Why The Clinton/Edwards Scheme to Limit Number of Candidates Will Be Fatal to Both

[Dems Will Win]

I believe the open mic gaffe will turn out to be one of the most amazing events in political history and will finish Edwards, which will leave Obama as the anti-Hillary. Hillary herself will be mortally wounded as she has already lied about her saying cut the numbers of candidates. "We've got to cut the number" and "they're not serious." Then she said she meant the number of debates, not candidates - BULLSHIT!

They just handed the nomination to Obama.

It's not just the original gaffe now, it's lying about it. Even more important, we are seeing the candidates as they truly are -- and I'm very disappointed in Edwards. Everyone at least will see now that Edwards and Clinton are conniving politicians and putting on phony personas for the public. This is a disaster for both, as Obama comes across as genuine and what you see in public is how he is in private!

They just handed the nomination to Obama.

That's it for me with him. Hillary I expected stuff like this -- but for him to approach her!!

It made me think he's anti-war and anti-poverty just for political reasons!

The worst thing about it all is that limiting the number of candidates is so patently unfair -- especially because a late-breaking great candidate would be arbitrarily shut out.

That's not democracy -- that's more like Russian "democracy", where Putin decides who the candidates will be!!

This is going to dog Edwards and Clinton endlessly now that they lied about it and that the whole notion is anti-democracy.

What do you think? Am I right? Will this be fatal to both, or will it all blow over?

Kucinich is already going at them tooth-and-nail, accusing them of trying to rig the election!

And he's right...

We should try to have a more serious and a smaller group," Edwards said into Clinton's ear following a presidential forum Thursday in Detroit hosted by the NAACP.

Clinton agreed with Edwards, according to print reports and video footage of the exchange. "We've got to cut the number. ... They're not serious," she said.

Clinton also said she thought that representatives of her campaign and Edwards' had already tried to limit the debates, and "we've gotta get back to it," the Associated Press quoted her as saying.

The Kucinich campaign responded early Friday morning with a news release:

"Candidates, no matter how important or influential they perceive themselves to be, do not have and should not have the power to determine who is allowed to speak to the American public and who is not," the congressman said.

"Imperial candidates are as repugnant to the American people and to our Democracy as an imperial President."

The Kucinich campaign said it "will immediately take steps to address the planned actions of the Clinton and Edwards campaigns."

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200707/POL20070713b.html

Obama can win Iowa and New Hampshire now, where folks have no truck with this sort of thing. The smaller candidates can make TV Commercials of the video tape and the inisdious looking pictures.

And then there's Obama weighing in himself!!!!!!!!!!! He will look so Presidential and AMERICAN compared to them.

I think this is HUGE. What say you??

I really think this is fatal to both Edwards and Clinton

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

1. I disagree. This is a blip.

That's what say I. MKJ

[debbierlus]

2. Kucinich doesn't have the recognition or clout

I think it is a blip as well.

[Dems Will Win]

6. The press is going to ask them about nothing else for weeks

And Obama is going to condemn it. That will help him enormously.

It puts a whole slant on the election now that was not there before.

[Dems Will Win]

10. It's not what Kucinich says

It's what Obama says.

It's fundamentally anti-democratic and makes Edwards look like Hillary, coniving and political!

How do you exclude a Senator, a former Senator, or a Governor, or a Congressman??

They are elected high officials one and all.

This stinks and further spin on this from Hil and Edwards will only make it worse.

[mmonk]

3. We'll see.

It will make the next debates very interesting and I don't think they will look good. And for you people that crap on Kucinich (the constitution's candidate), I have no respect for you.

[pnwmom]

4. I think that's wishful thinking, coming from someone who doesn't

particularly like either one of them.

I think most people on some level agree with them -- with so many candidates on stage, there is too little time for discussion among the few candidates who actually have a chance at winning the nomination. Kucinich and Gravel, especially, are deluding themselves.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

5. just a blip...

unfortunately.

I really do like Edwards, but this doesn't look good. :(

[Double T]

7. With HRC and Edwards out of the race, DK will now move into first place.

(I should have been a poet):evilgrin:

[Alexander]

8. It will cost them some votes here or there. Whether or not it's fatal...

depends on how Senators Clinton and Edwards handle the criticism.

I think it makes Obama and Kucinich look good in comparison.

[Cameron27]

9. I think Obama might be able to cause some damage

depending on if, and how he plays it. Right now with only Kucinich protesting, I'm not sure how far this will go.

