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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:53 PM
Original message
I think I'm gonna be sick....



Barack Obama: Putting faith out front

By Ariel Sabar Mon Jul 16, 5:00 AM ET

CHICAGO - On a recent Sunday, the magnetic pastor who led Barack Obama to Christianity was at his usual perch on the dais here, a South Side megachurch where a plaque beneath stained-glass depictions of the African-American struggle reads "Unashamedly Black, Unapologetically Christian."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070716/ts_csm/aobama

I hate to break it to ya Barack, the democrats tried this before, it don't work. Like John Kerry with the fucking duck hunt.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Do you know for a fact whether Obama is religious or not? If so, how so? nt
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. You think he's faking?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I asked you a question since you sounded like you made an assumption. nt
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. He said "I am unapologetically Christian" I think that means he's religious
Just my tiny little brains' interpretation.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Why would that make you sick? I see nothing wrong with that. nt
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markk Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. I think 99% of people claiming to be religious are faking it
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Especially politicians
They're saying it because pollsters tell them it's suicide NOT to say you've found Jesus these days.

.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. I think that 99% of people who make blanket assumptions about any large group ...
are either lazy or stupid.
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I think there should be a new forum for quoting percentages.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. 99% of DUers disagree with you.

:hide:
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. 100% of posters named Bravo live in their moms basement
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 04:31 PM by churchofreality
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Sorry, Ace, this is why you need to leave yourself that 1% wiggle room.
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 04:50 PM by 11 Bravo
I'm a 56 year old father of two. (And 11 Bravo - light weapons infantryman, ie: grunt - was my MOS when I served in the US Army way back while attending classes at the University of A Shau Valley.) But, hey, your's was still a really clever riposte, I never heard Mom's basement invoked before.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #39
45.  !!! n/t
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #13
42. That's an odd opinion. Are you considering, e.g., the world's Muslims?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. He's a long time member of Trinity UCC
which is a very liberal congregation in Chicago. No, he's not faking it and no, he's not pandering. He's taking the name back from the thieves and charlatans on the right.

Unfortunately, those thieves and charlatans have given Christianity such a bad name that a lot of us get a little queasy when any politician boasts of the label.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I had read he was religious in his own way/right; I get tired of people
making assumptions, or thinly veiled accusations, with nothing to back it up.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Right.
Kind of makes you wonder what their agenda is.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. The physically ill go to a hospital. The spiritually ill go to a church.
:evilgrin:

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I DARE you to start a thread with that sentiment!
:spray:
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Toasterlad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
47. It's On His Website
He's the only Democratic presidential candidate to a "politics and faith" section on their site, BTW.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. No national politician
does himself any harm by touting his Christianity.

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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. That's why I'm against it.
It's a tool. And it is on the edge of being against the spirit of the Constitution. Personally, I'm against mixing religion and politics no matter what side you're on. For awhile there, I felt differently, but I finally gave in to my gut feeling that religion is bad news.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. oh, I don't like it either.
I'm an atheist, and I wish they'd all shut the fuck up about it. But I was just pointing out the reality that it doesn't hurt any candidate to play it up.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. If I had to choose between liberal religion...
...and conservative religion, I'd take liberal any day.

But what I'd REALLY like to see is religion out of American politics entirely. I'm looking forward to the day someone can become President in this country without invoking the Name of God more often than the f*cking Pope.
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I agree with that.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. He's got the Freeper-sponsored "Muslim" suspicion about him--
no reason NOT to embrace his Christianity--it only helps.
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. I guess in that context, yes it does.
But overall, I think there is a feeling that one needs to court the fundies because of the 2004 election.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rev. Wright sounds like a stand up guy to me
Against domestic abuse, homophobia, etc. and for equal rights for ALL? Sounds like someone who took Jesus's words to heart.

Hell, I wish he'd run for office instead of Obama.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Good For Him! I Respect Him For That. I'm Proud As Hell Of Obama.
Not sure why you're sick to your stomach, but I hope you have some tums to aid you.

Thanks for the article though. It's a great read about one of our shining stars.

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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I like him alot, I'm just sick of democrats thinking that acting like a republican
Will help you win.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'm just sick
of people who equate having a religious faith to being Republican.

The GOP does not own the cross, and statements like yours don't help.
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. I'm saying that the media tried to convince us that we lost in 2004
because we weren't Christ'ey enough.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Thanks, Will.
I am a person of faith (Christian, as it were), and I can't tell you how tiresome it is to regularly see all Christians tarred as RW fundy nutjobs.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Being religious = acting like a republican?
I find your math illogical.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I'm Sick Of Those Who Bash The Slightest Whiff Of Religion Every Chance They Get.
So we're not allowed to have deep personal faith now? Fuck that.

