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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:33 PM
Original message
Carville Wrote A Letter On Libby's Behalf To Judge Walton
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. And Hillary has him on her team?
He is a shill!
How much more do we need to know?
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That Was My Instant Thought
And don't forget, when Carville found out Kerry was going to contest the Ohio count Carville called Matalin at the WH and told her. She told Rez and Vice who got Blackwell on the case. Why is this man allowed near democrats, not to mention the DEan matter brought up below.

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. He's no friend of the Dems, that's for sure. n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
49. oh, the democrats are full of right wing infiltrators
look at the DLC membership for examples.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #49
89. damned straight. I only wish you would scream it
out to the public.

oh hell. you probably have. But the MSM is more interested in the shade of Paris' jail garb.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. yep
It is really sad. I have this nice Democratic neighborhood in which I live. I saw this gal from across the street yesterday after the Dem debate and she asked how I liked it. I said it sucked and they did not give the real liberals enough air time. She looked at me like I had two heads. These poor folks (and I believe she represents the Dem base) really believe the shit the M$M is selling them! Like Hil is a LIBERAL???? OMFG! I really feel sometimes it is hopeless.

:(
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. these cretins have been so sucessful because americans are really stupid
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. well, NOW we know why people tried to block making these letters public.
do you think Carville dreamed it would be common knowldedge at some point?
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. He must not care about anything but kissing up to the Bush Lovers
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Schmole.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
51. Perfect! nt
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. She knows.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. She knows.
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foo_bar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #38
82. "The Thinker"?


He might be part of the whole floaty eye pyramid thing, but I wouldn't say he's yukking it up in this shot. If anything he's shielding his face from Herbert Walker's spittle.

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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. If most dems have not figured out she is a corporate/warmongering shill by now
there isn't a lot of hope now is there?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. he supports her but is not part of her official team
... although that lore is perpetuated at DU to connect any bone-headed thing Carville does to her.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. Bet he is in on the in crowd infomation
and that is just where his wife and the thugs want him to be.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. I'm interested in facts -- not speculation by people with minds already made up
n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
77. CNN's Democratic voice from 2001-2005 was James Carville - a TRAITOR married
to a war criminal and protecting HER was more important - she helped to out Plame and smear Wilson and Carville KNEW IT.

Are Dems getting the message now? Some of these people have been working AGAINST us and protecting BushInc.

This talk by historian Douglas Brinkley occurred in April 2004:

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Whom does the biographer think his subject will pick as a running mate? Not Hillary Rodham Clinton. "There's really two different Democratic parties right now: there's the Clintons and Terry McAuliffe and the DNC and then there's the Kerry upstarts. John Kerry had one of the great advantages in life by being considered to get the nomination in December. He watched every Democrat in the country flee from him, and the Clintons really stick the knife in his back a bunch of times, so he's able to really see who was loyal to him and who wasn't. That's a very useful thing in life."



http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg |

I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.
On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.
>>>>>>


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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Yes! Carville is the devil and should not be allowed
to represent our party in any way.

He is a Wolf in sheeps clothing and Hillary keeps buying him clothes.
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #1
107. Carville, married to a big Bush advisor. Clintons FRIENDS with Bush. How stupid do
they think we are? How much more in our faces can this be?

Carville, pleading for Scooter. It is disgusting.

The CLINTONS are NO DIFFERENT than the BUSH crime family.
They are all Corporatists.

I will NEVER vote for her.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. So did Gen. Peter Pace. So much for the military being non-partisan! nt
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
65. General Pace should be demoted or worse for this. He's ACTIVE military.
Doesn't he have an obligation to defend and protect our TROOPS? How the hell is he doing that by supporting a member of this administration that has committed TREASON? Our military is broken. Our troops are on 3rd and 4th deployments. Libby lied to cover up the lies that placed us in the Middle East to begin with. I want Pace's head on a stake. Does this make sense to you? It certainly doesn't make sense to me.

Plame (Brewster-Jennings) had her assignment. Because of these war criminals, we don't have any "intel" on the ground over there. It's beyond OUTRAGEOUS. Pace needs to go.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #65
91. Gen. George C. Marshall NEVER voted until 1952. Pace should apologize to that marine in trouble...
for wearing his uniform to a protest.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yep. If he wasn't Dead To You when he slammed Dean in Nov. 2006
Carville should be Dead To You now.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. I *knew* it. I just knew it. With friends like him...n/t
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. What's The Saying?
You're known by the company you keep?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Birds of a feather...
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Direct link:
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. He wouldn't get down the pants of this if he hadn't,
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. Ay yi yi.
:puke:
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. Who is that? James with a wig?
Further proof that:

a:the longer you live with someone, the more you look like them
b:people start to look like their pets after a while
c:you are what you eat
d: all the above
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #26
73. e. You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.
And it's just as true if you're both dogs.