[illinoisprogressive]

11. It could be a macaca moment but, I really think this will hurt Edwards more.

If this plays out into a longer story than a day it will hurt Edwards more. Even though he told the truth today about this and hillary lied.
why?
Edwards campaign is struggling and he has had some trip ups in his campaign. this could hurt a wounded campaign.
the clintons own the media and they properly gush over her. They will spin it so it doesn't hurt her and only make it look like a blip. i.e. Craig Crawford on countdown tonight.
Somehow they will manage to make Obama look bad. how I don't know but, the media will do anything for the queen.

[iamjoy]

16. You May Be Right

People who don't like Hillary already think she's conniving, this doesn't shock anyone that she would do it.

On the other hand, although I believe Edwards has been shedding his Mr. Congeniality candidate image, some people still expect more of him. OTOH, since he is already down in the polls, he has less to "lose." In the end, I don't think this will be significant to his candidacy.

As for Obama, if he handles this right, he may come out ahead from it. He is being good not to jump on this and release a statement, that would make him look like an opportunist. However, if/when asked his thoughts he must answer carefully. It would be awful for him to make a statement against limiting debates and then have some one drag up a contradictory quote. If he does support smaller debates, he will have to put it in such a way as to not sound like he's in favor of limiting democracy.

[WinkyDink]

12. Big nothing.

[iamjoy]

13. A Lot of People Secretly Agree

They think the stage is too crowded and they look at some of these candidates like Gravel and maybe Dodd and wonder what the heck these guys are doing up there. It may not be fair, the media sort of picks which candidates to follow and that isn't necessarily the best, but that's how it is. Too many on stage and it's all too easy for candidates to fall into stump speeches and sound bites - not real debates. How does that help democracy?

Besides, it's just strategy on the part of Edwards, and everyone expects a campaign to strategize. It's kind of bad that he got caught, but I wouldn't say fatal. He'd already shed his image as the Mr. Congeniality candidate anyway. As for Hillary, people who like her probably don't see her as a perfect angel - just one smart, tough cookie. People who didn't like her before now have another reason, but I doubt this is the final straw for anybody.

I have the following challenge to anyone who talks about how this hurts democracy - come the general election, would you want all presidential candidates to participate in a debate? I can think of at least ten parties likely to have a candidate and for all we know, there may be more. Should we limit the debates? What criteria would you use to narrow the field? Why should the primary be different?

What criteria? Aye, there's the rub.

[Quixote1818]

14. Big deal. nt

[Dems Will Win]

17. Why?

[mudesi]

15. How about you vote for Kucinich, instead?

Please. Everyone. Just vote for Kucinich and he'll be elected.

[saracat]

18. What garbage. As if anyone even cares about this! Pfft!

[BenDavid]

19. Excuse me but watch the entire

conversation. They, HRC and Edwards kept right on discussing whatever it was, and oh there happened to appear Dennis K. Did they stop talking about the subject matter? NO! They did not and HRC thanked Dennis and oh by the way, did they stop talking or change subjects when Obama appeared? NO! and HRC thanked Obama as well.....There is no there, there....Wishing and hoping from the Obama camp....Maybe what you all should do is try a third time to upstage the HRC camp, (like the Indian comment) and lets see how quick you get your asses handed to you on a plate, one more time....I would hope you on the Obama wing do not try to go further with this...It will only be embarassing for him.

I do thank you
Ben David

[uppityperson]

20. I think this is minor and will pass.

[Zomby Woof]

21. For a political website

I have never read so much unknowledgable tripe about politics than I have right here. It's an undistilled ignorance which is remarkable in its purity.

Anyone who thinks this is new, or unprecedented, or surprising, or in any way some kind of departure from the norm needs to buy 'The Prince', 'The Art of War', and maybe take a night class in civics at the local community college. Jesus Christ on a cracker! Buy the Cliff's Notes if you must, but please get REAL about politics and politicians.

There is nothing phony about Edwards or Clinton. They are as real as politicians get. This is what politicians DO. They run, and they run to win. They have to be merciless and bloody. I have never seen such hand-wringing, drama, and just plain wussifed pansy behavior about politics than I have right HERE.

This isn't cynicism, which realism is often confused with on DU though.

[peace frog]

22. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

:boring:

[MonkeyFunk]

23. wow...

that's the most overreaching, near-hysterical analysis of this I've seen.

This will have NO effect on Clinton or Edwards. It's a minor story, and not even particularly newsworthy. Of COURSE the candidates want more face-time on camera. That's news?