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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:54 AM
Original message
Overpopulation
I keep reading on all these threads about the "mommy/baby flight attendant" how the child-free are *ssholes (b*tchy/moan~y/whine~y/vile/sarcastic/arrogant/self~entitled etc):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Here is a link for ONE of the child~free=*sshole comment(s).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Has it ever occurred to any of you who feel or felt the need to see yourself replicated that there are ENOUGH people on the planet already? Most DU'ers are ecologically savvy and aware yet they still feel entitled to bring even more people onto the planet. I choose NOT to do so. Yes, I do think I am more responsible than those who choose to breed. I put the general well being of the planet ahead of seeing my spawn out in the world. If I ever feel the need or desire to be a parent, I will adopt. Did it ever occur to any of you who are biological parents that you could adopt a child? There are more than enough starving children in the world who need loving parents to help raise them. I know they will not be the "cuddly little babies" who's skin/hair/eye color will match your own, but those who adopt unwanted kids are doing the whole world a lot of good. A hell of a lot more good than ANYONE who adds to the problem of overpopulation.

No amount of re-cycling and car~pooling and conservation is going to do much good if we do not address the problem of overpopulation.

So, stop accusing the child~free of being *ssholes and look into a mirror. The world will be a better (and less congested) place if you do.

http://www.overpopulation.org /

P.S.
To any of you who think I might be "jealous/envious" of you because you are a parent, think again. Any animal on the planet can breed. It does not take a "miracle" from god to bring forth one more mouth to feed.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. OK. How would that have changed things?
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 07:26 AM by EstimatedProphet
Let's say now that the child was adopted. how would that affect the argument?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I haven't been looking at the threads on this at all. I am just trying to figure out how adopting would have made a difference.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I think you have missed the point of my post...
My post is about overpopulation and how some people who choose to breed consider child~free people *ssholes.

The "mommy/baby flight~attendant" story would, of course be no different if the child were adopted, biological or born in~vitro.

I am just saying: STOP having children. There are enough people on the planet.

http://www.population-awareness.net/
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I agree with you on the overpopulation issue
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 07:26 AM by EstimatedProphet
And it should be up to everyone as to whether they decide to have children or not. Not having children doesn't make someone an asshole, any more than having children does. I was just confused about your point, since it seems like you are piggybacking on an issue to try and put forth your own issue.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. My issue is overpopulation.
Yes, ultimately it is every single person's choice if they wish to add more children into the world. As it is, the choice is obviously to continue breeding until the planet expires. Most people think that THEIR own addition of one or two more children makes no difference...but of course it does.

I think it hypocritical to be a conservationist yet still add to the problem of overpopulation. I realize I am in the minority on the issue.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I do agree with you
By far the biggest issue facing us as a species and facing the world ecology is our own overpopulation.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
85. You read... books? Those are made of trees. You scuba dive? Do you use boats? In the water?
How much planetary damage are you causing every time you go out there?

Those treks you take-- do you walk or bike to them, every time? Or do you ride airplanes around the world, selfishly burning fossil fuels and fucking up OUR environment so that you can engage in some selfish fucking yuppie fantasy about communing with nature?

Hey, you live in the Los Angeles area; surely you know that that area is NOT designed to sustain, what, 10 million people? You drink water, right? Where does it come from? Really, you ought to move to Nebraska or somewhere that is more sustainable. By draining the dregs of the Colorado river (or stealing water from Northern California) you're fucking up the planet.

Movies? You watch movies? Presumably you watch them on a television or in a theater powered by 100% renewable energy. Otherwise, you're amusing yourself with masturbatory self-indulgence, at the planet's expense.

Junk your car, move into a yurt, and start composting 100% of your bodily wastes, and then maybe you can start lecturing everyone else about "hypocritical" conservationism.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
81. Yeah. The point of your post is to obnoxiously lecture people on their personal choices.
Get over yourself, for fuck's sake.

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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. Although my kids are grown and gone
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 07:05 AM by DaveTheWave
Knowing then what I know now I would never purposely subject a growing child to live in this country. The education standards are going down due to funding a war, wages are down so in the future they and their spouses would have to work two jobs each in hopes of maybe buying a home and some worthless health insurance that will deny every claim. Global warming, wars, lying assholes in Washington D.C. taking even more of what little you earn, etc.

Who would want to bring a kid up in a world like that?

Edit - On the pro side, those of you who have kids you better make them get to work. I'm going to retire soon and I want my social security and medicare to pay for my viagra. Get to work!
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. Procreation is a basic instinct of any living creature.
And having a child or two isn't some grave sin against the environment.

Come up with something better.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Keep telling yourself that as the planet goes into global warming...
I am sure that your "child or two" will enjoy it.

Next.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. We don't have billions of people on the planet for "self preservation"...
We have that number due to ignorance and the selfishness of those who choose to breed.
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Define "we"... please
is it "we" like you and me in industrial countries with internet and more elderly people than kids?
Or is it we like "all we humans" on this planet coming in every color and shape and believe and most of them not caring about what we're discussing here?

Do you generally like it "your way?"
Then answer me this question: Who will live "your way" and think "your way" in 30 years when you might be gone?

I like it "my way", and actually I think we have are thinking much the same about protecting the environment and not wasting the few ressources we have left on this planet.
I'm not planning to "breed" and spread my genes all over the face of the planet. But I plan to have children to whom I can teach the ways of living of this planet without destroying it any further. And this I can only teach to MY one or two children, not to the billions of people on the other side of the planet.

Just giving up and waiting to die is not an answer to a problem.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. We=people on the planet earth.
Not the royal plural. :eyes:
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. The same could be said about YOU: "eliminate yourself"....
...since you seem to think that solving the problem of "overpopulation" requires "eliminating" anyone. I have never suggested that anyone be eliminated. I leave the violence to people like yourself.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Uhm but your post about "offing yourself" is acceptable?
I don't think so.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I was just running with your logic
If you want to come start a flame fest, then why try to act offended when you get what you asked for?

