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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:53 AM
Original message
X-post: Political compass has the 2008 field up on the map.
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Redbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. 10 out of 12 are right-wing authoritarians

Who knew?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. If Gravel Or Kucinich Aren't Our Nominee I'm Not Voting
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 09:29 AM by DemocratSinceBirth
J/K
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
15. No kidding, since there's no clear diffference between Edwards and Thompson!
:rofl:

Wait for it, you know that someone is going to say it.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Actually, it's better if you vote and write in someone.
It won't effect the outcome, but your dissent will be on record, and it makes it harder for them to lie about "landslides" when one wins.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I wrote my dad in once on a county election. He thought hat was pretty cool.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Ha! That would be pretty cool.
There's an official document somewhere with "(your dad's name): 1 vote" on it, although most of the reports published would probably lump it in the "less than 1%" or "other" category.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. Yeah, I like to think he got the name and one vote treatment.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. Actually, I'm Fairly Certain It's Better If You Actually Vote For The Dem.
That way, you're trying to help the country AND not being a complete ignorant moron at the same time.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. You can't go two posts without calling someone else stupid, can you? - n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. Well Doing Such A Thing Would Be Stupid, Would It Not?
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 09:26 AM by OPERATIONMINDCRIME
I said it would be stupid to vote for other than the Dem. And it would be.

And there is nothing wrong with calling out premises rooted in stupidity when they are presented. In fact, we all should do so.

Do you think it's smart to vote against the Democratic candidate and do a small part to help enable further republican victory? Not sure if you do, but I certainly don't. I find the act to be monumentally stupid.

Don't like that opinion? Too bad, so sad.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. I think people that constantly call others stupid are stupid themselves.
I don't care what stupid people think.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Being Able To Recognize Stupidity In Premise Does Not Make One Stupid.
It makes one objective and of rational mind.

Not voting for the Dem would be just quite simply, stupid.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. You seem to think I care about your opinion. - n/t
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Your Care Is Irrelevant As To My Desire To Put My Opinion Forth.
I issue my opinions because I simply want to; not because I think you want me to.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. Yep, your need to continually reassert your opinion is one of the reasons you suck.
But I'll defend your right to do it, even if it means keeping your retarded drivel kicked.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Oh Get Over It.
:hi:
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. I was before it started. - n/t
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
63. don't plan on voting then...because neither of them will be the nominee.
nt
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Results
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.97
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hmmmmm.
I'm not sold on that test. Did they have the candidates take it? Or did they score it based on their statements?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Probably The Latter
...
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Statements, voting records, public stands on issues. How they would score if they
took the test privately would be very interesting.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. Hmmm... so where would Al fall?
and would a 2007 Gore fall in the same spot as a 2000 Gore?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I was wondering the same thing. If he jumps in I am sure we will find out.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. we could find out
Answer the questions the way you think Gore would, and post the result.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. No Gore, but I've found the ratings they gave the 2004 Democratic candidates
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. No surprise there.
If you pay attention to the candidates' records.

It's also no surprise that I should favor Kucinich. I always appear further to the southwest, so to speak, than both he and Gravel.

I'd like to see all those authoritarians to the right of center would quit trying to label themselves "liberals," or even "centrists."

Not that I'm holding my breath, lol.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. No Inventory Is Perfect...
I consider myself to be a a "center-left" thinker but the compass puts me to the left of Gandhi...

Go figure...

Or maybe I'm more liberal than I thought...
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's about where I am.
Of course no inventory is perfect. In addition to a window for error, I think that seeming "mismatch" comes from 2 things:

mislabeling of "centrist" and "liberal" as a means of moving EVERYTHING to the right, and the automatic balancing act some of us play; the harder we feel the push to the right, the further to the left we run to try to balance the ship.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Who would have guessed that Gravel was to the left of Kucinich.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I wonder what positions landed him there?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
13. That's weird...
I wouldn't have put Gravel on the economic left; I thought he was for a flat tax (though left-wing on foreign policy).

When I did the test, I think I got -0.7 on economic issues and -0.65 on social/libertarian issues.
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Mr. McD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Interesting that the two more liberal Democratic candidates
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 10:24 AM by Mr. McD
are the least popular among Democrats.


Economic Left/Right: -6.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.03
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I noticed that too
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
16. Since the Pres is the only nationally elected leader
doesn't it kinda make sense that the majority of the candidates would fall more toward the authoritarian side?

:shrug:
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'm calling bullshit
Ron Paul is not libertarian? John Edwards is a rightie? Bill Richardson?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Here's what the site said
Please keep in mind that The Political Compass is a universal tool, reflecting the full spectrum of political thought, and applicable to all democracies. US politics are generally fought within a more confined space. While in mainstream America, Clinton, for example, may be seen as left leaning, in the overall political landscape, she is a moderate conservative. Someone like Kucinich, while seen by his severest opponents as an extreme left winger, would qualify as a typical social democrat in a European context.
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asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
43. The American political spectrum is to the right of much of the world's.
And our national psychology has tended towards authoritarianism in recent decades. I think that if you took that top right quadrant, enlarged it and superimposed the divisions over it alone, you'd have the political compass as Americans would see it.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. I think you are right.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. Just for comparison's sake, here's how DUers scored a couple of years ago ...