Intolerance is ignorance. Like I said, I'm proud of him and what he stands for.
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Have whatever the fuck you want, just don't make a big fucking deal
about it
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Why? What's the harm?
n/t
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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I'm talking about in general, for a candidate.
Because I think the intent is to pander.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
40. That Ain't For You To Decide Pal. There Ain't A Goddamn Thing Wrong With Talking About Ones Faith.
Should gay people stay in the closet? Should minorities drink from different fountains? Should women shut up and just do the cleaning? Obviously those things would be absurd. Telling those with deep faith to shut up and keep it to themselves is just as bigoted and ignorant.
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11 Bravo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Nailed it, OMC.
Even when I don't agree with you, you manage to cut through all the bullshit.

:toast:
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. I'm sick of people who can't tell the difference...
...between criticizing something, and saying it's "not allowed".

Someone who's tired of candidates wearing their religion on their sleeve = Someone who isn't going to allow anyone "to have deep personal faith now"?

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churchofreality Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Thanks for that, you're right.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. The 'We' Meant Democratic Candidates.
The poster was oh so disgusted that a Democratic candidate had deep spiritual faith. Put the OP together with the screenname of the poster, and it is fairly easy to ascertain that it goes a bit deeper.

I'd wager that the poster is disgusted not solely because they believe Obama to be pandering (though to think so is fairly ignorant), but because the exposure to deep faith itself disgusts the poster. That's my perception and you're entitled to yours.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Even if the poster in question...
...were disgusted by "exposure to deep faith", that's still not the same thing as the poster saying that you, I, she, he, we, or they aren't/am not/isn't allowed to have "deep faith".

You're focusing on the issue of a pronoun when the whole point of my comment was the difference between criticizing and disallowing. You seem to be under the impression that someone is out to disallow something.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Oy Vey.
Sometimes, a reader must have the mental capacity to figure concepts out for themselves. Since that concept seems to have failed here, I'll explain further.

When I said 'allow', it wasn't meant in the way of its core technical meaning to infer that I actually thought the poster was attempting to outright ban such behavior. That much should've seemed obvious based on the context in which it was said. Instead, common sense would dictate that in the terms it was spoken, there was an 'understood' inherent afterwards, as in : "We're not allowed to have deep personal faith now (without having to be subjected to melodramatic ignorant outrage)?".

See, the latter part was to be understood by the reader, since the premise would've been obvious and of common sense. I'm a bit amazed you perceived it as having meant something different. But what can ya do. :shrug:
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. It's a matter of overused, overblown rhetoric.
Yes, I know that you know that there wasn't a law or constitutional amendment on the table here barring expression of religion. But whenever I see "allow" used this way, there's quite often an emotional indignation there of someone reacting as if someone else truly is threatening to restrict their rights and freedoms in some terrible way beyond, oh, merely having to face contrary opinions out there in the world.

If anyone has anything to complain about when it comes to public attitudes so strong that they practically have the force of law, it's an atheist. Try running for office being openly atheist. Try actually speaking about atheism on the campaign trail. We all know that's political suicide.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. It's A Matter Of Not Being An Intolerant Bigot.
Some here go way overboard in their derision of anything pertaining to religious faith. It's quite sad to see such ignorance. (And no, that isn't directly to you)
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. I don't see Obama "trying" anything
This is a story about Obama's history regarding religion and his time in the church. And that plaque "Unashamedly Black, Unapologetically Christian" is not specifically related to Obama at all; it just hangs in the church.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. Precisely what has Obama done that makes you feel ill?
He belongs to a church and identifies himself publicly as christian. He makes no bones about the importance of his faith to him personally.

So far, I see things that he has in common with Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter. Even JFK, whose speech on religious tolerance and separation of state should be mandatory reading for every politician still noted that he would not disavow either his views or his church in order to win election.
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. I agree with you onenote....
I also agree with Al Sharpton who so cleverly said that "it's time for the christian RIGHT to meet the RIGHT christians.

As an African American, (a very loyal Democratic voting bloc), I fail to see how any mention of religion causes such ire by some on the left. If Obama, like Bush, claims to be spiritually lead while at the helm of the Presidency, then I might see a problem. But just mentioning that you're a person of faith shouldn't disqualify one from political office.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
51. NO PREACHERS FOR PRESIDENT! nt
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
52. Pandering Politicians are everywhere. all the time.
It's all so infantile. It's admitting that apparently, religious people cannot live one minute of one day without calling on their saviour.. :puke:.. Like a big ole blankie..

I long for the days when people worshipped on sunday and spent the rest of the week in the secualr world with everyone else.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
53. He ain't tryin' shit. He is what he is.
And Kerry does hunt btw.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
54. Should he have talked about baseball instead? n/t
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