You wanted a bitchfest. You got one. Now quit your whining, you are worse then my kids.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. My logic says nothing about anyone "offing" anyone...
I am not espousing violence. You are. I pity your children.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. Man, I just hate that "then do the planet a favor and kill yourself" crap too
people who are for zero population growth don't advocate murder or suicide, they just want a lower birth rate! Smaller families are more affordable and more time can be devoted to the rearing of individual children, making them better prepared to enter a very dangerous, dying planet and culture as adults. There are millions of orphaned children on the planet as well-if a couple is infertile, maybe that's a good reason to adopt instead of taking drugs that produce sextuplets.And let's stop stigmatizing the child free already! Some of us know what's coming down the road and don't want to subject another human being to a hellish future. We're not "selfish", we're self-LESS for setting aside our desire to have children when the planet's ecosystems can't sustain the number of humans we've put here already.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Thank you, Lorien for being the only other person here to pick up on the violence...
I am not advocating anything other than a reasonable discussion about overpopulation. It seems that such a topic is anathema to reason and logic on DU.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #42
56. Lorien
This poster is being disingenuous.

This is a quote from another post of his. Pretty hateful, IMHO.


"Just the sight of a baby and I am bothered. If I had been seated anywhere near that dirty brat I would have sided with the flight attendant and I would probably be seeking an attorney to sue the mother for all the hassle she caused. Just as some people do not allow smoking in their homes, I do not allow babies/children/toddlers or ANYONE who cannot hold their liquor past my front door. Children should be neither seen nor heard."
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #17
41. As I replied to another violent post...
I leave the violence to people like you. You seem to find your nourishment in it.

God spare anyone under your care.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. lmao
I have one child, all I plan to have. One child will not even replace my husband and I when we die, therefore we are actually diminishing the human population over time rather than increasing it.

And we're considerably more eco-friendly than the vast majority of humans.

Get a life.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Fortunately everyone has followed your example....
Mydumb! There is no overpopulation problem. And no global warming either. It's all part of that science~"fiction" I have been reading about. :crazy:

Get a life indeed!
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. if you want no children
for what ever reason (supporting 0% population growth, hate children, etc) thats fine.


just keep this in mind if you have a negative in population, down the line you will run into problems with filling jobs, sustaining SS, keeping the economy going.

which an article that overpopulation.org points out is happening in estonia
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070529/66245494.html


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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. No problem
.. there will always be enough immigrants to join your work force ranks.
Just not with YOUR values and views and cultural background, but with their own, probably not caring about the environment at all.

Therefor I think having no kids at all will come back at you. The kids of OTHER people will take over the world, instead of yours. An while you could have taught yours some fine manners like not polluting the environment, the others won't have been taught this at all because their parents have totally different problems, like earning enough to survive!

If you're smart and want to help the planet, have children and teach them as much as you can, don't let other people have children who teach them nothing!

Having said that, I have to add that I do not have children (yet) but I plan to someday have one or two as I see this as the natural way of life.

Humans, thinking of themselves as NOT being part of this planet, but as something higher/different/smarter is exactly the problem. We have to learn how to LIVE with the planet, not how to stop living on it.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. Really? So "immigrants" cannot share our values?
and it is "they" who do not care about the environment? I am glad you were able to clear that up for me. Thanks.



:sarcasm:
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. If you don't procreate your noble views/values will die with you

You're choice of not having ANY children won't help the planet much.

I'm not a fan of overpopulation either, but if me and my girlfriend have 2 children, the population will still be stable overall when we die, given that they SURVIVE and will have two children of their own.

It's rather some other countries, that are developing the means to reduce child mortality drastically but in which parents still have MANY MANY children, that push up the planets population. It's NOT the industrial countries.

Plus (ducking and covering from flames about racism) I would be quite happy when the population of my country still constists mostly of endemic people in 30 years, instead of other nations people coming in to fill the void. Because having no people, has the effect that you still want all the good but don't have the workforce to produce them which leads to massive immigration of people who themselves have absolutely no concerns about massive procreation.

Which makes people like you, the dieing out kind of people.
Darwinism in action.
^_^

Human Life is like a virus, you can't stamp it out that easily, but you can control it. But who will control it in the next generation if you just die out and have noone with your cultural background to pass on your values and views?
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. OH!!! Now I get it! Overpopulation is due to OTHER people from OTHER countries...
NOT to you and your girlfriend. :sarcasm:


And I am glad that you are not a "fan of overpopulation". I hope you are not fan of pollution too! :eyes:


I hope you and your "endemic" people will be very happy together.
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Crayson Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Do the math

A male, and a female...
.. having two children (ideally a male and a female)
.. having two children each with their partners
.. their 2 grandparents die
.. and so on

Ideal gene pool mixture with sustained population numbers.
Unfortunately that equation only works for industrialized countries.

As soon as you don't trust your health institutions and mortality rises people start to "breed" and have tons of children.

