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It's clear now: By September, Bush will have started a war with Iran

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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:05 AM
Original message
It's clear now: By September, Bush will have started a war with Iran
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 09:22 AM by berni_mccoy
The reason the Bush admin wants us to wait until September, or more accurately, is pleading with GOP dissenters to wait, is that by then, there will be no way to withdraw. The Bush admin will have started a war with Iran. It's also clear that the intent isn't to engage in a ground war, but rather, a bombing and missile campaign. This would be completely disastrous, not only for our soldiers in Iraq, but also for the world. Our already strained relations with China and Russia, as well as the entire Middle East, brings into question the sanity of those who would seek yet another agressive initiation of war. This would be direct, knowing disruption of Russia and China's oil supply and another inconsistent policy toward a Muslim nation (think Korea).

Yes, be sure, it is indeed coming unless Congress puts a stop to it. But what is even more frightening is that Congress is already showing signs of approval with the Senate's unanimous vote last week on a resolution declaring that Iran's actions have been acts of war. Have the Democrat's forgotten Cheney's 1% doctrine insane policy? I doubt it. And that is what worries me the most.

Edit to Add
The writing is on the wall:

Cheney Pushes Bush to Act on Iran (Almost half of U.S. 277 warships stationed close to Iran)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"Wait until September (to call for an Iraq exit) ," republican Sen. Collins was told by Condi Rice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Senate unanimously declared that Iran was committing acts of war against the US
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. You mean Cheney will have started it and his little front man
just sits there drooling on himself the whole time, don't you?
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. Soldiers don't count to War Presidents and their Gangsters...
just oil, cash and poll numbers...
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. What Army do you suppose he is going to fight this war with?
I ask because the one he's got is tied up right now.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Mostly, Navy/Airforce: many bombing campaigns, possibly use of tac. nuke
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shain from kane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. "As you know, you have to go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you want," Rumsfeld said.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. These guys?
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 10:41 AM by Tesha
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Men_of_Dunharrow



But he's got to find someone brave enough to
ride off and raise them and negotiate with
their king Joe Lieberman, leader of the
Oathbreakers:



Tesha
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. that is when the PEOPLE will have to STOP the madness.
i am prepared to march on the capitol...anyone else?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. Count me in.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. we need at least a million of us to shake these people up.
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. i would hope that it would be much more than that.
nt
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
6. Cheney needs to be stopped at all costs. Time is running out. n/t
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. him and what army? Are you talking about an aerial assault or troops on the ground?
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Air (bombings), Navy (missiles) no ground troops.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. i don't think it's going to happen, i think Iran is a good "Look over there" and
"Not at Iraq" diversion. Nothing would make the people of Iran more nationalistic than bombing the shit out of their cities, no matter how much they may hate their own government they'd hate us more.

Now having said that i will tell you that my bil was born and raised in Iran and his sister, nephew, bil and various other family members still live in Tehran so yes the Iran issue worries me.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Have you seen this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
(current cover story on DU: Cheney pushing Bush to start war with Iran)

And this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
(Condi pleading with Collins to not join with GOP dissent until September)

And the article last week about unanimous (97-0) vote in Senate on Resolution declaring Iran's "acts of war"?

The writing is on the wall.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
43. And this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Iran Asks Japan to Pay Yen for Oil, Start Immediately (Update1)

By Megumi Yamanaka

July 13 (Bloomberg) -- Iran asked Japanese refiners to switch to the yen to pay for all crude oil purchases, after Iran's central bank said it's cutting holdings of the U.S. dollar.


With this bunch of war criminals for OIL in the WH (and to some extent: in Congress...): consider it DONE. :cry:
:mad:
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. Pehaps The Congressional Democrats Want Another War
It would further cement Democratic victories next year.

I hope this is not the case - but it wouldn't surprise me very much: Just after the Iraq War started, my friend's neighbor tells us she asked our Rep, the ever-candid Barney Frank, as to why so many Democrats voted for the IWR. She says that Frank replied "to give Bush enough rope to hang himself".
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. I have to think that would backfire (as I think Frank's reasoning backfired) when
the public perceives that the Democrats are once again unable to think or stand up for themselves, to say nothing of the country's best interests.

Did Congressman Frank wonder why the 2002 elections went so badly?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. I Just Want To Be Clear - Barney Himself Voted Against The IWR
And I can't swear to the veracity of my friend's neighbor. But I have no reason to believe that it's *not* true, either.
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. Thanks - I was surprised to hear of Rep. Frank going along with such a thing,
but that sure does sound similar to the rationalizing we've been hearing, even on these boards, that there being troops in Iraq is good for the Democrats' political prospects. I would not be surprised to hear the same sorry reasoning applied elsewhere, too.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. well barney, he's hung a lot of innocents along with himself.
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Wouldn't look good...
Unlike the Iraqi quagmire that's bogged Bush down for 4 years-and-counting, Iran has a real military, don't they?

:scared:
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. Maybe it's time the Iranians
realized that Cheney and Bush are insane people who are heavily armed. Provoking them is dangerous. The Iranians can wait with their nuclear power program for a few years. At a given point provoking the US to attack will get an attack.

The Iranians (as well as everyone else in the world) is right about one thing. Having nuclear weapons may come in handy after 2012 in the event the Republicans steal the election again.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
16. Russia is the worlds No 1 oil producer and 2nd in exports just behind KSA
Any strife in the Middle East that disrupts the flow of Spice plays right into their hand.

