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Mark Penn Is Killing Hillary Clinton Campaign

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Billysundae Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:56 AM
Original message
Mark Penn Is Killing Hillary Clinton Campaign
 
Run time: 09:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Astujv_WAy8
 
Posted on YouTube: December 14, 2007
By YouTube Member:
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Posted on DU: December 14, 2007
By DU Member: Billysundae
Views on DU: 1786
 
He's a mess.
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. what amazes me
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 07:17 AM by SoFlaJet
is it was Joe Trippi-John Edwards' guy who was disgusted the most the Rove-job being done on a fellow democrat. Disgusted is the best word for the way he acted towards Penn's tactics. I like Joe Trippi.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah, I must say, I like Trippi, too.
And Mark Penn seems to be in the wrong Party (maybe)...
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Penn is obviously more of a backroom type.
People who have read my posts here on DU know that I am not a cheerleader for the Clinton campaign.

But I think it was absolutely fair for Clinton's campaign to bring up the fact that Obama had already thought about wanting to become President while he was still a child.

The only reason they mentioned it is because Obama had been making a big deal about it in his public speeches. He was saying that he has not been planning to run for President for a long time, implying that certain other candidates (meaning Hillary) having been planning for this their whole lives. Whether it is true or not - it has NOTHING to do with whether or not Hillary should be the nominee in 2008.

I like Obama a lot. But I really hate it when he decides to highlight these irrelevant issues like who has been thinking about running for President the longest.

Then you wind up getting stuck in a pointless discussion about people's past private thoughts and the semantic difference between words like imagining, thinking, considering and planning.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. If it's irrelevant, why do you care? He was 5 years old.
What I love is how Mark Penn chuckles derisively when Joe Trippi says the objective of the Edwards campaign is to get rid of the greed in Washington.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. But Obama tried to make this an issue!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:27 AM by Apollo11
This from the New York Times, reporting on what Obama said in Harlem on November 29th:

Mr. Obama did not mention Mrs. Clinton by name, but appeared to refer to her several times. "Im not running to fulfill some long held plans," he said. "Im not running because I feel its owed to me."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/30/us/politics/30obama.h...

Why does it matter how long someone has been holding a plan?

Are new plans always better than old plans?

How can we know for sure how long Obama has been planning to run for President? :eyes:

Mark Penn should have explained the circumstances, instead of trying to say it was a joke, when it fact it was a response to a more-or-less subliminal attack launched by Obama.

The Clinton campaign press release is a rebuttal supported by facts and sources. Check it out here: http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=447...

By the way, the whole point of a press release archieve is that you do leave old press releases up on your website. No point in deleting them after 7 days.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. Big difference
Even assuming that Obama had similar "long held plans" as the Clintons, he was not in the same position the CLintons were. If the plans are true (as I think they are, but obviously I have no insider knowledge, and I may be wrong), they almost certainly impacted how the Clintons behaved in connection with the 2000 and 2004 elections. I know it is mostly speculation (though some actual information IS out here), but the thought that a less ambitious and self-centered political couple may have led to a Gore or Kerry presidency and avoided the unmitigated disaster of the last seven years gives me the chills, and puts both Clintons somewhere close to the very bottom of the democratic pack (and I am not refering to the presidential candidates). As far as I am concerned, this is in the UNFORGIVABLE category.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. self delete
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 08:33 AM by Apollo11
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. It was at that instant that I decided to throw in for Edwards
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. But being schooled in Indonesia as a 6 year old qualifies as experience in foriegn affairs.
:rofl:
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. There is a huge difference between a candidate saying,
"Some candidates have been planning to become President for decades, but I haven't.' and "Senator Obama is lying. He wrote in the first grade that he wanted to be President!"

And you know those two statements are completely different; one is an observation, naming no one, the other is a personal attack calling a specific candidate a liar.
You say that everyone knows Obama was speaking of Senator Clinton, but that is just not true. Senators Biden and Dodd have held Presidential aspirations for quite some time and Kucinich ran four years ago.

I am not an Obama supporter (at all), but there is a clear difference in what these two campaigns have been doing.
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Mark Penn
may be a political master behind the scenes, but he doesn't come off well on camera. (imo)
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Do you think that it is "fair"...
... to compare the possible political plans of adults with the daydreams of a kid? I have no idea when Obama started seriously thinking about the predidency, and I agree that it does not really matter. But to claim that his ramblings as a child are proof of anything is not only wrong, is ridiculous beyond belief.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. I agree Obama started the "planning to run for President for a long time" nonsense but
with our media pro-Obama - before they go pro-GOP - Hillary forgot to be EXTRA cautious.
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Bretttido Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I wanted to be President at that age, who cares!
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
7. Joe Trippi is out of his league.
Tweedy asked him the question about (paraphrasing) "Doesn't the infighting between the Obama and Clinton campaigns means Edwards could slip in?" He let probably 2 seconds go by before answering, allowing the other two to plow through. Two seconds of silence in TV debate is death. He looked like a deer caught in headlights.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I thought that it was the transmission delay.
:shrug:

Trippi came off okay imo.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
8. BWAHAHAHA! "She's been running a year-long positive campaign"....
Oh, right. POSITIVELY in the pockets of the corporations!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Mark Penn is a pig.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Aptly put :-) n/t
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Billysundae Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Obama, Hillary and our future....
I like Obama a lot and think he'd make a great President.
However, We really need to win next year; we must win or we're finished as a country.
I understand and cringe at some of Hillary's old ways / lobbying/ corporateness but overall I like + respect her a lot actually-always have (never understood the visceral reaction people have about her, my Quaker Mom included), and unlike Joe Klein I'm not interested in having any President in my house.
Hillary will kick ass, take no prisoners (no pun intented) and get this country back on the right track on all the tracks.
Not perfect stop a politician stop crafty stop calculating stop good stop

++ added benefit of long-time relationships with leaders and their wives of dozens of countries...

jt
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. He is despicable, just like the clients he serves: Blackwater, Union Carbide....
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
17. I watched that, it was agonizing
I knew the Clinton campaign was in trouble when it picked that Celine Dion song but then her ratings held up anyway. I kept wondering, who the fuck are her constituents that voted for that shlock? Mark Penn being added to the campaign was wildly derided but with stratopheric poll ratings nobody cared.
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Mother Of Four Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. If she wants her campaign to do well....


Hillary REALLY needs to get that Mark Penn off the air. I was actually sitting here nauseous watching and listening, the only word that can come to mind is "Slimy"

I may not support Hillary, I may not like her all too much...but even she deserves a better "face" of stratgey than this creepola.

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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
21. Penn does a little laugh there at the end when Trippi is speaking.
So maybe it is indeed a campaign strategy to turn Sen.Clinton into a chucklehead.

Could Penn be the "giggly Hillary" architect? One thing I know for certain is that right-wingers LOVE that crap. Just recall--if you can stand to--how often Ann Coulter laughs off her opponents views, questions, and concerns.
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. Correction. Hillary is killing Hillary's campaign. She sets the tone, and hires the staff.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Yep. It's not like she lost a bet- this is who she chose. n/t
PB
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. What did Penn say that you believe was a "mess"?
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MirrorAshes Donating Member (942 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. I am amazed they found someone more vile than Howard Wolfson
its uncanny, really

I'm no Hillary supporter but if she is gonna put people on TV to talk for her they really shouldn't come off looking like bullies/republicans.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. LOL! My thoughts exactly! nt
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