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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Actually he is right
and you are wrong.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Proof?
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. 2006 world birth rates
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 09:14 AM by Marrah_G
Rank by
Rank; Entity; Birth rate(births/1000 persons/year)
World 20.05
1 Niger 50.73
2 Mali 49.82
3 Uganda 47.35
4 Afghanistan 46.60
5 Sierra Leone 45.76 2006 est.
6 Chad 45.73 2006 est.
7 Burkina Faso 45.62 2006 est.
8 Somalia 45.13 2006 est.
9 Angola 45.11 2006 est.
10 Liberia 44.77 2006 est.
11 Dem of Congo 43.69 2006 est.
12 Malawi 43.13 2006 est.
13 Yemen 42.89 2006 est.
14 Repub of Congo 42.57 2006 est.
15 Burundi 42.22 2006 est.
16 Guinea 41.76 2006 est.
17 Madagascar 41.41 2006 est.
18 Zambia 41.00 2006 est.
19 Mauritania 40.99 2006 est.
20 Mayotte(France) 40.95 2006 est.
21 Nigeria 40.43 2006 est.
22 Rwanda 40.37 2006 est.
23 Sao Tome 40.25 2006 est.
24 Kenya 39.72 2006 est.
25 Djibouti 39.53 2006 est.
26 Gaza Strip 39.45 2006 est.
27 The Gambia 39.37 2006 est.
28 Benin 38.85 2006 est.
29 Ethiopia 37.98 2006 est.
30 Tanzania 37.71 2006 est.
31 Guinea-Bissau 37.22 2006 est.
32 Togo 37.01 2006 est.
33 Comoros 36.93 2006 est.
34 Haiti 36.44 2006 est.
35 Oman 36.24 2006 est.
36 Gabon 36.16 2006 est.
37 Equa Guinea 35.59 2006 est.
38 Laos 35.49 2006 est.
39 Mozambique 35.18 2006 est.
40 Cte d'Ivoire 35.11 2006 est.
41 Maldives 34.81 2006 est.
42 Sudan 34.53 2006 est.
43 Eritrea 34.33 2006 est.
44 Ctrl Afr. Rep. 33.91 2006 est.
45 Cameroon 33.89 2006 est.
46 Bhutan 33.65 2006 est.
47 Marshall Isles 33.05 2006 est.
48 Senegal 32.78 2006 est.
49 Tajikistan 32.65 2006 est.
50 Iraq 31.98 2006 est.
51 West Bank 31.67 2006 est.
52 Nepal 30.98 2006 est.
53 Kiribati 30.65 2006 est.
54 Ghana 30.52 2006 est.
55 Solomon Isles 30.01 2006 est.
56 Guatemala 29.88 2006 est.
57 Bangladesh 29.80 2006 est.
58 Pakistan 29.74 2006 est.
59 New Guinea 29.36 2006 est.
60 Saudi Arabia 29.34 2006 est.
61 Paraguay 29.10 2006 est.
62 Belize 28.84 2006 est.
63 Honduras 28.24 2006 est.
64 Zimbabwe 28.01 2006 est.
65 Syria 27.76 2006 est.
66 Turkmenistan 27.61 2006 est.
67 Swaziland 27.41 2006 est.
68 East Timor 26.99 2006 est.
69 Cambodia 26.90 2006 est.
70 El Salvador 26.61 2006 est.
71 Libya 26.49 2006 est.
72 Uzbekistan 26.36 2006 est.
73 Tonga 25.37 2006 est.
74 Philippines 24.89 2006 est.
75 Cape Verde 24.87 2006 est.
76 Nauru 24.76 2006 est.
77 Lesotho 24.75 2006 est.
78 Micronesia 24.68 2006 est.
79 Nicaragua 24.51 2006 est.
80 Namibia 24.32 2006 est.
81 Bolivia 23.30 2006 est.
82 Dominican Rep 23.22 2006 est.
83 Botswana 23.08 2006 est.
84 Egypt 22.94 2006 est.
85 Malaysia 22.86 2006 est.
86 Kyrgyzstan 22.80 2006 est.
87 Vanuatu 22.72 2006 est.
88 Fiji 22.55 2006 est.
89 Amer. Samoa 22.46 2006 est.
90 Ecuador 22.29 2006 est.
91 Tuvalu 22.18 2006 est.
92 Grenada 22.08 2006 est.
93 India 22.01 2006 est.
94 Morocco 21.98 2006 est.
95 Kuwait 21.94 2006 est.
96 Turks/Caicos 21.84 2006 est.
97 Panama 21.74 2006 est.
98 Mongolia 21.59 2006 est.
99 Jordan 21.25 2006 est.
100 Jamaica 20.82 2006 est.
101 Azerbaijan 20.74 2006 est.
102 Mexico 20.69 2006 est.
103 Colombia 20.48 2006 est.
104 Peru 20.48 2006 est.
105 French Guiana 20.46 2006 est.
106 Indonesia 20.34 2006 est.
107 Saint Lucia 19.68 2006 est.
108 N.Mariana Is. 19.43 2006 est.
109 UAE 18.96 2006 est.
110 Runion 18.90 2006 est.
111 Brunei 18.79 2006 est.
112 Guam (US) 18.79 2006 est.
113 Venezuela 18.71 2006 est.
114 Lebanon 18.52 2006 est.
115 Costa Rica 18.32 2006 est.
116 Guyana 18.28 2006 est.
117 South Africa 18.20 2006 est.
118 New Caledonia 18.11 2006 est.
119 Palau 18.03 2006 est.
120 Suriname 18.02 2006 est.
121 St.Kitts/Nevis 18.02 2006 est.
122 Israel 17.97 2006 est.
123 Myanmar 17.91 2006 est.
124 Bahrain 17.80 2006 est.
125 Montserrat 17.59 2006 est.
126 The Bahamas 17.57 2006 est.
127 Algeria 17.14 2006 est.
128 Iran 17.00 2006 est.
129 Antigua/Barbuda 16.93 2006 est.
130 Vietnam 16.86 2006 est.
131 Argentina 16.73 2006 est.
132 Fr. Polynesia 16.68 2006 est.
133 Turkey 16.62 2006 est.
134 Brazil 16.56 2006 est.
135 Samoa 16.43 2006 est.
136 St Vincent 16.18 2006 est.
137 Seychelles 16.03 2006 est.
138 Kazakhstan 16.00 2006 est.
139 Greenland 15.93 2006 est.
140 Moldova 15.70 2006 est.
141 Qatar 15.56 2006 est.
142 North Korea 15.54 2006 est.
143 Tunisia 15.52 2006 est.
144 Sri Lanka 15.51 2006 est.
145 Mauritius 15.43 2006 est.
146 Dominica 15.27 2006 est.
147 Chile 15.23 2006 est.
148 Albania 15.11 2006 est.
149 Guadeloupe 15.05 2006 est.
150 Br. Virgin I 14.89 2006 est.
151 Netherlands Ant.14.78 2006 est.
152 Ireland 14.45 2006 est.
153 Anguilla (UK) 14.17 2006 est.
154 United States 14.14 2006 est.
155 Faroe Islands 14.05
156 U.S. Virgin I. 13.96
157 Uruguay 13.91
158 Thailand 13.87
159 New Zealand 13.76
160 Martinique 13.74
161 Iceland 13.64
162 Saint Pierre 13.52 2006 est.
163 China 13.25 2006 est.
164 Trinidad/Tobago 12.90 2006 est.
165 Puerto Rico 12.77 2006 est.
166 Cayman Islands 12.74 2006 est.
167 Barbados 12.71 2006 est.
168 Montenegro 12.60 2004
169 Cyprus 12.56 2006 est.
170 Taiwan 12.56 2006 est.
171 Australia 12.14 2006 est.
172 Saint Helena 12.13 2006 est.
173 Armenia 12.07 2006 est.
174 Macedonia 12.02 2006 est.
175 France 11.99 2004 est.
176 Luxembourg 11.94 2006 est.
177 Cuba 11.89 2006 est.
178 Norway 11.46 2006 est.
179 Bermuda (UK) 11.40 2006 est.
180 Belarus 11.16 2006 est.
181 Denmark 11.13 2006 est.
183 Isle of Man 11.05 2006 est.
184 Aruba 11.03 2006 est.
185 Netherlands 10.90 2006 est.
186 Canada 10.78 2006 est.
187 Gibraltar (UK) 10.74 2006 est.
188 Portugal 10.72 2006 est.
188 United Kingdom 10.78 2006 est.
189 Romania 10.70 2006 est.
190 Slovakia 10.65 2006 est.
191 Finland 10.45 2006 est.
192 Georgia 10.41 2006 est.
213 Czech Republic 10.40 2006 est.
193 Belgium 10.38 2006 est.
194 Sweden 10.27 2006 est.
195 Malta 10.22 2006 est.
196 Liechtenstein 10.21 2006 est.
197 Spain 10.06 2006 est.
198 Estonia 10.04 2006 est.
199 San Marino 10.02 2006 est.
200 South Korea 10.00 2006 est.
201 Russia 9.95 2006 est.
202 Poland 9.85 2006 est.
203 Hungary 9.72 2006 est.
204 Switzerland 9.71 2006 est.
205 Greece 9.68 2006 est.
206 Croatia 9.61 2006 est.
207 Bulgaria 9.60 2006 <2>
208 Japan 9.37 2006 est.
209 Singapore 9.34 2006 est.
210 Jersey (UK) 9.30 2006 est.
211 Latvia 9.24 2006 est.
212 Monaco 9.19 2006 est.
214 Slovenia 8.98 2006 est.
215 Ukraine 8.82 2006 est.
216 Guernsey (UK) 8.81 2006 est.
217 Bosnia 8.75 2006 est.
219 Austria 8.74 2006 est.
220 Italy 8.72 2006 est.
221 Andorra 8.71 2006 est.
222 Macau 8.48 2006 est.
223 Germany 8.25 2006 est.
224 Hong Kong 7.29 2006 est.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. What is the meaning of your "search and paste"?
Were you not able to find some Cliff notes to help you decipher them? :shrug:
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #33
38. They are called statistics.
You asked for proof. I provided it.

