veterans Entrepreneurship and Small Business Development Act of 1999, does not require any minimum disability rating. A veteran with a zero percent-rating letter is eligible to self-represent as a Service Disabled Veteran for Federal contracting purposes.


I used to work in the field of qualifying for govenment contracts, and am familiar with minority, disadvantaged, women-owned, etc., and am familiar with a wife establishing "a business" in order to qualify for women-owned, veterans "self-representing" as "disabled" in order to qualify/gain advantage for contracts.

Can you find WHO owns this business? I can't.

The fact that the firm is SDVOSB qualified is meaningless.


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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Did not mean to offend, but given the heat being generated
someone not familiar with the contract types you posted would have been making that comparision soon enough. There are not many of us here who have worked Fed and DoD contracts.

Not sure. Corporation has to be registered, I would start there. It clearly existed before he retired, so I assume he was brought in for his contacts. Spec Ops 3 star for this size of operation does seem a little overpowering.



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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. Maybe Oak Grove has resemblance to Blackwater after all...
Here are a few of the employment opportunities they have available in Iraq:

Counterintelligence Agent - Iraq

Oak Grove Technologies is seeking motivated, Military Occupational specialty (MOS) qualified counterintelligence agents for positions in various locations throughout Iraq.

Requirements
-Qualified applicants must be MOS qualified as a counterintelligence agent (97B, 351B, or civilian/joint service equivalents)
-Minimum of 5 years of trained counterintelligence agent experience
-Knowledge of the Arabic language and culture are desired
-Applicants must be knowledgeable of Army/Joint counterintelligence procedures and data processing systems such as CHIMs and SIPRNET search engines
-Current Secret Clearance required

Security Clearance is Required


Intelligence Analyst - Iraq

Oak Grove Technologies is seeking motivated, Military Occupational specialty (MOS) qualified Intelligence Analysts for positions in various locations throughout Iraq.

Requirements
-Qualified applicants must be MOS qualified as an Intelligence Analyst (96B/350B/351 Series/97 Series equivalents)

-Minimum of 4 years of analytical experience within DoD or equivalent Government agencies, either all source or HUMINT
-Middle East and CT experience desired

-Strong automation and database skills required, including intelligence analytical applications

-Minimum Associate's Degree required

-Current Top Secret/SCI required

Security Clearance is Required


Assistant Special Security Officer - Iraq

Oak Grove Technologies is seeking highly motivated Assistant Special Security Officers (ASSO) in support of Multi-National Forces Iraq, in Baghdad, Iraq.

Requirements
- Qualified applicants must have earned a minimum of an Associates degree

- Applicants must have 3 or more years experience in compartmented programs in DoD, U.S. Intelligence Community, or supporting U.S. contractors

- Experience in security training or security inspections is highly desirable.

- Solid and varied experience in planning/accrediting facilities in accordance with the DCID 1/21 standard is required

- The position requires a thorough familiarity with all security clearance processes

- Applicants must have a working knowledge of security policies and procedures to include NISPOM, NISPOM Supplement, DCIDs, and DIA M-1 Manual

- Current Top Secret/SCI required with continued eligibility for SCI access upon award of contract

Security Clearance is Required


Special Advisor - Iraq

Oak Grove Technologies is seeking highly qualified personnel for a Special Advisor position in support of the Iraqi Advisor Task Force (IQATF) in various locations of Iraq.

Requirements
- Special Advisor (SA) will understand both American and Iraqi cultures

- SA must be open-minded and committed to working towards a free and democratic Iraq and willing to support the efforts of U.S. military forces in Iraq

- SA will possess significant tribal, political, religious, business and/or military connections in Iraq, Be able to establish community and business contacts in the area of operations, and preferably possess established ties within the area of operations

- SA must possess subject matter expertise and tribal, political, religious, business and/or military connections in Iraq that are of specific value to the U.S. Government and Coalition Forces.

- SA must possess established ties to key figures in Iraqi society relevant to the required area of expertise, and the ability to foster additional ties that aid and assist Coalition Forces in carrying out their objectives

- SA must possess a minimum of seven (7) years work experience relevant to the particular area of expertise required. This must include at least two (2) years of relevant work experience in Iraq itself. For Advisors in professional fields, only relevant employment (not schooling) will count toward meeting this requirement.

