Left-leaning fiction that should be in every liberal's library?

[GreenPartyVoter]

I want to make sure I have good books for my kids to read when they are older.

We already have some Star trek novels, Aasimov and Bradbury, Tolkien.

[conscious evolution]

1. Robert Hienlien

Pretty much his whole body of work is pretty good.
In particular I would recommend the following:
'For us,the living.'
'If this goes on....'
'The man who sold the moon'
'The moon is a harsh mistress'

[pitohui]

10. heinlein is not liberal or progressive

he is a libertarian

for a creepy laugh read time enough for love --
his argument for having sex w. your twin daughters in the hot tub and your own mother during time of war, sounds like the mantra for GOP pervs but it is not part of a genuine liberal diet

[TexasProgresive]

18. Actually they are not Lazarus Long's daughters but somehow

his clones and he has sex with his ship Dora whose personality has been transferred into a body. I would certainly agree with you that Heinlein is not liberal or progressive and his favorite slogan is: "There is no free lunch." Which I agree with since every equation must balance out. Still in this era I would suggest "Revolt in 2100"

[pitohui]

22. if your clones are not your daughters with 100 percent of your dna nobody is

in any event i think we can all agree that heinlein would shit his pants if he knew he was being called a liberal

[JitterbugPerfume]

91. a polite way of saying

Go F## yourself , Lazarus!LOL

[conscious evolution]

37. He was a Dem in his younger days.

He did not go libertarian till later in life.

Time enough was definitely a weird book.A couple of his other books from that period were weird also.However,The books I recommend are real eye openers.In addition to the story line they contain interesting material on Psyops and mind control and on mis/disinformation campaigns.
Read those books and chances are you will come away with another outlook on politics and world events.

[TexasProgresive]

116. 6th Column and Revolt in 2100 both should be required reading

for political operatives. I think it is 2100 that has the term "negative connotation" describing ways to write about precious leader and his administration in a way that overtly is positive and covertly is negative.

[Gothmog]

36. Starship Troopers was a very right wing book

Heinlein could be very very right wing. Starship Troopers is based on the concept that the only people entitled to vote are vetrans.

[conscious evolution]

38. Intentionnaly so.

He was pointing out the tendencies of fascism in that book.
"DANGER!! DANGER!! We got to fight those creepy bugs over there so they don't attack us here!"
Sound familiar?

[PVnRT]

73. Eh, not really

I think the point (which was taken to the extreme so that it could be clearly seen), was that there are a lot of people who participate in democracy who do nothing to help preserve it. The Federal Service, before the Bug War, consisted primarily of people being shipped out to do stuff like terraform planets, dig ditches, or be human guinea pigs, not just fight in the military. The recruiting officer even seems aggravated with the fact that anyone can sign up for it and they have to be accepted.

Of course, it's also an allegory of a war against China, whom Heinlein saw as the real threat rather than Soviet Russia.

[Puregonzo1188]

147. I'm sorry, but didnt the author of Starship Troopers respond to a pro-Nuclear

Disamerment ad by SANE by forming the "Patrick Henry League" a group which supported Nuclear arms testing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers#Heinlein.27s_military_background_and_political_views

[PVnRT]

72. Good job, repeating the standard idiotic talking point

Now go out and read it, grok it, and get back to us with a statement not so ignorant.

[Beelzebud]

128. LOL. Wow you really missed the point.

[yella_dawg]

94. I love Hienlien!

But he is on the front line of the Ayn Rand Libertarian fantasy movement.

He's as far from liberal/progressive fiction as you can get.

[cynatnite]

2. John Dean books...he's a good writer

I also dig books about vampires.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Know any good progressive values vampire stories? lol

[cynatnite]

5. Hmm...they suck the blood out of their victims...

yeah, I guess that's not very progressive. :blush: LOL Hope my Trek books balances me out.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Heheh

[warren pease]

11. But then they donate it to the local blood bank n/t

[pitohui]

9. fevre dream by george r. r. martin EOM

,

[TomClash]

4. Definitely Steinbeck

Including In Dubious Battle

[BrotherBuzz]

30. I'd place Grapes of Wrath at the top of 'Definitely Must Read' list

[David Zephyr]

47. Steinbeck!

Yes.

[WinkyDink]

76. "Of Mice and Men"---Shows the dignity of work. (And the Sinise/Malkovich movie is superb.)

And how much too many struggle just for "a can of beans" and a dream (land and "rabbits", being in "the pictures", prize-fighting, etc.).

[fishwax]

118. I like In Dubious Battle a lot

kind of overlooked among Steinbeck books, but it's one of my favorites.

[TomClash]

127. Like me you are a rarity

Few people I know have read that book, but I think it is a masterpiece.

[hfojvt]

6. check out mysteries by Michael Collins

and historical fiction of Howard Fast
also Kurt Vonnegut
Edward Bellamy's "Looking Backward"
William Morris's "News from Nowhere"
Daniel Quinn's "Ishmael" and "My Ishmael" and "The Story of B"
Joseph Heller "Picture This"

[yurbud]

7. most good fiction is left leaning. Fascism is anti-introspective

[taterguy]

12. I really like Denise Giardina's books

She wrote a couple historical novels about the coal mining wars in West Virginia

[DutchLiberal]

13. 1984, of course!

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Of course!

[billyoc]

35. The OP said FICTION.

;)

[GreenPartyVoter]

42. I'd laugh if I wasn't already crying.

[scarletwoman]

15. Good literature is not ideological. Good literature is a window on the human condition.

Bradbury is a right-winger, btw. And Tolkien's work certainly smacks of White/Western supremacy.

I don't think that it's useful to look for any particular point of view -- it is far more useful, in my humble opinion, to expose them to a wide array of viewpoints and encourage them to analyse what they think rings true and what doesn't.

Good literature is neither "left" nor "right", it is simply thought-provoking.

sw

[SmokingJacket]

23. I agree!!

Two times over.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. correct!

May as well ask for left-leaning pictures to hang on my wall or left-leaning pottery to put in my display case.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

54. Well said

There no better gift that a parent can give than to teach a child to be curious and think for themselves.