You obviously are not interested in facts and would rather rely on your own false views of our society.

Our average per family is around 1.5 kids, lower then the majority of the world.




I'm done with you.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #38
46. Yes, but what do your statistics prove?
That the problem of overpopulation is non-existent because it is happening in "other" countries? What do you mean by "Our average per family is around 1.5 kids..." Who is "our". You seem to want to divide the human race into little groups so that you feel you have done all you can to solve a problem. "Our" planet belongs to "everyone" on it. Not just the nations who have been able to keep their population growth numbers down.


I don't expect an answer to this since you are much too emotional to discuss anything rationally.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #32
48. You forgot the second part of that list there big guy...

Infant mortality rate
(deaths/1,000 live births)

Date of Information
1
Angola 184.44 2007 est.
2
Sierra Leone 158.27 2007 est.
3
Afghanistan 157.43 2007 est.
4
Liberia 149.73 2007 est.
5
Niger 116.83 2007 est.
6
Somalia 113.08 2007 est.
7
Mozambique 109.93 2007 est.
8
Mali 105.65 2007 est.
9
Guinea-Bissau 103.50 2007 est.
10
Chad 102.07 2007 est.
11
Djibouti 100.77 2007 est.
12
Zambia 100.71 2007 est.
13
Bhutan 96.37 2007 est.
14
Nigeria 95.52 2007 est.
15
Malawi 92.10 2007 est.
16
Ethiopia 91.92 2007 est.
17
Sudan 91.78 2007 est.
18
Burkina Faso 89.79 2007 est.
19
Guinea 88.58 2007 est.
20
Cote d'Ivoire 87.41 2007 est.
21
Equatorial Guinea 87.15 2007 est.
22
Rwanda 85.27 2007 est.
23
Central African Republic 83.97 2007 est.
24
Congo, Republic of the 83.26 2007 est.
25
Laos 81.44 2007 est.
26
Lesotho 79.85 2007 est.
27
Benin 77.85 2007 est.
28
Tanzania 71.69 2007 est.
29
Comoros 70.66 2007 est.
30
Swaziland 70.66 2007 est.
31
Gambia, The 70.14 2007 est.
32
Uzbekistan 68.89 2007 est.
33
Pakistan 68.84 2007 est.
34
Mauritania 68.07 2007 est.
35
Uganda 67.22 2007 est.
36
Cameroon 65.84 2007 est.
37
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 65.52 2007 est.
38
Haiti 63.83 2007 est.
39
Nepal 63.66 2007 est.
40
Burundi 61.93 2007 est.
41
Senegal 60.15 2007 est.
42
Mayotte 59.51 2007 est.
43
South Africa 59.44 2007 est.
44
Bangladesh 59.12 2007 est.
45
Togo 59.12 2007 est.
46
Cambodia 58.45 2007 est.
47
Azerbaijan 58.31 2007 est.
48
Yemen 57.88 2007 est.
49
Kenya 57.44 2007 est.
50
Madagascar 57.02 2007 est.
51
Gabon 53.65 2007 est.
52
Ghana 53.56 2007 est.
53
Turkmenistan 53.49 2007 est.
54
Maldives 53.25 2007 est.
55
Vanuatu 52.45 2007 est.
56
Zimbabwe 51.12 2007 est.
57
Burma 50.68 2007 est.
58
Bolivia 50.43 2007 est.
59
Papua New Guinea 48.46 2007 est.
60
Namibia 47.23 2007 est.
61
Iraq 47.04 2007 est.
62
Kiribati 46.02 2007 est.
63
Cape Verde 45.27 2007 est.
64
Eritrea 45.24 2007 est.
65
East Timor 44.46 2007 est.
66
Botswana 43.97 2007 est.
67
Tajikistan 43.64 2007 est.
68
World 43.52 2007 est.
69
Mongolia 42.65 2007 est.
70
Sao Tome and Principe 40.54 2007 est.
71
Morocco 38.85 2007 est.
72
Turkey 38.33 2007 est.
73
Iran 38.12 2007 est.
74
India 34.61 2007 est.
75
Kyrgyzstan 33.38 2007 est.
76
Indonesia 32.14 2007 est.
77
Guyana 31.35 2007 est.
78
Peru 29.96 2007 est.
79
Guatemala 29.77 2007 est.
80
Egypt 29.50 2007 est.
81
Algeria 28.78 2007 est.
82
Micronesia, Federated States of 28.15 2007 est.
83
Dominican Republic 27.94 2007 est.
84
Syria 27.70 2007 est.
85
Brazil 27.62 2007 est.
86
Kazakhstan 27.41 2007 est.
87
Marshall Islands 27.30 2007 est.
88
Nicaragua 27.14 2007 est.
89
Paraguay 26.45 2007 est.
90
Samoa 25.89 2007 est.
91
Honduras 25.21 2007 est.
92
Romania 24.60 2007 est.
93
Belize 24.38 2007 est.
94
Vietnam 24.37 2007 est.
95
Trinidad and Tobago 24.33 2007 est.
96
Bahamas, The 24.17 2007 est.
97
Lebanon 23.39 2007 est.
98
Tunisia 22.94 2007 est.
99
El Salvador 22.88 2007 est.
100
Libya 22.82 2007 est.
101
Korea, North 22.56 2007 est.
102
Venezuela 22.52 2007 est.
103
China 22.12 2007 est.
104
Philippines 22.12 2007 est.
105
Ecuador 22.10 2007 est.
106
Gaza Strip 21.88 2007 est.
107
Armenia 21.69 2007 est.
108
Colombia 20.13 2007 est.
109
Suriname 20.11 2007 est.
110
Albania 20.02 2007 est.
111