- SA must be able to communicate fluently in both English, Arabic, and Kurdish or other local dialects where assigned, verbally and in writing, without the aid of translation software, conduct real-time and accurate interpretations of on-going conversations, both in English and Arabic and/or applicable local dialects

- SA must possess a minimum of five (5) years experience interacting in predominantly Iraqi communities as an adult. This may include college education, refugee camp time, and/or work in any field of endeavor, and must include at least two years of experience in Iraq itself

- Must possess excellent interpersonal communications skills to effectively liaise with senior Iraqi and Coalition Force personnel

- SA must be a U.S. citizen who was born in Iraq

- SA must possess at a minimum a US Interim SECRET security clearance

Security Clearance is Required






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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #55
65. Good find, intell and secuirty people, but no armed mercs
FWIW more and more of such ads are making the rounds. Even with big bucks they are having a hard time finding people to fill non combatant slots
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #46
57. I can't find a 'small business' NAICS code for COUNTERINTELLIGENCE and SECURITY in IRAQ
Edited on Tue Aug-07-07 05:23 AM by troubleinwinter
'small business' is relative. I got a $7M fed contract while having $36M open on the books as a 'small business'. But that was to convert an old abandoned prison facility to a culinary training center for underprivileged youth (pre- bush admin). I can't imagine what size contracts for 'counterintelligence' and 'security' in Iraq would qualify as a "small business".

(See post #55)
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #57
67. The current NACIS list is from 2002, and was developed earlier, give the SBA a little time to catch
up and I am sure those and other *new* categories will appear
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SaveAmerica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Didn't you hear? None of them have to be held accountable for
anything if they don't want to.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
25. Somehow I doubt any personal actions you take are going to change anything in this scenario
Edited on Mon Aug-06-07 06:24 PM by Solo_in_MD
This is sort of old news, and was well discussed last week, here and elsewhere

- The committee wanted to talk to the RETIRED general
- He declined to do so vountarily
- He said he would avoid a subpeona and had other commitments out of the
country (legal but tacky) and has been successful so far with that approach
- The House is in recess
- There will have to be a new subpeona issued when the commitee reconvenes

And the dance will begin again...His full statement claims he had no direct knowledge and would not have been in a position to cover things up. Obviously the Army did not buy it, but that is his story and he is clearly sticking to it. His actions to date are perfectly legal. If Waxman gets stupid, he could end up giving the general a platform and not getting any of the soundbites he, Leahy and others seek.




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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
50. Personal actions? What's with your "projecting"?
Old news? Says who? I didn't realize Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Kensinger had been found.

Bottom line: He's evading Congress. Why?

Did Kensinger VIOLATE the MILITARY CODE OF JUSTICE?
http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid...

<snip>
Geren briefed Rep. Mike Honda, D-Calif., Tuesday morning and told the congressman that Kensinger lied to military investigators on multiple occasions to protect himself, according to Daniel Kohns, Hondas spokesman.

Kensinger was head of Army special operations when Tillman was killed. Kensinger retired in February 2006.

Honda, a Democrat who represents the area where Tillman grew up, believes "there are lingering questions hanging over this that point to the possibility of it going broader and higher," Kohns said.
<snip>

And this:

<snip>
A review of the aftermath of Tillmans death by the Pentagon inspector general _ one of more than half a dozen investigations so far _ found "compelling evidence that Kensinger learned of suspected fratricide well before the memorial service and provided misleading testimony" on that issue. That misrepresentation, the report said, could constitute a "false official statement," a violation of the Military Code of Justice.
<snip>

If this is true, that SOB LIED to the ENTIRE country. What makes you think he wouldn't "lie" in his statement? Geesh...

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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kicking to keep this up, another important post today that should not be lost.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Why...it was discussed here and elsewhere last week
and most people do not seem to realize that the guy in question is retired...shame on Raw Story for not getting that right
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #33
53. Who gives a crap if he's retired?
Edited on Tue Aug-07-07 02:32 AM by fooj
He may have violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice when he was ACTIVE duty. That's what matters.

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809<890>.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #53
62. My read of the thread indicated that many of the posters thought he was on active duty and ducking
Congress. Army hiding him and all that. If that was true, some of their rage was justified.


There is no UCMJ issue here. Congress can not convene an Article 32.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. Some posters were talking about him being AWOL...
which you can not be if retired.

