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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:00 AM
Original message
The TRUTH about Monkeyman
There have been questions & doubts raised over the internet about Monkeyman/Dale Peters for some time; now there are questions & doubts being raised about his death.

Monkeyman/Dale Peters passed away on May 27. Services were @ Modell Funeral Home. His remains have been cremated.

You may verify the info yourself by contacting:

Modell Funeral Home
7710 South Cass Avenue
Darien, IL 60559
(630) 852-3595

If anyone says that they have contacted the Modell Funeral Home, and that the Modell Funeral Home has no info regarding Dale Peters, they are not being truthful.


I did not know Monkeyman/Dale when he served in the military; I knew him as the beautiful soul that posted here @ DU... the man who cared so much about & did so much for his fellow vets... the man who cared so much about all of us, vets or non-vets.

The truth about Monkeyman/Dale is that he was a loving person; we were fortunate to be a part of his life.

Monkeyman, wherever your soul is now, know that you remain in my heart.



Ten Hut RIP my dear Monkeyman



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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks so much for this, S B. He's in my heart, too;
I miss him greatly.
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. That is sad.
To think someone would be shallow enough to think this was a hoax....sigh...

RIP Monkeyman
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. I know why you did this
but I think it might be a mistake to have this info public given the problems you and others are citing.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't think you do.
There have been questions raised right here, and I don't appreciate Monkeyman's memory being smeared.

The info about the funeral home was initially given @ http://www.veteransforamerica.org/index.cfm/page/weblog... . The information can be verified by contacting them.


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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
20. As long as it is already public then I don't see a problem
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
112. I don't know what happened Blue, (I haven't visited in a few days)
but I don't think I want to know. They better lay off Monkeyman.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. They can't hurt Monkeyman any more. (nt)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
124. That's exactly how I felt when Andy left us.
They can't hurt him any more.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #124
143. never mind
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 09:00 AM by Stephanie
Ignore my questions - I just read the rest of the thread. :hi:
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. Every time they reveal themselves...
As some of the lowest, vilest, most broken toys on the planet, you just can't believe they cannot ever one-up themselves, ever again. Then they one-up themselves.

What sad, gray, featureless lives they must live. How barren.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. They are primarily homebound due to illness and/or unemployment.
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 11:25 AM by The_Casual_Observer
They are simply spreading the joy.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. Tandalayo, consider their role models: reagan, bush, cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, kristol ...
... hannity, rush, dildo'reilly, beck, weiner, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. And the same attitude is right here at DU...
Lest we think it's such a black and white issue, take note of one response to a soldier's death that was posted right here on DU, but a long-time poster:

"Why would any mother allow their son to join a military which is out of control because their commander in chief is out of control."

Blame mothers, blame the soldiers, bad-mouth others in order to feel superior.

It isn't just "the other side" that does that.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks could you explain what role KOS had in this
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. See post #7
CUers hounded Monkeyman about his wife's death over at dKos.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Thank you
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
49. No, they did not. Kossacks figured out that Monkeyman wasn't being
truthful. They weren't CU'ers. Check my handle....I've never posted once on CU. But, I have posted thousands and thousands of times on DU and dKos. I'm a bonafide progressive and a card carrying liberal Democrat.

None of that matters. Dale Peters was not a Veteran. He never served overseas. In fact, he was discharged directly after basic training. His records were obtained by the POW/MIA Network. Not only do they keep track of real veterans and POW's, they also keep track and investigate phonies based on tips from the public. I believe that they also try to have charges brought against those that falsely wear a uniform or medals in public that they did not earn. Dale Peters was brought to their attention military support websites, as well as both Democratic and Republican political discussion sites like DU. The fact is that he spread his hoaxes far and wide. He may have had his heart in the right place and I appreciate him bringing focus to veterans issues, but he was not a veteran. If you or anyone would like verification, please feel free to contact www.pownetwork.org . Just click on the "Phony Veterans" tab and look for him alphabetically. They have his military records and they will verify this for you. They even have a picture of whoever it was claiming to be Dale Peters at a veterans party.

People, I do ask that you be respectful in your replies to me. I know that some will think that I'm trying to "smear" Dale Peters, but I assure you that I am not. I do think it is important for the truth to be known before people begin donating money and calling him a hero. Praise him for his work to bring attention to veterans issues, but please - please - do not call him a veteran.

Being skeptical is what brought me to places like DU and Daily Kos. I was skeptical of the information leading up to the Iraq War. I'm skeptical that Bush actually won either of those elections. I suspect that our skepticism is what brought most of us here. So, please do not bash me for being skeptical of some of Dale's outrageous claims. Those claims prompted myself and others to begin asking questions. And the more we looked into it, the more it became clear that it was all a hoax. The only response from Dale and his defenders has been to do nothing but name calling and say that we are insulting veterans everywhere. Complete hog wash. We caught him in many, many lies. Did you know that on other websites he claimed to have 2 sons in Iraq - one who was severely injured and at Walter Reed? It wasn't until a kind soul tried to send his son a get well package and it came back as "recipient unknown" that the hoax began to unravel. Then he posted a pic of his son meeting Bush. Except that it was quickly discovered to be a stock photo and not his son at all. Then the paratroopers got involved and that was it for Dale at those military websites. They 100% verified that Dale did not have any sons serving in the military. Around the time that he was kicked off of those sites, he started posting here at DU. He had nearly 5,000 posts in his first 6 months.

I know that people will be skeptical of me....and that's fine. I feel comfortable with the facts and I feel comfortable that if any of you actually look into, you too will see that much of what he posted about himself just wasn't true. I'm sorry to say it. I would have stayed out of it if these threads hadn't been front page news here for the last week. I mean, didn't anyone think it was odd that "Major Hannafin" accused DU and dKos of killing Dale? And that thread was on top of the greatest list for most of the week!

Anyway.....have at me. I've said my peace. I really hope we can have a respectful, thoughtful dialogue about what has happened here.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. The man is dead
No one is asking for any money. All that is being asked is that people such as yourself stop your insane stalking.

Stop it. He is dead.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. Oh my gosh.
I am respectful of the fact that he has passed. I posted that I appreciate his work in bringing attention to veterans issues.

I have not stalked anybody for one second. I just passed along links to websites that have information on Dale.

I'm really trying to be respectful. I have not posted on this all week. It is just that a lot of people here seem to be under the impression that he is a veteran. Out of respect for real veterans everywhere, I think that it is insulting and people have the right to know the truth.

We are not the kool-aid drinkers that come from the other side. We don't just believe every single thing that we are told. We get the facts and then move from there. Why is it so hard to believe that some of us with questions might actually be good people?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Spamming the thread
How many posts is this in the last thirty minutes, about a half dozen perhaps?

Give it a rest. Monkeyman has died.

Peace.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. I'm not spamming.
I'm just responding. I have like 6 posts in the last hour. Hardly record breaking.

I'm exiting this drama as well. As Monkeyman's passing reminds us all, life is too short.

The information is there for people to make up their own minds.

Peace to you as well.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. I don't see how this is spamming. 6 non-repetative posts in 1/2 hr is spamming?
I understand your concern, but this is not spammin.