[The Inquisitive]

59. So refreshing to here

Couldn't agree with you more.

[WinkyDink]

78. Oh, I don't know; Bernard Shaw wasn't too shabby.

[lastliberalintexas]

92. I agree

Though I am still surprised that there have been 90+ posts and no one has thus far mentioned To Kill a Mockingbird.


on edit- I finally saw the post below about TKaM. Sorry! :)

[fishwax]

120. plenty of good literature is ideological

Something can both be thought provoking and speak to (or from) a political or ideological perspective.

[Forkboy]

126. That's why I selected the book I did.

It's more humanist than simply left or right.And it's VERY thought-provoking.

[hfojvt]

16. almost anything by John Brunner

but especially "Stand on Zanzibar" and "The Sheep Look Up"

[pitohui]

19. two thumbs up for both of those EOM

,

[pitohui]

17. marge piercy has lots of good titles, also iain banks

since there seems to be science fiction lean to this discussion, "he, she, and it" about the woman's affair w. the robot is a good one and seems like a genuine future world - warning, the sexual situation is handled frankly, not for young or immature kiddies

but she has many books that involve politics and capture the flavor of the time or the women's movement -- "vida," "woman on the edge of time," are two remarkable examples

iain banks or iain m. banks is one of the most remarkable science fiction writers around when it comes to building positive futures, and still have exciting suspenseful plots, the "culture" novels that tell of highly advanced people w. real freedom making real choices and how they keep their place in their universe are absolutely marvelous

be aware that banks' notorious first novel "the wasp factory" is probably not appropriate for younger people (gender bending, child abuse themes, not a science fiction story) -- still absolutely first rate but something for young adults to discover on their own not to be handed down by parents when they might be too young for it

i also like kim stanley robertson, esp. the california trilogy and the mars trilogy -- great stuff!

"the handmaid's tale" by margaret atwood is also first rate, but again, adult themes

[MannyGoldstein]

20. Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut

For non-fiction, I suggest To The Bitter End. - shows how quickly good countries can go bad.

[pitohui]

26. and don't forget slaughterhouse five! EOM

.

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Of Course! Sorry, My Bad. n/t

[David Zephyr]

50. I've never read that and now want to. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[The Stranger]

77. Thank you -- I was WAITING for someone to post Vonnegut.

[atommom]

21. The Librarian by Larry Beinhart is a fun one... conspiracy, election fraud,

evil conservatives, all kinds of good stuff.

[SmokingJacket]

24. Bradbury is a rightwinger, sad to say.

I **loved** his books when I was a kid, but dang, what a jerk he turned out to be.

[David Zephyr]

49. Really sad, huh?

I saw him at the LA Festival of Books, thought about giving him a hard time about his politics, but then my better angel told me not to. He was a good writer and thinker and he helped save my old haunt in Long Beach...Acres of Books.

[devilgrrl]

27. George Orwell.

eom

[MH1]

28. The Dispossessed

by Ursula K. Le Guin.

At least I think it's left-leaning...been awhile since I read it. I guess it's more anti-utopian than anything else.

I highly recommend it, regardless.

[petronius]

31. I also like 'The Word for World is Forest' as well as a lot of her

short fiction (like The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas). It's tough to go wrong with Le Guin...

[hfojvt]

63. I did not think it was anti-utopian

I thought the Odonians looked very good next to our own culture

but that reminds me of Piers Anthony's GeoOdyssey series - Isle of Woman, Shame of Man, and Hope of Earth.

[MH1]

29. Barbara Kingsolver. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

33. I've never thought of fiction as left or right; only as good and bad.

[KittyWampus]

34. Elmer Gantry and The Jungle

[David Zephyr]

48. The two Sinclairs, huh?

Upton and Lewis. Both are great books. Sinclair Lewis (not his real name) lived on Upton Sinclair's utopian commune in New York (or was it New Jersey?) when he was a youngster.

[goodgd_yall]

39. The Grapes of Wrath and The Octopus n/t

[Swamp Rat]

40. U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence - all great works of fiction.

I still believe in them. Crazy, huh?

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. Yeah. me too. :^(

[Swamp Rat]

142. Oh yeah, the Magna Carta.

That's pretty important reading.

http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/magna.html

Translation:
http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html

[Horse with no Name]

41. Animal Farm by Orwell. n/t

[Posteritatis]

44. I'd stack the library by quality, not ideology, myself. (nt)

[Forkboy]

45. The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson

The Years of Rice and Salt (2002) is an alternate history novel written by science fiction author Kim Stanley Robinson, a thought experiment about a world in which neither Christianity nor the European cultures based on it achieve lasting impact on world history. It was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Novel in 2003.

-----

Key issues of the novel are hybrid cultures; progress and science; alternate history; philosophy, religion and human nature; politics; feminism and equality of all humans; and the struggle between technology and sustainability.

-----

* "My feeling is that until the number of whole lives is greater than the number of shattered lives, we remain stuck in some kind of prehistory, unworthy of humanity's great spirit. History as a story worth telling will only begin when the whole lives outnumber the wasted ones. That means we have many generations to go before history begins. All the inequalities must end; all the surplus wealth must be equitably distributed. Until then we are still only some kind of gibbering monkey, and humanity, as we usually like to think of it, does not yet exist."

-----

* "This is what the human story is, not the emperors and the generals and their wars, but the nameless actions of people who are never written down, the good they do for others passed on like a blessing..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Years_of_Rice_and_Salt

-----

The section that details the Four Great Inequalities (racism, sexism, ageism, and urbanism ) is superb! Easily one the best and most thought provoking novels I've ever read.

[LongTomH]

135. I would defintely put Robinson's Mars Trilogy on the list.

I've got The Years of Rice and Salt, but haven't read it yet. I have read the Mars Trilogy: Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars. The unifying theme is the settlement and terraforming of Mars, with political, ecological and mythological themes running throughout the three novels.

