You gotta be kidding about this impeachment stuff

[Jersey Devil]

Hell, we can't even get them to vote to defund the war and you think they'll vote for impeachment?

Does Bushco deserve impeachment? Certainly, absolutely, without a doubt!

Will it happen? No, not a snowball's chance in Hell and here's why I think that is so. Politicians care most about getting re-elected and taking control. Right now the Dems polling numbers are terrific and Bushco is at 25%, the public sides with the Dems on Iraq by about 70%, Dems are raising record amounts of money for re-election. So as far as the Dems are concerned everything is peachy keen and they are hoping it stays that way until November 2008.

Do the right thing under the law and morality to impeach these scumbags? ROFL, you gotta be kiddin'. When there's an election to win then fuck the "right thing."

Thanks for letting me have my say. Now flame away if need be.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. it's like seeing a fire in your kitchen

and all you have in your hand is a bucket of kerosene.

Some people want to throw the bucket of kerosene, because at least it's "doing something!!"

[cynatnite]

2. Perfect analogy!

:rofl:

[Jersey Devil]

3. I didn't say that at all

What I said is that you cannot realistically expect them to vote for impeachment given the political scene as they see it, which is currently quite favorable for Dems. They are above all politicians, so urging them to impeach is, imo, the same as banging your head on a rock. You're gonna have a terrible headache and it won't do you one bit of good.

[SoFlaJet]

10. I gotta agree with you JD

as bad as it's been and as bad as it will surely GET under this regime I don't see impeaching these bastards as a viable option-I just don't...and I hate these motherfuckers as bad as anybody here and always have

[RFKJr4PRES]

22. The idea that they do not have the votes to cut off funding is a lie

All the House has to do in not offer the legislation in the first place. No emergency supplement legislation=no funding.

[EstimatedProphet]

4. That's the same thought process that got everyone gung-ho over attacking Iraq.

Best analogy I've seen about it yet.

[SoonerPride]

6. Or like taking the bucket of kerosene and dousing yourself with it

That's our current plan. Equally brillinat isn't it?

I don't care if the Dems do take over in 2009, I don't want the executive to be a king. Republican or Democrat. NO MORE DAMNED KINGS.

I want the Congress to be a co-qual branch of government, with oversight power.

Without initiating impeachment proceedings, the Congress will do permanent and irreperable harm to our country.

All other excuses for inaction are weak and misguided.

[TheBaldyMan]

21. better than not going after Libby because GWB would pardon him right afterward

What will it take for impeachment to work? Televised impeachment hearings - even Republicans will be telling their own to remove the crooks from office.

[Megahurtz]

5. I'm Sorry That I Have To Agree With You.

I hope they prove me wrong. :(

[AndyA]

7. Of course, you're assuming the wave of good fortune for the Dems continues.

Support for Pelosi and Reid has dropped considerably since they took office. Approval numbers for Congress are approaching the single digits.

Eventually, some of that badwill is going to rub off on the Dems.

The Dems are doing well right now because they are not Republicans. But they are not doing the right things for their own constituents. They are gambling that the goodwill is going to last, but with every Bushco invasion into imperialistic territory and no Dem response or action, they take the chance of losing that support.

Nice while it lasts, but people are getting tired of no action.

[TreasonousBastard]

8. Absolutely! It's incredibly naive to think that...

politicians, of all people, will do the right and proper thing when it won't get them any more votes or money. Poltics is about risk avoidance, not risk taking, and sticking your neck out just makes it easier to cut your head off.

At least half the Democrats in Congress are beholden to local machines anyway, and take their cues from their local party leaders. Some don't even bother to pretend to listen to us.

But, hey, keep up the pressure anyway, it certainly can't hurt. Just don't anybody fall into the trap of believing that pressure from us will work-- you're just setting yourself up for a big fall.

[Selatius]

9. I think the Dem Congress is actually polling horribly.

Last I checked, the approval rating for Congress was in the toilet.

[SeattleVet]

11. I hate to say this, but at this point impeachment would probably hurt

the Dems. The repukes are very fractured, with a lot of them turning away from Bush* and keeping their distance. If charges were to be brought, one of the main things it would do would be to give the repukes something to rally their party members. They would ALL fall into line in opposition and become a monolithic party showing solidarity to GWB, as little as he deserves it.

With the 2008 elections coming up, I'd MUCH rather have them scattered all over the map than to be organized and focused.

I've been pulling for impeachment for a long time, but at this point I really think that it'd hurt us more than it would hurt them. It's very unfortunate, but it's not a good thing to have the opposition organized and solidified in a single cause.

[bejammin075]

17. So Dems and Bush-Hating Indies never get rallied?

Why is it that there is all this concern about rallying a base that is shrinking daily?

Wouldn't Impeachment rally all the Democrats and the huge number of independents, and even some repubs who want this fucking War Criminal out of there?