Solomon Islands 19.97 2007 est.
112
Mexico 19.63 2007 est.
113
Anguilla 19.61 2007 est.
114
Sri Lanka 19.45 2007 est.
115
Bulgaria 19.16 2007 est.
116
Tuvalu 18.90 2007 est.
117
Thailand 18.85 2007 est.
118
West Bank 18.67 2007 est.
119
Oman 18.28 2007 est.
120
Antigua and Barbuda 18.26 2007 est.
121
Saint Helena 17.67 2007 est.
122
Qatar 17.46 2007 est.
123
Georgia 17.36 2007 est.
124
Malaysia 16.62 2007 est.
125
Bahrain 16.18 2007 est.
126
Jordan 16.16 2007 est.
127
British Virgin Islands 16.13 2007 est.
128
Panama 15.96 2007 est.
129
Jamaica 15.73 2007 est.
130
Greenland 14.98 2007 est.
131
Aruba 14.75 2007 est.
132
Seychelles 14.75 2007 est.
133
Turks and Caicos Islands 14.70 2007 est.
134
Dominica 14.61 2007 est.
135
Argentina 14.29 2007 est.
136
Mauritius 14.14 2007 est.
137
Palau 14.07 2007 est.
138
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 14.01 2007 est.
139
Grenada 13.92 2007 est.
140
Moldova 13.88 2007 est.
141
Saint Kitts and Nevis 13.74 2007 est.
142
United Arab Emirates 13.52 2007 est.
143
Brunei 13.12 2007 est.
144
Saint Lucia 12.81 2007 est.
145
Saudi Arabia 12.41 2007 est.
146
Uruguay 12.02 2007 est.
147
Fiji 11.99 2007 est.
148
Tonga 11.99 2007 est.
149
Barbados 11.55 2007 est.
150
Russia 11.06 2007 est.
151
Netherlands Antilles 9.63 2007 est.
152
Nauru 9.60 2007 est.
153
Bosnia and Herzegovina 9.58 2007 est.
154
Macedonia 9.53 2007 est.
155
Ukraine 9.50 2007 est.
156
Kuwait 9.47 2007 est.
157
Costa Rica 9.45 2007 est.
158
Latvia 9.16 2007 est.
159
American Samoa 8.88 2007 est.
160
Chile 8.36 2007 est.
161
Hungary 8.21 2007 est.
162
Bermuda 8.08 2007 est.
163
French Polynesia 7.84 2007 est.
164
Puerto Rico 7.81 2007 est.
165
Cayman Islands 7.80 2007 est.
166
Virgin Islands 7.69 2007 est.
167
Estonia 7.59 2007 est.
168
New Caledonia 7.42 2007 est.
169
Saint Pierre and Miquelon 7.21 2007 est.
170
Slovakia 7.12 2007 est.
171
Poland 7.07 2007 est.
172
Montserrat 7.03 2007 est.
173
Cyprus 6.89 2007 est.
174
Northern Mariana Islands 6.85 2007 est.
175
Israel 6.75 2007 est.
176
Guam 6.68 2007 est.
177
Lithuania 6.68 2007 est.
178
Belarus 6.63 2007 est.
179
Croatia 6.60 2007 est.
180
United States 6.37 2007 est.
181
Korea, South 6.05 2007 est.
182
Cuba 6.04 2007 est.
183
Faroe Islands 6.01 2007 est.
184
Isle of Man 5.72 2007 est.
185
Italy 5.72 2007 est.
186
New Zealand 5.67 2007 est.
187
Taiwan 5.54 2007 est.
188
San Marino 5.53 2007 est.
189
Greece 5.34 2007 est.
190
Monaco 5.27 2007 est.
191
Ireland 5.22 2007 est.
192
Jersey 5.08 2007 est.
193
United Kingdom 5.01 2007 est.
194
Gibraltar 4.98 2007 est.
195
Portugal 4.92 2007 est.
196
Netherlands 4.88 2007 est.
197
European Union 4.80 2007 est.
198
Luxembourg 4.68 2007 est.
199
Canada 4.63 2007 est.
200
Guernsey 4.59 2007 est.
201
Liechtenstein 4.58 2007 est.
202
Australia 4.57 2007 est.
203
Belgium 4.56 2007 est.
204
Austria 4.54 2007 est.
205
Denmark 4.45 2007 est.
206
Slovenia 4.35 2007 est.
207
Macau 4.33 2007 est.
208
Spain 4.31 2007 est.
209
Switzerland 4.28 2007 est.
210
Germany 4.08 2007 est.
211
Andorra 4.03 2007 est.
212
Czech Republic 3.86 2007 est.
213
Malta 3.82 2007 est.
214
Norway 3.64 2007 est.
215
Finland 3.52 2007 est.
216
France 3.41 2007 est.
217
Iceland 3.27 2007 est.
218
Hong Kong 2.94 2007 est.
219
Japan 2.80 2007 est.
220
Sweden 2.76 2007 est.
221
Singapore 2.30 2007 est.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #21
87. Yes Assclown is wrong but don't forget folks like these fundies:
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 02:12 PM by YOY
http://www.duggarfamily.com /

That's just goddamn irresponsible. The kids raise the kids at that point in addition to overpopulation.
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The Inquisitive Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
27. The vast majority of global population growth for the next 50 years
will overwhelmingly take place in the developing world. With the exception of the USA, the vast majority of western nations will see a decrease in population in the next 50 years.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Oh, so since the majority of population growth is occurring in the "developing world"...
Let's breed some more in the "developed" world. We need to catch up!!!