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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
77. Just because it was discussed last week on du does not mean that I or others saw it
or were even aware, perhaps what you should be worrying about more is why if what he knows doesn't really matter why not just come foward, being retired means nothing as I am sure you are well aware of.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
31. Haven't you heard? Republicans get a SPECIAL EXEMPTION
from obeying ANY laws.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
32. Shouldn't MSM be looking for him
Suppose he disappeared?
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
35. can a general do that?
can't he be court martialed or something??
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. He is retired, and as done nothing illegal in avoiding a subpeona
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. what?
what difference does being retired make? If i got a summons, d'ya think they'd give me a pass if i were retired? EVERYONE/ANYONE can be held in contempt if they don't respond to a subpoena... isn't that part of the rule of law?

:shrug:


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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. He's on the run, evidently.
"if issued a subpoena would seek to evade service" He hasn't been served, he's hiding from being served. So much for honor to country.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. He has not been served with the subpeona, so he is not in contempt
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. He has not been served, because he chooses to "EVADE service"
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-06-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Presumably true, but its still not contempt
I am not really defending him, but the article was so poorly written that many thought he was on active duty, which he is not. The resultant anger was appropriate, though uncalled for.

What we have instead is a person who though retired, was punished and disgraced by the Army. That he chooses not to be cooperative under those circumstances in not surprising. His version of events is not being accepted by anyone, why should he voluntarily submit to a public scourging?

I also believe that the commitee was well aware of this up front, and even though many other generals did show up, they are grandstanding on this one. I don't trust long term pols, even those who seem to be like mined with DU...seen too many of them turn in to self serving weasels.

As for evading service...its almost an American tradition. Every nasty divorce, landlord/tennat, or small lawsuit has service issues. Unlike the courts, Congress has not used alternative service methods in the past.

Also testifying before Congress is very different than court. You have to submit your testimony ahead of time, travel on your own dime, and be respectful...I am not sure if I would do all of the above myself.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. The US Marshals were SENT after him to SERVE him with a subpoena.
why should he voluntarily submit to a public scourging?

WTF? Since when does this become his choice? This isn't about a "nasty divorce" or some "small lawsuit". Violation of the Military Code of Justice is NOT "almost an American tradition." Evading service is NOT an American tradition. What utter bullshit.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. And until they serve him, he is not under any obligatgion to appear before the committee
There is no UCMJ issue here. Congress can not convene an Article 32 hearing.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
63. And until they serve him, any apearance by him is voluntary
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #45
68. "travel on your own dime"


That oughta be a challenge for him to get to Washington DC.... He is CEO of a firm with two offices, one in S.C. and a Washington DC office.

One might think he spends some time in DC anyway, considering his firm provides counterintelligence and security in Iraq, and some clients are:

Central Intelligence Agency
Defense Intelligence Agency
Department of Justice
Department of Defence
United States Special Operations Command
Department of Homeland Security
IRS
Department of the Treasury

"other generals did show up"... but this one evades doing so. "self serving weasels"... how is this one not so in evading the US Congress?

What's your opinion as to what he will do when the US Marshalls do eventually find and serve him... will he abide by the subpoena or will he go on the lam again?

Any idea what three other "firms" he "consults" for? Or maybe it's four, as being a CEO is not the same as being a consultant.



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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #68
80. My view of the end game is that this will fizzle out
What's your opinion as to what he will do when the US Marshalls do eventually find and serve him... will he abide by the subpoena or will he go on the lam again?


Its actually fairly easy to predict...

- He will eventually get served. The Congress can not let the evasion be successful, since it would inspire others.
- He will comply, including provide the written testimony ahead of time as required.
- The committee staffers will review it and a decision will be made:

A: he will be notified that his written testimony is sufficient, and it may or may not be made part of the congressional record
B: He will be notified to appear in person, at which time he will provide additional verbal testimony and answer any questions the committee members may ask.

The real driver here is if witness decides to be combative. That will most likely be known by the committee staffers ahead of time. Pols will not risk being made a fool of on C-SPAN which is fairly easy to do in some of the back and forth exchanges. I am not clear if the Chair can edit things or have them not covered. It is not contempt of congress to state or imply that the member asking the question has his head up his ass, has an agenda, or is generally a buffoon, if its worded correctly. No pol will want that You Tube...