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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Why aren't there more candidates down there?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Good question. We seem to expect different qualities in elected representatives.
Edited on Tue Jul-17-07 11:44 AM by TahitiNut
That apparently leads us to deny ourselves a representation of our values and, instead, regard elected politicians as a separate 'class.' In other words, we're CREATING the very conditions we claim to abhor.

This isn't unusual human behavior, sadly. For example, hetero people who have less-than-complimentary stereotypes of the opposite sex often choose to marry/date only those who represent that stereotype. Women who claim "all men are sexist pigs" tend to (subconsciously?) regard males who AREN'T sexist pigs as somehow less than a "real man." Men who claim "all women are high maintenance" tend to (subconsciously?) regard females who AREN'T high maintenance as not "real women." (You can fill in the claimed attribute as you will - there're plenty of them.)

So, it's not inconceivable to me that we choose candidates for office in much the same way we choose mates - "opposites attract"? - instead of manifesting our own "best foot forward." The whole "have a beer with" litmus test seems to bear this out - more of a dating relationship than a poltical one.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You may be on to something there.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
22. FWIW, most politicians are in the top right quadrant these days
Analysis of EU governments in 2006:


Movement of UK political parties since 1972:


I think their centre is based on where the average of democratic countries was in the 1970s. Since then, most of those countries have moved rightwards.

In 2004, most Democratic candidates were also in the top right hand quadrant, except Kucinich and Sharpton. I think Moseley Braun was pretty much dead centre.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-19-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #22
64. That would explain a lot, then
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
23. Simply wanting to govern
Edited on Tue Jul-17-07 07:15 AM by Xap
other people is an authoritarian trait by definition. Thus nearly all the professional politicians in authoritarian territory.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. There may be something to that
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. looks like Kucinich is a tad closer to the middle point than Edwards
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-17-07 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. But DK is the the left of that center, which is something that matters for me. I do
like Edwards, though I wish his wife was running. She's wonderful!
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Objectively,`
most ppl are moderates. If they looked at this, they would look into who's closest to the middle. Funny if right moderates saw this and looked for the most balance, they'd be looking at Edwards LOL

And of course, left: Kucinich.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I don't think most people are moderate, most people call themselves moderate...
and in reality have no fucking clue where they fall. If most of the United States took this test, they would fall all over the map, from Fascism to Communism to Anarcho-Socialism to Libertarian. Now whether there would end up being an overall pattern is a good question, to be honest, if there is, it would be center left or so, at least according to most polls.

The problem is that "Moderates" or even worse, the "Center" is completely undefined. Is a Pro-Life Communist a Moderate? Or even better, how about a Socialist who believes in, or is neutral on, the 2nd Amendment? There's also the question of HOW important an issue is, whether its a deal breaker or not, for example a Pro-Life person, who is otherwise leftist on Economic issues may vote Republican simply because they are pro-life. Are they truly a moderate, or just a single issue voter?
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. That's true. If you draw a small circle around the crosshairs of the
graph and consider all the moderates who fall within it, there will still be tremendous differences in those people.

Also, I know people who are generally rather rw who got pulled back closer to center because of of some notions, like funding art museums. But on most other issues I disagree heavily with them.

That is the one failing with this graph, I think, is that I would want to see the breakdown. Where do we place on this section of the test, where do we place on that section, and then finally I would want to see the overall placement that we get now.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
36. according to the test, hitler and stalin would have killed me
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 08:43 AM by datasuspect

Economic Left/Right: -9.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.74
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
39. Clinton and Richardson tie for most RW of the Democratic field.
no surprise there
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
41. This Appears To Be Absolutely Worthless And Inaccurate To The Max.
No way these results bear legitimacy.

If they want the results to have any credibility whatsoever, then they should make public their grading of each by posting what they marked as the perceptual answers for each candidate, as if they had taken the test. Then we could either acknowledge or refute their assumptions of each.

Since they must have the answers to each question for each candidate in order to come up with the score, they should be able to have them public for scrutiny of their methods.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. Email them and ask them about that.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. Perhaps they could put Nader up there
It looks like they got it pretty straight to me.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. Would Be Interesting To See How They Arrived At The Results Though Right?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. yes
I've taken their quiz, but they don't offer an analysis of how they score the test :kick:
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Sorry If I Hadn't Been Clear. I Didn't Mean How They Analyze The Answers Afterwards,
I meant for the candidates above, how they answered each question for them.

You and I have answered the questions ourselves whereas the candidates did not. Instead, the site answered for them. I'd be curious to see what answers they chose for each, so that we can scrutinize them and see if we agree with what they chose. If so, then we could show legitimacy to the layout above. But without having those details handy, there is no way to confirm or refute their conclusions. That's why I'm curious to see the details, since in my opinion the plotting of them just doesn't appear to be accurate.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. I bet they used previous statement and votes
certainly not as clear cut as you and me answering the questions ourselves.

Peace and low stress my friend
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Peace To You As Well.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
48. 2 Social Democrats vs 8 moderate - RW conservatives.
Seems like an accurate analysis.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
50. So, I'm more antiauthoritarian left than Gravel? - n/t
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