:sarcasm:
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The Inquisitive Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. heh what an emotionally driven response
I'll leave you quietly to your lackluster opinions, and poorly thought out beliefs.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Good riddance...
etc.
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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #27
49. Yeah. Those...developing world people (AKA the other 7/10's of the world)..breeding like....rabbits.
:eyes:

Unbelievable.

Amazing how many racists have crawled out from under their rocks to post here.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Unlike Global Warming which is a Global problem...
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 10:42 AM by assclown_bush
Some people seem to think that "overpopulation" is a local problem. It is US against THEM. Great attitude for some liberals to adopt.

Thank you for your post tjwash. :hi:
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The Inquisitive Donating Member (480 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
59. It's a simple matter of mathematics and rates of change in growth trends
you're applying a racist tint to this issue that was in no way implied by my post. I stated a clear and simple objective fact that all reputatable sources on this issue will support. Environmental concerns aside, the USA has the land, and means to support many more, simply look at the land area/population distribution map of the world. India for example currently has a large fixed population of 1.1 billion off the top of my head. Now total fertility is decreasing thanks to various private and public programs aimed at encouraging fewer children but it is not enough. While GDP increases, the rate of increase per capita remains low because population growth at a certain percentage multiplied by the current total population is a massive absolute increase. Naturally this puts further strain on the countries already rather scarce national resources. The USA, which will experience a more modest absolute and proportional population increase has the ability to provide for a larger population.

In all honesty I'm not even sure what I'm arguing with you about. I'm simply stating facts, I guess I'm just bewildered by how you interpret them and respond to the messenger.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
68. Numbers do not lie or discriminate.
It's simple. First world populations are stable or declining. Developing world populations are increasing, which not only negates first world population declines, but is also driving world population growth. Even if all the first world populations shot themselves in the head tomorrow, the human population drop would only register as a temporary downward blip in overall human population growth.

Population management in North America and Europe has succeeded wonderfully over the past couple of decades, but controlling populations in a few small areas while the rest of the world breeds without concern for sustainability is not a viable concept. The ONLY way we are going to stabilize and lower the worlds human population is to concentrate our efforts on reducing family size in the developing world.

There is nothing racist about any of this. It's basic math, and it's something the UN has already acknowledged.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
77. Yeah.
Believe it or not, the facts are the facts irregardless of whether you find them convenient, or not.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. Coming from someone who calls a baby a "bag of poo"
I don't think your hatred of babies is due to overpopulation.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
53. .
:applause: :yourock:
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Overpopulation
is never addressed. And if it is, it is usually from people who say, "My kids won't play a part in gobbling up the resources of this planet." Yea. right.
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Bobbieo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. For Population Control - Undo Bush's Global Gag Order!!!!
That would be a start.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Exactly. It is always the fault of the "other" nations...
thank you for your post.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. How many of the needy children have you adopted
you say you have no desire to see your own spawn...but then encourage the rest of us to adopt...


So have you adopted yet?
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Yes, I have 500 of them and I live in a shoe...
:evilgrin:


I have no desire to be a parent but if such a desire were ever to awaken, I will adopt.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
35. wanna cure overpopulation...there is a much faster way...let nature run its course
don't interfere with medicine and vaccines and feeding those who can't feed themselves....

The population will drop pretty quickly...

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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I think THAT may be the purpose of denying Americans universal health care...
and why we spend more money on an illegal war than we do assisting those who are in need.
So your suggestion has been duly noted and has already been implemented.

bUshCo is doing it's best to "cure overpopulation". :shrug:

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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
69. True, but it's inhumane to withhold medicine.
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 12:57 PM by Xithras
In truth, humans really aren't breeding any faster today than we have at any other point in our history. The only difference is that more of us are surviving to adulthood thanks to vaccines and modern medicine. Eliminate those and you'll have a population crash unlike anything seen in human history.

Of course, doing so would make the Nazi's look like Krishna's in comparison to any nation that actually implemented this. It's one thing to say that you want the population to decline. It's quite another to sentence millions of babies to death from polio and tuberculosis. One makes you a liberal. The other makes you a monster.
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #69
100. I completely agree
in fact the birth rate in some countries is probably far lower than at any other time in history...the only difference is that a majority if not most children are surviving to adulthood.

I took an anthropology class in college and one of our lectures was more of an ethics discussion regarding population and the prof brought up the fact that modern medicine is actually a big reason that the world population has grown...it was a fascinating lecture about how our compassion for the sick and our fear of disease has given us overpopulation.

I tend to think we can find better ways to control population without resorting to heartless and monstrous measures.




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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
39. I don't have children because of what my best friend's father told me
back in the '80's. He's been a climate researcher in Antarctica for over 40 years, and during the 1980's I overheard him talking to fellow researchers at a party at their home about the future of our planet if global warming hit a "tipping point" in the next decade or two. I was just a teenager then, but what he said terrified me. I later confronted him about it and asked if he really believed that we would be able to survive the next 50-100 years. He had this sad, heartbroken look on his face as he gave me a non-answer. Since then, so much of what he and his fellow researchers predicted has come true-way ahead of schedule. As much as I may want children, having them would be the most selfish act imaginable, imho. The hell awaiting them in their future is unfathomable to most of us now, but it's coming nevertheless. I can't imagine having a young child who I adored and knowing that they will face more war, possible starvation, epidemics of disease, water shortages,natural disasters, common violence and more before they turn 40. I just couldn't bear it.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
52. I agree, it is that serious...
Scientists believe we reached sustainable numbers in terms of environment and resources during the 1960s ~ and yet for forty years we've just added more and more people to the planet. In the 1980s I struggled with the decision to bring children into this mess, eventually decided to have two, and now can only apologize for the precarious state of the planet. It is heartbreaking.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
51. Assume much?
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 10:49 AM by insane_cratic_gal
How do you know that people haven't adopted or haven't fostered kids?

Sort of rude to assume that because they have one biological child (which I do) people have no interest in helping others or the planet.