Duplicate Topics and Spamming

Do not post duplicate topics that have already been posted. There are different levels of enforcement in different forums. For example, the Latest Breaking News forum has extremely strict rules against duplicate topics, but the General Discussion forum is much more lenient. Cross posting of duplicates in the two General Discussion forums is not permitted. Cross-posting of duplicates in other forums is occasionally permitted if there is a clear reason for doing so.

Do not spam the message board by posting the same message repeatedly, or by posting a flood of different messages. We have an automatic spam filter which blocks out members who post numerous messages in a short period of time.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #77
82. When responding to one of his posts
which was attached to one of mine, I saw approximately six others posted sporadically in the thread, all within a very short time frame. All with the same message. "Monkeyman is a big fat liar, I say he is not a vet".

Sure different words in each post but all had the same message. If that is not spam, what is it?

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. Could you maybe understand how veterans feel about this?
please
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Since I've lived my entire life surrounded by them
sure, I can relate.

What I do not understand is that upon a DUer's death a hate campaign was started against him. He is dead. He is wanting nothing from no one. Leave him alone.





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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. people do reply a bunch of times in various ways, it is a discussion, heated, yes
"Praise him for his work to bring attention to veterans issues, but please - please - do not call him a veteran." This is what the poster is saying, not "MM is a big fat liar". I understand that smearing someone is nasty. But, which is worse, giving info that shows questionable things while also giving kudos for good things, or not addressing questionable things, on a topic calling for TRUTH. If a topic is about TRUTH, and there are questionable things, it seems the place to bring them up.

Rather than copy/pasting the whole post over and over (which would be spamming), poster has referred people to that post.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #85
89. Excuse me. This is my OP. It says:
The TRUTH about Monkeyman

There have been questions & doubts raised over the internet about Monkeyman/Dale Peters for some time; now there are questions & doubts being raised about his death.

Monkeyman/Dale Peters passed away on May 27. Services were @ Modell Funeral Home. His remains have been cremated.

You may verify the info yourself by contacting:

Modell Funeral Home
7710 South Cass Avenue
Darien, IL 60559
(630) 852-3595

If anyone says that they have contacted the Modell Funeral Home, and that the Modell Funeral Home has no info regarding Dale Peters, they are not being truthful.


I did not know Monkeyman/Dale when he served in the military; I knew him as the beautiful soul that posted here @ DU... the man who cared so much about & did so much for his fellow vets... the man who cared so much about all of us, vets or non-vets.

The truth about Monkeyman/Dale is that he was a loving person; we were fortunate to be a part of his life.

Monkeyman, wherever your soul is now, know that you remain in my heart.



Ten Hut RIP my dear Monkeyman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...




If anyone wishes to dispute his military record, I would really appreciate their taking it elsewhere; that is not what my OP is about, nor is it the purpose for this thread. People were questioning his death, for God's sake.

"The truth about Monkeyman/Dale is that he was a loving person; we were fortunate to be a part of his life."

The truth.


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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. That is a good idea. We've established that Dale Peters died.
Scout1071, want to start a new topic on this? Another question is will the mods allow it, or delete/lock as an offshoot of another flamey topic.

The issues seem to be getting mixed up here.
1. Dale Peters was at Modell funeral home, I called this morning and am satisfied with that.

2. Monkeyman posted a lot of good stuff here, brought a lot of attention to veterans issues and I very much thank him for that. Monkeyman is gone from DU and I will miss him. He was a loving person, we were fortunate to be a part of his life.

3. Was he honest about his military status? I don't know. This is a separate issue from whether or not he was a loving person, whether or not we were fortunate to be a part of his life. It needs to be addressed since, in my opinion, faking it is a wrong thing to do.



Having #3 in its own thread would be a good idea, but please realize that putting "the truth" in your OP will bring out questions about #3.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. I, for one, would seriously appreciate it if you would.
Ane I will stay clear of that thread.

IMO, it would not be a 'continuation' of this thread, as Monkeyman's/Dale's military record was not a subject of my OP. It was brought to this thread by others.

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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #91
99. Somebody else can start that thread.
I'm done. As I said from my first post on the subject, I didn't come here to argue. I appreciate the respectful discussion that I've had with many DU'ers on this thread and privately who've reached out.

Farewell Monkeyman. Rest in peace.

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #99
100. Here you go:
Doubts about Monkeyman's military service.: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #89
126. Poor Monkeyman I adored him
My prayers for his family
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
56. Take it & "Hanoi Jane" elsewhere.
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 05:13 PM by Sapphire Blue
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. Please,
why is it so hard to be respectful? Why the name calling? I am not running around saying nasty things and trying to denigrate the man. I am one of many DU'ers that had questions about his veteran status. And I am satisfied that we know the truth. Can you for one second consider that we might be right? And that we might actually be good people who care about the repuation of this and other progressive sites? Will you even go to the link at www.pownetwork.org and read for yourself?

Please Sapphire Blue...I am asking for an honest, open discussion here. Not just insults.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. Please,
... take it elsewhere. If you wish to discuss Monkeyman's military career, please do it elsewhere... another thread of your own, or another site.

I wasn't "name-calling. "Hanoi Jane" is from the website to which you linked.

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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. the subject of this thread is the truth about monkeyman.
so, you should expect to see people discussing and seeking the truth. you have been, and are being, extremely nasty. as are others in this thread.
the problem of people pretending to be vets is as old as war, and as ugly a scourge. i do not know what the truth is in this case, but i do know that the people seeking it are trying hard to be respectful. just who is smearing whom here?
this is a serious issue, and a serious problem. it is no less a scourge, robbien, if there is no money involved. it is a grave insult to people who did serve to have others pretend.
i am really saddened to see respectful requests to look at the facts treated in this way. really, really saddened.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #90
96. See posts 99, 101, and 105
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #90
103. Please take it here:
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
67. name calling
is not appropriate.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Accusations of name calling are not appropriate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I don't particularly care for websites that post about "Hanoi Jane".

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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. So, you discount every single thing on the site?
And there has been a great deal of name-calling in this thread and many others.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. In a word, yes.
You implied that I had called you names. I did not.

Now, please go away.

Thank you.

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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #75
130. But you have called some of us names -- including calling em a liar
Because, I have posted that there is NO record of Peters at the funeral home. I'm not known as a liar on this board.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #130
148. If you posted that, you have NOT posted truthul information. Period.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. The Dkos thread
is not exactly a right-wing site
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/15/9311/84467
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/16/142957/654

Maybe just maybe other DUer's have seen this and wondered.


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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #79
142. I had my doubts already, but that Dkos thread is very compelling
As I said upthread, we have as much right to doubt as anyone else has to believe. That doesn't make us scum, or liars, or Freepers.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #142
149. Please take it here:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #149
162. No, I won't
Certain smears and accusations have been made against DUers who doubt Monkeyman or things you've raised in your OP. Good DUers are being vilified for asking questions and having very real, legit doubts. YOU don't get to decide who gets to post where.

I'm disappointed in you. You've always been such a champion of truth.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #162
168. Obviously.
Questions & doubts were raised regarding Monkeyman's death. In my OP, I provided anyone having doubts a means to lay their doubts to rest. To the best of my recollection, only one person replying to this thread actually contacted the funeral home. That poster provided confirmation of Dale Peters' death.