Tesha
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Next to her support for the war, this might be the biggest reason to not like her.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. support for the war?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yah.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I think you're being a bit disingenuous here.
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 03:45 PM by trumad
SENATOR CLINTON: Madam President, I rise to join my colleague and friend, Senator Byrd, to announce our intention to introduce legislation which proposes that October 11, 2007 -- the five year anniversary of the original resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq -- as the expiration date for that resolution.

As Senator Byrd pointed out, the October 11, 2002, authorization to use force has run its course, and it is time to reverse the failed policies of President Bush and to end this war as soon as possible.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/3/173917/1013
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well then we disagree.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Does this sound like support?
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 03:46 PM by trumad
SENATOR CLINTON: Madam President, I rise to join my colleague and friend, Senator Byrd, to announce our intention to introduce legislation which proposes that October 11, 2007 -- the five year anniversary of the original resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq -- as the expiration date for that resolution.

As Senator Byrd pointed out, the October 11, 2002, authorization to use force has run its course, and it is time to reverse the failed policies of President Bush and to end this war as soon as possible.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, that cinches it. My apologies.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. There you go again---
you make a blanket statement that like Hillary is Joe Lieberman Jr.... I prove your wrong--- and then you put your hands over your eyes.

Hillary does not support this war.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. No, you're just making shit up that I never said.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Post 10
"Next to her support for the war, this might be the biggest reason to not like her."

Maybe somebody hacked your DU account?
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #18
57. This is after she backed the war...
...and then held her hardline stance on the war for longer than most other Democrats. She only really changed her tune when she decided to run because she realized her tremendous political blunder.

Moreover, her viewpoints are generally idiotic and reveal her for what she really is, a sell-out:

"How could they have been so poorly prepared for the aftermath of the toppling of Saddam Hussein?" the New York Democrat asked Tuesday night on CNN's "Larry King Live."

"I don't understand how they had such an unrealistic view of what was going to happen."

"Obviously, I've thought about that a lot in the months since," she said. "No, I don't regret giving the president authority because at the time it was in the context of weapons of mass destruction, grave threats to the United States, and clearly, Saddam Hussein had been a real problem for the international community for more than a decade."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

Another gem from that article:

""That's one of the reasons why I think it's important to have a president who asks a lot of questions, who is intellectually curious, who seeks out contrary points of view, who doesn't just surround himself with people who see the world the same way," she said."

What, like Mr. Carville?

More recent:

HECKLER: (Off mike.)

SEN. CLINTON: -- there are many people who wish we could do more, but let me say that if we can get a large bipartisan vote to disapprove this president's plan for escalation, that will be the first time that we will have said, "No!" to President Bush and begin to reverse his policies! (Cheers, applause.)

Now, I want to go further. I propose capping the troop levels. I want to make it very clear that we need to threaten the Iraqi government, that we're going to take money away from their troops, not our troops who still lack body armor and armored vehicles; that we're going to send a clear message -- (cheers, applause) -- that we are finished with their empty promises and with this president's blank check.

And let me add one other thing, and I want to be very clear about this. If I had been president in October of 2002, I would not have started this war. I would not -- (interrupted by cheers, applause) -- and if in Congress, if we in Congress, working as hard as we can to get the 60 votes you need to do anything in the Senate -- believe me, I understand the frustration and the outrage, you have to have 60 votes to cap troops, to limit funding, to do anything.

If we in Congress don't end this war before January 2009, as president, I will! (Cheers, applause.)

