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High-fives Could Mean Detention For Students In Va. ''No Touching'' School

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 01:09 AM
Original message
High-fives Could Mean Detention For Students In Va. ''No Touching'' School
High-fives could mean detention for students in Va. school

AP
POSTED: 5:30 p.m. EDT, June 18, 2007

VIENNA, Virginia (AP) -- A show of affection almost landed a teenage boy in detention. Hugging was 13-year-old Hal Beaulieu's crime when he sat next to his girlfriend at lunch a few months ago and put his arm around her shoulder. He was let off with a warning, but the cost of a repeat offense could be detention.

A rule against physical contact at Kilmer Middle School, about 10 miles west of Washington, is so strict that students can be sent to the principal's office for hugging, holding hands or even high-fiving. "I think hugging is a good thing," said Hal, a seventh-grader. "I put my arm around her. It was like for 15 seconds. I didn't think it would be a big deal."

Unlike some schools, which ban fighting or inappropriate touching, Kilmer Middle School bans all touching. But that doesn't seem necessary to Hal and his parents. They've sent a letter asking the county school board to review the rule.

But at a school of 1,100 students that was meant to accommodate 850, school officials think touching can turn into a big deal. They've seen pokes lead to fights, gang signs in the form of handshakes and girls who are uncomfortable being hugged but embarrassed to say anything.

"You get into shades of gray," Kilmer Principal Deborah Hernandez said. "The kids say, 'If he can high-five, then I can do this.' " Hernandez said the no-touching rule is meant to ensure that students are comfortable and that crowded hallways and lunchrooms stay safe. She said school officials are allowed to use their judgment in enforcing the rule. Typically, only repeat offenders are reprimanded.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06/18/no.touching.rul...



No Touching!!! Oh, sorry. I didn't know that was you God...
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Grrrr . . . .
and what is so wrong about shades of gray?

This is the same problem with zero tolerance rules everywhere -- administrators who are afraid of actually having to make decisions.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Decisions made by public officials....
...without the aid of a lawyer present to guide them???

Surely you jest!

:D
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murloc Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. You think touching is bad..wait till they start talking !!
Students talking to each other is the root of most touching. Its quite rare that a student will touch, high five or hug a student if they've never spoken.

Of course that pales in comparison to teacher/student conversations, which can lead to all sorts of inappropriate touching.

Remember, conversation is simply a gateway activity to touching.

Really, the school should just ban all touching, talking and communicating.

That should get rid of all those "shades of grey"
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Or, they could just ban ALL the students....
...that'll solve all their problems.

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Schools are prisons... Foucault was right
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Yes.
But a prison with GIRLS!!!!! j/k

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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. How do the kids play contact sports?
In basketball you cannot avoid skin contact with "your man." All zone defense I suppose.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Not to mention "Touch Football".... n/t
:wtf:
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-24-07 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
25. You know better than to ask a question like that
Contact sports are not on the NCLB test.

Hence, there are no contact sports at this school.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
7. When my oldest son
was in kindergarten, I was called to an afterschool meeting to discuss a "problem." A girl had fallen on the playground, and started to cry. My son had gone over, helped her to her feet, and kissed her on the cheek in an attempt to make her feel better.

We lived near a hamlet where every family knew one another. The class had about 14 or 15 children, and they were all friends. I had gone to school with the little girl's parents, and our children had played together before entering kindergarten.

The teacher became frustrated when I did not agree that my son's behavior was a problem. She called the principal into our meeting, and both women told me that I was wrong to take the position I was taking.

I ended up being called to school a few more times over the years. I always backed the school when my children did anything wrong. I think my son has grown to be a good man. He is a social worker, and people tell me that they admire the fact that he really cares about people.

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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I've had similar experiences when my kids were in school...
...and I concluded that they've got a script and they're sticking to it! And any parent who has the temerity to throw roadblocks into their plans for assimilation become suspect themselves. Soon, you're tagged just like your kid.

