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can we quit pretending that the "democrats" in the Senate

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:59 AM
Original message
can we quit pretending that the "democrats" in the Senate
learned anything at all from the last 7 years and the 2006 election?

They are rolling over on the phony intelligence and lies about Iran just like they did on Iraq.

The Congressional "democrats" really are playing Washington Generals to the oligarchy's Globetrotters.

I can't sustain this anger for long without blowing a gasket.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. When were you pretending that?
I can't recall you ever saying anything positive about Congressional Democrats. It's possible I missed it.

Bryant
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. with a few exceptions, I haven't said anything positive lately
because there hasn't been anything positive to say

I was optimistic until about March, when it started to become apparent that the congressional "democrats" (with a few exceptions) are on the side of the same capitalist oligarchy served by the bush cabal.

The Senate rushing unanimously down the IWR path on the way to war with Iran is the latest example
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well maybe tomorrow will be an up day
There are unsubstantiated reports that Fiengold has something planned for tomorrow --> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

We'll have to see what happens.

Bryant
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. he's one of the occasional exceptions
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. BTW
apparently, most at DU believe there is a class war.

class war poll
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I saw that
I don't really know what to say about it, except that I suppose it is just another way I differ from much of DU.

It's too complicated an issue to grapple with here; because while I would argue that there are elements of a class war inherient in the American economic system, and it's clear that the deck is stacked in favor of the corporate heads, I don't know that the internal logic of a class war is all that helpful in understanding what to do next.

In other words if the system is stacked against the poor and the working class, than it would seem to imply that we need to look at dismantling/destroying the system. A few fixes and tweaks won't do it.

And I'm more in the fixes and tweaks camp.

Bryant
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. the "System" doesn't explain the escalation of the last generation
it doesn't explain the ultra RW obsession with destroying the New Deal
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ah - well it depends on what you mean
If the system is a problem, than FDR's reforms were just a band-aid on a much larger problem. FDR, being one of the wealthy, proclaimed a series of minor corrections to make the system more palatable in the midst of the Great Depression. It's hard to remember how bad things were in those days, and likewise hard to gauge the potential for revolution. But FDRs problems, as the thinking goes, were never intended to fix the problems. Just paper over them until such time as the potential for revolution dimmed and the ruling class could once more crush the workers underfoot.

Bryant
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. the neocons are right, albeit for the wrong reasons
the people will never rise up and overthrow the oligarchy until the oppression become intolerable
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. How does a class war necessarily mean the system is stacked
Isn't it more about how the wealthy rig the system in order to enhance their power? In other words they have done their own tweaks - as in Reagan tax cuts, Reagan tax increases, and Bush tax cuts, etc.
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JacquesMolay Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Senate is THE SYSTEM.
I've said this a couple of times before. Remember the scene in Fahrenheit 9/11 where the black congressmen were raising hell about the stolen election, and the Senators (esp. Leahy) stood there stone-faced, like they were breaking code at the country club? That was the face of the system. The fact is, they all take money from the same companies in the military-industrial complex, most all of them are rich and detached from the concerns you and I have every day.

And it was set up that way - when Madison was drawing up the constitution (see the Federalist papers), he knew he needed an instituion to protect the system from 'over-democritization'. That's why Senators have the longest terms - they can't be removed easily. It also allows geographic blocs to slow down legislation there (e.g. banning slavery). The constitution had to be amended to allow direct election of Senators. They used to be chosen by the state legislatures - the power brokers and barons just picked a prominent rich guy and installed him.

The Senate is the system - it was designed to ward off the little hurts democracy might put on the powerful
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. I give them till thursday...
if they don't hall in miers to testify, then it's over. This is my last chance. she violated a subpoena to appear, if she doesn't show and they don't arrest her, then it's over for america.

Until then I will keep my sarcasm brief. yeah right...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. I called both Dianne and Barbara today and asked their staff
wtf were they doing censuring IRAN when IRAN is not the problem.

And was met with the usual bs.

I don't care how much they try to shake me off. I'm just going to keep doing it until their heads explode.

:mad:

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