Seems like there is a lot of hate/anger being forced out over this one topic.


Don't we have enough shit to attend to without creating more drama?

BTW I hope your fixed, or gay or abstaining from sex all together otherwise your not being a BREEDER, could change in the flash of one little wayward sperm.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. Sorry to bring the overpopulation "drama" to you...
...but it is a reality.

Yes, I am gay. So, no, unless a miracle of biblical proportions were to occur (which I doubt) I will not be one of the people adding more hungry mouths that need to be fed. How selfish of me. :shrug:
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
54. The issue isn't overpopulation, it's over consumption.
And your hateful comments about parents and babies render anything you say moot.

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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
55. Your view of adoption is antiquated and ignorant.
As for the rest of your post....mind your own business. You don't get to decide how anyone builds their family. It's NONE of your business.

(And for the record..yes...I built my family through adoption. 5 kids.)
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. "antiquated and ignorant"???
How so? Would you care to elaborate?

As for "minding your own business" the same can be said for you, YOU don't get to decide anything for anyone else either (I thought that concept was a given but some people fail to understand even the obvious).

Next time someone asks you to recycle or do anything constructive for the environment just tell them to "mind their own business". You are king in your world.

Burger World. :crazy:
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Beausoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. The notion that all adopted children are starving, "not cute and cuddly" and have different eye
color. Firstly, my children look very much like my husband. Brown skin and brown eyes. It appears you think only white people adopt and then..they only adopt black, starving, special needs toddlers. Ignorant. Antiquated

There are many infants, born into gut wrenching poverty..right here in the U.S. They are prefectly healthy, all racial backgrounds and all ages. Your view of adoption stems from the tabloid media and the Angelina Jolie and Madonna stories. Ignorant. Antiquated.

Short and simple, you obviously have ZERO understanding of the adoption process. Further, with your ridiculous and ignorant mindset, you'd be VERY hardpressed to find any REPUTABLE agency to faciliate an adoption. You think you can just waltz in, with your negative and hatefilled feelings about children, and just grab a child? Like shopping for a cat at the pound? Ignorant. Antiquated.

You equate adopting a child to recycling tin cans. Ignorant.

Shall I go on?

You start a huge flamebait thread, telling people how and when to build their families and then get your feelings hurt when someone tells you to mind your own business. Definitely ignorant.

What a poo-filled bag...to use your vernacular.
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JacquesMolay Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
57. The 'maintenance' fertility rate for the human population is 2.08
To maintain the global population at it's current rate, each woman could have 2 children (to replace herself and the father), and 2.08 on average - the .08 accounts for the percent of their spawn who will not reproduce. So having a kid or 2 is roughly sustainable.

However, the poster is right that overpopulation is a legitimate ecological issue. It makes people on the left uncomfortable to hear it applied to a situation like Mexican immigration. Mexico's fertility rate has been dropping, to 2.5 in 2005 (from 7 in 1960), and will probably drop to the maintenance rate soon. Over a period of a couple of decades, that should relieve some of the pressures that Mexican overpopulation is causing. And some of those problems are bad - there are 20 million people living in Mexico City, it is the most polluted city in the world outside of China, and they are depleting the groundwater so fast that the city is sinking a foot-and-a-half every year. Mexico is overpopulated, and the ramfications are causing people to take flight. Sorry if this seems like a tangent, but I wanted to support the first sentence of this paragraph.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
89. There are one billion people living south of the border
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 02:26 PM by truedelphi
At a rate of 2.5 replication - we are in trouble. Even if the rate stabilizes or continues to drop.

Areas in this country where housing prices are low enough to allow newly arrived immigrants to live often have a population density equivalent to Tokyo.

If the numbers were different I would not be so opposed to an open border policy.

But to me what the numbers indicate is that the USA is on its way to being a third world nation.

And the nations south of the border are doomed.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
58. yes, but "they" are breeding faster than "we" are
"we" have to get back to having huge families or "they" will end up destroying "our" way of life

don't you see?
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. No, I don't see.
I had no idea that the purpose of life was to see who could destroy the earth first, "they" or "we". Many people are uneducated and do not understand or have the resources for birth control. We do not have to behave as they do to get even.

I may have misread your post altogether and perhaps you meant to be sarcastic. If so, my apologies.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. moi?
sarcastic?

I thought the quotation marks on "we" and "they" would give it away.
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
63. This is the stupidest thread I have ever seen.
:crazy:
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #63
84. It's so funny I recommended it.
:)
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #63
91. Yet, oddly, you found the need to respond.


:silly:
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
64. 'Bout time someone had the chutzpah to talk about population hypocrisy
Seems to be one of the sacred cows around here. People will take off on the most passionate tangents about the enivronment, the planet, going green, conservation, et al and neglect to mention they have three or more kids. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

You speak to truth, assclown, which means you'll probably get flamed for your trouble.

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Seconded.
The same goes for eating 3x the amount of diet products that have 1/3rd the fat that a regular product would have...

Or replacing one CRT monitor with two LCD ones of comparable size because LCD monitors use half the energy of one CRT... net result is 0.

As for overpopulation, raw numbers speak for themselves. What is said from those numbers is a different story, but anything can be spun to fit any viewpoint and sometimes each of those viewpoints has validity too.

While it is natural to bring in children, sometimes we have to make sacrifices. There is nothing wrong with adoption or not having a sperm meet an egg at all (eggs are an equally responsible part of this omelet we call life...)
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #67
97. Thank you for your thoughtful post, Hypno Toad...
Your post is highly appreciated.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #64
79. And people like to talk about freedom, choice, and civil rights for their pet groups & issues while
neglecting to mention that they're self-righteous control freaks who get off on telling other people how to live their lives.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. Yes, as some people expound on conservation, Global Warming, Corporatism...
etc. Yet, strangely, they fail to realize that overpopulation is an issue that needs to be addressed. Funny how Al Gore can preach (correctly) about Global Warming and suggest how we all can make a difference but the discussion of overpopulation is done by "control freaks" who "get off on telling people how to live their lives".

Go figure.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #64
96. Aint it the truth, theHandpuppet....
Some of these cretins have called me all sorts of names and some even seem to imply that we should have more and more children not less...go figure.

Thank you for your post. I appreciate the support from at least some people who do not have blinders on.

