What do you think of NBC's "To Catch a Predator"??

[book_worm]

I've heard both sides: That they serve a useful purpose by getting scum off the streets and stopping child predators and, then that NBC and perverted Justice are guilty of baiting these people and that if they didn't encourage them--these men probably wouldn't have followed thru.

What say you? Another edition airs tonight on Dateline.

[Katherine Brengle]

1. I applaud them - there are plenty of them out there talking to REAL KIDS

and meeting up with them.

I have no sympathy for these people, and it shocks me how often they are defended here.

[Kiouni]

2. Don't we have cops and feds that do this same thing?

I don't think its right for civilian groups to be doing this. There is no possibility of oversight and most of the evidence is useless. Didn't dateline just get in trouble for one guy offing himself on camera? Didn't the district attorney in the city decline to prosecute any of the men they apprehended. I thought this was over.

[Donnachaidh]

17. there has been a *threat* of a lawsuit -- but that is all

And that is one case.

Dateline has been doing this all around the country, and it is only one prosecutor in Texas refusing to prosecute. All the others are going for it. Dan Abrams had Chris on his show tonight.

[Nitrogenica]

3. Why doesn't dateline do more stories about the Bush Administration?

Where's 20/20, or any other news magazine other than 60 minutes?

[Superman Returns]

4. I support this show

Fuck encouragment, if you're willing to drive a great distance to "meet" a 13 year old kid you are sick and need to be locked up. My only regret is that these guys aren't publicly hanged in the town square.

[tularetom]

5. It's kinda creepy

Although I don't believe it fits the legal description of "entrapment", to a layman like myself it comes awfully close.

I'm as happy as anyone to see these friggin perverts off the street but I just wonder how much encouragement is provided by the "kids" manning the phones.

I don't watch it but if they caught a couple of senators or tv evangelists I might change my mind.

[schrodingers_cat]

26. It is ALWAYS the adults responsibility to discourage, resist or run screaming, from the

encouragements of childern. The equation is simple.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. Any Time Criminal Perverts Like These Get Taken Off The Streets, It's Something To Be Applauded. n/t

[L. Coyote]

7. Why can't they do this with corrupt Republicans? Catch a Bribe!

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. I don't like it

It's creepy.

[AZBlue]

9. I'm amused/scared by the number of men who walk into the room and say:

"Oh yeah, I've seen one of these shows before. I even wondered if that's what this was."

[melody]

10. I think it's terrific

More power to them.

[frylock]

11. i just don't understand who would get fired up to watch this shit on tv?

what makes those people tick?

[Individualist]

23. Nor do I

[Sparkly]

12. I'm not sure they do bait them.

I don't know exactly how they do this. If their decoys are just there in a chatroom and these guys come on to them, I don't think it's entrapment.

I think it's good to catch such predators, but I do think it's odd that it's become a form of entertainment, you know? There's something weird about that...

[freeplessinseattle]

50. I'm pretty sure I heard them say the decoy never makes the

first contact online. I was reading DU at the time, of course, multi-tasking, so I'm not totally sure, but it struck me for some reason.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Entrapment by non-transparent vigilantes

A despicable degradation of proper criminal procedure.

Quite frankly, I think the people who watch it are "perverted" too. A show about sickos for sickos.

[Cameron27]

14. It's too creepy for me so I don't watch it,

but it probably serves a purpose. I don't like to see it previewed or talked about on MSNBC's other news shows though, that annoys the hell out of me. I changed the channel on Abrams tonight.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. They need to spend that time exposing Bush and Cheney's crimes. nt

[SoonerPride]

16. Role playing fantasy. No crime is committed.

I can go online and say I'm a 14 year old girl. That doesn't make it so. I'm a 40 year old guy

If you talk dirty to me just because I pretend to be a 14 year old girl, what crime exactly is committed?

You can say you're a goat. Does that make me guilty of attempted bestiality?

Showing up at the home might show intent to do something, but since no minor was ever involved at any stage, it all seems highly dubious that any crime is committed.

It's thought crime. That's it.

[qazplm]

28. ummm

when these guys are mailing naked pics to a person they think is 14, then driving two hours with alcohol and condoms to a home where they think a 14 year old is alone, and they are clear they want to have sex.

Don't you think that doesn't just "might" show intent, it definitely shows intent?

The crime is attempted carnal knowledge or attempted lewd communications, and impossibility is not a defense to an attempt crime.

For every one of these guys where it is fake, there could be a time when it is your cousin or sister or daughter sucked into to this.

It may be a thought crime when they are typing on the messenger but when they send porn, and drive 2-3 hours, it becomes something a lot more than a thought crime.

[NYC Liberal]

30. The crime is "solicitation of a minor" or something similar, depending on state.

It is very real when these guys are not just chatting, but sending photos and driving hours to houses to "meet" their victims, bringing along condoms and booze.