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Hillary_heckled_at_DNC_0202.html

So which is it Hillary, you wouldn't have started this war but you think its okay to give President's blank checks, and especially this President in light of all we knew about him prior to the War and even 9/11? Excuses



Hillary and Dubya discuss Iraqi Oil:sarcasm:

:nopity:
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
76. She sure has you fooled
its has taken her how long to say she wants to end the War, Why because it was too long? She never has explained why she voted for the IRW, or if it may have been a foolish vote. "We must give the President all the tools he needs" she need to explain why she is such a tool.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's because he's snakeheaded scumbag
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
20. We need to find out for sure, what Hillary's stance is on Scooter Libby. Would she pardon him?
Honestly, why should we take her answer for granted? The Iraq war and flag-burning were surprising to many of us, why should we assume we know what her answer would be?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. How surprising.
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 03:50 PM by sfexpat2000
:sarcasm:
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:55 PM
Original message
Right?
I'm looking for gonna run for president Thompson's name among the letters too.
As for Carville, now all of us who suspected it know for sure we're 'nursing a viper in our bosoms'
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
25. It's official.
Fuck that guy.

Officially.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. You said it. nt
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. OH, PLEASE STOP THIS MADNESS!
Pick Fucking sides and stay on them! I hate whores that play both sides!

It's time to write a letter to Carville and make him a persona non grata.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. He's only playing
one side. He's working for the other.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Pussy whipped.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Maybe she works for him.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Maybe they
are a team.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. The Kind Of Attention This Is Getting
brings him out of his neo-closet once and for all.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. One would hope.
Look how much it took for people to finally stop defending Lieberman as a "loyal Dem" around here.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. Most certainly.
I don't believe in the "whipped" imagery. I believe a proposal was floated, an alliance was struck, and rewards followed.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. You mean, they're part of a third party?
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. No.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Do all Republicans buy into the neo-con plan?
If not, then we can say there is a Belt-way third party, can't we? And it's composed of Conservative Republicans and Centrist Democrats?
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. Not all republicans buy into the neo-con plan.
But Carville is married to it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. There are
democrats and republicans who have some minor differences on social policy, but who share common beliefs about the role of the USA in Iraq. Are they are third party? Or are they a force that influences both the democratic and republican party, with a shared agenda?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. I think, strategically, we'd go further in neutralizing their power, if we
see them as one working unit. Don't you?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. I used to box.
I always found it was to my advantage to remember that my opponent had a left hand, and a right hand. And It was also to my advantage to get him to forget that I did, too.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. I think of it more like fighting cancer.
You know, like trying to isolate all the bad cells in one part of the body, then extract all the nasties out at one time.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #41
84. Good cop, bad cop
Just like the Democrats and Republicans.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. If it were so, Bush, Cheney and Rove never would have made it through
a second term.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Why not?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Because she would have had enough evidence to turn them all in.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Why would she?
She and he work for them. :shrug:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. I see that now. That's why you're all afraid of Hillary Clinton, isn't it?
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. I don't know who you think you are conversing with.
But you just threw up a strange strawman seemingly for no reason.

:hi:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. How is that a strawman? I'm not disagreeing with you.
Hillary is sometimes evasive with her politics, but Carville isn't. If one is to assume that they are still in partnership, then it can also be said, that Hillary's political aims are the same, if not similars to Carville's.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. The way it was written...
"That's why you're all afraid of Hillary Clinton, isn't it?" Sounds like an accusation. Perhaps I was too sensitive, I think I misjudged, so I'll just back away from my accusation.

I have trouble with the closeness of the Clintons and the Bushes through their various alliances and connections in much the same way that I have trouble with the closeness of the Bushes and the House of Saud and the Bushes and the Bin Ladens. I don't know what is going on, but I don't think it's in my best interests. Do you have similar feelings?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. I try very hard not to have the same feelings, but yes, I fear Hillary
may have a not so hidden agenda.

My hope in Hillary is the kind of hope we use to have in politicians in the pre-blog era. Where you really want to believe that gut feeling you get from the 30 second commercial soundbite. And, of course, those 30 seconds were the only thing you had to judge the person. No other information was available. In those cases, name recognition is ever important.

Reminds me of a sad little story. My mom became an American citizen in her last years of life. She also had a minor stroke about the same time. My dad and I talk politics all the time, and in the past, she was never an active participant because she didn't vote. But once she became a citizen, you could tell she wanted the whole American experience. So, we were talking politics, and it must have been soon after 2000 and I told my dad that the Democrats just seemed too spineless to mount an effective challenge against the Republicans. I couldn't think of one, I said, which could stand up and be taken seriously by the media, much less Republican voters. To which my mom, bravely shouts out, "Lieberman." I know now that my mother was fighting through some serious memory recall problems to even come up with that name. I know she spouted it out because it was probably the only name she remembered, and because she wanted to be part of the conversation, but I didn't think to stop and consider those factors when I responded. I just recoiled from the name and told her why he wasn't even a Democrat. My mom just cast her eyes down and shrank back. It's THAT kind of innocent hopefulness I have in Hillary, and I'm afraid that I am destined to be as dissappointed and crushed as my mother was.