An interesting thread in the last 2 books is the worldwide chaos resulting from a precipitous rise in sea levels when an Antarctic ice shelf slides into the ocean, and the human response. Robinson is optimistic; in the books, the chaos results in new social institutions being born or old ones reworked.

I'd call it the best political SF I've read. Robinson seems to be developing some truly original political concepts. I agree with his idea that both socialism and capitalism - as we know them - combine the old feudalism with emerging, true democracy. I'd say he could be a source of ideas for a 21st Century progressive movement.

[Forkboy]

140. I love all his stuff.The Mars trilogy is what got me into him.

The Years of Rice and Salt is not sci-fi,though there's still a lot of science in it.But the ideas and imagination on display is amazing.I've already read it twice and I'll probably read it again before too long.It's scope and detail is mind boggling.

I've also liked the first two books of his "Science in the Capital" series,"Forty Signs Of Rain" and "Fifty Degrees Below",which deal with global warming.I'm still trying to land the last one "Sixty Days and Counting" at the library.

I think he's the best in the biz right now.

I'd say he could be a source of ideas for a 21st Century progressive movement.

I agree with that big time.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

46. Jennifer Government by Max Barry.

It's not an explicitly liberal, or even political book per se, but it definitely has a major theme of anti-corporatism and also happens to be a very entertaining read.

[happyslug]

51. The Wizard of OZ, the author was liberal for his time period.

Remember the story, how the Farmers (the Scarecrow), the workers (The tin man) and the Politicians (The lion) could over come the evil power of the East (i.e. Wall Street).

Now the movie tried to spin the story to the Right (For example in the book Dorthy's Shoes were SILVER, in the Movie Ruby, Silver was call for inflation in the 18980s and 1890s that would help the Farmer and the Worker and hurt Wall street). Even the Wizard had political overtones, the Wizard was model after the GOP leadership of the time period, providing a lot of Color but NOT much action. In the book the Wizard required EVERYONE in Oz to were colored glasses so everything look good, even when it was not, a concept dropped in the Movie. The Wizard also sent all four to "fight" the Witch, expecting them to be killed off (A lot of Spoken Support, by no real support). The Oz books were liberal for their time period, and if you understand the time period enjoyable today not only as a child going through a make believe land, but at a higher level seeing the comments on the US society and politics.

Most of the above are in the Baum books, Thompson was less political.

Baums Books:
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (Baum, 1900)
The Marvelous Land of Oz (Baum, 1904)
Ozma of Oz (Baum, 1907)
Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz (Baum, 1908)
The Road to Oz (Baum, 1909)
The Emerald City of Oz (Baum, 1910)
The Patchwork Girl of Oz (Baum, 1913)
Tik-Tok of Oz (Baum, 1914)
The Scarecrow of Oz (Baum, 1915)
Rinkitink in Oz (Baum, 1916)
The Lost Princess of Oz (Baum, 1917)
The Tin Woodman of Oz (Baum, 1918)
The Magic of Oz (Baum, 1919)
Glinda of Oz (Baum, 1920)

Political interpretation of the Wizard of Oz:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_interpretations_of_The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz

All of the above books are out of Copyright so you can download them from
http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/b#a42

In 1919, Baum died and the family had Ruth Plumly Thompson write the Oz books from that point she stopped writing them in 1939. Her books contain more comic features and Romance than Baum's books and less politcs. Some of her books are still in Copyright.

[hfojvt]

64. I thought the Lion was specifically William Jennings Bryan

Although the controversy at the time was that Baum wrote them in a different style, as a story that did NOT try to teach a moral lesson.

I noticed in the book that the first night they stayed with a wealthy Munchkin, and I wondered 'what sort of person becomes wealthy under the rule of a tyrant (the wicked witch, and BTW the wicked witches represented the Banking establishments of the east coast and west coast)?' Baum ignores that and seems to make the rich person a decent sort and amiable host.

[happyslug]

70. My opinion is the book was intended more for fun then an message.

But the message was in the book also. As to the rich munchkin, it was to show that it was NOT rich people who were the problem, but the Bankers of Wall street. Being rich did NOT make you evil, it was the use of wealth to do evil that was wrong.

As to Bryan and the lion, In the books the lion ONCE HE HAD SUPPORT did do a lion's job, but without Support he could not. Thus the people had to support him, but kept voting GOP instead. A social comment on the politics of the time, Politicians need the support of the people and without support they can no nothing.

[Bongo Prophet]

97. Not to disagree, but I recently read an excerpted interview with Baum

and he was going off on how the US should just exterminate the remaining 1st Nations tribes. The reasoning behind this was that they would be remembered for their greatness (noble savage) rather than the defeated and devolved state at the current time. It was quite a disturbing genocidal/eugenic rationalization.

I have not read the books, so I am not really even knowledgeable enough to disagree.
(Refreshing, huh?)

Like so many things, we have to balance artists' views from their work. Or not. (Different schools of thought on that, as well...

:hi:

[happyslug]

109. I have read that about Baum also, relates more to HOW the Indians were in his time.

In fact what Baum writes about the Indians is more a comment on HOW the indians were being treated in his time as opposed to the legends of the Indians. What Baum said was that the Indians you saw in thew white settlements, were pale images of the Indians of legend, that the story of the Indians would be better if these modern Indians would disappear so the only Indians we knew of would be the Indians of legend.

Now, Indians living among whites had been a characteristics of US society from the 1600s to the 1900s. In most cases these Indians were looking for work among the white farms (as did white day laborers who often mixed in with the Indians and free blacks when it come to looking for work). The white farmers would hire these laborers (White, Black and Indian) to do basic labor on the farms. These made up the rural working class as opposed to the farmer owners.