Not to mention, a number of them say that they've done this before! Right on camera, even when asked several times.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. Ummm....No...

In roleplay it is understood that both parties are playing roles...In the present instance one party understood he was talking to an actual minor...

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Its total crap. nt.

[LoZoccolo]

19. I have only minor criticisms.

I don't object to televising a sting operation, but there are a few things they could do to improve it.

- When a child is abused, there is not always an investigative reporter to come to the rescue just before it happens. If they took five or ten minutes to teach parents and other people how to recognize when a child might have been abused, or how to prevent it, they would greatly increase the public service value of the show by only sacrificing coverage of about one bust.

- Sometimes the relationship between the vigilante group, the network, and the police becomes a little bit weird. I don't have a link, but I had heard that the vigilante group was temporarily deputized by one of the police departments while at the same time collecting a fee from the network. I am not comfortable with people in the employ of a corporation serving as an arm of the government, and they did not have to arrange things this way in order to carry out the sting operation. It's unclear to me why the deputization would have to take place if the real police are present the entire time.

[fishwax]

34. I think the reason they said it was necessary in that case was that

in whatever state they were in at the time, there was some law specifying that the bait/undercover agent had to be affiliated with the police, so for that location the perverted justice folk were deputized. I don't think they necessarily do that at every location, though of course I could be wrong.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. Whos worse--the scum hooking up with kids or the scum...

encouraging them and making a buck off of it?

If criminal prosecution is unlikely, WTF is the point of catching these guys, humiliating them for a bit, and then letting them go back home to try it again?

The point is that there are enough sleazy proto-perverts getting off watching this bullshit for them to make a bundle.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. The Few Shows I Watched Almost All The Stings Resulted In Pleas Or Convictions

I guess they are running into jurisdictional problems in some venues...

[Purveyor]

21. I believe these programs sexually 'turn-on' those most supportive of their entrapment techniques.

Ask any courthouse reporter and they will tell you that they have 'their regulars' who always make sure to be in the gallery for the 'rape/sexual assault' trials.

Just another form of perversion fulfillment, imho.

Enjoy you 'freaks'...

[milkyway]

22. I prefer "To Catch a Publican," but it's rarely on.

I've never seen the show, but I know it's corporate television so the purpose of the show is not to perform a public service, but to attract viewers. NBC must be proud that its cable news channel gives a large chunk of time to a show like this.

[LostInAnomie]

24. No matter which way you slice it, it is still exploitation of another's misery.

Sure these men are the scum of the earth, but I still take no joy in seeing what is essentially the ending of a life and the creation of a pariah class.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Men That Would Have Sex With Kids If They Find A Willing One Should Be Pariahs....

The damage they do is inestimable especially since most abusers were abused themselves...

[CitizenLeft]

25. the show itself creeps me out

...I don't know why it has entertainment value (no, I don't watch it). But I applaud them catching them before they hurt other children.

I understand the entrapment argument. But, once you get into your car and drive to a house to commit child molestation or have sex with a minor, you are fair game. I just don't think it should be aired on television. For one thing, predators are now aware of the show, and I'll bet some are more careful, now, and find other ways to prey on children. If there were no show, they might catch more of them.

Or... if it must be televised, why not have the profits go towards funding abused/missing children organizations?

[qazplm]

29. if they are being more careful

isnt that a good thing?

[CitizenLeft]

32. no... that's what I mean

...the show is probably making the more cunning perps find other ways to prey on the kids, making them harder to catch.

[LoZoccolo]

31. What's really weird though, is that...

...a surprising number of the guys they catch have seen or heard of the show before. I think there were like at least three or four on tonight's episode who had.

[CitizenLeft]

33. yeah, I can believe that

...I guess these are the ones so desperate, or so arrogant, that they risk getting caught anyway, or think they won't be.

[spindrifter]

27. It's scary that this crap

has lured so many people into thinking it's cool to entrap people. What if they were luring Democrats and promoting the idea that we need to get liberals off the streets because they might pervert the minds of little children? This is all done in order to gain viewers.

[eggman67]

35. They're fine by me

And if anyone believes that these men wouldn't have been out raping some kid without PJ then I have some fine swampland for sale.

[pinniped]

36. One episode busted a newly rehired cop from Alabama who happened....

to have a small arsenal in his truck. This scumbag drove to FL from Alabama.

He was reportedly fired 3 days after his arrest.

Another episode featured one dirtbag being busted twice.

It is quite apparent these people don't stop on their own.

[Swamp Rat]

37. It's macabre, perverse voyeurism

I don't mind the part about catching those sickos and locking them up, but to air it on TV is shamelessly repugnant.

If it wasn't for Keith Olbermann I wouldn't watch MSNBC.

[Midlodemocrat]

38. If it keeps just one pervert from 'hooking up' with a child

in a chat room for fear of being exposed, I think it's great.

That being said. I don't watch it. I can't stomach watching the excuses some of these perverts concoct.

