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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:48 AM
Original message
John Stossel: No Group Has Had More Government Help Than American Indians
 
Run time: 00:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otWAbnFIKvE
 
Posted on YouTube: March 24, 2011
By YouTube Member: tpmtv
Views on YouTube: 171
 
Posted on DU: March 24, 2011
By DU Member: Charleston Chew
Views on DU: 3539
 


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GodlessBiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. I feel like that Native American in that commercial so many years ago. A tear running down my cheek
This guy is an asshole extraordinaire.
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CBGLuthier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You mean that Italian guy, Iron Eyes Cody?
Or rather Espera Oscar de Corti, the guy who liked to play indian.
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catbyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. For once, words fail me.
Diane
Anishnabe in MI
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Floyd Red Crow Westerman should have been cast in that role...
He's the "real" deal ("Chief Ten Bears" in Dances with Wolves). Like or loathe, Kevin Costner, his "Dances with Wolves" was the one film that cast and portrayed Native Americans with any level of accuracy.

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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. the one film that cast and portrayed Native Americans with any level of accuracy.
You're joking, right? Those hours of guano??? Like the New Yorker said "Costner has feathers in his hair and feathers in his head. Should be called "Plays with Camera".

Never seen

"Little Big Man"

or even better

"Black Robe"?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. I'm talking language, clothing, casting...
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 11:12 AM by hlthe2b
Yes, I saw Little Big Man-- you are kidding, right? Great movie, but hardly "accurate, authenticate" Geebus :eyes:
Black Robe? Good movie. But, issues remain.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
33.  but hardly "accurate, authenticate" Geebus
The plot may not be... but the clothing language and casting.... perfect!


And what issues remain for "Black Robe"? Well, yes.... they did tone down the violence and torture the Natives indulged in....
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Just out of curosity what is your opinion of the film A Man Called Horse?
I've never seen Black Robe. I'll have to look for it.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Oh. fer gawd's sakes.
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 02:09 PM by hlthe2b
Clothing, casting and language was authentic to the period in DWW. Likewise, the Lakota Sioux have acknowledged its accurate portrayal of the Sioux-- and its hallmark achievement in doing so against all the Hollywood stereotypes. Even Costner's worst detractors have acknowledged that. THAT was my point.

Beyond that, yes it was a movie based on a fictional book. Yes. As are nearly all movies. Geebus.
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catbyte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Pow-Wow Highway or Smoke Signals are better :)
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. So it's not just me that went Whaaa? To Native Americans portrayed
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 02:09 PM by axollot
properly in Dances w/bullshyte.

Cheers
Sandy
:hi:

edit to add k and r
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. It is the Lakota Sioux who worked on the production who
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 02:13 PM by hlthe2b
disagree strongly with your evaluation. But, I'm sure you know more about their own history and ancestors than they. :eyes:
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Can't say that I have worked with them. Are you Lakota Sioux? Can you present
something that the Lakota Sioux were happy about it beyond your point of view? (I did look :shrug: )

Still we are splitting hairs, the movie is just a movie. To be honest I'd be happy to be wrong on the issue. :)

However, tribal life on many reservations (of virtually all tribes) remain harsh today and their poverty is very extreme, even compared w/some of the worst poverty areas around the country. I live in NE FL about 5 min drive to some very harsh poverty (experienced by ALL including whites, blacks, Latina (or is it Latino?) and many Natives usually Seminole or Cherokee, around here many are both). Also travel to my Mother's place in Mississippi which is another place where poverty is heart breakingly bad.

The ignorance in this video is astounding though. What Stossel doesnt understand is why poverty is so bad on reservations - did they not consider that they were given some of the most remote and harsh land?(some children have to endure a hours on a bus in a day to get to/from schools) but they are trying to keep their culture and language alive but it's harder and harder to do on some of the reservations and I'm not saying it's the Native's fault at all. Even those reservations that have casino's often employ few Natives!