Doubts regarding MM's military service were not addressed in my OP; they were brought to this thread by others. At the very least, those posts are off topic. They might even be considered a violation of the rules... the rule that states: "Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum." (I'm not sure how membership works when a DUer passes away, whether or not they are still considered 'members'.) Whatever the case, it is up to the mods/Admin to determine what is permissible here.

If you're disappointed in me, so be it. I live according to my conscience.

My truth is that Monkeyman was a loving person.

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. Then you can ask for a lock. But you alone cannot "direct traffic" on
a thread. As a generally caring and kind woman who was taken for a ride by CubanLiberal and Paddy... I have my concerns as well. DU is an opinion board. All opinions are allowed to be posted, until moderators or admin deem otherwise Sapphire. You know that. My heart goes out to MonkeyMan's family...whoever they are, but I can't quite forget his disrespect of me or my uncle's lifelong military career. Thank you.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #149
164. In case you've forgotten, the nuclear block function has been killed.
You don't get to say who posts in your thread. It's not your board.

Stop telling people to take it elsewhere.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #164
166. No, I haven't forgotten; that's why I'm asking people to take it elsewhere.
Take it easy Midlo; you're not a mod anymore.

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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #166
167. LOL.
:eyes:
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #166
171. ...
:eyes:
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #166
174. I do not believe Midlo is the one who needs to take it easy.
Thank you.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. Appreciate him bringing his focus to vets issues. Indeed.
"He may have had his heart in the right place and I appreciate him bringing focus to veterans issues, but he was not a veteran"
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. *** WHOEVER GOES TO THAT LINK, CHECK OUT THE "HANOI JANE" LINK OVER THERE, TOO.***
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
80. This link? Looks like they really hate her. Are you saying "questionable source"?
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 05:52 PM by uppityperson
http://www.pownetwork.org/fonda/fonda_index.htm
If you are saying this is a questionable source, please do so directly. If you are saying they hate Jane Fonda, then please be direct also. Thank you.
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4bucksagallon Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #49
145. I agree with you......... all the checking I have done leads me to that conclusion too.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #145
150. Please take it here:
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. What happened at Kos was not entirely as portrayed here. n/t
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. I think they convinced many of the members over there ...

and it drove Monkeyman/Dale Peters away. I even think I remember some saying he was then banned. If you are a member @ Dkos ... do a search. Many of the most vicious attackers are members in good standing there still.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #46
119. He was banned months before for breaking one of Kos' rules about attribution of
material in a post. The banning preceded and had nothing to do with later events.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. Do you know what killed him?
Was he sick? I didn't know much about his health...
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. He died of heart failure.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Someone told me he died of a broken heart
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 11:35 AM by dogday
so soon after losing his wife... That could also be true... Such a shame...

RIP Mr. and Mrs. Peters
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Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
27. "Someone told me he died of a broken heart"
It can happen. My dad died 14 months after my mom died, the day he sold the house they shared and he had a massive heart attack and NO history of heart problems. I have no doubt he died of a broken heart.
Lee
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Statistics have shown that lifelong mates die within two yrs. of each other...
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 01:15 PM by Breeze54
Sorry for your loss. My parents were married for 50 years and died within five yrs. of each other.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
74. My parents were married for75 years and also died 5 years of each other .
I'm sure my Mother would have died even sooner if she didn't have Alzheimer's and often couldn't remember her husband had died. She thought she was just visiting us...not living here. She took a huge downturn after his death. Sad.....
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #27
140. I'm sorry
:hug:
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. people who had doubts
were only trying to protect the honor of all vets by making sure that no one is allowed to cover themselves if phony glory, a practice as old as war.
it is not necessary, or fair, to smear those who only try to verify the truth. may lies circulate on the internet. it can be hard to be sure of the truth. this community is worthless if truth seekers are smeared along with liars. we must try to respect even those with whom we disagree. hard as it may be at such an emotional time.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Which is why underhanded smear campaigns work
The Jackals know how to work their campaigns spreading just enough lies to get legitimate people concerned.

CUers mercilessly hounded Monkeyman during his wife's death and now they are trying to undermine Monkeyman's memory.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. ya, thanks for understanding.
i am not a cu'er. in fact, i have been the subject of death threats, etc, there. my doubts had nothing to do with cu. or kos, for that matter. they had only to do with my personal experiences with him. they started several months ago. i hope they were completely unfounded. but there was nothing malicious about them. nothing.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. It's a hobby with this sink scum.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
50. sfexpat-
Please see my post above. I really think that is an unfair characterization.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. I was thinking back to the people who did their best to discredit Andy.
That is where I was coming from.

And having gone through one of these upheavals at great cost, I have to wonder why the man's real contribution is being knocked.

Well, more shall be revealed. All I know is, MonkeyMan brought so many situations to my attention that I never would have spotted on my own. I don't know many imposters that would have taken the trouble. He got me off my butt and working for vets. And for that, I will always be grateful to him.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. Thank you for responding.
And I have said all along that I do appreciate the focus that he brought to Veterans issues.

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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #57
73. Exactly the same
I do not see the purpose of all these posters. First saying his wife didn't exist. Then saying he doesn't exist. Then saying he is not a vet. All just to cause ill will. Evil. Just the same as the situation with Andy.

In my mind Monkeyman was an activist on veteran's issues who really loved his wife and he wrote interesting posts. May he rest in peace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #25
132. Indeed
it is.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. so, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, no matter what?
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 03:54 PM by mopinko
that is a sad commentary, as far as i am concerned. i do not argue that smear campaigns are not ugly, and often based on nothing. but my opinion had nothing to do with them. it had to do with direct interactions with him that made me go hmmmmm. sad that folks are only interested in the truth, whatever that might be in this case, if is comports with their opinion.
but i repeat, honest decent people here have genuine questions, and genuinely seek the truth. there are few things lower than a phony vet. imho, those that seek to know the truth here are braving quite a bit. if people are being assholes, they deserve to be called out. but respectful dissent and questioning ought to be allowed. shit, in a perfect world, it would be honored.
rip either way, dale peters.

edited to say that i do not doubt that dale peters has passed. i just have some small doubts, from my interaction with him, that he was everything that he said he was. if that is some kind of heinous smear, i have to wonder about people's dedication to the truth here.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
81. That's all I was looking for was the truth
I just wanted to know if he was a veteran or not. Veterans understand that
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. How Terribly Sad
My eyes are welling up with tears. I didn't know Monkeyman very well but when I saw he had written something I always read it. His wife suffered and he suffered with her and it's disheartening to read that people would question him. I am very sorry he had to be put through that. I don't need to verify anything. Monkeyman's family and friends are in my prayers.
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
18. So sad reading this thread. I had no idea Monkeyman was
facing all of these trials and so soon after his beloved wife passed away. It is reminiscent of Andy IMO but there again I only knew a minor portion of his story until after his death. He was also hounded! What evil people. Hope they're happy now. Monkeyman is with his wife in Spirit.

Ten Hut RIP dear Monkeyman!
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firefox_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
21. Never heard of Monkeyman. Sorry, I feel like such a noob!
Sigh.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
22. People who do stuff like this are sub-human scum
Rest in Peace Monkeyman. You are now united with your wife and out of their reach.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #22
131. I guess I'm sub-human scum, then
So, because I'm 99% sure this guy was a fraud, and have my doubts that the poster called Monkeyman died, I'm sub-human scum and a liar. Whatever. I am not known as a poster who is either on DU.

