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Yesterday on hardball a "VetsForFreedom" idiot

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Dragonbreathp9d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 07:59 AM
Original message
Yesterday on hardball a "VetsForFreedom" idiot
made me wonder why he is not going back to Iraq. My friend's older brother is about to start his forth tour (!) and this slick fucker on TV only did one (maybe two). Think there was any incentive, like, say, not having to go back to Iraq if he came out to supprot the war, make the rounds, serve the machine in another fashion?
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. it reminded me
a lot of the Swift Boat Liars-since there are groups of Iraq vets against the war they had to have a counterpoint
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. RE: "My friend's older brother is about to start his forth tour". Do you know how many months for
the first three tours?
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Dragonbreathp9d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm not sure
I know for (at least) one of them he was extended
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I asked because I read a letter this morning in the Press-Enterprise, Riverside, CA that claimed
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 08:36 AM by jody
Army Reserve Sgt. Erik Botta's four deployments total 10 or 11 months, not even enough time to complete one normal tour. I dont know whether the claim is true or false.
Accept deployment

"Fifth deployment" has to be the most misleading term I have read in some time ("Army Reservist fighting fifth deployment," July 14).

Four deployments really get your attention. But when you read further, you find that Army Reserve Sgt. Erik Botta's four deployments total 10 or 11 months, not even enough time to complete one normal tour.

Military life is not easy. But in my 20-year career, I never heard anyone say it would be. I recall rotation back to the United States being frozen during the Korean War and receiving a phone call to report to my squadron.

After a briefing, we were on an airplane headed for missions in Vietnam. That was without ever going back home, being able to call my family or anything else. I never thought of asking a federal judge to stop any deployment, mission, ground alert or airborne alert, and I never would have done it even if I had thought of it.

CHARLES R. HANSEN
Riverside


ON EDIT ADD
The Idaho Statesman reports in Reservist tries to stop 5th deployment Botta was deployed to Afghanistan for about seven months in 2002. He then had three deployments to Iraq - about a month in 2003, three months in 2004 and 15 days later that year.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. one of my friends has a grandson that is on tour number 3
the first two were each over one year.

So this will be his third year on active duty in Iraq/Afghanistan.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I also have friends on their third tour with the first two each over one year. n/t
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
4. How Do Ya Think He Got To Stay Stateside???
That group reminds me of O'Neill's one during Vietnam...a front by the GOOPers to astroturf the notion that the military is still behind the war. It's a direct reaction to IAVA...and meant to distort and "balance" them on our beloved corproate media.

Has anyone followed the money on these boys? It'd be interesting to see what they're doing now that they're out of the military...also who is "donating" to their organization.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Exactly! I tried to yesterday. Their site is clearly not put up
by a group of gung ho vets, but by hos.

It gets so you can pick these bastards out of a crowd, you know?
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. This One Didn't Take More Than A Click...
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Vets_for_Fre...

It took me seconds to get the info...(which I had seen last night :spank:) and wanted to see how quick others could find it as well. As always, DU'ers don't miss a beat!

What is obscene in this mess is how complicit the corporate media is with these groups. Tweety sure has to know this goon is a paid hack and whose paying him...but HAD to use him..."balance" ya know.

You've just met the next John O'Neill...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I have to bookmark this because I always forget about sourcewatch!
This little pimp was on CSPAN last week and I knew right away because he had that slickness that real grassroots activists don't have -- that manufactured cheeriness and of course, BushCo talking points.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. An IAVA Member Would Eat His Lunch
Dig deeper into the Slime Boat money and you'll start finding the connections Morton Blackwell and Finkelstein and the real money keeping these slime machines alive...and also has infested the media. Our little buddy Mr. Gunkert is right at the crossroads.

:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. We need a thread on how to follow the money. I usually
first check their site -- but the front groups rarely have anything listed. Then, I try opensecrets. But sourcewatch is much more direct. Thanks! mxmolly and I went fishing without much luck yesterday.

And, what's up with CSPAN having this little sellout on? It wasn't even Fascist Friday!
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. There's So Much Beneath The Surface Here
If you may remember during the Gunkert/Gannon mess, a group of us started to snoop into the many shell companies and political connections that extended throughout both Texas and with various East coast and betlway "consultant". One lead went right to Morton Blackwell's "journalism school" that Gunkert graduated from. We couldn't get a list of other 'graduates'. Also listed as a "fellow" was one Robert Novak. This was quite a while ago...but I'm sure this operation is still very much alive...and I suspect Barbara Comstock and other merry pranksters are also tied in.

This goes to the heart of their very successful astroturfing operation and how its infested the corporate media...including C-SPAN. C-SPAN gets its money from the major cable companies...not the government...and they've been part of the GOOP astroturfing operation since it began...remember Gnewt speaking an empty house.