As for China, their import requirements are so insignificant to ours, they will simply outbid us, using our Wal-mart dollars, on what remains of the export market. China will take the long view in that an attack on Iran will further degrade US interests in Asia and the Middle East, providing them with an opportunity. The refrain 'fuck you, we sell to China' will be common.

No, I think China and Russia are going to play the 'if the enemy is destroying themselves, don't get in the way' card, as they know there is no way the US will benefit in the long run from an aerial attack on Iran.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I'm not saying they would become involved
I am saying that our relations with them are as bad as they have been since the end of the cold war. Having even worse relations with those two is going to effect our economy and our national security in very bad ways.
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. More evidence?
Bomb-laden 'Reaper' drones bound for Iraq

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-07-15-reap...


Pace: Another troop build up possible

http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/international/index.ssf?...



Air Force Increasing Presence In Iraq
July 15, 2007 10:40 a.m. EST

Nicole King - AHN News Writer

Balad Air Base, Iraq (AHN) - The Air Force is beginning a new campaign of increased presence in Iraq, including increasing U.S. ground troops and bombing. Since last year, the air reconnaissance arm has doubled.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7007910108


Posted on Sun, Jul. 15, 2007
Air siege grows amid debated surge
By CHARLES J. HANLEY
The Associated Press
BALAD AIR BASE, Iraq -- Away from the headlines and dispute over the "surge" in U.S. ground troops, the Air Force has quietly built up its hardware inside Iraq, sharply stepped up bombing and laid a foundation for a sustained air campaign in support of American and Iraqi forces.

Squadrons of attack planes have been added to the in-country fleet. The air reconnaissance arm has almost doubled since last year. The powerful B1-B bomber has been recalled to action over Iraq.
http://www.star-telegram.com/279/story/169654.html
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. Just what was on the agenda when Putin recently met with DimWit and his Daddy?
Hmmmmmm. (not just missile defense shields)

Navy guy to replace Pace.

Warships positioned in the Gulf.

Junior gonna resume his full August vacation this year?

:scared:
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. can * not come back after his vacation.
let's change the locks on the WH. Don't you wish?
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. I don't doubt he'll bomb Iran.
He's a thoughtless prick and doesn't give a crap about the consequences of his actions.
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arewenotdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. And he has the mendacity to actually tell the sheeple how
his "heart breaks" for the dead soldiers and their families.

Bush does not give one iota of a fuck.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Funny, I thought we were supposed to attack Iran before Nov 2006
And before that it was going to be before Nov 2004. I certainly hope nobody back then was holding their breath. They might be a bit oxygen deprived by now...
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. Oughta be interesting when..
.. the Iranians fight back.

What will we do then!??
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. Where will they get the troops?
*gulp
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. They won't need troops to start the war (I mention bombs and missiles, not a ground war)
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. And Iran would fight back against the nearest Americans
that happen to be next door in Iraq right now.

I think we're just seeing a lot of saber-rattling and tough-talk in an attempt to get Iran to back down on their nuclear program. I really don't see military action happening.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
31. People say the same thing every few months.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. But last week, the Senate passed a motion to censure Iran.
I know the rumors have been flying for more than a year now, but, but . . . :(
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Wonder if this is to placate Joe and keep Democratic control in Senate?
Just wondering?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
36. What can we do? I'm sure this is right.
And, that's a real question.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. I don't belive this for a second
just want to be on record. it will not happen.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I hope that you are right, and would gladly be wrong.
Unfortunately, when you read all the related materials I posted, it certainly points in that direction. I believe these criminals in the White House are just crazy enough to do it.
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. oh, they certainly are crazy enough
but their republican allies in Congress will not tie their ships to the neo-con anchor any more. unless Iran attacks (or is framed for an attack) us or our allies first, we will not invade.

i suppose a gulf of tonkin moment is not out of the question...but we will not pre-emptively strike another Muslim country. the ramifications would be severe and the Bush admin knows it.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I agree as well
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 02:44 PM by DFW
This is the one point where Wes Clark and I disagreed last winter,
and it scared me because his IQ must be somewhere between 50 and 100
points higher than mine, but I don't see it happening without some kind
of brazen provocation from Iran. Ahmadi Nejad is nuts, but not completely
nuts, and shrewd, too. I think he sees what he can get away with and what
he can't get away with. He has much in common with Cheneybush in that he
is out to see what he can get away with, and is not overly concerned about
whether he has broad support or not.

But if Cheneybush orders an attack on Iran, a few consequences will have to
have been pondered, even by this White House. Invasion is out of the question,
as we don't have the troops to spare for it, and, the Republicans being
essentially cowards, they will be reluctant to invade a country where they
know in advance that the people will shoot back. I promise you that this
time, not even Langley will paint pictures of flowery welcomes.

Ergo--what options? Bom, bomb, bomb--bomb, bomb Iran. That is it. Period.
And if they do? They will practically have to obliterate the whole country,
and it is not exactly a small place. Otherwise, we will creat about 40 million
newly fanaticized Muslim America-haters, where a goodly part of today's Iran
hates the conservative Mullahs, and wishes for good relations with the USA.
The first shot of any conflict with Iran will be aimed squarely at our own foot.

We have practically nothing to gain (we meaning America, not Halliburton),
and plenty to lose. I just don't see anyone going along with this. There
are clauses in place where the military does not have to obey the CIC if
there is credible evidence that he has lost his marbles. If Bush orders an
attack on Iran, I'd say that this fulfills the requirement for insanity.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
42. Not close enough to affect the primaries. He'll wait a bit n/t
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