Why are WE afraid of a pathetic, ignorant base?

The Impeachment hearings would knock down the wall of Executive Privilege. The reason that even more people aren't on our side is they don't know the extent of the lies that started the war, the torture, violations of law and Constitution, etc.

Wouldn't Impeachment hearings focus the publics attention?

The ONLY, and I repeat ONLY thing that would rally me is an Impeachment hearing and a trial in the Senate. Preserving the Constitution and our way of life is by far the number one issue I've been concerned about.

Why the fuck doesn't anybody want to rally ME?!?! And the MILLIONS just like me???

[The Stranger]

12. Fuck them and what they will vote for.

Bring the articles to the floor. Hit the networks with interviews. Begin the hearings. It doesn't matter if they vote as a block or we fail to convict. This is beyond politics.

Fuck them and what they will vote for.

[mikelgb]

13. can we officially kill the "we don't have the votes" crutch?

IMPEACH NOW!

[wiggs]

14. It's like seeing a fire in your kitchen

and putting down the bucket of kerosene to grab your fire extinguisher -- the tool made for putting out fires. House saved as opposed to waiting till January 2009 to put it out.

Otherwise, you watch the house burn to the ground with a bucket of kerosene in your hand. Not the best decision.

[wiggs]

15. Sorry JD, should have been under post #1. nt

[Solly Mack]

16. No argument from me

Should happen but won't happen.

[bejammin075]

18. I will not surrender the Constitution without a fight

[percussivemadness]

19. You miss the point

The issue is that only through impeachment proceedings will everything be brought into the open. You can hold all your hearings, write all your letters, issue meaningless censures, but this still doesn`t open up the pandora`s box. Impeachment proceedings do.

You say the Dems don`t have the votes, how do you know? They may not have the votes based on what is widely known by the populace at large, but Impeachment proceedings will shine a very bright light onto everything the Bush junta has done that is illegal.

Once you open the can of worms and let the people see what is inside the can, then I think very very quickly, Reslug senators will change their votes. Because if they don`t, they will be seen to be enabling the president, cheney and his criminals.

Every day that goes by that the Dems do not bring articles of impeachment to the floor of the senate, is a day longer that the Bush regime has to cover up their crimes.

By not acting the Dems will appear complicit, will appear to be enablers, when the American public eventually see the whole truth about this administration, its crimes and everything else it is guilty of, who will they blame, the "innocent" republican senators and congressman who were deluded by Bush and Cheney, or Pelosi and Reid, for not acting.

What if Martin Luther King had said, you know, we don`t have the public support, lets not try to change this racial inequality. What is Churchil had said in WW11, oh well, we don`t have as big an army as Hitler, lets not get involved in this one. What if the East Germans had said in 1989, oh well, we think the wall should be torn down, but I`m not sure we have enough support? What is Ghandi had said, oh well, looks like the British are here to stay?

The list in endless of brave individuals and people who have stood up and said enough, even when everything was against them. In the Dems case everything isn`t against them, but if they refuse to act now, if they refuse to stand up and be counted, history will not take into account anything other than they sold their people down the river.

This is the party of FDR and JFK, they have a history and legacy to uphold, they owe it to the people who are clamouring for Impeachment proceedings. They may not win, but I think you`ll find, just as the public outcry over Katrina turned in a matter of days once the American people, left and right, got what was really going on down there, the exact same thing will happen in respect to Impeachment proceedings.

Peace

[checks-n-balances]

23. AMEN, my thoughts exactly!

I made some of the same points in another thread. I'm not sure everytone has thought through all of this.

Everything else sounds too much like Republican talking points.

[TheBaldyMan]

20. Impeachment is the only option left, the WH says FO to any summons

the subpoena doesn't seem to have any poena if you take my meaning.

The Bush administration has a long history of acting in a monarchical fashion, check out when the op-ed cartoons started to appear with King George/Louis XIV if you don't believe me. That in itself warranted impeachment.

IANAL but isn't Scooter Libby's commutation grounds for impeachment alone? Please, somebody that is familiar with constitutional law explain to me why this doesn't count as protecting someone close to the president and thereby obstructing justice. This shameless abuse of office can only be investigated in an impeachment.

Bush gave protection to a close associate linked to a grave breach of national security. According to the Republicans own lights, this breach occured during wartime on their watch.

[checks-n-balances]

24. AMEN again!

[Pastiche423]

25. W/the exception of the last five or so posters

Was anyone paying attention during Watergate?

If we do not impeach this administration, NO ONE WILL BE ABLE TO VOTE IN THIS COUNTRY AGAIN!

[tavalon]

26. This is the first anti impeachment angle I can actually get behind

our side has proven itself too inept to manage an impeachment, much less two.

[European Socialist]

27. I'll say it again--It's low risk vs. no risk.

Pushing impeachment is a little risky--and that's enough to send most Dems under the bed.