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Randi Rhodes had a good argument for NOT impeaching: avoiding pardons

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:44 PM
Original message
Randi Rhodes had a good argument for NOT impeaching: avoiding pardons
She supports impeachment but was playing devil's advocate about any possible legitimate motive Democrats may have for not impeaching Bush and/or Cheney immediately--to avoid the that pardon Ford gave Nixon, but also not to back them into a corner when they still have their finger on the nuclear button. Let them get out of office then bring them up on criminal charges.

The problem with this scenario is it is unprecedented and Democrats have a nasty habit of letting bygones be bygones once they win an election as was the case when the Russians I believe it was delivered evidence of Papa Bush's involvement in the October Surprise that left the hostages in Iranian hands longer in 1980 so Reagan could get elected.

The appropriate response to that an other black bag operations is to put those guys in prison the rest of their natural lives to let the right know that we will not tolerate rigging our democracy with fear-based PR manipulation of current events.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Pardons have nothing to do with impeachment.
Impeachment only leads to removal from office. Not criminal charges
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SoonerPride Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The Nixon pardon was pre-emptive and shut off prosecution
Right?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Bush could do that now
it has nothing to do with impeachment.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I think she's referring to....
...the possibility of criminal wrongdoing that could be prosecuted even after impeachment. As was the case with Nixon.

His resignation, and Ford's later pardon essentially took away any chance to prosecute Nixon for the crimes that he undoubtedly committed.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. You can pre-emptively pardon, also. Pardon ahead of indictment.... nt
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've been saying for a long time that, although I would support impeachment,
I would be just as happy if they waited and charged them criminally and sent them all to jail -- after Bush is gone and it's too late for him to pardon anyone.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Impeachment is a protective mechanism. Criminal prosecution is a punitive
mechanism.

I vote for pretection to protect not just us, but people all over the world. Then lets do the criminals prosecution, after we are safer.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I could do both
Yeah, that's the ticket.

Impeach and then indict and convict!
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. I get the feeling that around January 19, 2009
Bush will pardon just about every senior WH official for crimes they may have committed.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Heh heh!!1!! That would mean just about everyone Senior WH official!
That would say alot about the admin, if he did that!

:rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. If bush were impeached, at least he couldn't pardon anyone.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Sure he could
first, he wouldn't be removed, so he'd still be President.

And if he WERE by some miracle removed, he'd have months leadng up to his removal to pardon anybody he wants.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-31-07 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I was giving an axample if he were impeached and removed.
Devil's advicate as one might say. Your country is in deep sh*t by the way. Wake up to it a little bit instead of attacking every impeachment post you can.
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Impeachment is a tool the Founding Fathers created to check a bad president.
Recently, a report from a group of psychologists suggests such a scenario as in your OP:
<snip>
"but also not to back them into a corner when they still have their finger on the nuclear button."

Impeachment is addressed as a possible remedy:
<snip>
If the constitutional process of impeachment is under way when President Bush orders our military to begin a war against Iran, there is a good chance that, rather than salute like automatons and start World War III, our senior military would find a way to prevent more carnage until such time as the representatives of the people in the House have spoken.

To say that Impeachment is 'off the table' is like throwing raw meat to a pack of hungry hyenas.
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I agree with you about the military though I don't think they are going to salute and jump off
a cliff for Bush already.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
14. argument doesn't even make any sense
if we DON'T impeach watch the pardons for the cronies roll and get even more outrageous esp. in the 24 hours before * leaves office, katy bar the door!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. Face it. The Repugs will pardon any and everyone who gets convicted
You need to stain them historically first and foremost. They will try to get away with everything. Pre-emptive indictments are the cure historically.

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-31-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. shouldn't there be a constitutional amendment against pardoning people who worked for you?
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