The real investigation,whatever it is going to be, has already happened. Its been going on behind the scenes via the staffers. The hearings are just show boating. Nothing new will emerge, no great revelations, no drama, just standard DC dance. If anyone thinks televised hearings are a real search for truth, they are clearly deluded.

My nickel is that it will be option A, and get no press coverage whatsoever. Kensinger really has nothing to lose. He is already disgraced, and as long as he chooses his words carefully can embarrass the committee members while giving no more information than is already available. No thinking pol will take that chance.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. Apparently, he wasn't disgraced enough.
He still seems to be able and willing to line his pockets with their filthy money as the CEO of a company that provides counter-intelligence and security to Iraq. He's a privateer devoid of any honor or integrity.

How dare this SOB behave with such callous disregard for truth? How dare he? And, for that matter, how dare YOU imply that the only reasoning for these Tillman hearings is for "sound bites" and "news coverage". Screw that bullshit. Perhaps if the military and this administration told the truth from the beginning (or if the Lt. Gen. would speak the truth NOW) Mrs. Tillman wouldn't have to endure these endless lies and contortions from the very people her son was HONORABLY serving.

Go away.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I dare state that these hearing are showboating based on historical example and precedent
Edited on Wed Aug-08-07 08:18 PM by Solo_in_MD
Has there ever been a televised hearing that brought heretofore unknown information from a witness? I suggest you read up on the current process required to testify before Congress before you answer.

Indeed Mrs Tillman and all of America should know the truth, but there is no possibility it will come from witness testimony in public Congressional hearings.



I note that you do not dispute my scenarios and proposed outcome.

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #87
90. And I SUGGEST that you stop with your condescending blather...
Edited on Wed Aug-08-07 09:13 PM by fooj
It's offensive and rude.

I HAVE done my research. You're not interested in authentic research though, are you? This is what you advocate:

"as long as he chooses his words carefully can embarrass the committee members"

That's what's important, eh? Dazzle 'em and embarrass them with "carefully" chosen verbage. Interesting. In my neck of the woods, we refer to that as grandstanding and bullshit.

Since this is part of your prediction as to what the Lt. Gen. could or should do, where does the TRUTH fit in?

Nevermind.


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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. I won't apologize for defending the civil rights of the despicable since it also defends them for
all of us.

I won't apologize for putting forth facts based on law and history.

I won't apologize for arguing for the use of Occam's Razor and reasoned discourse over hyperbole.



If that is condescension, so be it.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. You finally said it! DESPICABLE.
It only took until post #91 for you to get it. Congrats.

Despicable.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #40
58. at some point they can issue a bench warrant, no?
And having your attorney state that you will "evade service" seem a little over the top, sounds like contempt of Congress right there.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. No they can not. Congress can not issue warrants, that is reserved for the courts
First they have to serve him
Then he has to not show up
then they have to get a Federal AG to take it to a Federal Court
Then a judge has to issue a warrant

They are still at step one.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. While you're busy defending the actions of this coward...
families all over the country are wondering why the military brass refuse to honor their oath.

Duty. Honor. Country.

How do you think this pathetic worm is perceived by families whose loved ones are dying daily for this immoral and illegal war? Americans expect better from their military officers.

Who gave this Lt. General the orders to carry out this propagandistic charade? That's a question YOU should be interested in, as well. It's disheartening that you don't seem the least bit concerned about the Tillman family and the horrific nightmare that they have been through. I find it rather distressing that you express concern about the Lt. General having to "face public scourging" or "paying with his own dime" rather than expressing OUTRAGE that a military commander would behave with such disdain for truth, integrity and honor.

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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. exactly
Can play nerd bingo all day with process. Meantime Lt. General here swore an oath and apparently forgot it. Put his own balls in the vice too.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. Not defending him, just pointing out factual inaccuracies and hyperbole
I am not the least concerned for the him personally. What concerns be is the willingness of some to strip him of due process and legal protections that we would expect ourselves to have. Stripping away his rights also strips away our own. A retired general is no different than a retired steel worked in that respect. You have to be properly served. Its a basic protection for a whole bunch of really good reasons, hopefully no one here needs that explained to them.

I have pointed out that there could well be reasons that he does not want to appear before Congress, outside of some of the hyperbole being tossed around in this thread. He has been punished and disgraced by the Army. His own position is that he had nothing to do with it has been rejected. That he chooses not to voluntarily show up for another round from politicians is understandable. Occam's Razor is your friend, learn how to use it.