[seabeyond]

39. i think it is sad as a society we see it as entertainment.

i dont like the show at all. and i have a hard time being neutral observing others finding a show like this as entertaining. (i dont like to make assumptions why this is entertaining for some) i have a tough time with a show like cops too. to be entertained by people that are at their most pathetic is a hard one for me.

[Ino]

48. Why I find it entertaining

I love this program. I never miss it. I enjoy seeing them get caught. I love hearing the same lies and excuses over and over. I especially like it if they cry. I don't care if their lives are ruined -- they were willing to ruin a child's life to make their sick fantasies come true. They thrive on secrecy, and this show exposes them. I hope their families, their friends, their neighbors, their workmates are watching it. I find it deeply satisfying, having been lied to and abused myself.

[live love laugh]

40. At first it was eye opening but now it's just exploitive sensationalism at its best. nt

[LiberalFighter]

41. If they catch and put away O'Liely... all the better

[Bright Eyes]

42. It isn't Entrapment as long as they don't

provoke a person to commit the crime. I'm sure many of the defendants will plead a defense of entrapment. However, they probably wouldn't have a legal leg to stand on...

[Bright Eyes]

45. If anyone is interested....

"However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity."
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

[IChing]

43. WHEN THEY CATCH A PRIEST

I will watch, we they really address that organize travesty of hypocrisy and rape.
I will watch.

[IChing]

44. How many of the predators do they ask?

What religion are you? Were you ever abused as a child?

I worked with child abusers professionally, all of them were repeating or mirroring behavior
they had witnessed or experienced.

The show catches nothing if it doesn't' seak the source and fountain of the abnormality.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. they already got a Rabbi... n/t

[Lone_Star_Dem]

46. I've thought this over for some time before answering

I can't comment on how the show is done since I don't watch it. All I know is what I've read on their website and in the news. Taking that into consideration I won't comment on if it's entrapment, or some other such thing, or not.

What I will comment on is programs such as this being considered entertainment. I'm simply not wired in a way that I enjoy watching people be arrested for attempted sexual crimes against children. It's a horrific crime and all the dramatics are not needed to make it more exciting for viewers. I suppose I feel they're making a circus out of a despicable crime that would be better handled by law enforcement officers. Perhaps if they did something like this once to raise awareness, then followed it up with how parents should not let their children run loose on the internet without supervision. Then I might feel differently. As it is now I think they're exploiting an odd voyeuristic tendency that people have rather than educating parents. I'm just not interested spending my leisure time viewing such.

[goodgd_yall]

47. I think the main purpose is to entertain

although it can be a learning experience for people who may still think only a certain type of person preys on 13-year-old girls (or boys). They've caught a well-known doctor, several Iraq War veterans, business owners, as well as construction workers and truck drivers. But I DON'T think it prevents anyone from preying on children. Furthermore, I don't believe the perpetrators are "baited." The undercover "underage girl" does not encourage the men. They make the first move and the following moves which usually include talking about or sending pictures of their genitals. She'll follow with "oh, that sounds like it could be fun" when a guy proposes coming over to meet her. That's about as much encouragement as she gives along with an address.

[Quantess]

59. Welcome !

:-)

[WindRavenX]

49. Sensationalized reality-drama

:thumbsdown:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I Am Ambivalent About The Show

But those men want to have sex with kids and if they found a ready, willing, and able kid they would do so....

That is just wrong...

[MagickMuffin]

54. Check out my link that discusses the issue of actually doing more harm than good

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1375616&mesg_id=1375616

The link above is a local news video concerning this show and how it has hampered the investigations. Everyone should take the time to view it, it's only a few minutes long and covers how the DA is angry at the show and the perverted justice people.

Someone has already committed suicide because of this show.

How many more will it take before this is taken off the air.

How would YOU feel if you were the one being pursued by law enforcers on national TV?!?!?

Personally I hate these kind of shows. I saw one episode and that was enough for me!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. The Show Is Exploitatative

Now that we are past that if an adult knowingly arranges a "date" to have sex with a minor and he believes it to be a minor whether that person is a minor or not he has committed a crime...

If the man who committed suicide was factually innocent I have empathy for him and his family...


As to your question "How would YOU feel if you were the one being pursued by law enforcers on national TV?!?!?"

I don't think the denizens at DU have anything to worry about...We aren't using the net to set up liaisons with kids...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. duplicate

[Lone_Star_Dem]

60. One of the things about this that concerns me

The people at "Perverted Justice" are paid to use coercion to get these predators to show up. And yet on occasion they've been unable to provide the preliminary chat logs. It makes it impossible to prove that the "victim" didn't start out saying they're 18 and then say, "hey, I'm into being a naughty little girl. Let's pretend I'm 13 or 14."

I cannot help but feel things such as this are best handled by police officers trained in the law.

[annabanana]

58. Sad, Sick & Disgusting. . I can't watch it.. . . .n/t