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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 10:09 PM
Original message
The Time Has Come For Dems To Risk Doing The Right Thing...
As a party we cannot play it safe and hope that the public will continue to support Dems at the polls in 2008.

Sometimes you have to take a chance and strike out on a path that is uncertain because it is the right thing to do. Democrats find themselves at that point today.

The public is behind the effort to end this war in Iraq. The public will be against the secrecy and corruption of this Administration when they understand. The public in many ways is ahead of Congress on both issues.

If Democrats in Congress do not ACT instead of seeking the safest possible political avenue, the public will turn against them. Guaranteed.

Tell Democrats in Congress to act. Today. Tell them again tomorrow. And the day after.

Tell Democrats in Congress if they do not act, the people will hold them accountable. They will be unemployed.

Tell them because we cannot afford to wait until Nov 2008.

Tell them no risk no gain. Tell them there is no other choice. Tell them ...
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JamesA1102 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. How can they act when they only have a one seat majority
and the Republicans keep obstructing everything they try to get through the Senate? How can they stop the war with Joe Lieberman holding a gun to their head threatening to go over the GOP (and giving them the majority) if they cut funding?
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. They can keep
working on turning around enough RePukes to gain votes and keep submitting legislation that does what's right and let the RePukes keep embarrassing and making fools of themselves by obstructing everything.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That didn't seem to stop the Repos when they held a small majority. For some reason,
only the Repo minority has strength. When the Dems were in the minority a lot of very bad Repo sponsored legislation passed.

What's with that?
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. What about that guy...what's his name?
Edited on Mon Jun-25-07 12:47 AM by Truth2Tell
Oh yes.. Phil A. Buster. Whata guy.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 04:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. They could have done the right thing ...
by simply accepting Bush's veto of the first supplemental funding bill. But they didn't have the courage.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. funny how folks think it takes courage to first FAIL to get enough support
for a large enough coalition in Congress for ANY way to effectively get Bush to remove the troops from Iraq, and then propose to cut the funds intended for the stranded troops anyway -- many of which were personally added by our own anti-occupation Democrats like Murtha to address the neglect of the previous republican-controlled Congress.

That's not 'courage' which intends to withhold money intended for the troops hoping that Bush would notice or care enough to end his occupation, it's negligent and foolish.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. Here's a start
They can work to get other Republicans to vote with them. Its not as though most GOP'ers are going to get a free ride at the polls in 2008.

I'm really surprised we even have to explain this, haven't any of them read the instruction manual for serving in Congress?
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Yeah, with a one-seat majority, how can they even bear to show their faces...
Yeah, with a one-seat majority, how can they even bear
to show their faces in public, let alone speak out
forcefully about what's wrong and what they intend to
do about it and would do about it if only they could...

Tesha
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
21. They can throw their hearts into it.
They can muster passion for doing what's right, rather than bickering over minutiae within the same old bills. They can refuse to buy into Republican framing, and ridicule GOP talking points at every turn.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. You are right Democrats are helpless
Why bother doing anything other than what the extreme right wing wants? Americans don't care one bit..They did not put Democrats in the majority to make any changes..I mean really folks. Why bother??? :shrug:
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's largely too late for a while now. The war issue is set in stone for now...
These really awful congressional approval numbers will not change overnight and the sad, cynical way to see it is that there's plenty of time for those numbers to recover by '08.

What would help is to do something about substance, but if that's not in the cards - and let's face it, it isn't - little can be done but grinning and bearing it in the big picture for now. That sucks, but that's how it is.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Not at all
Those numbers are bad because nothing was done about the war.

Getting busy and doing something about it will raise those approval numbers. It really is that simple.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
23. It's equally simple that they're not going to do anything about the war.
If I'm proven wrong I'll change my mind, same as a lot of the polled people.
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Independent Democrat Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Methinks Dem voters need to grow up........
and realize that being a party of change in this country means circumventing the power of do-nothing/corporatist entities like the DLC and the Third Way. Otherwise, we'll just have to get used to being disappointed again and again.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. Tell Them What Specifically?
Cut the funding?
Bring the troops home now?
Impeach?
Fix Prescription Drug Prices?
Deal with the rising debt crisis cause by a disastrous Bankruptcy bill and shitty economy?
Assistance for colleges and student aid before a college education is too expensive?
Reviewing and revising Telcom '96 to give more local ownership and voices back on our airwaves?

There's a long list of things Democrats need to do and sadly can't wave a magic wand to make it happen. It requires 60 or 67 votes in cases of a veto over-ride or just to keep debate going. Sadly there aren't 10 or 17 Repugnicans in the Senate with any decency whatsoever (other than Hagel when it comes to Iraq) to go against what they know has been a disastrous regime.

The street of broken dreams are filled with gamblers who rolled too early or with a bad hand...you only hear of the successful ones. Taking risk is important, but it must be done smart...with an assurance of some type of victory resulting from it. Just running up votes that will not pass may feel good to some but does little. Strategic votes are a key...using them to frame the Repugnicans.

Sadly some people here want the mirror image of what we detest...a monolithic party with little room for debate or discussion. It's my way or the highway. For those with that mindset...be prepared to be very disappointed.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. Congress 101
They need to learn to win more GOP'ers to their side. They need to keep fighting the battle in public to keep the pressure on, even if it means losing to Bush again and again. They have the power of public opinion behind them.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. Somebody asked me if I thought Bush was going to martial law to
Edited on Mon Jun-25-07 12:38 AM by autorank
stay in power. My response was, why would he, there's no opposition. And there isn't.