There was no record of his death when I and several other posters called the funeral home. One is a poster I know very well and trust, the other I don't know, but there has been zero evidence that they are moles or trolls. And, I'm certainly not, as you all know.

Let's say he did die, okay? If so, then I hope his family heals as soon as they can, because losing a family member is a horrible thing. But, that does NOT excuse DUers from attacking other DUers who have had their doubts about this guy for months, doubts based on very compelling evidence. Discounting Kos, etc. and demanding a DD212 from DUers is nuts. This thread and the other thread linked in here are ridiculous -- we have a right to our doubts and opinions of those doubts as much as anyone on this thread has a right to their opinion of Monkeyman. People have been very bullying toward those of us who consider Dale Petters, Monkeyman, the Major, and the obvious and various sockpuppets a fraud.

Attack away -- I'm not answering any nasty posts. I refuse to be called a liar and scum, because I'm not.
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #131
139. I am automatically wary of any deaths reported on the net
I've seen to many fake "deaths" to just accept a post as gospel. I've also learned to trust my gut when something doesn't seem on the up and up.

I don't know Monkeyman.

If he is a dead then I would hope his family can find comfort and he is at peace. If he was truly a VN combat Vet then I hope his brothers in arms gave him proper tribute at his funeral.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #139
141. That's been my experiences as well
I've known too many people -- including myself -- who have been misguided before.

As for the rest of your post: my thoughts exactly.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #139
155. Any doubts you have can be laid to rest by contacting:
Modell Funeral Home
7710 South Cass Avenue
Darien, IL 60559
(630) 852-3595

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #155
159. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #155
163. It didn't alleviate my doubts, just confirmed them
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Marrah_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #155
177. A number of folks have already done that, so it's all good
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #131
151. Please take it here:
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #131
173. I think Vickitulsa, post 134 said it more eloquently than I'd have ever been able to:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I remember how Andy Stephenson was swift-boated and I was reading Atman's post before I replied to the OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Did Monkeyman ask DUers for money? What horrific things did he do to commit "fraud"? Any REAL evidence for it? Why do people feel the need to haunt him beyond his death? What is to gain for it?

My subject line was directed toward those who engage in swift-boat tactics.

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. how telling is it that Monkeyman elicited this kind of
reaction in those who seek to destroy rather than build up-

Monkeyman lives on- and will always live in the hearts of those he touched, awakened, and motivated.

I'm sorry Sapphire Blue that it became necessiary for you to post this- but thankful that you did.

May we all use our energy to enrich the world, and all who inhabit it.

Peace to you Monkeyman- and too us all.

blu

( passionate admirer,follower, and sister in this journey towards a better future)
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
26. Kick for our friend.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Madspirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. k&r...n/t
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Whoever Mm was, he posted a lot of good stuff here. Modell just said yes
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 01:06 PM by uppityperson
Those with questions or concerns are not all nasty lying people, but just don't want to see the generous loving people here or elsewhere get hurt. Whomever Mm was, whoever Dale Peters was, he posted good stuff and that over rides everything else.

Edited to add, just got off the phone with funeral home, he said yes. (Bet Modell is getting lots of calls.)

I really hate mistrusting someone, someone's intentions. Monkeyman posted good stuff here and I will miss him.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Thank you for posting that confirmation.
:hug:

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. You are welcome. If anyone doubts if I am real
intheflow stayed at my house. If anyone doubts if intheflow is real...

I apologized to the deep voiced solemn man at the funeral home, he said he has gotten calls and will probably get more. Thank you for posting this, but I would not go so far as to say everyone saying they couldn't find info isn't telling truth. Sometimes people's deaths don't get into the paper, don't get obits written. I just found this out with a close friend/ex who died and no one submitted obit. I wrote one and submitted it to papers where friend had lived. We are used to using the internets for information, but sometimes stuff gets missed being on the internets.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. No doubting that you or intheflow are real from me.
You are correct; obitituaries are not always submitted/available... and as great as the internets are, not every bit of info in the world can be found on said internets.

However, whoever states that they personally called the Modell Funeral Home, and the Modell Funeral Home has no info, is not being truthful.



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JitterbugPerfume Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. the only truth I need to know about Monkeyman
is that he was a kind and loving soul who made DU a better place by being here
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. "We don't see people as they are ...
... we see people as we are."

There's a lot of wisdom in that aphorism.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. That, my friend, is the most important truth!
:hug:

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
58. Yes indeed. In this case,
"that is all we know and all we need to know."

As a Vietnam vet myself, I have trouble conceiving why anyone would aspire to that status. That said, I always assumed Mm was as he represented himself to be. If he was not, that is sad evidence of a wounded soul, but not very important in the general scheme of things. Mm's posts were always filled with passion and compassion. Whether they were written by someone who was a vet, or who merely empathized with vets, they themselves were in the final measure legitimate, regardless of details of authorship.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. I can understand how SOME have a problem trusting anonymous forums
over something so serious as death. I lost a brother when Monkeyman died - not the first and not the last, but I never questioned if he was a real person who really died.

If someone needs verification of someone else's death, then I think SB just gave you all a way to find out (pretty morbid, but go for it).

I could tell he really changed after his wife died, his posts reflected it.

To all the 'others' out there that live to 'prove' his death a lie, GET A FUCKING LIFE.

His is gone, live yours while you can.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
40. Wouldn't the date be May 23, a Wednesday? MM's passing was noted
on Kos in a Saturday May 26 post by Ilona Meagher. http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/5/19/05445/9137/8...
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yes, I've got the wrong date in the OP! Thank you for the correction.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. I remember they did the same thing when his wife died
There were several posts claiming his wife's death was a hoax, until her obituary showed up in the Chicago Tribune. They were wrong about his wife, but now they are claiming he is faking his own death. It is really quite sick.
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SeattleGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Those kinds of people have venom running through their veins,
rather than blood. I can't imagine living my life feeling hatred 24/7.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Oy.
Please read my post above and tell me if you really think I have hatred running through my veins.

I love DU. I love the Democratic party. I do not care for phony veterans. It's really that simple. I appreciate the work that Dale did to bring attention to veterans causes, but I do not appreciate his tall tales of being a Vietnam veteran.

If anyone has evidence that Dale was a Vietnam veteran, than I would be more than happy to eat crow. But, the fact is that every single shred of evidence says that Dale was not a veteran.

I know that will be hurtful to those that believed him and I am truly sorry for that.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
48. Sapphire - For the record
I in no way intended to smear Monkeyman when I stated in another thread that I was unsuccessful getting any information from Modell Funeral Home on June 1. I was only saying that I was disappointed that I could not get the right information so I could go in person and pay my respects. BTW, I also stated I saw something on DU on June 1 but it may have been another site. I was out of town, had a somewhat busy and very stressful day that required difficult life and death decisions on my part, had an hour or so between appointments and saw the information on the web while surfing to try and clear my mind as a matter of mental survival. In the midst of this personal crisis I thought, being in the area, it would be a nice gesture to pay my respects to someone I respected online that passed on.

