Did prof's views on Jews, blacks cross line?

[oberliner]

Is it racism? Robust academic debate? Or clumsy words better left unsaid?

John Marshall Law School professor John Gorby has filed a lawsuit against his employer, saying he was improperly punished for what he believes were innocuous comments to a student after class.

The student, who is Jewish, was doing well in class and Gorby pondered whether his religious training -- which from a young age encouraged critical analysis of written Scripture -- explained why Jews pass the bar at higher rates than African Americans.

Gorby opined that blacks were brought up in religions such as Baptist churches that "emphasize an emotional and spiritual religious experience rather than discussion and debate about the meaning of scriptural language."

Gorby is neither Jewish nor African-American.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/491640,CST-NWS-race01.article

[Writer]

1. Another victim of identity politics.

This is disgusting. Where has critical thinking gone?

[oberliner]

2. What do you mean?

Can you elaborate?

Thanks!

[Writer]

6. This professor was trying to explore reasons for the distinction between

passage rates between Jewish-American and African-American students for the BAR. He was offering a new avenue - a new method of exploring the issue culturally. He had no discriminatory intentions. He wasn't aiming to demean African-Americans, and possibly even was trying to find a reason why; because finding out why can in fact locate methods of retention and support for African-Americans in law school and other academic programs.

Furthermore, the lack of critical thinking - the slippery slope I read about people assuming he said that "African-Americans are more likely to fail his CLASS" - not the Bar - is glaring.

A chilling effect has been placed on professors' comments. Indeed, a professor should introduce provocative topics for discussion (within reason) without fear of reprisal.

[BlooInBloo]

9. I'm sure brown folks of all kinds just LOVE it when white folks follow their exploratory urges....

... which typically MAGICALLY end them up with things like The Bell Curve.

But I'm sure those "exploratory urges" are PERFECTLY innocent. I can't think of ANY reason to believe otherwise. The history of the real world obviously does not count as a reason.

:rofl:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Excepted Herrnstein and Murray Suggested The Differences Were Inherent

Which seems to me to be a fallacious and racist argument...

[JacquesMolay]

5. Actually, he might have gone further than that ..

... and questioned whether Jews tend to do better than everyone in many fields because they are Ashkenazi. Ashkenazi jews have been shown to have higher IQ's on average than the rest of the human population, and a higher incidence of genius among descendants.

You would probably be barbecued for bringing something like this up in a classroom these days, but what is true is true.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Think Where Folks Get In Trouble Is When They Discuss The Reasons For This Phenomenon

eom

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. But that was not what he was asked, nor was it what he replied.

In fact, the accusation was brought by a student who misunderstood what the original question was - did he say that black students would not do as well in his class? No.

He was exploring a single line of a specific question as to why there was the demonstrated difference between black and Jewish graduation rates, as posed by the first student.

If he had answered as you suggest, he might well be deservedly castigated for it, but he apparently confined his reply to the question as it was given. I don't see a problem with it.

[NorthernSpy]

15. superior intelligence is only ONE of the purported "inherent traits" of Ashkenazim...

And we all remember where that line of inquiry led. No thanks.

My proposal is this: if blacks are fair game for hostile critique without consequences to the critic, then so is everyone else. No more double -- or triple -- standards.

[cgrindley]

3. If he had left race out of it, he would have been correct in that the two

religions do indeed value different approaches to the study of sacred texts and related documents. Race doesn't need to come anywhere near the discussion. I know quite a number of Jewish African Americans, but only one of other my Jewish pals is into the whole study the Talmud every day thing.

It would be safe to say that an Orthodox Jewish scholar of the Talmud would probably be pretty quick on the uptake, but no more so than someone who had a dozen years of schooling with the Jesuits, or an atheist whose parents forced him to read Hume and Descartes and Spinoza as a kid.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Well put. nt

[AspenRose]

16. Good post

And I was thinking, Thurgood Marshall was an Episcopalian....not a Baptist.....Clarence Thomas is Catholic, I believe.

(Blacks can be something other than Baptist, imagine that.... (!)) :sarcasm: That prof was painting with a pretty broad brush, and you're right, race didn't need to be brought up.

[Madspirit]

4. I simply couldn't answer this

I would have to know the people. Also, if this was said in a sociology class, it would be one thing. It was private conversation on the one hand but it was a professor speaking to a student on the other. Ack. I just don't know. I really would have to know the man to know. That he is filing a lawsuit does not look good for him.
Lee

[theoldman]

8. I vote for Gorby but I learned long ago that if you want to keep

your job you have to be PC or keep your mouth shut.

[NorthernSpy]

13. before you automatically jump in on Gorby's side, consider...

Concerning lower rates of black students passing the bar exam,

Gorby opined that blacks were brought up in religions such as Baptist churches that "emphasize an emotional and spiritual religious experience rather than discussion and debate about the meaning of scriptural language."

We could use other statistics to justify similar discussions of the failings of groups other than blacks. But I've never seen these anti-"PC" activists attempt to launch a free and fearless debate of, say, why it is that compared with blacks, whites are disproportionately likely to be pedophiles. In fact, I suspect that any such academic inquiry would generate extreme outrage from the Right -- and probably a strong push for a thorough campaign of firings and defunding as well.

In my experience, the anti-PCers are all for free inquiry -- but only as long as it's aimed at those they're already inclined to be critical of.

Furthermore, I also think it's fair to say that if Gorby had made an equivalent but opposite comparison of blacks with Jews -- that is, a comparison between blacks and Jews that favored blacks -- the whole matter would likely have been perceived very differently from the start. I think that the invidious nature of Gorby's remarks would almost certainly have been taken more seriously by many commentators if his comparison had gone in the opposite direction.


The issue here is this: who in our society is to be fair game for picking apart and subjecting to hostile scrutiny ("them"), and who is to be protected from such potentially stigmatizing treatment ("us")? That is what the PC/academic freedom debate is really about, and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Yup. As long as it ends up with the conclusion that black folks are stupid....

... it's all good. And to say anything about it is "quashing free and unbiased inquiry".

:rofl:

EDIT: The typical person who uses the term "PC": racist but doesn't want to LOOK racist (plausible deniability) but still wants other racist people to know that they are racist with them, and wants to shut up all non-racist people.

[cgrindley]

18. You make some excellent points but

on the other side of the argument is the idea that it is now wrong to hurt someone's feelings or offend them in any way at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. Uh huh.

"blacks are stupid because they don't care education."