Now Farms themselves fell into two groups, the first was the large farms, which needed labor during harvesting and planting. The other were subsistence farmers who planted enough to keep themselves alive, but whose main source of revenue was providing labor on the larger farms. In addition to these subsistence farmers you had landless people who either lived on the larger farms OR were homeless (Often homeless temporary for they were to far from their home to live they every night while they were looking for work, we are talking about the time period were everyone traveled by FOOT). These day-laborer (including Indians away from their reservations) had to survive in an area where they had NO property rights (i.e. NO PLACE TO LIVE except what they could pay for OR find where no one would bother them). Furthermore they were poor and could NOT afford what the better farmers could buy as to clothing etc. Such Workers were also far from home and could no longer have access to home made clothing. All of these made them look worse then people image how the Indians lived before the white man took their land.

My opinion (and it only an opinion) is that Baum was writing about the Indians AS THEY WERE IN THE 1890s till 1920. The Indians wars were OVER, the Indians he saw can be viewed as aliens in a strange land where their Indian features show them NOT to be white. Furthermore their Indian Features were clear to all who knew what to look for, but these features were NOT on a person to be feared, but on someone you can hire for the day.

Baum's comments on American Indians living among whites reflect an earlier historian (William H. Prescott) who made similar comments the Mexicans of the 1800s. Prescott basically said you can NOT envision the ancient Aztec by looking at the Mexicans of his day (the 1840s) for the Mexicans were a conquered people living under people who spoke Spanish NOT the Ancient Aztecs who fought Cortes. Prescott comments that the Mexicans of his days, while decedent from the Ancient Aztecs, were also the product of having to deal with their Spanish overloads for over 300 years. They were a shadow of the Ancient Aztec, not the real thing. While this sounds racist on its face (and used by racists) it also related the reality of Mexican society at that time. Santa Anna was finally removed only in the early 1850s (Through in lived till 1874, offering his survives to BOTH sides in the Mexican Revolution) but his removal saw the first movement to re-make Mexico into something other than Spanish overloads and Native peasants. The Mexican Revolution would put the first Indians as President of Mexico and revamp Mexican attitude to its Indian roots (Along with some land reforms and other reforms). These were NOT enough for another revolution was called for in the 1910s. Both lead to further reforms. In between, while the Reforms were minimized, the reform movement was able to educate the masses as to what was NEEDED.

But this is a thread on Baum and Indians not Mexico, my point is like Prescott, Baum was reporting the situation AS HE SAW IT (Or was reported to him in the case of Prescott).
Both accepted the situation as it WAS and reported as it WAS. They both also reported that this is a marked change from the past.

People tend to forget that before 1920 every census the US took had more people living in RURAL areas then urban areas (1920 was the first census where more people lived in urban areas then Rural Areas). Furthermore, most Families, even in 1920, did NOT have a car (Car ownership was expanding, but most families did not own a car till after WWII, through Car ownership expanded in the 1920s and 1930s). Thus in the period Baum is writing in (1900-192) people's movement was restricted (Horses could be used, but a horse requires, food and maintenance way above what is required by a Car and way more than is required by a Bicycle or a pair of shoes). My father use to tell me about the time he was a laborer on a farm in the late 1930s, he was told to use the horses for they had to be feed every day whether they were used or not, while the Tractor only had to be feed gasoline when it was used. Given these facts, it was unlikely the Indians Baum saw had horses (or the money to care for one), a car or even a bicycle). Thus the Indians Baum saw were day laborers looking for what ever work they could get.

Given the above I can NOT say Baum's comments on the Indians of his day were Racist in intent. Baum appears to be just commenting that it would be BETTER FOR THE MEMORY OF THE INDIANS IF THEY ALL DISAPPEAR instead of trying to survive as a conquered people in a hostile environment. Thus Baum's comment they should disappear so we would remember Geronimo, Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, King Philip, Tecumseh, Pontiac (and his brother the Prophet) to name a few Native Americans, as great Indians and Indians as a great people and ignore the what the Indians had become after 1890 and the end of the Indian wars.

As to Baum's attitude to the Indians themselves, that is unknown. His comments may reflect a desire to eliminate the Indians, but careful reading of Baum's comments indicates more a comment on how low the Indians have come rather then a desire to kill them off. I suspect Baum was in a box, he wanted to see the Indians return to what they had been, but accepted the fact that can never be. That being the case what do you do with the Indians? The fact that he commented on them indicates he saw a problem, he just did not know the solution.

Now his comment after Wounded Knee appears to be more aggressive to the Indians, but read it and you will see he is trying to find a solution to the harm the whites did to the Indians. His solution was to advocate going the final step, but that is after the first report of Wounded Knee (which reported a "fierce fight") as opposed to what actually happen at Wounded Knee.

Baum's Comment on Wounded Knee (1890):
http://www.northern.edu/hastingw/baumedts.htm

I have read his comments on Indians elsewhere and he seems to have advocated extermination of Indians only this time, his other comments that I have read is more of a regrets of how low the Indians have gone then a call for their extermination.

Remember he married the Daughter of the leading suffragette of his time period, He advocated the free coinage of Silver (to cause inflation to help the farmer) and other what was then progressive causes. For those reasons I can NOT see him NOT being a Liberal (as that term is used today), but in times of stress people often say things they later regret.

[Bongo Prophet]

123. Thank you for the info, happyslug!

I have read it all, as well as the links.
You are right of course that we do not really know the inner workings of his mind, and my modern take on it would be missing context.
I have a tendency to analogize, and that may have lead me astray here.
e.g.
If a similar attitude were applied to, say...
modern Iraqis being exterminated because they are no longer the height of Mesopotamia
or Israel after the fall of the temple...etc.
well that might be different.

Each of those would be special cases, with difference in detail.

Thanks again for the time and the expanded perspective. Something to think about.
His other Oz books do seem interesting, and a symbolic reading might yield some really thoughtful nuances that I would not have considered.

:hi:

Sorry to the OP if this was a divergence. I will repent with an additional suggestion of non-fiction in another post.

[happyslug]

138. You often have to put yourself into the time period he was writing in.

One case I had to do this with was a Landlord-Tenant case I read several years ago. It was a case from the late 1940s (If I remember right) where the Judge said is was NOT a violation of law for a landlord to change the locks while the Tenant was taking a bath. The Case involved "Unlawful entry" a Law that forbid ed the use of violence or the threat of Violence to evict a Tenant (The law was first issued in 1385 by King Richard II and became part of the Common Law in most states).