I pointed out the cost issue, since the same requirements to travel and be there at your own expense also apply to ANYONE, rich or poor. Most people are unaware of that.

Since you seem unfamiliar with the oath taken by military officers, and the obligation it imposes, here it is:
"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #61
72. uh, yeah, Please excuse my ill considered use of "they"
I know that. They ('they' being the House Judiciary Comm.) need to ask the DC AG to do whatever ('whatever' being a variety of options, not what you posted), be it going right to one of the versions contempt of congress methods (which in one case they stop using DOJ and can try either in the House or combined).

Congress has power. Like I said, the guy having his attorney say he's going to evade is over the top. Should just go right to contempt there--don't need any warrant. Try him. If he doesn't show for the contempt proceeding, try him in absentia then you can just issue an arrest warrant. Hell, then do civil contempt too grab his house etc. Maybe a press release about the great many options Congress has would light a fire under this guy. Hell, throw his attorney in jail till he produces him too. Avoiding service isn't some magic bullet to ditching Congress like you seem to be suggesting, Congress has plenty of options.

Recent and timely CRS report on just this: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf

This shit will come to a head or I give up. Congress need to bare its teeth already. Rove, Harriet Miers, the weird testimony from Rove's deputy, Rice, the missing emails, and now this. Enough. Like know no one knows where a general is? No one at say, the pentagon knows where he is, ha.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Thanks, Snazzy. Mighty interesting.
I read a lot of the material in your link, and some other things too. I agree that congress has much power to do whatever is required to investigate and bring forth testimony. I think Contempt of Congress is clearly evident by the statement that he intends to evade the subpoena. I think congress has the power and jurisdiction to just haul Kensinger in by his ear under arrest.

If they can't find the ON-THE-LAM-COWARD, perhaps his attorney would like to appear and answer some questions regarding the idea if "intending to evade service of a congressional subpoena".

As for some saying that Kensinger is retired, I don't much give a fuck. He has a duty and responsibility as an American citizen, a decorated three-star general, and the officer in command at the time of the events to testify. I care not about "public scourging" or "on his own dime" or "business trip".

I am unimpressed by the military panel weighing whether to take one star from him and reducing his $9,400/mo. military retirement pay by 9%, while he reaps profits as a privateer from yet more warm bodies sold to government contracts in Iraq. He should rip ALL of his OWN stars off, and ALL of his chest full of worthless medals and ribbons. He is a COWARD who refuses and evades the questions of the American people as represented by congress.

Who does this fucker feel his honor and duty is to? NOT the congress of the people of the United States. NOT the families of soldiers. NOT the soldiers who serve. NOT the family of Corpl. Patrick Tillman. NOT to the TRUTH.

He devotes himself to privateering, profit and evading the American peoples' truth and justice.





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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. Right on!
What you said...
He should rip ALL of his OWN stars off, and ALL of his chest full of worthless medals and ribbons. He is a COWARD who refuses and evades the questions of the American people as represented by congress.

"His chest full of WORTHLESS medals and ribbons." I couldn't have said it better myself!
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. He still fails to understand the due process requirements
CRS-32 is clear about due process protections. Intention to evade is not the same as intention to not comply. Otherwise his lawyer would not have made that statement. Due process for Kensinger is due process for all of us. You can not strip his rights in the name of "American peoples' truth and justice" without taking it from you, me, Skinner, etc. A Congressional committee, made up of politicians is not a forum for truth or justice. Goggle HUAC of you don't believe me.

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #82
84. Cite what you claim.
Cite the portion of the CRS-32 that states anything about "intention to evade is not the same as intention to not comply".

Cite the portion of HUAC that you think is pertinant.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC) were the Salem witch trials of politics in the US.
Some of the first ones televised IIRC. We all should recall what paragons of virtue the participants were and the vast amount of truth uncovered. All those bad people exposed and blacklisted. Why should we believe that this committee will be any better? These kinds of public sessions are little more than media events. Any real investigation is done off camera and were completed some time ago.

CRS-32 states that under current law, the Congress can turn to the court to address intention not to comply. Its does not say it can turn to the court for evading service. The report could be incomplete, so feel free to look up the enabling legislation. Alternative means of service is allowed by many courts, and it varies somewhat, so conceivably the COmmittee could ask for that.

