Blackwater chopper shot down in Baghdad, 5 dead

[karlrschneider]

just on CNN, no link yet.

[natrat]

1. cry me a river

[karlrschneider]

2. I'm no fan of mercenaries but they probably do have families...

...

[cwydro]

4. Well said.

I see much more of this happening as we bring in more troops.

[coalition_unwilling]

21. The 650,000 dead Iraqi civilians had familes also. n/t

[UnyieldingHierophant]

25. Wow, that a lot of civilians, where did you hear that?*

[Richard Steele]

28. That's the MIDRANGE estimate from the Lancet study of Iraqi deaths due to this war.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/11/iraq.deaths/

[EFerrari]

33. That's right. The Lancet study that has been censored from our news by

our corporate owners.

:thumbsup:

[coalition_unwilling]

36. British medical journal "The Lancet" (American equivalent of "JAMA")

done in collaboration with Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, MD.

My point is before we shed a whole lot of tears over a bunch of mercenaries, we need to be shedding tears over all those Iraqis who have died unnecessary deaths.

[spoony]

27. Yes, so let's regret the loss of ALL of them

Granting different value to different lives is what gets us into war.

[Lance_Boyle]

30. mercenaries making money

is what keeps us in war. The only good Blackwater scum is dead Blackwater scum. As for their families... mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be mercenary filth.

[spoony]

37. "The only good ____ is a dead ____"

Anyone who says this about another human is abhorrent.

[mitchum]

47. No, those Blackwater scum have given up anything good...

about their humanity.
They are craven, blood-soaked killers. That's why they call them mercenaries.

[The Stranger]

66. Their saying is: "Mercenaries never die, they just go to hell . . . and regroup."

[BuyingThyme]

40. Then they should know better.

[Beelzebud]

60. If mercs want to fight in wars, they should join the military.

Instead they try to profit from disaster. Fuck them.

[acmavm]

3. I wonder if thier families will sue the company?

[soothsayer]

12. ..and the company will countersue the families, as is already

happening with this outfit

[Poll_Blind]

5. .

PB

[Benhurst]

6. Guns for hire. If you live by the sword, you die by it. NT

[roamer65]

32. I agree with you.

I have little sympathy for these 5.

[MrSlayer]

7. Soldiers of fortune or misfortune?

It's a double edged sword when you take money to kill people. I've no sympathy for these guys, they aren't our troops and they aren't helping anything.

[shain from kane]

8. Ol' Euphrates, she's callin' my name

[LisaM]

9. They were probably lied to, told the job was safe

I wonder if hiring these guys at the exorbitant rates that they do counts in the employment numbers for the * administration? I'm sure they do, in which cse, while the government is merrily cutting social programs, taking cops off the street, defunding everything they can, they're giving Halliburton piles of money to hire these people.

[Flarney]

10. So what? They're still working for blood money...

I feel for their families if they didn't have a say in the matter, but beyond that, fuck them.

[LisaM]

13. I think that's harsh

These are people who probably really needed the money or couldn't get other jobs. That's how they attract most of their employees. Sure, some of them are basically thugs, but I'm sure most of them are decent people.

[Flarney]

17. Probably is a bit harsh, but...

...I don't think "decent" people work for blood money. They might not have deserved to die, but they are waaaaaaaay down on my list of people deserving sympathy. It just makes me sick that our soldiers are there making a fraction of what these mercenaries make and are given less armor, equipment and even food.

[LisaM]

19. What if they're Katrina victims?

Which I'm sure many of them are. Look, again, I oppose their use. I would rather see our money gainfully employing people at home in meaningful jobs. But people are sometimes forced into choices.

[Flarney]

23. Good point.

Thanks for talking me down. :-)

[LisaM]

35. LOL, I'm just trying to understand why someone would go

And I like to feel empathy for the families of people who've died. But, I agree that they are mercenary and I DO NOT like using them nor our tax money paying for them. The system is f***ed, if you want my opinion.

[spoony]

38. Blood money?

You know, someone has to be there fixing all the shit we broke with our bombs.

[Flarney]

41. Right, let Iraqis fix it with our money...

like the Marshall Plan with Japan and Germany. It works. If we were letting the Iraqis rebuild the country it would put a significant dent in unemployment, which would go a long way toward quelling the insurgency. Iraq has something like 40-50% unemployment...why the hell are we importing labor? Oh yeah, for the profit margins of Halliburton etc.

(Thom Hartmann describes this much more eloquently than I can, sorry.)

And yes, I stand by "Blood Money." NO ONE should be allowed to profit from war. It's sick, and the system only promotes more war...every war we've been in since WWII (at least) has been for money. (whether in the form of drugs, oil or just selling bombs, bullets and tanks).

What a fucking racket.