I am glad others have been successful getting info from Modell, if not a little late - though it seems they (Modell) still can't get straight whether Monkeyman died on May 23 or May 27. Not that it matters.

AFTER I posted, several people contacted me with information about doubts regarding Monkeyman and I freely admit that the information given me, coupled with the previous frustration in Chicago caused me to form my own momentary doubts. Though that has been removed as it's more than obvious at this point it was the funeral home that couldn't get it's information straight.






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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. There have been more than a few expressions of doubt...
... as you apparently found out from the PMs you received. Your comments in that other post may have compounded the doubts expressed by others.

Modell Funeral Home can & will verify Dale Peters' death; anyone who states otherwise is providing incorrect information. My intention w/this thread is to set the record straight.

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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
51. Thanks SB for Monkeyman and all who loved him

With dialup, i had a tough time getting on the longer threads but i wanted to just say his death is a loss to our community as well as to the world.

RIP Monkeyman

You will be missed around here.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
55. Wow.
I don't understand what compels people to dig into the personal lives of regular people on the internet. It's that kind of stalking that makes people conceal their identities in the first place. While I don't doubt that some people lie, I don't see how anyone could demand that others do anything. It's just not right.

RIP Monkeyman.
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Gelliebeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
64. Asking questions
given the previous threads on Kos and DU about monkeyman is not a smear.
Aren't we about the truth over here?
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. ...
Modell Funeral Home
7710 South Cass Avenue
Darien, IL 60559
(630) 852-3595

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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. Why do you keep posting the phone number for the funeral home?
At what point did anyone in this thread question whether he has passed? Nobody has. Everybody has been very respectful of his passing.

Why don't you follow-up on his veteran status? The title of your thread is "The TRUTH about Monkeyman"? Yet, all you seem to want to do is refuse to even look at the possibility that the truth might just be that he was not a Veteran.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #70
76. I have no interest in any further contact w/you. That, sir, is the truth.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. Well then show us the proof.
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 06:04 PM by Rex
If you know something, then let us here on DU know. What do you know about Monkeyman? Or will you just tell us to look at the possibility? Do you have a VA contact that you have personally talked to, to verify anything?

Out with it or start explaining.

EDIT - nothing? Still waiting.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. Just go to the links provided throughout this thread.
I've been trying to share with you what I know throughout this thread.

Yes, his military records have been obtained by the POW Network. If you question them or their credibility, then I encourage you to contact them directly and speak with them for yourself.

Read the Daily Kos threads if you'd like. Within them you will find contact information for various veterans, political, and military groups who came forward and told of their encounters with Dale. And they provided their contact information.

I'm just passing along links my friend. I'm not trying to disrupt. I'm just offering more information for those that are interested.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #78
86. Here is the link where he was finally exposed at usmilnet:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. You've got to be kidding me. This is your proof?
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 06:41 PM by Rex
Maybe you didn't come here trying to stir the pot - but here you are now, so please tell me you have something more concrete than an anonymous forum posting.

EDIT - okay while you are digging, let me help you out some. For it to be credible, you need to supply an original source for anyone to believe it to be true.

Posting the number for a funeral home in which someone died in is an original source. Do you have one? A VA contact? A verifiable account from someone who knew him? Have you talked to his neighbors? Did he have any pets?

Better yet, what do you know? Tell us.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #87
93. Rex, myself and others have posted links to all of that information.
Yes, they have VA contacts. All you have to do is read those links, take down the contact info and contact anybody that you'd like that came forward in multiple threads on multiple websites to talk about their interaction with Dale - both in person and online - including the very veterans organizations that he claimed to be a part of.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. Well if he doesn't have a DD214 then someone can prove that in a second.
If you have a huge pool of resources then use them to prove it. That's all I'm asking, since you came here with no intention of causing any problems.

Otherwise I am going back to the Paris Hilton Paradigmfest.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Need to be vet or next of kin, though can find info if send in a form
http://www.archives.gov/veterans/evetrecs/index.html
Request Copies of Military Personnel Records

Welcome to our online military personnel records request system.

Use our system to create a customized order form to request information from your, or your relative's, military personnel records. You may use this system if you are:

* A military veteran, or
* Next of kin of a deceased, former member of the military
o The next of kin can be any of the following: surviving spouse that has not remarried, father, mother, son, daughter, sister, or brother.



http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-recor...
1. How to Obtain Standard Form 180 (SF-180),
Request Pertaining to Military Records

There are several ways to obtain an SF-180. You can:

1. Download and print a copy of the SF-180 in PDF format.
* You need access to a printer and the Adobe Acrobat Reader software (see link at the bottom of the page). The form is a total of 3 pages.
* The SF-180 is formatted for letter size paper (8.5" x 11"). If your printer can not accommodate this, select "shrink to fit" when the Adobe Acrobat Reader "Print" dialog box appears.
* This is also a fillable version of the SF-180. It will allow you to type the needed information into the form using your keyboard. You will still need to print, sign and mail the form. Otherwise, it works the same as stated above.

PDF Standard Form 180
2.

Contact Us to order the form through the mail.
3.

Write to The National Personnel Records Center
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, Missouri 63132

You may also be able to obtain the SF-180:
4.

From Federal Information Centers
5.

From local Veterans Administration offices
6.

From veterans service organizations

The SF 180 may be photocopied as needed. Please submit a separate SF 180 for each individual whose records are being requested.

2. Write a Letter to Request Records

If you are not able to obtain SF-180, you may still submit a request for military records. Requests must contain enough information to identify the record among the more than 70 million on file at NPRC (MPR). Certain basic information is needed to locate military service records. This information includes:

* The veteran's complete name used while in service
* Service number or social security number
* Branch of service
* Dates of service
* Date and place of birth may also be helpful, especially if the service number is not known
* If the request pertains to a record that may have been involved in the 1973 fire, also include:
o Place of discharge
o Last unit of assignment
o Place of entry into the service, if known.
* While this information is not required, it is extremely helpful to NPRC staff in understanding and fulfilling your request:
o The purpose or reason for your request, such as applying for veterans benefits, preparing to retire, or researching your personal military history.
o Any deadlines related to your request. We will do our best to meet any priorities. For example, you may be applying for a VA-guaranteed Home Loan and need to provide proof of military service by a specific date.
o Any other specific information, documents or records you require from your Official Military Personnel File (OMPF) besides your Report of Separation (DD Form 214).

Please submit a separate request (either SF 180 or letter) for each individual whose records are being requested.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #98
104. Please take it here:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #104
106. I saw, thank you. posted here before you started that.
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 07:26 PM by uppityperson
off to add links there. Monkeyman was a good poster, a caring person. I will miss him.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. You're welcome.
:hi: I look forward to seeing you under better circumstances, on another thread (on another subject) in the future.

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. You too.
It's confusing, emotional, all of that. Peace to you and thanks.
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #94
101. Hey, why can't you call any of these sources?
Feel free to request his records from the archives in St. Louis. Anybody can do it. I've provided links to people who did just that. If you don't believe them, feel free to get the records yourself. Takes a couple of bucks and a few weeks time. If that is the only way you will be satisfied - to have them in your hands yourself - then I encourage you to do so.

I believe the many sources listed above. You can read the links and make your own decisions.

Now, I am going to exit this thread for real and enjoy the rest of my Sunday evening. I've got to get ready to see what happens to Tony and family.