But my mom's story does have a happy ending. Later on, she donated to the Bob Graham campaign and they sent her a nice autographed photo of his family. She was really proud of it and hung it on the refrigerator with a magnet. And she got to vote for Kerry before she died.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #71
85. I appreciate your story.
I did not come from a family that discussed politics much. In my family, there were expressions of intolerance, and many examples of tolerance. Early on, the lessons of tolerance won out, and I feel fortunate for that. But in my family was also real sociopathy. The result being that when I see the signs of sociopathy, and that sort of inhumanity, I have a very visceral reaction. The feelings are deep and intense.



Humanity must at some point come to grips with itself. With the vast imperfections of it's collective psyche.



What makes us human may also destroy us.



The worst of us has such sway over our lives.



There is no escaping what is wrong with us, when it goes so terribly wrong.

http://faculty.unlv.edu/pwerth/Mussolini+hitler.jpg

But we can hope.

I hope. I hope that we can get a little breathing room so that we can push the progressive agenda with some forward movement. I know that it may end up that Hil gets the nom. If so, I'll pull the lever for her, with the hope that some benefit will be realized. Some breathing room attained. The repuke will be much worse. But I hope.

I hope one day we will push hard enough that the living generations will have the opportunity to vote on a modern version of the Roosevelt/Wallace ticket. I hope this because I know that if things get worse, there will be no alternative. We are out of places to go. The Octopus, as it is called, is world wide. One can no longer just melt into the mountains like some Jeremiah Johnson. There is no escape. If we can't wrest power from the political sociopaths, there will be no other place to go.

I know this, but I am not ready to call the game over. So I hope one day I will have the opportunity to pull the lever in innocent hopefulness, and the result will be true progress. It's that or nothing.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Good rant.
We come from two different family backgrounds, but it seems like we're on the same page. I'll settle for innocent hopefulness over holding my nose when I pull that lever.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. I Too Have Problems
With the closeness of the Bushies & Clintons. It also concerns me that the media and the republicans seem to be pushing her forward. At the debates last night, she was center stage and given the most amount of time. Later the pundits were all saying she won, yet every poll I saw said Edwards.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
78. EXACTLY!!!!! And HIS VOICE was CNN's "Dem" voice from 2001-2005
Undermining us at every turn.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
29. I just saw that and was FLOORED!!!
Ever since he was calling for Dean's head on a platter AFTER WINNING BACK THE MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE I've thought he has gone over to the dark side with his skanky wife!
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
53. Right. Dean's incompetent but Scooter Libby is wonderful.
That tells us everything we need to know about Carville, for anyone who still had any doubts.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
32. More Letters
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #32
59. Oh, these are wonderful! All these women, including his dentist
and the airline stewardess on Air Force Two (Dick Cheney's ride) talking about what a wonderful family man poor Scooter is and was. It looks like Mrs. Libby pulled out her social calendar and begged everyone on it to save her poor husband from years in the slammer.

Too funny. I love the ones begging for lots and lots of hard time.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. Nauseating. Note to candidates: this asshole IS NOT a friendly.
All sorts of theories running through my mind as to why he didn't want KERRY elected in 2004....:tinfoilhat:
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
36. Pace and Meyers?
Did they thank him for the unnecessary deaths of our troops? :grr:

Unfrickingbelievable.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
50. Arrogance is right out there.
That lizard doesn't give a damn about how this looks. It is a big FUCK YOU right at the progressive wing of 'his party'.
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bamacrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
60. Everyone in politics today sleeps in the same bed.
More and more everyday I am reminded of how singular this country is, if thats the right word. Our party lines blur with our most prevalent candidates.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
68. That man is not our ally....
With "friends" like him, who needs Republicans?
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BadGimp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
74. The only thing I can guess is..
That Marry Matalin has perfected the art of oral massage on good ole George and he knows what he must do to be able to ....

nevermind
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
81. KO said Kissinger and Rumsferatu did as well. O'Donnell on KO
ripped into them for doing that, and was asking if they are going to do the same for any soldier found guilty of a crime in Iraq since they never would have been in Iraq if it wasn't for them.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. All The Usual Suspects
Perle, Bolton, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Kissinger, Woolsey, Fukiyama, DiGenova, Toesuck. One name I didn't see aside from Cheney & Fred Thompson was William 'let's go to war' Kristol. Another is Cliff May. Barbara 'major fundraiser' Comstock didn't gave one so far as I saw.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
86. Lord Acton wrote a letter once way back when
Edited on Tue Jun-05-07 07:50 PM by Strawman
What did he say in it again? Oh yeah...