Oh well...too much to chew on at once. :rofl:

This is just some of the REAL enemy we have to face...the disinformation campaigns that provide a smokescreen for this regime and its criminals.

:toast:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I remember that "journalism" school -- because Andy and I
and others were digging around. And we've caught CSPAN redhanded many times, not on only WJ but also on BookTV. A couple of weeks ago, I caught them trying to infiltrate LINKTv! And because it was in a bilingual format, they got right by the fact checkers! But, they didn't get by me. :evilgrin:

:toast:



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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. One of the founders supported Naders campaign
The contact person for VFF's press releases is Adriel Domenech<13>, VFF's "Field Director".<14>

...

In Fall 2001, Domenech, a graduate of Texas A&M who interned with the Republican National Committee, had completed the Colorado campaign and was a "72-Hour Director in Arkansas"<17> for Bush-Cheney '04 Inc..<18>

In August 2004, Domenech's name was found amongst recognized "Republican signatures on petitions to get third-party candidate Ralph Nader on the presidential ballot in Arkansas." At the time, a "news release from the Democratic Party of Arkansas said at least two dozen state Republicans, including Lt. Gov. Win Rockefeller's chief of staff, had signed the petitions to get Nader included on the state ballot. ... Conventional political wisdom that Nader take votes from the Democratic nominee." <19>


*cough*
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Ain't Fact Checking Fun...
This is just one layer of a very large onion. During the Gannon/Gunkert scandal a few years ago, several of us tried to trace all the tangled little webs that funded his "online" publication and how it came to be. We found links to wealthy Texans like Domenesch and others who had ties to Rove and DeLay and then to the East coast "journalism" school Gunkert went to...and all the PACs and money laundering foundations inbeween.

IRC, it was someone on DU who outted Nader in '04...opensecrets is great resource on a lot of this stuff, and even they can't get more than a few layers deep.

Cheers...

:hi:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. It is, thanks so much for the info!
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 12:25 PM by mzmolly
The incestuous relationship between Nader and Republicans becomes more clear each day. It seems behind every faux front group is a Nader movement. ;)

:hi:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Bingo!
http://www.prwatch.org/node/4980/print

"Vets for Freedom," the 2006 Version of Swift Boat Vets

Geoff Gray writes, "what looks to be a 2006 version of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth <1> has formed. The putatively grassroots organization called Vets for Freedom <2> has been offering up decorated, interview-ready soldiers to, as its website puts it <3>, 'promote the unbiased, nonpartisan truth of military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, to educate the public and mobilize public support for the Global War on Terror <4>.' Their offensive started in April, when former Bush press secretary Taylor Gross <5> ... tempted newspaper editors ... with inexpensive war coverage'unbiased perspectives' that 'would not be at any significant cost.' Gross had no takers. Then, over Memorial Day, Owen West <6>, a Goldman Sachs commodities trader, Marine reservist, and adventure-book author published an op-ed in the Times <7> in which he lashed out against war opponents ... . John Stauber <8>, executive director of the Center for Media and Democracy <9>, thought the Vets Website looked suspiciously un-grassroots. ... The groups Website is hosted by Campaign Solutions <10>, a high-profile political consultancy that does Republican-campaign web work. Clients have included Bush-Cheney 04 and the Swift Boat Vets. 'Vets for Freedom are the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth' of the 06 cycle, says Stauber."
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Kit Bond referenced them last night during the filibuster
so we know the Thugs in the Senate all got the memo.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. The Mighty Wurlitzer In Action...
You gotta believe this goon was planted on Tweety just to get the talking point out for the "debate". It's the typical "bounce and fly" game we saw so many times...have someone plant a quote or drop a soundbite in the WAPO or on Tweety and the hate radio crowd and the GOOP sock puppets will echo it thus creating a "credibility".

Look at the treatment Tweety gives MoveOn

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/17/chris-matthews... /

Pathetic...

This is our biggest obstacle right now...breaking through the corporate media spin chamber.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I agree 100%. n/t
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. I listened to the show and it seemed to further illustrate that,
contrary to the common myth, having been on the front lines doesn't necessarily make someone any smarter.
What these "experts" cannot seem to surround in this "war" is the same weapon that proved effective in VietNam.

The invading or occupying force is going to be under pretty heavy stress and apt to respond to any threat, real or perceived, with excessive force.
When GIs were anywhere near a hamlet, a sniper or any of half a hundred death traps-IEDs, suicide bombers and snipers in this occupation-would only have to kill one GI and the overreaction often would lead them to wipe out half the village, creating more enemies.
This technique is always effective if the occupier remains too long as a uniformed and force-wielding master.

In their efforts to create a "conservative" republican utopia in Iraq, the ignorant savages who head up the neo-cons and leaders of our republic dawdled too long, trying to enforce their unthinking policies, and created the mess we have now. The outcome is exquisitely predictable, to even a history dilettante.
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