:hi:
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
65. A cable tv pastor would disagree, saying "where will we get our next generation of scientists from?"
So I e-mailed him about offshoring and he has yet to reply.

:shrug:
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
70. We Are Here to Fuck and Make Babies
And help raise our babies make their own. That's the basic biological imperative and I won't criticize someone for being a victim, knowingly or otherwise, to biology.

Yep, the planet is overpopulated and it won't be able to support us all. Those who are most capable of adapting will most likely survive, along with their progeny.

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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
72. I don't think you're jealous...
I think you look down on those of us who chose to have children as being bad human beings.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. The thing is, you are operating under the delusion that you're "entitled" to have children.
Clearly, you have not submitted the proper requests to the Authorities on how you are to be allowed to live your life.


:eyes: :sarcasm: :eyes:
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
73. Woo hoo! Another thread to pit DUer against DUer!
:woohoo:
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taught_me_patience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
74. We seriously need to encourage more population growth
here in the united states. Our SS system is dependent on the next generation funding the generation previous to it. Without population growth, there will not be enough workers to fund SS in the future. Medicaid obligations are also going to be a problem w/out more population growth.

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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #74
95. Oh, yes...and there is NO Global Warming either...we need to burn more fossil fuels,
and see what other ways we can find to damage and destroy the planet. :silly:
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toddaa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
75. An asshole is someone who thinks they are superior to other people
If the lifestyle you choose to lead works for you, don't assume it's the best. When you do, you're an asshole.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #75
94. Really? And why is it that I get the same feeling about you?


When people don't have the wherewithal to get their point across with words or letters they resort to profanity. You are a perfect example of that tenet.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
76. Wow. What a load of pompous, obnoxious tripe. How dare you tell other people not to "breed".
Edited on Mon Jul-16-07 01:50 PM by impeachdubya
First off, here's an unpleasant little fact. You may not like it, you may not want to hear it, but it's a FACT:

The vast majority of overpopulation is NOT Taking place in this country, or in Europe, or in other relatively advanced nations that (for the time being) have enough autonomy from religous and other control-freak types that birth control is readily available, women can work outside the home, etc. etc. If you want to rant and rage and spew at people for "breeding", honestly- these are the facts, again- the place for you to do it is the Third World.

Oh, but that's not nearly as much fun as bitching at selfish American for having "spawn".

Want to address overpopulation? Ensure that women have self determination, and access to reproductive choice and birth control. Health Care and a decent standard of living. FREEDOM, decent education, and a measure of independence from backwards-ass religious "authorities". When those things are taken care of, populations tend to limit themselves. Look at Europe. Look at Japan.

Again, that's not as much fun as lecturing other people about how to live their lives.

I don't think you're jealous OR envious. If I told you what I think of you, this post would probably be deleted. Feh.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #78
82. .
:rofl:

:thumbsup:
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #78
93. Really? I can uderstand completely when the epithet is hurled at you...

:hi:
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
83. What the Fuck
What the fuck does overpopulation have to do with abusing children who are already here. Here is my post from that thread:


Toddlers are mobile babies. They are not old enough to understand that kind of request. LOOK IT UP ON A CHILD DEVELOPMENT SITE OR A PSYCHOLOGY SITE. MOBILE BABY. You cannot quiet a baby unless a baby wants to be quieted. A BABY. If the airline cannot handle a BABY the airline should not allow them. You cannot order an INFANT drugged. This flight attendant needs to be fired and find herself some meds.

As far as all the benefits and rights that flight attendants have lost and all they put up with, IRRELEVANT when it come to abusing a BABY and suggesting DRUGGING them. You don't get to abuse children because you are vocationally oppressed. I think she's a *word not allowed here*.

IF THE AIRLINE CANNOT HANDLE BABY BABBLING THE AIRLINE SHOULD NOT TAKE CHILD PASSENGERS. PERIOD. THEY CAN'T CLAIM TO TAKE THEM AND THEN ABUSE THEM.

Lee
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
86. Oh is my one child bothering you???
I'd expect that "breeder" comment from a Hillary fan.
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assclown_bush Donating Member (573 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. I am certain that you and your child have never been anywhere near me...

I don't go slumming. :hi:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #92
99. Good point!
We never go to Republican Conventions! :hippie:
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
88. Flamebait.
Poorly constructed flamebait. You could try harder - I suggest losing the "breeder" term on your next try.

Your mother must be so fucking proud of you. :rofl:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
90. Here are my comments
from a recent thread:

On one hand, I relate. I really do. I like kids well enough, but after spending my working life taking care of large numbers of other people's kids, I like to be kid free after work and on weekends when possible.

I have been on planes, in restaurants, movies, and other public places where kids' behavior er...detracted from the quality of the experience. Of course, part of that is a parental fault. I don't know how to legislate good parenting, though.

One of the things that used to really piss me off was finding kids in the bar section of restaurants. Damn. If I wanted to be where the kids were, I wouldn't have chosen a seat in the bar.

I also see this as a sort of back-handed recognition that a life can be full and fulfilling without children. Maybe a first step towards zero population growth, the most effective, imo, method of returning health to the planet.

Still...there's nothing inherently wrong with kids. They are naturally energetic, loud, impulsive, and less aware of others around them. That gradually changes as they grow. It's a healthy thing for people to include kids in real life, too. People who don't like to be around kids shouldn't be having them, imo. That right there would help with that zero population growth goal. Those that do should be able to include kids in normal community/society life. I don't think we need to separate them like pets or zoo animals until we've civilized them, lol.

Fewer kids...I think that's the answer. Instead of creating more "kid-free" zones, just create fewer kids. If there were fewer kids, they'd be more valued in their cultures/communities, they'd get more adult attention and therefore learn how to interact in mixed age groups sooner. Their language development, intellectual development, social and practical skills would be better developed. There would be fewer to overrun the beach, the bar, etc.. They are a natural part of the "village" when they don't overpopulate it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
101. Oh, no one's accusing the "child-free" of being assholes...
Just the assholes who happen to be child-free.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
102. Because some of us believe we could actually be really good parents
and raise children who can contribute to solving the world's problems. Yeah, they are "kids" for awhile. But they learn, just as you did.

Yes, I think there is overpopulation. Tell the pope about it and to stop telling people to not practice birth control. There are still too many people having more than two kids. Most of the ones I know are Catholic, except for one family.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-16-07 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
103. Locking
a) This is flame-bait.
b) The OP is no longer with us.
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