I still believe that this will all blow over soon enough in what will be an anticlimactic event when there are better sound bites for the pols to pursue.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. I see. You cannot or will not cite the material that you pretend exists.
There's little that can be said in response to your non-response. I had hoped you'd provide bsackup to your claims, but......

Your excuse for Kensinger to deliberately evade a congressional appearance is your smear of Waxman's committee's efforts, and backing of the cowardly obstructionist war profiteer.

You have been invited to provide a citing that the profiteer cannot be held in contempt. You pretend it exists, but dance around it when asked to show it.

Do you feel an air of ass-backwardness? WHAT THE FUCK?!!??!!!

You state, "I still believe that this will all blow over soon enough". That's what we are here for. To see that it doesn't "blow over", and to support the investigation of coverups and lies, expose the truth, and support Rep. Henry Waxman in the effort to find truth.

And you're here for...
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. My claims are good, but you do not seem to be aware of a bedrock principle of English/Am. common law
Edited on Wed Aug-08-07 10:08 PM by Solo_in_MD
that unless something is expressly illegal, it is legal. By not enumerating that the Congress can go to the courts for civil contempt for evasion of service, evasion of service is not by itself a contempt of Congress. I don't have to find a citation that says service evasion is legal, but it you think it is illegal, happy searching.

I have not defended Kensinger's actions, but his rights to due process. Sorry if you find that so repugnant, but it doing so I defend them for everyone. Denying due process because we do not like someone or what they are doing is something repukes do, not progressives.

I am skeptical of all pols, not just Waxman. I suggest that history supports my stance. More over I *understand* how the Congressional hearing process works. If you did, then you would understand why they are mainly for PR and sound bites. The investigation should already be complete, the results known to the committee and others. A bound report does not make the evening news like a hot sound bite. The hearings will come, so will the report. Hopefully the latter will provide a clear and accurate picture, since the former clearly will not.

As for HUAC, I am surprised you do not know about it...progressives railroaded out of their industry on the testimony of then Hollywood actor Ronald Regan and others. You might also learn about those who refused to testify to before a standing Congressional committee, and the antics of some who did, including Abbie Hoffman.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Un-American_Activiti...
- http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/McCarthyism/HUAC_Rise...

I'm here to push for progressive goals, to support a big tent for the Democratic party and the movement, and to get the repukes out of office. I am also a knowledgeable pragmatist who loathes hyperbole and falsehoods promulgated as facts, in other words a supporter of the truth, even when its painful or inconvenient. Finally I am someone who understands that by protecting the rights of the most loathsome, I am protecting them for all of us.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
94. why all the congress needs to do is trace where he has gone with his passport!!
that is pretty simple in fact..no one can book an international flight without them taking down the passport numbers...pretty simple in fact..

if they really want to know where he is trace the damn passport ..and since his is "retired" he would need to be using his passport..unless he is some sort of black opps, and traveling without a passport..then i would check military flights and find out what damn flights he has been on!!

have the subpoena served him when he walks off a plane ..either civilian plane or military!!

not so hard!!

fly
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. You misunderstand the process
The top of CRS-32 is a good summary. It all starts with the serving of a subpoena. Until then, nothing can be considered contempt. Its black letter law. Conceivably, the house could go to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia if the evasion is successful over a long period of time and ask for some form of alternative service, but most likely it will not come to that.

The rest of what you postulated is absurd...its not the way the system works. Some of the historical references are interesting, I hope many realize that the vast majority of this dates back before the civil war and would not be allowed by the courts.

This has nothing to do with executive privilege. This is about a single private individual thumbing his nose at politicians, who IMO are just looking for sound bites and news coverage.








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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. What a crock of shit.
"This is about a single private individual thumbing his nose at politicians, who IMO are just looking for sound bites and news coverage."

Is the Lt. Gen. OBSTRUCTING the legislative process? You might want to take a peak at that CRS-32 again.

I marvel at the way you consistently float this "single, private individual" bullshit as truth. How do you figure? Was he or was he not the Lt. General in command at the time of Tillman's death? He was ACTIVE duty at the time of the incident. Stop PROJECTING that he's technically disconnected from all of this. He isn't. You KNOW it and the rest of us do, too.

"sound bites and news coverage"

Actually, that's exactly what the Commander in Thief and the Lt. General got when they PROPAGANDIZED Tillman's memorial in San Jose. Didn't seem to bother anyone then, did it? Doesn't seem to bother you much, either.

