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"If George W Bush Were Torturing Bradley Manning Would The Left Rollover The Way They Do For Obama?"

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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:52 AM
Original message
"If George W Bush Were Torturing Bradley Manning Would The Left Rollover The Way They Do For Obama?"
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 01:57 AM by democracy1st
 
Run time: 08:01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kon5MMf2Ao
 
Posted on YouTube: March 12, 2011
By YouTube Member: MOXNEWSd0tCOM
Views on YouTube: 301
 
Posted on DU: March 12, 2011
By DU Member: democracy1st
Views on DU: 1251
 
Amnesty calls for protests over Bradley Manning's treatment


In late January, Amnesty International wrote a letter to Defense Secretary Robert Gates denouncing the conditions of Bradley Manning's detention as "unnecessarily harsh and punitive" and in "breach the USAs obligations under international standards and treaties." In the wake of the prolonged forced nudity to which Manning is now being subjected, Amnesty has escalated its denunciations: as the Associated Press put it today, the group is now "urging people to complain to the Obama administration about the confinement."

In particular, Amnesty said that "the conditions inflicted on Bradley Manning . . . amount to inhumane treatment by the US authorities" and "appear to breach the USAs human rights obligations." As a result, the group is encouraging as many Americans as possible to demand an end to these conditions (independent of Amnesty, there is a planned protest outside the Quantico brig on March 20, expected to be fairly large in size, with others being planned at military detention facilities around the country for later dates). In case anyone is wondering what Amnesty is: it's the world's premiere human rights organization which Democrats once held up as authoritative on issues on detainee abuse circa 2001- January 20, 2009 -- remember that?

Yesterday, the Quantico base commander denied Manning's formal request for less harsh treatment -- including an end to his forced nudity and 23-hour-a-day solitary confinement. That request -- which is really a formal complaint of mistreatment -- will now be forwarded to the Secretary of Navy, and if he also rejects it, then Manning's lawyer will file a Writ of Habeas Corpus with the Army Court of Criminal Appeals. Manning's counsel today released his rebuttal to the Commander's decision and it supplies much more detailed information about just how harsh and punitive is Manning's treatment; Marcy Wheeler documents how similar in language and content is this treatment to many of the core methods of degradation popularized during the Bush administration. But as we well know, caring about what Amnesty thinks is -- just like concerns over detainee abuse and indefinite detention -- so very 2005.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/... (Updated daily)

Obama: Bradley Manning Treatment Appropriate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/11/obama-bradley-...

Bradley Manning Is Punished for Seeking a More Perfect Union

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-zeese/bradley-manni...

Private Bradley Manning: A Victim of the Military Empire?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/private-...

Bradley Manning, Army Private Held in WikiLeaks Case, Left Naked for 7 Hours

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/bradley-mannin...



The U.S. Military is seeking to make an example of Bradley Manning, who is accused of releasing classified information about war crimes and government corruption to the WikiLeaks website.

We are here to say: We believe in truth and government accountability. We want real democracy. We are tired of perpetual wars and perpetual lies. We are Bradley Manning!

Read more: http://www.bradleymanning.org/#ixzz1GMyj1R4K


The man accused of leaking US secrets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x94JptQWTgI



Bradley Manning Support Network

http://www.bradleymanning.org /


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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. great question!
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 04:09 AM by Charleston Chew
Sam Seder asked this same question last week. The answer is, NO! If this was happening whilst the previous administration was in power, there would be a firestorm of rage.

The fact that Obama is "our guy" has changed the motivation of activist.

Where is the outrage about the treatment of Private First Class Bradley Manning?

The battle over Unions is under control. those folks are well motivated and have countless lawyers, celebrities and activist. The feel good montage videos are unnecessary.

The earthquake in Japan is tragic and interesting but should it be the dominating story on a web site called

D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T-I-C
U-N-D-E-R-G-R-O-U-N-D?


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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, of course not. I have learned a lot about the 'left' and about
Democratic politicians since we won the WH.

It was a lesson we needed to learn. And it explains why so many times I used to be confused by the votes of Democrats on horrific legislation like the Military Commissions Act. Now it is all clear.

And now, maybe we can do something about it. By continuing to support Democrats who voted for such vile legislation, we were enabling war criminals. I so much regret that. I'd make some excuses, but they would be hypocritical at this point.

Torture is so wrong, we shouldn't even have to discuss it. But to think that the Democrat we put in the WH is also a torturer is simply stunning. Not just because he is Democrat, but because of what it means about this country and the hopes we had that it was just a few bad Republicans.

So now, what do we do?
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AgainsttheCrown Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Another much needed lesson
Comes from the staunch Obama supporters.

I am now better able to distinguish between the staunch supporters and the apologists.

The apologists disgusted me even more than the establishment liberals (who I've come to expect this from) by defending this. At what point will they no longer defend him? Can he do whatever he wants because he's on team Democrat?

I see where this is leading (BTW I disagree that his race has anything to do with the lack of criticism.) Just as only Nixon could go to China, only Clinton could pass NAFTA and kill welfare.

And today only Obama could carry out almost every one of Dubya's counter-terrorism policies and not get much heat.