Peace out Rex.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. Please take it here:
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. See ya.
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #101
137. Did you ever confront Monkeyman with this while he was still alive?
I would be grateful if you would furnish a link to where you did that so I can see what he had to say in his defense.

Lasher
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #137
156. ?
I wonder if you'll get a response? What does it say about people who have nothing better to do than to attack MM's memory?

I posted another thread specifically for the posters obsessed w/Monkeyman's military service to address their 'concerns', to direct those types of 'concerns' away from this thread. I haven't read through the responses, as I've seen enough of their 'concerned' posts right here in this thread. I find it interesting, though, that the other thread doesn't seem to be very active, considering all the 'proof' that they have... why, you'd think it would have more than a couple of hundred replies by now, what w/all their 'proof'...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #156
160. I've done my homework.
Do yours.

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #93
97. Please see posts 99, 101, and 105.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #86
92. Scout1071 - I believe you that Dale Peters never served in the military,
and I believe he could have posted a picture of someone he said was his son with Bush when he did not have a son in the military. I believe he could have lied about a lot of things.

He seemed to me to me desperately lonely. His claims did not hurt people as much as his efforts to bring attention to veterans' issues helped people.

I know that members of the military might feel pained that he claimed to be a veteran when he was not, but isn't what he did to bring attention to veterans' issues enough to assuage that pain?

I believe you.

I wish you'd just adopt him as an "honorary veteran" at this point and let it go. There are lots of people in the world who are hurting for lots of different reasons and sometimes it is tremendously compassionate to let them be. The old, old lady in the nursing home who shows you Ben Affleck's picture and insists that he is her son and will be coming to get her soon to go to lunch doesn't need to be corrected - you just tell her how handsome her son is - right?

I know that serving in the military is different and, still, if you are tough enough to have made it through that (and remained a card-carrying progressive) -- you might see your way through to letting Monkeyman be an "honorary veteran"...

Just a thought. Just my opinion.

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Dystopian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #92
109. Thank you....
This has been a long and sad thread...
Bittersweet....a very nice suggestion....
What a beautiful & heartfelt way to end it...for me.
"honorary veteran"
peace~
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #92
136. Oops, replied to wrong person.
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 08:37 AM by Lasher
Sorry.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #92
144. I have real vets in my family
Old men who still have mental in their bodies, and a young BIL who can barely walk because of an injury. None of them appreciate people who claimed to have been in combat and weren't -- their own pain and memories haunt them all every day. And yes, IO do know they don't like combat frauds -- I've heard them all speak of it before.

It's hard for those of us who know such men and women to adopt a fraud as an "honorary veteran." We know too well what the real vets live with every day.

I was going to stay out of the rest of the Monkeyman threads, but seeing questioning DUers attacked (I am NOT talking about you attacking people, I swear) and called RWers and scum and liars has compelled me to post in this thread.

DUers have shown they don't admire combat vet frauds, so it's puzzling to me that it's not only okay in this cause to embrace them, but also okay to vilify those who doubt them. Strange place sometimes.

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #144
152. Please take it here:
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #152
161. I can post here if I want, SB -- I'm answering someone else's post
THEY can take it there.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #144
169. I have to agree with you
I've been following this thread since Sunday.

To gravely misrepresent oneself is delusional at best and fraudulent at worst. Claiming to be a veteran when in fact one is not comes closer to being the latter rather than the former, at least to me.

Some life circumstances just cannot merit the "honorary" title -- and combat veteran is one of them. Call him a veteran's advocate -- don't have a problem with that, plus that may be a description that comes a little bit closer to the truth. But if someone tries to pass himself off as one who took part in battles along with those who may have come back maimed or worse, well...there should be a HUGE problem with that, and those who care should really want to get to the bottom of this, good or bad, and not make it personal.

This is one of the sadder threads I've seen on DU in awhile.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
110. Do you have some kind of truth to report?
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. Yes; the truth about Monkeyman/Dale is that he was a loving person; we were fortunate to be...
... a part of his life.

That is my truth about Monkeyman.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. And mine, too. We were very lucky.
:hug:
:grouphug:

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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. ..
:hug:

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixed mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

--WS
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. "an ever-fixed mark That looks on tempests and is never shaken"
Never.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #117
125. Never.
:hug:
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #111
147. I know that, SB
I was pissedly replying to someone who keeps chanting, "Doesn't truth matter on DU?", yet has no facts to report. The irrationality of that argument is beyond me. I have been taught to argue. I know logic. I do not care to do it, but it just makes me want to get some of these yahoos in a room where we can have a face to face discussion and I can point out the error of their ways.

No one is even denying that the man served in the military; there seems to only be a question as to whether he saw combat. Now, I understand why any person would want to make sure that no impostor grabs a label to which the original person may truly lay claim. For that reason, I can see why some vets would be concerned over someone who may be posing as a vet. However, there are degrees, and I believe the key issue regarding impostors is when the impostor gains from the lie.

In Monkeyman's case, I do not believe there is even a hint of a possibility of material gain from the alleged untruth - and the alleged untruth is by no means proven. Plus, no matter who he was, he was a great advocate for veteran's issues (could someone explain to me how a guy who was in the military at all can be called "not a vet"?) So it seems we have a bunch of people who are willing to cast aspersions on a well-loved person's character, in a fairly trivial case of alleged lying, right after that person died.

I am no end of pissed, in other words. The people calling MM a liar are claiming to be trying to defend DU's honor, essentially, while they are actually making DU a cheap, shallow, and illogical place. I am embarrassed.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #147
153. "The people calling MM a liar are claiming to be trying to defend DU's honor, essentially, while...
... they are actually making DU a cheap, shallow, and illogical place. I am embarrassed."

Indeed, I am embarassed, too... and disgusted, and pissed. They attacked him while he was alive, they are attacking him now that he's dead. In defense of DU's honor? In defense of the truth? What do they want, a piece of his corpse? It is sick. It is what goes on @ the 'other' site'... but even the 'other' site removed those disgusting posts.


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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #153
158. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #158
165. How do you know that "The original diarist deleted it himself"?
Are you 'in the know' over there?

Yes, I have posted threads about Monkeyman. I have not attacked him in my threads; you have. You seem obsessed w/attacking him. You have posted numerous replies in this thread that have nothing to do w/the OP. I gave you a thread where you can post your 'concerns' regarding his military service; have you posted there? I ask because I am not taking part in that thread; I posted it because I was hoping that you and the others would take your 'concerns' there, rather that continue posting them here.

I don't hate you, but I certainly don't care at all for your posts regarding Monkeyman. I never said that Monkeyman was everything that he said he was; I said that he was a loving person. Whether he embellished on his military service is not for me to say. If he did, did he harm you by doing so? If he didn't, are you not harming his memory? What exactly are you accomplishing by going after a dead man?

It says a lot about Monkeyman that so many DUers cared about him, doesn't it?

You're imagining things; I did not call you illogical.

You say that my attitude is so "reminiscent of Republican attitudes that" you're "really surprised" I'm not "a Bush supporter". Wheeeeee! Scout, are you really that desperate? :rofl:

----------- ------- ------: ---- ---- ---- - ----- -- ----- --- --- ---- -----. - ---- -- ---- -- --.