BTW- the American people deserve to know the truth about Corpl. Tillman's death. We were, after all, the target of their propaganda.
It's not about "sound bites" or "news coverage"...it's about TRUTH.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Which is all you get from televised committee hearing...they are effectively staged and scripted
events. There will be no new truths come out of them. Some additional things may be made public, but it won't be from the witnesses. Watch some on CSPAN, or better yet in person...its not Law and Order or Perry Mason.

Pols of all stripes use sound bites and propaganda, not just the repukes. Also IMO all pols spin and at times lie. There are no Bene Gesserit truthsayers around to assure accuracy inthe halls of Congress.

Indeed America needs to hear the truth...but committee hearings are not going to provide it.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-08-07 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #83
89. Congress Contempt Power:
"ANY action that directly obstructs the effort of Congress to exercise its CONSTITUTIONAL powers may constitute a contempt..."

BTW- unless you have access to CSPAN 3, it's NOT televised. I agree with your claim re: "staged and scripted"... Rumsfeld and Meyers demonstrated that clearly when they testified.
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Snazzy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #76
95. You make my point
"Conceivably, the house could go to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia if the evasion is successful over a long period of time and ask for some form of alternative service, but most likely it will not come to that."

That's exactly right. Just like anyone else who refuses to obey a court order to appear. (Yes Congress is not a court, but in the specific manner they act like one, although they have to ask DC AG to act for them as enforcement). It isn't "we can't find him" so he wins. In fact, his attorney told Congress he's evading. On that basis, directing the DC AG to act shouldn't involve a lot of waiting, especially if the US Marshals are unwilling/unable to locate a such a recent General and DC area CEO.

As far as whether issuing a notice that you will evade via attorney is exactly some prime facie Contempt of Congress--I'd have to research further (find more time to read!). It is of course rhetorically contemptuous of Congress, not to mention us, the American People. A judge can seemingly issue contempt orders at whim for disobeying his/her directives; Congress in this special power does act like a judge. As you point out, my previous link suggests the breadth of how seriously the court system has affirmed Congress' power to investigate. It must have teeth.

I take issue with my further statements being labeled absurd. Congress does indeed posses mighty power, just like the other two branches. They merely have to use it or even threaten to use it, along the lines I have suggested or maybe even more sophisticated. Congress/Waxman has so many options to make the guy show up. There is no "this is the way the system works." Waxman can bust balls with even more leverage than your typical DA and compel testimony. He has a big podium.

Regarding executive privilege--unless you know this guy and aren't telling us something, it is totally consistent with the Admins serial attempted (and so far successful) undermining of our Democratic Congress' power to investigate and hold accountable while trumpeting up the so-called Unitary Executive. Several are currently evading subpoenas, although we aren't hung up on service that I'm aware of. The Tilman fiasco and apparent cover-up may reach high levels in DOD if not the WH.

This isn't thumbing your nose. That man's oath doesn't dissolve at retirement. Nor is an oath be required to do what is right. But those who do take an oath and serve, should have a special awareness of who they serve--the people. Not a political cover up. That's the crime there, even if we don't have a law for it.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-07-07 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
51. Maybe he's using this "free time" to help plan Bush's martial law coup!

If he can't be seen in public, perhaps now is as good a time as any. And he probably has with him others in the Tillman cover-up that will help too rather than show up to testify, and potentially get thrown out of their jobs.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
96. B*sh can't recall on Tillman
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070809/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush...

President Bush said Thursday he can't recall when he learned that Army Ranger Pat Tillman died by friendly fire, not at the hands of the enemy in Afghanistan, as the Pentagon originally claimed.


"I can't give you the precise moment, but obviously the minute I heard that the facts that most people believed were true were not true, that I expect there to be a full investigation and get to the bottom of it," Bush said in response to a question at a news conference.

<snip>

Sure. Is that why the White House claimed "Executive Privilege" re: Tillman?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #96
97. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-10-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
98. Army reprimands in Tillman case mild.
SAN FRANCISCO Official reprimands issued to three high-ranking Army officers are only mildly critical of their mistakes after the friendly fire death of Pat Tillman and at times praise the officers.

The Army also said it would not include the reprimands in the officers' military records, according to documents reviewed by The Associated Press.
<snip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070810/tillm...
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