For example, doing a quick look online (saw a documentary recently on conditions Natives of the Dakotas endure) I found this quote which was accurate per documentary: From Wiki...(quote)The Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, located in Shannon and Jackson counties of South Dakota, is one of the poorest regions in the United States. It is also the site of some of the bloodiest events in the 19th-century war between the Native people and United States government. There is isnt any train, bus, theatre, clothing store, drug store, barber shop, restaurant, place to get a car fixed or home delivery of mail. A car is the only way to get around, yet a fifth of all Shannon County households dont have one. The few shops are fortresses against burglary, with boards or heavy metal mesh covering their windows<16> The unemployment rate is 35% to 45% and the median income is estimated to be $6,100<17> (end quote) (that's annually) :cry:

( Wiki article appears targeted by the right too since this gem was found in the 1st section regarding reservation poverty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_poverty saying... "Indian reservations, as the ultimate welfare state

Cheers
Sandy
:hi:





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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I am not. I have worked ....
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 04:14 PM by hlthe2b
on a health related project on Pine Ridge, however. Your assumptions about me are very much mistaken.

I had the opportunity to meet a few who worked on the movie with Costner-- a few years after the movie was released. They consulted on language and translations and related cultural aspects and were exceedingly proud of the way in which the Lakota Sioux were portrayed as opposed to the decades of Hollywood stereotypes.

Like or detest Costner. That is immaterial to the discussion, to me.
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I didnt assume, mate I asked you LOL HUGE difference!! I also
said I was happy to be wrong! There are more than one poster that wasnt impressed w/Dances. I was but one.

bye
:hi:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. appreciate it...
As I said, it is immaterial whether others like Costner or not. I am no big fan nor supporter. But here are a few quotes from those who participated in the movie from an article I found archived. Not those I personally met, but certainly among the group who worked on the movie. I only care because of the pain it causes these proud people to be so derided out of personal feelings (and significant misunderstandings)towards Costner.


Here you go:
Mr. Costner may earn praise for avoiding the usual Hollywood depiction of Indians. The casting director, Elisabeth Leustig, scoured the United States and Canada looking for Indian actors for the leading roles; the rest of the cast are local Sioux from South Dakota. The result is a film populated with interesting faces -- among them cackling, toothless old women and tubby little boys up to mischief. The quest for authenticity is reflected in the costumes of tanned deer hide and buffalo wraps, at times decorated with elaborate beadwork and porcupine-quill weaving.

Perhaps Mr. Costner's most unusual decision was to use the original Pawnee and Lakota languages with English subtitles. It may have been this gesture of respect toward Indian culture that prompted the Sioux to induct him, Mr. Wilson and the actress Mary McDonnell, who plays Lieutenant Dunbar's love interest, into the tribe after the film was made.

Doris Leader Charge, a Lakota instructor on the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota, spent four to five hours a day for three weeks teaching her language to the actors. She was later given a small role, and Mr. Costner often kept her by his side as an adviser during production. She taught him how to rig the teepees correctly and instructed him in the delicate laws of Indian etiquette, such as the seating arrangement around a Sioux chief during a village meeting.
--snip--
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/movies/bestpicture...


*****
October 28, 1990|GERALDINE BAUM

Doris Leader Charge earned more money working for Kevin Costner for six months than she does in a year teaching Lakota, a Sioux dialect, on the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakota.

"Our people are very poor," said Leader Charge, who is 60 and earned her college degree only a few years ago. "Nobody has work. Few own cars. Few speak good English. . . . We have big problems."
Amid the high life, however, the American Indians kept returning to their high hopes that the movie would draw more than just money for Hollywood--perhaps a wave of respect for their culture, verging on extinction since white frontiersmen began taking their land and depleting their buffalo herds in the 19th Century.

"We have very little things to be proud of," said Leader Charge matter-of-factly but with pride. "This could do us some good."

The American Indians involved in Costner's $18-million project are hoping that the new movie will entice the public into a more accurate understanding of the Sioux affinity for peace, family and humor.

In this movie, in fact, there are none of the old Hollywood stereotypes of the "Injun." There are no drunken savages nor white actors covered in red greasepaint hanging out at the trading post and uttering words like "How" at the white folks.

Rather, the movie portrays Sioux families living and working together. There are ritual dances and a wedding; wives warmly embrace their husbands as the men head off to fight another tribe. There are herds of beautiful horses and, in every scene, children underfoot.

As the Costner character in the film describes life among the Sioux, "Every day ends with a miracle. They are eager to laugh, devoted to family, dedicated to each other." Costner and crew are hoping this flip side of the "Injun" story will sell.--snip--

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-10-28/entertainment/ca...
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. Thanks!! n/t
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. See "Naturally Native" or "Smoke signals"
Those were MADE by Naive Americans.

I may have to send this thread to my cousin. She lived in Floyd's garage apartment for years and is VP of First Americans in the Arts ( a foundation that honors Native Americans in the film industry). On second thought, she's had enough stress this year...