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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #165
170. You don't get to decide how people respond when you start a thread.
I haven't said anything that wasn't true and that was offensive...which is why all of my posts related to this still stand.

I have also shown you respect throughout this process - whether you deserved it or not. I'm sorry to say that you have not done the same for me.

And his lies did harm people. Did you know that he promised the IL Democratic party that he would bring "busloads of vets" to rallies that they were organizing? How do you think they felt when he didn't show up?

Do you think that it was OK for him to tell people that he had an amputee son at Walter Reed? Only to have their very thoughtful packages sent back "recipient unknown"? I'm sorry, but that is hurtful. And then he continued to repeatedly lie after that. It wasn't until the VA and Walter Reed were contacted directly by those still in the military, a LT Colonel and several army paratroopers (whom Dale claimed his son was with), that the truth was told. Don't think those people were hurt by Dale's lies?

Do you think that the women he harrassed at the Veterans organizations were hurt? They kicked him out of the group and asked him not to contact them again. Think they were hurt by his lies?

It was not all just harmless Internet lies. Want to see a pic that Monkeyman submitted of himself at a party last year? Know any other Vietnam Vets that look this young?

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies1080.htm

So, no. I will not honor him as an "honorary veteran". To do so is a gave insult to the real men and women who have risked their lives and futures for us. No mam. I will not ever say that Monkeyman is even remotely close to being as heroic as these people. And if you think that spending your days and nights typing away on the Internet is even remotely close to the sacrifice that they make, then I really believe you should be embarrassed.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #153
176. Deleted...
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 01:37 PM by MrsGrumpy
Just. Not. Worth. It.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
116. This needs to be said by me at this time
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 11:08 PM by shadowknows69
Because it is something that has eaten at me and I've come to peace with. I just PMed Madspirit something to this effect about MM a while ago. When some of the supposed "evidence" against Dale's bonafides was brought to light it was pretty compelling.

I made one simple comment to the effect of "things that make you go Hmm?" no other judgement than that. MM wnet away for a while after that and the next post I saw from him was basically him producing evidence of his ID and his wife's death and telling the skeptics here to go fuck themselves. He went away for a spell again and I still thought hard on it. Not totally convinced of Dale's various claims but reluctant to call him out on them. I have in the past been quite critical of similar things like the Jason Leopold thing and a few other things but when MM started posting again in earnest I decided that it didn't even matter if he was who he said he was. DU needed Monkeyman. We need someone to step up in his place. Madspirit got a reponse from me about this related to a discussion about an episode of a TV series but the parallels are stunning actually. In this TV show a person considered to be a "hero" is revealed to be a fraud. Still in the end after being enlightened someone actually acrifices his life to save this "hero". In the end he can't understand why but realizes that what he represented was infinitely more important than what he actually was. That's how I feel about Dale/MM. True or not he fired us up. Kept us focused and our eyes on the prize. He wept with us an cheered with us and was genuinely our friend no matter what about him was genuine. I still make no judgement on this; I am just thankful for knowing him through here and reading his words. Good Journey Monkeyman/Dale/Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
S
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. I hope you do understand some of us that were skeptical
but as I said sfx I realized that MM's worth to DU was bigger than all that anyway. For the record, and this is sincere, I believe everything he said.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. His contribution was much bigger than the specs.
I agree, shadow. :hug:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Well put. We lost a good guy.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #120
122. I can't even count all the things that Monkey Man brought to my awareness
that I'd never have known without his posts. And how patient he was with my ignorance.

I can't believe he's gone.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #122
127. Me neither
I'm stunned

My tribute to him
http://youtube.com/watch?v=la3nA_WnE6g
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #127
128. Thank you, lovuian.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #116
146. Well said.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
129. I spent the night reading through the links
provided here. I find it really sad that he was judged so harshly by so many here and at Kos.

I think like everyone who posts here,
they want to be heard, that their opinion counts whether you agree or disagree, a need to be a part of, a kindred spirit who see this country and it's people heading for a total collapse, and a desire to help.

It sounds like there was some hurt feelings.

I am glad he felt like he made some friends here, because he sounded like he was in a lot of pain. I am sorry that with his death there is still so much turmoil over his authenticity. Let the man rest in peace.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
133. This is an interesting
thread. What a contrast it shows in human nature. Thank you, Sapphire Blue.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #133
157. It certainly does provide some insight.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
134. I wish those who question the authenticity of others would realize
that when they do this, even if they are proven wrong and the person they cast doubt on is proven authentic in every way in the end, those questions and doubts they hurled his or her way have harmed their target -- and that harm cannot be undone.

No apologies or retractions or corrections can make up for the harm done. No mea culpas can undo the damage they have done with their accusations.

And even if the accusations are not baseless, the harm done so often by these "phony vet exposers" who seem to relish their self-assigned "jobs" can be far worse than any harm done by someone claiming to be a vet when he's not.

The seeds of mistrust and doubt that such self-styled "authenticators" sow in any group where veterans may be found have a far more negative impact on the group as a whole than the people they seek to expose and defame.

I have always viewed it this way: If I'm being fooled by someone who says he's a veteran when he's not, it's not on me any real damage or blame or shame will ultimately fall, right? I'm just believing someone I have no reason NOT to believe -- it's that simple. I treat others the way I want to be treated, as best I can.