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely."
- Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-05-07 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
93. Astounding. Left and right are tied more closely together
than we are led to believe...and not in a good way.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
94. Tucker's daddy (Richard Carlson) wrote a letter too
Edited on Wed Jun-06-07 01:10 AM by Mabus
Wonder if Tucker will mention it and the fact that his daddy was on the advisory committee for Scooter's defense fund?

Tucker Carlson's father was a longtime anchorman on local news in Los Angeles and San Diego, who later in his career served as Director of Voice of America in Europe, and then as President and CEO of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Prior to his hiring at MSNBC, Carlson wrote for the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, Policy Review, and The Weekly Standard, and came at issues "from the right" on CNN's Crossfire. He now hosts Tucker Carlson: Unfiltered on PBS.

Father: Richard W. Carlson (Los Angeles news anchorman, later VOA Director)
Mother: Patricia Caroline Swanson (stepmother, heir to the Swanson frozen-food fortune)
Brother: Buckley Carlson (Executive VP, right-wing PR firm McCarthy Communications)

http://www.nndb.com/people/765/000027684/


Excerpts from Daddy Carlson's letter:

Dear Judge Walton:
I am writing on behalf of Scooter Libby, who I have known and admired for close to twenty years.
I am a former director (general) of the Voice of America. I am also a former president & ceo of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
***
Scooter Libby's current legal situation is ironic to me. I find it impossible to reconcile the charges and conviction with my knowledge of the positive and admirable way Scooter has conducted his life, as an attorney and public servant, as a loving husband and father to his two wonderful children, and as a thoughtful and sensitive friend. I consider him a selfless man, a person of high integrity and absolute honesty.

Over the years of our professional relationship -which blossomed into a personal friendship, he has earned my deep respect. Please consider my views in your sentencing.
Sincerely
/Richard Carlson/

letter is on page 42 of the following pdf file http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pdf/libbyletters-a-d.pdf
Richard W Carlson
US Ambassador (ret.)
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #94
112. I Wrote MSNBC
about Tucker's fraudulence
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
95. WHAT THE FUCK???
:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

THATS IT! I NOW OFFICIALLY HATE THAT FUCKER!
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
96. Ladies and gentlemen- I give you CNN's favorite "Democratic Strategist".
Edited on Wed Jun-06-07 01:34 AM by Marr
What a bunch of frauds.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #96
99. Frauds indeed...but think back to the day that Jon Stewart turned their audience against them
in about two minutes, totally turned them ... and the result was their show, "Crossfire,"
was canceled.

Disgusting though,, just disgusting!

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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
97. you can't trust him even an inch.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
98. Me, you are entirely too much. Damn, what a disgrace.

Did he write one for Jeffrey Dahmer, perhaps David Berkowitz.

Maybe he's got a bunch prepared when people are so furious over the betrayal some
real trials start.


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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #98
101. Captain Cue Ball
Is behind the eight ball
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #101
109. rofl
mao
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Monk06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
100. Carville is to the Democrats as Rove is to the GOP an unelected self serving opportunist n/t
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
102. in support of a man who assisted in exposing Brewster Jennings and other assets
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
103. That battle axe of his whipped him around like a rag doll. Carville you're done!
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
104. "Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy" (Woodward)
IS THERE ANY QUESTION WHAT SIDE THIS MAN IS ON?

Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)


By M.J. Rosenberg | bio




On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

-snip

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

-snip

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #104
111. So The Great James Didn't Agree With Going After Stolen Votes
So he ran to the enemy. One must ask what he didn't agree with: dems winning or exposing the vote fraud? He's got to go. The publicans can have him.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
105. They are thick as thieves
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
106. Ah, the old Think of the Children!
Frankly, Carville, WE ARE!!!

Couldn't believe it when I heard he'd co-signed a support letter. Well, I could, but...
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
108. Well there goes the last shred of respect I had for Carville
This should finish him as a consultant as far as I'm concerned.
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npincus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 12:11 PM
Original message
American Traitor.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-06-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
110. He's married to Matlin n/t
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