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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. I should think it would be very difficult to see this from Stossel.
Perhaps sparing her would be wise.
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. I remember that commercial when I was a kid
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 10:36 AM by Avant Guardian
I always found it very intense and meaningful, even as a little kid

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R-FZsysQNw
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
41. ditto! n/t
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. fucking asshole. nt
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. +1000! nt
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Marblehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't
want to hear one word out of this asshole
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Hassin Bin Sober Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. .
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Marblehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Now
that's entertainment!!
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randr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. No group has sacrificed so much so that Stossel can make such ridiculous claims
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 10:00 AM by randr
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. And Stossel has had more corporate welfare...
to compensate for his extreme deficiencies, than anyone can imagine. He may as well move into the Fred Phelps family. They are the only ones as clueless and intentionally callous as Stossel.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, like "help" the Native Americans off their land.
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They_Live Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. No Group
Has Had More Government Help Than American Indians, well, except the Corporations and the Billionaires, and Wall Street, oh and the Defense industry. Blowhard jerk.
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PADemD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Please send Stossel that message.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
11. Native Americans and supporters need to do a major attack on the guy and FOXx
along with boycotting advertisers.
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benld74 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. No Stoessel has received MORE $ assistance for saying * things from forces unknown
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
16. He could easily work for the Onion
he is serious, but that could easily be satire.
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wxgeek7 Donating Member (189 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Hmmm...
There were once an estimated 75,000,000 indians in the Americas before Columbus arrived....I rest my case, idiot.
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WingDinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dumbasses should have become banksters, like the GOOD indians.
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Dookiestix Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm just wondering...
...when right wingers will finally go over the line and say "fvck you" to the American Indian. Once their white pride delusional fantasies reach such a peak as to allow their paranoia to overflow into some alternate reality, then I don't think there's any way to stop their attempts to once again rewrite history and write the American Indian (the only indigenous population in this country) off. It's bad enough for white right wing lunatics to freak out over the continued diversification of this nation. Hispanics are now 50 million in our population today. That must really piss off the right wing Tea Baggers. And what probably pisses them off more is that the color those damned Hispanics' skins are similar to the American Indian.

OH MY GOD!!! WTF is an idiot llike John Stossel gonna do?
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
20. The help they got was the government helping itself to their lands. n/t
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
23. How about we put Stossel through a few of the experiences the Indians went through
to deserve that "assistance." More like Affirmative remedies when you consider how much we stole from them.

The guy is an idiot pinhead.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
25. This is an OLD RW talking point.
I remember one dreadful family Thanksgiving dinner... musta been in the early 90's... when my big wig rich lawyer uncle declared

"The American Indian would be NOWHERE today if it weren't for the white man!!!!"

The funny thing was, my Limbaugh listening father had just said the exact same thing (same wording and inflection even) the day before.

What a coincidence!
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sasha031 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
26. this puke is so sickening
I remember him as far back as the 70's. He is the intimate corporate whore.

I truly hate that guy
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Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
28. Actually, the rich have had more government largess
The problem is the tax cutting.
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AllTooEasy Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
29. Post Genocide - probably yes; but still not close to even
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 11:32 AM by AllTooEasy
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Ticonderoga Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
30. It time for another Bitch Slappin isn't it Stossel?
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geardaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
31. Go fuck yourself, Stouchebag.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. Stossel's favorite reading: Cato Institute blog and Hayek's "Road to Serfdom".
According to a profile in Reader's Digest.

Clear symptoms of total winger maggot brain.
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Ratty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. Isn't this like that guy who said there were no terrorist attacks during GW's presidency?
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
38. Their sickening racism knows no bounds. This needs to stop being
Edited on Thu Mar-24-11 02:05 PM by axollot
OK. Trash talk like this needs to stop being mainstreamed. Fox will be it's own undoing though, it may take time but their rabid viewers are the 60 and older group already.
When is it enough? When will politicians get blow back from their associations with Fox? It's beyond time.

Cheers
Sandy
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. We really lost a lot when Keith Olbermann was silenced on MSNBC
Who will expose/counter the likes of Stossel and his blatant hate-filled racism?
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
43. Spoken like a true biggot
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-24-11 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
50. light it up
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-25-11 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
51. His brain has money-rot. His undeserved salary is too high and has
screwed with his perception. Can he really be that dense?
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