Now if anyone wants to know my background on this issue and how I came to the conclusion I just expressed, you can read the following (if you have the time!).

~~~~~~~~~~

Because I lost my daughter, my only child born in January 1969, due in large part to the Vietnam War, her biological father being a Nam vet, and because I have always supported the Nam vets who were treated so horribly and unfairly back then and for decades after by so many, I sought out Vietnam vets online when I got my first home computer in 1997.

I found them in abundance on the Web/Internet, after 30 years of their being so (understandably) silent.

I spent the next several years in groups where not only Vietnam veterans and their friends, families and supporters gathered, but also a lot of vets from other wars, other eras and some active duty folks as well. My own dad was a WWII combat veteran, wounded in Italy four days before the war was over in that country.

I have not posted until now on any of the threads about Monkeyman's death because I was so distraught at losing him that I just couldn't even talk about it at all.

I read through the threads where others expressed their shock and loss and grief, though, and that helped me some. I'm still feeling devastated to know he is gone and won't be posting at DU anymore.

What I'd like to say now, after reading posts by those who claim Monkeyman was not a vet is this:

While I spent those years in veterans groups online, getting to know a great many of them quite well and in fact meeting quite a few personally and face to face -- even dancing with some at the annual Delta to DMZ Dance in DC, Veterans Day in 1999 -- I learned just how destructive and damaging are the questioners of some people's claims to be veterans.

Just one good example: One Nam vet I grew close to, I drove three days from OK to VA to spend a week with and share some great times. Sadly, I discovered for myself just how tragic his life had been due to his combat experiences. He had been a Navy Corpsman, had three Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star (for his heroic rescue of a Marine under fire), and I read some newspaper clippings his mom had saved that described what he did in the war.

Ken was 100% service-related disabled and had PTSD so bad his hypervigilance destroyed his ability to live any sort of normal life. He had participated in group therapy with other vets in a VA program, but even though he was active online he had never joined any veterans groups there. Perhaps it was because he just felt very vulnerable with his level of hypervigilance, or maybe he was just one of the huge number of Nam vets who remained silent about their service for many years.

But after Ken and I became so close and he trusted me as a friend and supporter of vets in general as well as someone he felt he could trust personally, he agreed to visit a vets' group online that I'd been in for some time.

I thought this was a great group of folks, had spent a couple of years hanging out with them a LOT. Of course, people come and go in those groups, and you never know when a relative newcomer might suddenly do something strange or even start attacking others. Still, we'd been through such things before and always managed to handle it okay.

At the time when my friend Ken dropped in to visit (this was a live chat group on the old Firetalk program), there was a relatively new guy there who had talked about his wish to expose "phonies," or those claiming to be veterans who were not.

None in our group knew the accuser IRL, and several of our regulars had strongly discouraged him from challenging members of our group or any new visitors. As a result, he had been quiet for some time about it.

But on the very day when my friend Ken stopped in, the very first response he got, other than mine welcoming him and introducing him to the others as my friend and a vet, this "accuser" challenged Ken by firing questions at him about the war.

I was shocked and stunned and immediately tried to intervene, even telling Ken right there in front of everyone that he should not respond to this ... JERK. I apologized to my friend and suggested he might want to just leave -- he didn't have to put up with this crap, is what I told him.

Others in the group also immediately confronted this self-styled "phony-exposer" and demanded he stop, but he kept hammering at Ken anyway.

Because of Ken's PTSD, he had trouble with fast responses to anything, let alone attacks about his veteran status that he never imagined could occur. His first attempts to reply to the attacker were sincere but hesitant, and that just emboldened the jerk accuser further, claiming Ken wasn't coming up with the "right" answers fast enough!

Long story short, Ken left and never came back to that group or visited any other vets group online. He lost in one fateful day and thanks to one asshole accuser all access to what could have been a lot of support from his brothers and sisters and those who love and care for them.

Then, because of this incident, I and others in the group began investigating the man who had attacked and accused Ken of being a phony. Turned out after weeks of effort to determine the truth that HE WAS A PHONY, and not a Vietnam vet or a vet at all!

So here is this guy, himself a phony claiming to be a Nam vet, who is going around to every vets' group he can find online, accusing others of being phonies!

(Please excuse my strong emphases, but that's just how appalling this whole business was!)

THIS is the very sort of thing that enrages me about all those who seem to make it their life's mission to challenge others and question their veterans' status.

At least one person even wrote an entire book about the "phony vet phenomenon," called, IIRC, Stolen Valor. And in that book, it was later proven, the author in his efforts to expose some "phonies," actually falsely accused at least three authentic veterans!

This was made public online in our groups, and the author was called on it, and he had to admit he had "made a mistake" on those vets he'd wronged. But think of how many people read his book and believed what he wrote, including his lies about the real vets he said were phonies!

My whole point is this:

I have seen and known a few who were in fact "phony vets," and have seen what they do and how they do it. As someone in this thread mentioned a couple of times, it's a ploy as old as war itself. It's a sad commentary on the lives of those who feel the need to claim to be vets when they are not, but as far as I have been able to discover, their false claims rarely harm anyone in any way -- other than themselves, one might argue.

What I have seen causing a lot of pain and heartache among my veteran friends is how much damage can be done to them when others accuse them of being phonies.

It's difficult enough for these folks -- men and women vets alike, though the women have it even harder imo, and I know quite a few of them very personally -- to open up and speak out about their experiences as veterans in the first place! In particular the Vietnam vets were shamed into silence and even into hiding and seclusion by a society that inexcusably treated them abominally.

So, when finally after many years some of these wounded, shunned ones decide to talk about themselves with others they feel are their brothers and sisters (or those who support them, like me and many others), only to be falsely accused of being "phonies," the harm done to them by such accusations is unfathomable.

I just hope everyone will keep this in mind as they see the stubbornness with which SOME people seem to want to challenge anyone who claims to be a veteran -- not just Monkeyman, ANYONE.

Ask yourself who is doing more harm here? The one who behaves as a veteran and works his heart out for the benefit of veterans? Or the one who seems to think it's vitally important that no matter the damage if he's WRONG, we must scrutinize the records of everyone who says he's a vet to make sure he isn't telling any fibs about it?

Those who do this accusing may CLAIM that they are NOT "smearing" others, but what if their questions and challenges are wrong? The questioning is made public, and some will remember that and have doubts thereafter.

Even if they're not wrong, ask yourself WHY these accusers feel such a need to confront others who are doing no harm even if they ARE phonies??

And remember the case I described above -- of a guy who HIMSELF WAS A PHONY, who made a life out of going on veterans boards and groups and accusing others of being phonies!

It's a vicious game, the stalking of others who may or may not be vets but who are saying they are vets in an anonymous sort of setting like this. I say, consider who it is here who does the most harm, and decide for yourself whether you want to join in with the accusers.

Remember -- when you're wrong, you have quite possibly helped to destroy a genuine, innocent human being by forcing your questions into the forefront of any discussion about that person. And even when you may be right about someone being a "phony," that person may well be a better human being than you are, actually helping vets a LOT in his life.

In my own extensive experience with this entire issue, I will side with the ones who simply say they are vets every time, versus those who seem to be obsessed with "exposing phonies."

To those accusers, I say, "Who are YOU? And just wait until someone decides that maybe YOU are a phony and stalks and haunts your every waking moment forcing you to defend yourself even if you really are what you say you are."


End of my rant, and I'm sorry, but I'm just so fed up with this sort of thing. :(




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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #134
138. Thank you vickitulsa

...And even if the accusations are not baseless, the harm done so often by these "phony vet exposers" who seem to relish their self-assigned "jobs" can be far worse than any harm done by someone claiming to be a vet when he's not.

The seeds of mistrust and doubt that such self-styled "authenticators" sow in any group where veterans may be found have a far more negative impact on the group as a whole than the people they seek to expose and defame.

...

It's a vicious game, the stalking of others who may or may not be vets but who are saying they are vets in an anonymous sort of setting like this. I say, consider who it is here who does the most harm, and decide for yourself whether you want to join in with the accusers.

Remember -- when you're wrong, you have quite possibly helped to destroy a genuine, innocent human being by forcing your questions into the forefront of any discussion about that person. And even when you may be right about someone being a "phony," that person may well be a better human being than you are, actually helping vets a LOT in his life.





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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #134
154. Harming their target would seem to be their goal.
Edited on Mon Jun-11-07 11:36 AM by Sapphire Blue
Edited to add: Thank you for your excellent rant! :hug:

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potisok Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
135. Peace
Was a vet or was not a vet, is not important to me, there are many casualties of the Vietnam conflict who never wore a uniform or do not have a DD214. Monkey Man posted and reflected on issues that were important to veterans and me. I for one respected and miss his messages on the DU board. I shed a tear for his passing and shared how his story affected me with my wife. He had an impact on my life. May he and his family and friends find peace.
With respect. Potisok USMC 1970 to 1972
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
175. Please, if you wish to discuss Monkeyman's/Dale Peters' military service...
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #175
178. I think this thread is doing a good job of it.
:shrug: Why have a bunch of threads going?
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
179. Locking
At the request of Sapphire Blue.
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