I see a lot of this happening now, as an outgrowth of the devaluation of education that goes back to the 70s. After Watergate, college students all wanted to become reporters or lawyers. Then the 80s an 90s turned everyone to business. Education majors were few and far between and the quality of those students dropped precipitously.

Now the schools have become nothing more than a battleground of contesting values of the religious-right and those within the educational establishment who are trying to preserve and protect themselves and their institution from further encroachment and control. With the kids and us parents stuck in the middle of it all.

BTW, I love the pic! Simply adorable! :)
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's pretty obvious why these stupid rules exist: FEAR OF LAWSUITS.
Schools don't want to get sued because they are accused of "not trying to prevent harassment."
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. You are today's recipient of the coveted: "YOU NAILED IT" award....

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Thank you!
:)
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. My first question, why does the school have 1100 students when it's meant to accomodate 850?
According to the Republic Party we spend plenty of money on education and that spending more is just throwing money at a problem.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I'm not sure....
...but I'd bet that their answer to that question has the word: "immigrant" mixed in somewhere....

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. If this were a school in California, I'd believe it
But I don't believe that a school in Virginia is overcrowded with 250 illegal immigrants.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Believe me, its not just the state of California....
...that immigrants are moving into.

This is from an August 2006, AlterNet article:

"The Music City (Nashville) has ranked first among U.S. cities since 1990 in immigration growth, and now has the largest community of Kurdish refugees in the United States."

Nashville's New Nativism @ Alternet

The south is ironcally where the rhetoric against immigrants seems loudest and yet the influx of illegal immigrants feeds the argicultural industry and well as the meat processing plants. They can get away with paying them low wages and if they complain, they're gone.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Something like that got wonderfully killed in my neck of the woods
Edited on Sat Jun-23-07 04:07 PM by Posteritatis
This was Back In The Day, the '99-'00 school year.

Some dumbass principal decreed that contact equals violence, period, in his junior high school. In the first semester after they implemented the policy, a third of the student body got suspended for things like handshakes and whatnot. That's not taking into account the other idiocies of the policy, anyway.

Going into the second semester it kept going with a bunch of people suspended again for various things - it being winter, the area outside the school was frictionless, and helping people up if they slipped was considered fighting - and the students just lost it. Something between most and all of the student body walked out of classes, and said they weren't going back in until the school revisited the policy. Principal threatened to discipline the whole body, a bunch of them responded that he was going to anyway.

To make it even better, a couple of other junior high schools in the area proceeded to do the same thing! Most of their policies were far less batshit-insane, but they were pissed off enough at that anyway.

After a couple of days of that, the school board finally folded; they dropped the policy, allowed the students to have reps on hand to help draft a new one, and the principal Just Happened To Find A More Interesting Position Elsewhere after that school year. The schools tried to squeeze in a new version of it after a couple of years - of course - but it wasn't a fraction as ridiculous as the original one. None of the students were touched for the walkout, either.

And these were a bunch of seventh through ninth-graders pulling that off. Fantastic in the extreme.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I love that line!!!
"Just Happened To Find A More Interesting Position Elsewhere"

That phrase is the cousin to: "I going to spend more time with my family."

:rofl:
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Holy fuck, what whas that principal thinking???
:crazy:

I love the students' reaction to that BS.
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dkofos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is just to fucking ridiculous,
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. So, CPR would be out of the question if needed?
Wow.
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DeSwiss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. A scenario based upon your idea....
Student: Sir, a girl is lying in the hall and she isn't breathing. Maybe she needs CPR?

Principal: Well, its against the rules for you to touch. You know I can't approve for you to put your mouth over hers!!!

Student: But sir, she's dying!!!

Principal: Policies are policies. If I let you give CPR to this one, next thing you know you'll be suturing wounds and setting broken arms. No, its out of the question. Move along, there's nothing to see here....

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-23-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hm. I thought Air Fives were the way to go these days.
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