I read the case over and over and could NOT see how you could evict a Tenant "Peacefully" while he was taking a bath. Then it dawned on me, the bath WAS NOT IN THE RENTAL UNIT, it was down the hall. I am use to each apartment having its own bath, but that was NOT the condition in this case, the bath was down the hall so when the landlord changed the Tenant was in a bath NOT in his Apartment.

Thus the Judge was correct, the Landlord did NOT use force or the Threat of Force to evict the Tenant. IF the Tenant had been in the Apartment, the Landlord would violate the law to change the locks (Locking someone in is an act of "Violence", but the Tenant was NOT in the Apartment when he took the bath.

Now, I bring this up for the decision of the Judge does NOT go into where the bath was. The case completely ignores where the bath was, because the Judge assumed anyone reading the case would know baths are NOT in Apartments, but down the hall from Apartments. This was the condition of most low cost Apartments at that time period. I had to adjust my thinking from someone who always lived in housing where the living unit had an integral bath room, to someone who "knew" all low cost apartments did NOT have integral bathrooms. The same when you read what someone wrote a long time ago, he is writing in his time period with his view of how things are. Baum was NOT writing today, he was writing his comments on American Indians in the 1890s where the memory of they fight to keep their land was still fresh (and the fact that the Indians were looking for work among white farmers was common to Baum's eyes). Such Indians living among whites had been characteristic of Rural America since the 1600s (With less Indians as you went Eastward over time. i.e. a lot in New England in the 1600s, but few in New England in the late 1800s).

People would like to say if they lived in the past period, they would no different from what they are today. That is false, for you are a product of your time period. This includes what your friends talk about and who you associate with (and people are social Animals and will Socialized and thus adopt the more of the people they socialize with). Thus most people, if they lived in past period, will thing like the people of that period (maybe not to burning Witches but maybe to the concept that witches exist).

My point is when you read someone, look at his time period. Para phase, Gibbon's comment about a 6th century Roman General, "His vices were the vices of his time, but his virtues were his own". When you look at a writer from the past remember that quote, people often fall into the vices of their time, be it Witch Trials, racism, insolence or even free love. On the other hand their goodness, while often also a product of that time period tend to be more personnel in nature. Furthermore remember the old pray, "Please give me the strength to change the things I can, The courage to endure the thing I can not change, and the wisdom to know the difference". Everyone, past, present and future have to face this dilemma, some people do it better than other, while Conservatives avoid any change unless it helps them financially. Progressives in the past have had to endure a lot of things that needed change, but the time was NOT yet ready for those changes, while the same people were fighting for changes THAT could be done. In Baum's case what could be done was to help the Farmer recover from the deflation of the previous 30 years, that is what he fought for. His comments on the Indians reflected the view of Farmers of Kansas, support the troops. Something that was emphasized not only politically, but in the Newspapers of the time period (Which had to do with the raise of the Labor Movement and the fear of urban unrest). Labor and the urban poor had a tough job getting their message out to the Farmers that the troops were NOT to protect the Farmers but to put down the Workers. I suspect Baum learn a bit of this while working in Chicago in the 1890s (The magazine he wrote the comment about Wounded Knee had been marginal for years, when under along with a lot of other business in the Depression of the early 1890s). By the time he wrote the Wonderful Wizard of Oz in 1900, he had worked in Chicago for almost 10 year. Thus he saw what the workers needed, which was as much help as the Farmers. Thus in Oz he had not only a Farmer (the Scarecrow) but a Worker (The tin man). I do not believe Baum would have used the tin man if he wrote his book in 1890, but by 1900 he had been exposed to the idea of workers rights. He grew for his background had changed.

We also much look for such growth when we read someone is the past. In the past you could have had someone changed over time, everyone does as he or she gets new information. The time period a person lives in may change. In the 1850s racism and Slavery were accepted both North and South, by 1866 this had changed. Slavery was viewed as bad both north and south and racism was looked down upon as bad (Through it came back in the 1890s). In the 1930s being anti-Semitic was acceptable, but the late 1940s it was NOT. Racism was well looked upon in the 1920s, but by the late 1940s the first death pains of segregation were heard. Truman made some racist comments in the 1930s, but in the late 1940s was offended when he heard of a black soldier on leave being assaulted by racist in the South. Truman also looked into joining the KKK in the 1920s as a Patriotic Society, till he was told he could NOT hire any Catholic, he had lead a majority Catholic unit during WWI. Truman also was told he could not hire any Jews, but he had been a partner with one when he opened a shop in the early 1920s (Truman once told some Klansman that his former partner told him a Jew had to be running the Klan, who else could convince a bunch of men to pay $30 for a $1 bed sheet). Truman changed over his life, as do most people. Thus a comment written at one time, my be rejected by the same writer later on in his life. Generally this rejection is of bad comments, but once in a while it is a rejection of a good comment, but that simply show we must look at the person as a product being worked on, not a finished product.

[Bongo Prophet]

149. Agreed, and not only the time period, but the info available at that time/place

All good points, and thanks for the time adding this!
A moral of this could be that we must always be striving to spread awareness and further our own thinking. For as we are unfinished, so too is history, and it is each generation's duty to progress and evaluate the culture around us.

Cheers:toast:

[Warpy]

52. "A Canticle for Liebowitz" by Walter M. Miller

http://www.amazon.com/Canticle-Leibowitz-Bantam-Spectra-Book/dp/0553379267

"The Jungle" Upton Sinclair. All the shit that happened then is happening here and now.

"The Grapes of Wrath" John Steinbeck. Best leftist rant out there.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

53. Shardik, Richard Adams

Watership Down, Richard Adams

Simply because I loved them both as a child, and what the heck, I turned out very lefty.

Edit: I wanted to add that some parents think the topics are too adult for children, but I read both of these when I was around 10 years of age. However, I also read The Stand, Stephen King (sneaking under covers with a flashlight) when I was that age.

Still, when they're ready for them they're wonderful reads.