[spoony]

46. Is this limited to paramilitary contractors

like Blackwater or do you think that truckers and construction workers are also "war profiteers"? You know, the people who make the money you complain about are here at home, not there on the ground. You can hate Haliburton without being indifferent to the deaths of the sods they employ.

There are a lot of people over there; far too many to label them all as wallowing in blood money.

[mitchum]

48. Are those truckers and construction workers profiting from the spoils...

of war? If the answer is yes,well...they ARE war profiteers.
Fuck them. And they're doing it with my $$$$$$$$$

[spoony]

49. Sad

It really is, that you even hate blue collar workers there. They're doing far better things in that country than the military. In the end, your hatred of them changes nothing about them, but maybe some things about yourself.

[Flarney]

57. But what is their motive?

What percentage of the blue collar workers are there out of an altruistic desire to help the people of Iraq vs. the percent that are there because of the exceptionally high wages these jobs pay because Iraq is a war zone? Exactly. They are taking advantage of the fact that these jobs are offered in a war zone (i.e. a place where we are responsible for the deaths of 600,000+ Iraqi civilians). That is why it is "blood money." No one is forcing those contractors to go to Iraq. Only the military is forced to go, and they are paid only a fraction of what these "opportunists" are making. It is disgraceful.

[spoony]

61. So the military isn't blood money?

Because it's less money? And who cares if they feel altruism, they aren't over there to hurt the Iraqis, the vast majority are just doing a job with high pay for high risks. I don't know them. You don't know them. Maybe they haven't had work in awhile. Maybe they have a lot of debt. Maybe, just maybe, they aren't bloodthirsty mercenaries but everyday people looking for a foot-up in a shitty economy.

Now, I would--as someone said--prefer the Iraqis be employed doing it. I'd prefer all foreign personnel leave, military and civilian, and go home to their families. I'm just trying to combat some of this "(blanks) aren't worth compassion" rhetoric I'm seeing.

[Flarney]

62. Fair enough. n/t

[mitchum]

69. Mercenaries ARE worth compassion...

if the price is right
I'm sure they would understand that point of view

[mitchum]

68. "blue collar workers there"...give me a fucking break

that's a right wing talking point.
But you already know that.

So, tell me this...you don't mind OUR tax $$$$$$$ paying the $80k a year salary of your beloved "blue collar worker"? In the past, a $20k a year PFC would have been driving that truck. How about you ponying up my share of the tax debt that goes to pay for the privatization of the military (at greatly inflated prices) Since you think it's such a great idea and all, maybe you should put YOUR $$$$$$ where your mouth is.

[spoony]

70. Have a drink

You can go to your (probably early) grave frothing with hatred for these people, I couldn't give a shite. But please quit this rubbish about how they're all bloodthirsty criminals fishing for nickels in Iraqi corpses' pockets. Yes, there ARE blue collar workers there. Construction workers. Truck drivers. They don't carry M-4's and they have families. So whatever, mate. Hate them, it doesn't hurt me. What does hurt me, though, is posting such banal replies that show no comprehension of what I've said, so I'd thank you to cut that out.

[magellan]

55. I'd recommend your post if I could

Well put from top to bottom. Welcome to DU, Flarney. :hi:

[Dancing_Dave]

14. And they beleived jobs in occupied Iraq are safe???

"Safe" doesn't interest these mercenary types much anyway.

[LisaM]

16. For the record, I think they ARE mercenaries, and I oppose their use

but I'm just saying, sometimes out of work people with families don't have a choice.

[Raksha]

56. Like someone forced into prostitution...yeah, I guess it happens

sometimes, but then again there are others who do it because the money is good. There's really no way for an outsider to know.

[Horse with no Name]

63. I know a mercenary who works for Blackwater

They know the drill.
They have no illusions. They know they could be dead on any given day.
From my understanding, most travel lightly on the baggage (meaning they mostly only have parents--no spouses and no children).
They make their choices, they make their money and they make their beds and lie in it when it is their time.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. This is the second chopper in a couple of days.

This isn't a very good trend, is it?

[GliderGuider]

15. Sounds like they finally got them SA-16's figured out.

Just in time for those 21,500 new targets.

[leftchick]

18. Shot down with a Machine Gun? Link...

damn...


Helicopter of U.S. security company shot down in Baghdad

http://www3.whdh.com/news/articles/world/BO40969/


BAGHDAD, Iraq -- The helicopter of a private U.S. security company was shot down Tuesday over a predominantly Sunni neighborhood in central Baghdad and there were casualties, a senior Iraqi defense official said.

The crash came three days after a U.S. Black Hawk helicopter crashed northeast of Baghdad, killing all 12 soldiers aboard.

The deaths of three more U.S. troops also were announced, including a Marine who killed Sunday south of Baghdad, raising the weekend death toll to 28 as American casualties mount ahead of a U.S.-Iraqi security push to try to secure the capital.