And later...if he so chooses make a grand bargain with the Republicans to cut Social Security.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. At what point will they no longer defend him?
I think that depends on their own principles and morals. I fully expect that he will have defenders no matter he does, just as Bush did. But I always knew those Bushbots were people with no morals or principles.
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AgainsttheCrown Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I would expect that
Those who claim to seek social justice would have already abandoned him or at least no longer be enamored with him and realize the limitations.
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh please
There is no center left with power in DC. Pelosi took impeachment of war crimes and crimes against humanity off the table. Kucinich spent years trying to get an investigation.

Obama has the same policies as Bush; throwing more money at Wall Street and the Banksters.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. Exactly. Excellent question.
So many things that were 'bad' under Bush are now a-double-plus-good under Obama.
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. Emblematic of Chris Hedges' death of the liberal class
The DC-centered Dem power base looks to disarm the activist wings of the party, not encourage them. (And in the wake of Citizens United, corporate money is where it's at.)

Of course, Pres. Obama knows of Manning and his situation. Treating Manning this way is stupid, counterproductive and yet another stain on his presidency.

Looking forward...

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AgainsttheCrown Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Have you read it?
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 06:34 AM by AgainsttheCrown
I've listened to his interviews and read his articles about it, but have yet to read it. If so what'd ya think? It's on my list (which is huge) and I'll have to get to it after I graduate in May.

Edit to add: I disagree that we should abandon them now. There are 3-4 court appointments coming up in the next term. If we want to save the country without a total collapse, then we must at least have somewhat more moderate judges than what a Republican president would have.
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FlyByNight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Haven't read it yet
Like you, I've read articles, watched YouTube vids and heard interviews. Just got done with Empire of Illusion, which was quite good (and somewhat depressing). I like his writing style - eloquent and blunt.
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Majority Report, March 2, 2011
Edited on Sat Mar-12-11 07:10 AM by Charleston Chew
__________
Sam Seder interviews Author and columnist Chris Hedges.

Sam Seder interviews Chris Hedges, author and columnist with Truthdig. They talk about what is the American liberal class and how he (Chris Hedges) believes that it is dying.

let it load first, starts @ 17:48

http://majority.fm/2011/03/02/wednesday-march-2-2011 /
__________
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. The left Is not silent. Obama is not liberal.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. moderates would/ have. not the left. nt
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JJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
14. Torturing of Manning is a lesson
Their treatment of him is to act as a deterrent to anyone else who might wish to expose the power elite crimes.
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freedom fighter jh Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'm missing the part where the Left rolled over.
"Where is Code Pink"? Here: http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?id=5523 . (It wasn't funny, Dylan. This is not the time to be adolescent.)
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. what video were you watching?
Dylan didn't make a joke about code pink.

Amy Holmes made the comment about code pink and Dylan was laughing at her pathetic jab at the orginaztion.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. Who's rolling over?
I haven't given Obama a break on this issue.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Me neither
And as it stands, I may be voting "Socialist" in 2012.

If he wants my vote, Obama has to convince me not to...
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dylan Ratigan, Sam Seder, Ari Berman discuss PFC Bradley Manning
__________
December 20, 2010 MSNBC

Is PFC Bradley Manning Being Held In Torture Like Conditions To Extract A Conspiracy Confession?

Dylan Ratigans mega-panel, radio host Sam Seder The Nation's Ari Berman and Washington Examiner columnist Tim Carney discuss why PFC Bradley Manning should not be treated like a member of Al Qaeda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
__________
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Charleston Chew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-12-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. How the So-Called Guardians of Free Speech Are Silencing the Messenger
___________
by: John Pilger
Saturday 12 March 2011

As the United States and Britain look for an excuse to invade another oil-rich Arab country, the hypocrisy is familiar. Colonel Gaddafi is "delusional" and "blood-drenched" while the authors of an invasion that killed a million Iraqis, who have kidnapped and tortured in our name, are entirely sane, never blood-drenched and once again the arbiters of "stability."

But something has changed. Reality is no longer what the powerful say it is. Of all the spectacular revolts across the world, the most exciting is the insurrection of knowledge sparked by WikiLeaks. This is not a new idea. In 1792, the revolutionary Tom Paine warned his readers in England that their government believed that "people must be hoodwinked and held in superstitious ignorance by some bugbear or other." Paine's "The Rights of Man" was considered such a threat to elite control that a secret grand jury was ordered to charge him with "a dangerous and treasonable conspiracy." Wisely, he sought refuge in France.
The ordeal and courage of Paine is cited by the Sydney Peace Foundation in its award of Australia's human rights gold medal to Julian Assange. Like Paine, Assange is a maverick who serves no system and is threatened by a secret grand jury, a malicious device long abandoned in England, but not in the United States. If extradited to the US, he is likely to disappear into the Kafkaesque world that produced the Guantanamo Bay nightmare and now accuses Bradley Manning, WikiLeaks' alleged whistleblower, of a capital crime.

http://www.truth-out.org/how-so-called-guardians-free-s...
___________
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-13-11 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. This is a rhetorical question and you know the answer
The same question could be asked for any number of Obama policies - the first one that comes to mind is the social security commission...There are a litany of other policy choices -
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