[Bjorn Against]

55. One great non-fiction book that reads like a novel...

The Legacy of Luna by Julia Butterfly Hill.

The book is every bit as entertaining and incredible as even the best fiction, but the story is true.

It is about a woman who climbs up in a tree and refuses to get down in order to stop the logging industry from clear cutting the forest. She lived up in that tree for over two years, surviving vicious storms and attempts by the loggers to force her down. It is an extremely powerful story that every DUer should read.

[DavidMS]

56. What about Doeblin?

I loved November 1918: A people betrayed. Great piece of historical fiction. Unfortunately not very well known.

[losthills]

57. Catch 22, by Joseph Heller

The Monkeywrench Gang, and Hayduke Lives by Edward Abbey

To Kill A Mockinbird.... (forgot the author)

[hatrack]

62. And if I may venture a slight deviation from the request . . .

Pretty much ANYTHING non-fiction by Abbey, particularly his essay collections "Down The River", "Desert Solitaire" and "The Way Home".

[keroro gunsou]

84. author author!

harper lee wrote to kill a mockingbird.

[hatrack]

58. Four dystopias you have to have on the shelf

"The Sheep Look Up" - John Brunner
"Stand on Zanzibar" - John Brunner
"The Handmaid's Tale" - Margaret Atwood
"Oryx And Crake" - Margaret Atwood

[yardwork]

83. The Handmaid's Taile by Margaret Atwood - I was waiting for that one.

Read that one and you'll understand a lot about what is happening now.

[johnfunk]

60. Upton Sinclair: The Jungle

"It was four o'clock when the ceremony was over and the carriages began to arrive..."

Great, GREAT book.

[bread_and_roses]

61. Yes to many above ESPECIALLY Brunner, LeGuin, Sinclair, Steinbeck

As for whether or not literature can even be slotted as "Left" and still be good or if "good fiction is just good fiction" - well, the second may be true, although I, for instance, am not interested in the nice dilemnas of the rich no matter how well written.

But it is also true that the themes explored and how] they are explored can open a mind to looking at old structures in new ways, at conventional wisdoms with a fresh eye: good science fiction is particularly good at this. LeGuin, for instance, puts very human characters with very human reactions into a social order we've never seen explored with depth - "anarchism" (in quotes because in this book it's not quite what you probably think it is ) and that promotes thinking about the possible forms of human social organization in a whole new way.

Sinclair is not a particularly "great" writer as a writer, but "The Jungle" is a good read and should be read because it is such a vivid evocation of what life is like for most under un-regulated Capitalism. How could someone come away from Sinclair believing in Free-Marketeer-ism?

And IMHO, Heinlein is no more a progressive, or in any way "Left" than is Any Rand. Both, in different ways, seduce young, impressionable adolescents with the sex scenes. Those young, impressionable adolescents then conflate the underlying assumptions with the sex. Some never get past that, and thus, we have Libertarians for instance }( .

[baby_mouse]

65. "Left leaning fiction"?

What does that mean?

[GreenPartyVoter]

68. Stories that do not lean one to conclude the fascism and free markets are good things?

I am married to a right-leaning conservative Christian and our family attends his church of choice. I just want my kids exposed to more ways of thinking than that, and unfortunately just me spouting my theories on life might whistle past their ears. So I thought they might get more from authors than from mum.

[baby_mouse]

88. Anything by Urslua Le Guin for kids, then

She's smart, that lady.

Kids stuff first, though. Wizard of Earthsea. And her most recent stuff, "Gifts" is good, as is the rest of that series.

In particular, "The Lathe of Heaven", "The Dispossessed", "The Telling" and "Left Hand of Darkness" are truly excellent works, but, um, more for adults.

[Bongo Prophet]

101. Ahh, for the kids! Maybe rather than "left-leaning" just some basic principles, such as...

Appearances can be deceiving

Those who loudly proclaim to have "The TRUTH" may be lying, or just woefully ignorant

Compassion and a "All in this together" attitude

Always question assumptions

See how others live and respect that there are many different and valid approaches to life

An understanding of science, arts, history, of Church superstition against science (Giordano Bruno, say, and Galileo)
and so on.

These things will help to inoculate them from so much brainwashing. They can still read the same scriptures, but not fall into the whacked interpretations or emphasis of Levitical (Sharia) Law vs Beatitudes. Same book collection could yield different interpretations.

Even Harry Potter, I have heard, has some very good lessons in these things (and some parallels to War on Terror fear tactics) - So when RW Xtian type accusations of the evils therein are tossed about, they will KNOW better.


Some really good suggestions here. I am marking this for future ref.

[retread]

66. "Left Hand of Darkness", Ursula K. Le Guin n/t

[otherlander]

145. Haven't read that one yet.

Have you read The Telling? I found it really thoughtfully written. The metaphore of the March to the Stars is a warning that can be applied to political systems left or right.

[Tesha]

67. "The Handmaid's Tale", "Slaughterhouse Five", "The Gate to Women's Country"

The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale

Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse-Five

The Gate to Women's Country (and many other books) by Sheri S. Tepper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gate_to_Women%27s_Country

Ecotopia and Ecotopia Emerging by Ernest Callenbach
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia_Emerging

The Jungle by Upton Sinclair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle

Brave New World by Aldus Huxley.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

Nineteen Eighty-Four and Animal Farm by George Orwell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

Many others that have already been mentioned, but I think
these deserve special notice.

Tesha

[The Stranger]

79. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and YES!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

:loveya:

[hfojvt]

107. Why Slaughterhouse Five though?

I think of that as Vonnegut's most over-rated. I think the leftist message shows better in 'Jailbird', 'God Bless you, Mr. Rosewater', and 'Player Piano'.

I could not get in to 'Handmaid's Tale'. Maybe I will see what the wiki link says about it.

I am quite embarrassed though, since somebody mentioned dystopia's that I forgot Gilman's utopia 'Herland'. I might even put 'In His Steps' into left-leaning category, although the fundies have kinda taken the WWJD theme from it. It starts out with a challenge to a church from a homeless/jobless person.