Two U.S. soldiers were killed Monday, the military said -- one in fighting in Anbar province west of the capital and another in a roadside bombing.

The Iraqi official, who would not allow use of his name because the information had not been made public, said a gunman with a PKC machine gun downed the small helicopter Tuesday afternoon over the heavily Sunni Fadhil neighborhood in north-central Baghdad, where witnesses reported clashes between insurgents and U.S. and Iraqi forces.

[RaleighNCDUer]

20. Last time there was a major attack on Blackwater

we leveled Fallujah.

[EFerrari]

31. Last time there was a major attack on Blackwater, hundreds of families

had been sitting outside of Abu Graib prison desparate for word of their loved one for A WHOLE EFFIN YEAR.

And, that brought on the first attack on Blackwater.

Those brown people sure don't know how to take an occupation.

[Eugene]

22. link - AP: Helicopter shot down in Iraq; 5 killed

Helicopter shot down in Iraq; 5 killed

By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer

35 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A helicopter owned by the private security firm Blackwater USA
crashed Tuesday in central Baghdad, and five civilians were killed, a U.S. military
official said. A senior Iraqi defense official said the aircraft was shot down over
a predominantly Sunni neighborhood.

The Iraqi official, who would not allow use of his name because the information
had not been made public, said a gunman with a PKC machine gun downed the small
helicopter of a private security firm Tuesday afternoon over the heavily Sunni
Fadhil neighborhood in north-central Baghdad, where witnesses reported clashes
between insurgents and U.S. and Iraqi forces.

There were casualties, the official said, but would give no details.

In Washington, a U.S. military official said Blackwater representatives responded to the
crash in central Baghdad, along with American military. The official, who demanded
anonymity because the details have not been made public, said the cause of the crash
was not known and that it was too early to tell if the crash was linked to the downing
Saturday of a U.S. Army helicopter that killed a dozen U.S. troops.

-snip-

Full article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070123/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

[Greyhound]

24. Mercenary soldier is a dangerous occupation. They signed up for it

and they knew the risk going in.:shrug:

[UnyieldingHierophant]

26. Yep!

[Blue_Tires]

29. welcome to the site!!

[mitchum]

34. I guess you could pay me to be saddened by the deaths of MERCENARIES

[Philosoraptor]

39. You'd think they'd wait till AFTER the president's speech

[Pastiche423]

42. Yeah, what's up w/that?

Even the mercenaries would do anything to get out of listening to little lord pissypants.

[Renew Deal]

43. Mercenaries?

Shit happens

[NNN0LHI]

44. These mercenaries would kill any of us and our families if the price was right

That is what should not be lost sight of here.

Don

[Renew Deal]

45. Exactly

They are amongst the lowest level of scum.

[G Hawes]

50. They're Americans, aren't they?

Perhaps I'm wrong about this because I don't know a whole lot about the military but from what I've read, and from what I underatnd, these were American citizens who chose - thanks to free will and free speech and all - to fight for they believed in as Americans. Isn't that still a good thing here, even if they're misguided in their rationale for going?

[NNN0LHI]

51. How would you feel about paid thugs coming to the US to kill Americans?

Would you consider that a "good thing" too?

Don

[G Hawes]

52. I think you've missed my point entirely.

Perhaps you should try again.

[spoony]

71. Methinks we've stumbled upon

one of those issues that some people are simply unable to show any compassion about. Nothing we could say will convince them that every single contractor over there is there for the sole purpose of drinking the blood of Iraqi newborns and wiping their mouths with government money. They are as immutable as stone on the matter.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

53. If they are doing it for a corporation like Blackwater, they are NOT doing it "as Americans".

They do not wear the uniform, and are not subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

They are doing it for the corporation and the money.

[Horse with no Name]

65. The mercenary that I know

guarded members of the Iraqi government and says Beirut is his favorite place to work and spend time.
Make no mistake, if an American had made a wrong move, he would have shot them.
They don't just work for Americans you know?
They work for the country that bids the highest AGAINST whatever their country their client desires...not excepting the US.

[entanglement]

54. Why doesn't the MSM use the term 'mercenaries' instead of euphemisms like 'civilians'?

n/t

[Horse with no Name]

67. "Mercenary" is such a negative term

And they don't want Americans realizing that we are using them to the extent that we do in Iraq.

[Unperson]

58. Fuck em. They shouldn't be there.

Their greed got them killed. I will shed not one tear.

[lectrobyte]

59. When I hear stories about the mercs, I always wonder who pays for them.

Oh wait, we do.

[Disturbed]

64. Why doesn't the MSM use the term 'mercenaries'?

Obviously, that term has negative perceptions, even though it is accurate.