Below, note that conservativeRepublican legal scholar is challenging the WH on their dreadful disrespect for habeas corpus. The bill that makes any US citizen lose this right was passed with Democratic support. Not by the leadership but by key members of the House and Senate.

Violating a rihgt won in the 12th century, the right to know your accuser and the crime you're charged with and obtain defense, is so fundamentally wrong, no one should have voted for it.

But there is no real opposition, thus martial law is not necessary. There's no reason to expect that the folks who let this happen will be emboldened any time soon.

SFGate 01.24.2007

Bruce Fein, a former Reagan Justice Department attorney who has become an outspoken critic of the Bush administration, noted that the day before his Judiciary Committee appearance, Gonzales had denounced "activist judges'' and advised them to stay out of national security matters.

Gonzales' comments to the committee on habeas corpus, Fein said, contained a message that "Congress doesn't have to let them (judges) decide national security matters.''

"It's part of an attempt to create the idea that during conflicts, the three branches of government collapse into one, and it is the president,'' Fein said.

Gonzales: There is no express grant of habeas in the Constitution. There's a prohibition against taking it away. ...

Specter: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The Constitution says you can't take it away except in cases of rebellion or invasion. Doesn't that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there's an invasion or rebellion?

Gonzales: I meant by that comment, the Constitution doesn't say every individual in the United States or every citizen is hereby granted or assured the right to habeas. Doesn't say that. It simply says the right of habeas corpus shall not be suspended except...

Specter: You may be treading on your interdiction and violating common sense, Mr. Attorney General.

Source: Senate Judiciary Committee transcript
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. The "frog in the pot" syndrome continues! nt
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. "Hey, this water isn't so bad...I still have my SUV and life is good."
Said the porcine frog...

:hi:
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Now you're showing off. I had to look up "porcine." But now that...
...I know that word, I'm seeing porcine types all around me. Like when you see a purple car on the freeway, and then all of a sudden, you become aware of a *lot* of purple cars.

Cheers! :)
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent idea.
I don't agree with all the concepts in the blog I'm linking to below, but I think it makes this point MAGNIFICENTLY. I don't believe Reid needs to be as low as Rove, nor as vicious as many of the GOP brown shirts, but there is a lesson in street fighting here. If the Dems use their wits & passion to launch a great fight, they will undoubtedly be surprised at the number of GOP sheep who follow their lead because they want to be elected! The Dems can't count on winning every battle, but they can count on winning the election if they do the right thing!

"If Reid were Rove", by David Michael Green
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8253
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. If Reid Were Rove
Great essay, thanks for the link.

It is truly amazing to ponder how, in just a few short months, Reid and Pelosi have become less popular than Bush. The only thing Americans like less than lying dictators is weak leaders.

Americans love winners. They love leaders who act like winners, even when they're losing. Its that simple.
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Beer Snob-50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 07:30 AM
Response to Original message
17. the democrats do have to just keep ramming bills thru
giving deadlines, cutting off funding, ect. at first i agreed with the concept of playing nice and trying to work together, but bush doesn't. it is his way or the highway. in the meantime, many are dying on a daily basis. WE HAVE TO END THIS MESS NOW!!! if it means playing the impeachment card, great!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
18. somebody tell the critics that our Democrats ARE working hard
Our party isn't 'playing safe', that's just a lie being pushed by folks who haven't yet gotten their way on impeachment.

But I want to know why an impeachment which many proponents say would be just fine WITHOUT A CONVICTION, is so superior to the other efforts our Democrats are making to hold the administration accountable; many of which may well lead to some outside prosecution which could galvanize the majority of the institution behind the extreme remedy?

Every step they take short of impeachment is automatically dismissed BY FOLKS WHO STILL CLAIM THEY WANT TO HOLD THE ADMINISTRATION ACCOUNTABLE.

But, you WON"T get to ANY conviction, ANY prosecution, or ANY impeachment without the benefit of investigations like the ones already underway.

And, I would note that these investigations by our Democrats in this Congress are taking place BEFORE any prosecution or convictions like the Watergate committee had at their disposal BEFORE they eventually convened. They're AHEAD of the curve, and still taking flack.

Mindless for folks who claim to be so concerned with holding the administration accountable to keep harping on them and unilaterally portraying their every effort ineffectual, while refusing to highlight ANY of their efforts already underway.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. IMO, the risk is not doing the right things.
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. Democrat and risk should not be used in the same sentence....
until Junior's popularity hits single digits.
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. When you say, "Risk Doing the Right Thing", what are you talking about?
I mean, there are so many 'right things' to do in face of all the friggin' "WRONG THINGS" done by this sadistic, lying cabal.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-25-07 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
25. I got a call yesterday from the
Obama campaign asking, of course, for money. I explained to the caller that I was quite upset with the Democrats for not doing what they were sent to Washington to do. Her answer was "we don't have the votes".....to which I replied, "I don't care as long as they take a stand." It's not just about winning it's about standing up.

I will continue with my own pledge of NOT ONE DAMN DIME and not one minute of my time will they get until they quit waffling and take a stand.

I'm sick of the posturing and politics and excuses. They need to do what's right and make a lot of noise about it and if they can't pass legislation because of lack of votes then it's on the republican's heads.



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