[Tesha]

110. The anti-war message couldn't be more clear or needed.

> Why Slaughterhouse Five though?

The anti-war message couldn't be more clear or needed.
*OUR* fire-bombing of Dresden killed tens of thousands
of *CIVILIANS*, far more than died on 9/11 or, probably,
the total of Iraqi civilians who died at Saddam's hands.

And our incendiary bombs certainly qualified as the
vaunted "Weapons of Mass Destruction".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

Tesha

[Tesha]

111. "Herland"

If anyone wants to read Herland, because it's
long since out of copyright, the full text is available
online from Project Gutenberg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herland_%28novel%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gutenberg

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/32 <- The "eText"

Tesha

[pitohui]

129. slaughterhouse five -- a heartbreaking story beautifully told w.out sensationalism

i don't know if anyone has ever done it better, frankly

my humble opinion only of course

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

69. John Brunner's magnificent trilogy

In no particular order:

-The Sheep Look Up
-The Shockwave Rider
-Stand On Zanzibar

So much to say for today. If you've never read them now is most definitely the time.

[Beausoleil]

71. Anything by John Varley

One of my favorite SF authors. I just finished reading "Red Thunder" and "Red Lightning", both reminisent of Heinlein's juvenile fiction, to which he pays tribute in both books. But it's excellent left-leaning SF for younger readers (not children). "Red Lightning" especially is very critical of our present political and economic situation. You can tell Varley is not a fan of Bush or any other right-wing idiocy.

His Gaea trilogy is excellent, also.

[PVnRT]

74. "War of the Worlds" - H.G. Wells

Basically the story of European imperialism told with Martians. "The Shape of Things to Come" is another of his that is a good read.

"The Iron Heel" by Jack London should be on the shelf as well.

[SallyMander]

75. Ishmael by Daniel Quinn

I posted this in another book-related thread, but i read it when i was about 13 and it blew my mind. Totally opened my eyes to humans use/abuse of the natural environment. There's no really well-developed story line though, so probably better for slightly older kids.

[WinkyDink]

80. "The Octopus", Frank Norris. "Cry, the Beloved Country," Alan Paton.

[RebelOne]

81. Anything by Stephen King. He is definitely a Democrat.

[raccoon]

82. Octavia Butler's PARABLE OF THE SOWER and KINDRED.

Shouldn't this thread be in the Fiction forum?

[JitterbugPerfume]

90. Butler left us WAY to soon!

Her books are wonderful and frightening

[NewJeffCT]

85. George R. R. Martin is definitely left of center

After Kerry "lost" the 2004 election, he had the famous quote from Thomas Jefferson about the "reign of witches" (of course, when Elizabeth Edwards put the same quote on DU, she was accused of being insensitive to witches)

His books are epic fantasy and his "Song of Ice & Fire" is an excellent series. And, definitely not another Tolkien rip-off - so much fantasy is about the quest of the young innocents to overcome some evil Dark Lord by growing internally.

Young Innocent: Frodo & Sam
Wise old mentor: Gandalf
Dark Lord: Sauron
Quest: Destroy the One Ring
Growing as people (hobbits): Barely capable at story's beginning, but overcome Sarumen & Wormtongue in the shire at the end.

Young Innocent: Luke Skywalker
Wise old mentor: Obi-Wan Kenobi
Dark Lord: Darth Vader
Quest: Destroy the Death Star
Growing as a person: Learning the ways of The Force to become a Jedi Knight

[pitohui]

130. armageddon rag is a great martin novel that is not epic fantasy

i dislike that particular genre so i am always pleased when martin turns his talents elsewhere, and "armageddon rag" to my mind is a great read -- not sure if it's still in print but worth seeking out on the used book market if necessary

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

86. "War and Peace", "All Quiet on the Western Front", "The Red Badge of Courage".

[The Magistrate]

87. 'The Golden Notebook', Ma'am, And The "Martha Quest" Tetrology

By Ms. Doris Lessing.

They are indispensible.

[pitohui]

132. surprised there wasn't more mention of these great novels

i think we got off a bit on a science fictional track and forgot about some of these other great stories

[JitterbugPerfume]

89. Douglas Adams

Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy

and anything else he wrote including A Salmon of Doubt

[LeftishBrit]

93. Don't forget some of the 'classics'

George Eliot was left-wing, and "Middlemarch" and "Felix Holt" both include left-wing politics.

Charles Dickens' books attack many of the social evils of the 19th century. I would particularly recommend one of the less well-known books: "Hard Times" - critical of unfettered capitalism *and* of excessively right-wing and utilitarian approaches to education.

With regard to more recent books: George Orwell of course; Huxley's "Brave New World"; Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath". Also Winifred Holtby's "South Riding" - a sobering account of life in Britain before the Welfare State.

Many British young people get a lot of their knowledge about racial discrimination in early 20th century America from Mildred Taylor's books, which are well-known here and IMO excellent!

[GreenPartyVoter]

112. Thanks! All good selections

[fishwax]

121. a few other industrial novels, since you mentioned felix holt and hard times

Mary Barton and North and South by Elizabeth Barton, Shirley, by Charlotte Bronte, and Sybil, by Benjamin Disraeli. The politics of all the industrial novels are fairly complicated (given the differences between the 1830s and today), but they are certainly critical of unfettered capitalism and attempt to shine a light on the darker corners of industrial life.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

95. Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell

and Middlesex by Jeffery Eugenides.

IMHO, these are the two best works of fiction that have come out in the last decade. And they both carry incredibly strong left-leaning themes.

[pitohui]

133. yeah i too highly recommend both of these also EOM

.

[Bullwinkle925]

96. do you have "The Giver" by Lois Lowry? . . .

i would say it is an absolute MUST HAVE for kids/teens.

[Tesha]

98. Isn't it interesting how many of the books in this thread are sometimes banned?

You're recommendation of The Giver is spot on, but
it caused me to notice just how many of the books being
recommended in this thread are frequently banned or are
"controversial" books in libraries and school districts.

It would be interesting to take a list of "Right wing
books" and see, by comparison, how many of *THOSE* are
the subject of attempts to ban them.

I'd guess the answer to that second half of the question
would hinge on whether or not the Right Wingers would accept
Mein Kampf as part of their corpus (putting aside
the technicality that it's not really fiction).

Tesha

[Bullwinkle925]

119. You have a valid point there . . .

Right-wing pundits are very nervous about literature that brings into focus the foibles of oppression. God forbid that someone should actually become aware and possess the capability of thinking for oneself. I'm wondering when the book bans will begin with this psycopathic crowd who think they are in charge now. Very sad situation that faces us.

[dorkulon]

99. Lord of the Flies, and Orwell's 1984 & Animal Farm

Orwell was anti-communist, but his work is mainly anti-oppressive state.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

100. How Bout "Nader: The Piece Of Shit Who Helped Destroy Our Country"?

[High Plains]

104. Monomania lives!

Read any good books lately?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

105. The Assault On Reason Was Great. Have You Read It Yet?

[hfojvt]

106. but that's not

fiction.

The OP specifically requested 'fiction.'

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

108. Ahhhhhhhh Fuck. You're Right. Didn't Even Catch That Part In The OP.

My bad. :spank:

[BlooInBloo]

102. I still think "left-leaning fiction" is a bizarre way to classify literary works, but...

... The Nine Nations of North America is a work of creative nonfiction, was an excellent read, accessible at a low level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America

[Lilith Velkor]

103. The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman

aka the anti-Starship Troopers.

Forever Peace is another great one by him.

[GreenPartyVoter]

113. Thanks everyone!

[Forkboy]

114. If you can't find reading materials in this thread than I don't know what to do.

:D

Had to write down more than handful myself!

[GreenPartyVoter]

115. I emailed myself the link. Was too lazy to write all that just now. LOL

[mourningdove92]

117. This Perfect Day by Ira Levin

[LWolf]

122. Leave Ann Rand off the list, lol.

Seriously, I think the best library is an eclectic mix of great literature. To be honest, if there is a strong theme explored with depth and breadth, it won't lean to the right.

Kids can be introduced to such books as soon as you begin reading to them. Tell me how old they are now, I'll give you some age-appropriate recommendations. I'm a former school librarian. :D

[Bongo Prophet]

124. Frank Herbert's Dune series

The Dune series has several wonderful aspects to it:

genetics, and the attempt to breed in very special characteristics
multi-generational dynasties
Control of a precious limited resource under someone else's soil
Deep ecology and planetary changes
Cultural hegemony, intrigue, strategies for domination
mutation (personal, political, cultural, etc)
Consciousness and temporality
Natural substances and mystical states

and sooo much more!

[JanMichael]

125. Almost everything by Jack London and Sinclair Lewis.

That may be a tad (baloney WAY to the left) left of most DU'ers but they're on my shelf.

[Beelzebud]

131. Not fiction, but Carl Sagan's Demon Haunted World is a must-read for critical thinking.

[Forkboy]

141. Hearty agreement on that selection.

:thumbsup:

[dembotoz]

134. don't laugh Harry Potter

If the government is evil?
Revolution is OK

[Terran]

136. Dos Passos' U.S.A. Trilogy

You're getting mostly science fiction recommendations here, but I strongly recommend these three novels by John Dos Passos: The 42nd Parallel, 1919, and The Big Money (collectively called "U.S.A.").

Dos Passos became a conservative later in life; but these novels, written in the 1930's when he was a young idealistic socialist, are a sort of populist mixed-media survey of the lives of many ordinary Americans from around 1900 to 1929. It's a great picture of the early labor movement, the impact of WW1, and the struggle to make it in the opening shots of 20th Century America. Give them a try, you'll love them.

Here's a possibly useful review: http://www.whyitsgreat.com/Newsletter%20issue%202.htm

[blogslut]

137. When I was a teen

I was into Paul Zindel and Glendon Swarthout.

http://www.paulzindel.com/
http://www.glendonswarthout.com/

[philosophie_en_rose]

139. His Dark Materials series by Pullman

:thumbsup:

[hyphenate]

143. Well, I know some might disagree with me

but as a young reader, I always loved the Narnia series by C.S. Lewis. While I know he was using Christian allegory in the series, I honestly don't think that much of it is obvious to a child. And they're definitely good reading material.

If you're talking SF&F, some of the juvenile authors are excellent--Patricia McKillip is amazing, Madeleine L'Engle is a winner of many awards for her writing (try Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door, and Swiftly Tilting Planet), and Jane Yolen.

For adults, you might turn them on to the Xanth series by Robert Asprin which are whimsical stories, and Christopher Stasheff's "Warlock" series. I don't know their politics, but the stories aren't really political.

I love Lillian Jackson Braun's "The Cat Who" series of mysteries. In fact, the lead character in them, Jim Qwilleran, tends to be somewhat liberal, and of course, he loves cats, owning two Siamese, one of which is the "cat" of the titles.

I've been reading a little too much non-fiction lately, but many of these authors are the first ones I look for when I go to the bookstore.

[rucky]

144. Pynchon

start w/ The Crying of Lot 49

[Greyhound]

146. Ms. Greyhound is adamant, and I agree, Grimm's Fairy Tales.

They should be exposed to the reality of the original works in order to avoid the sanitized and soulless Disneyesque perversions. They should be made aware of just how horrible things were and could be again. Here in America, we live in a fantastic bubble of ignorance and few have a clue of historical reality.

Steinbeck is wonderful but perhaps too dense for kids?

Zinn's "A People's History of the United States" should be required for every person in the nation, and probably the others as well, since so few have any perception of what really happened.

Aesop's fables for its invaluable life lessons and non-religious morality.

That is all.

Our ideology and values come from the history of our mythology and they need to learn how to critically think about and judge those value systems.
:kick:

[Puregonzo1188]

148. Any books by Kurt Vonneguet (n/t)

[flying rabbit]

150. Maybe some Twain?N/T