Olbermann: Rachel Maddow is the Voice of Reason (Taser Incident)

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 06:51 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSLC9E8v2SA   Posted on YouTube: September 19, 2007 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: September 19, 2007 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 2940

 
September 18, 2007 - MSNBC "Countdown w/ KEITH OBERMANN"

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yeah she was

and in my view, one that will not be popular round these parts....

The cops were wrong (and right) and the kid was wrong and right.

The kid escalated... and the cops did the best they could to contain it. Should they have used other tactics? Perhaps

On the other hand... I am not sure how much room they had, but the fact the kid was let go under his own recognizance and internal affairs is now involved, it will be messy.

But yes, when I watched the video I went... they are going too far... nope there is a fist... yep this will be messy... ouch for all involved.

Is this about free speech? I am not so sure after readying other threads, aparently from witnesses...

And no, free speech is not absolute, so this one will be messy to adjudicate...

My personal suspicion, charges will be dropped to misdemeanor and every will go home... and the cops will hope this is forgotten.

[aquart]

2. It can't be forgotten. It happened on campus.

A student disruptor was tasered. The price of activism, of calling attention to your issue in the United States, is now torture.

Any campus that sits still for this deserves to be uncredited.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. As I said, I don't see things this black and white

on this PARTICULAR issue

As She pointed out, they were both right and wrong

[aquart]

6. So taser is an effective tool to quell protesting students?

I think I prefer the pepper spray, and I didn't like that at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. If all you have is a gun, you will use a gun

since all problems will look like a nail

[TheWraith]

26. Don't be ridiculous. He wasn't tasered for protesting. He was tasered for getting in a fight

With the police. I'm generally very anti-taser, but this is far from the most egregious use of the thing.

[aquart]

29. He was tasered for getting in a fight with campus security guards.

NOT the police. You might want to note that distinction.

In the pre-taser years, my campus' security rent a cops carried great big club-like flashlights. Before that, there were billy clubs. Which could leave a nice bruise.

I repeat, any campus that puts up with this should have its accreditation revoked. Because it ain't teaching anything our kids should learn.

[TheWraith]

31. Campus security guards usually ARE police. Most big campuses have a dedicated police force.

And I'll repeat--this is someone who clearly showed up at the event with the sole purpose of disrupting it and making a scene, to get attention for himself. If you really think that someone like that shouldn't be removed from an event, by all means try running a college under those rules.

[Catch22Dem]

11. You're ABSOLUTELY right, it's not black and white

It's a shame so many people here can't see that.

Should this guy have been tasered? No, I don't think so, but did he go too far? I do think so. The people who want to go on and on about this guy's free speech right, what about him taking away the other students' right to speak as well? In a Q&A you ask a Q and get an A. You don't stand there and shout at the speaker (who is on OUR side, let's not forget) asking question after question after question. That's not how it works. He prevented the other students from getting their questions asked and answered and for that he's just a selfish asshole, not some activist to be revered.

[bjobotts]

3. Free speech does not mean free to disrupt...still no excuse to taser.

Police were all wrong...always first response is put hands behind back and cuff. The cops should be sued for escalating the situation and using excessive force. They came up immediately and started grabbing his arms to hand cuff him...they had no right to do that and certainly could have diffused the situation without grabbing him. Who the hell do they think they are to treat fellow citizens like that? Kerry was in the process of handling it.
I guess free speech isn't free to the police...it cost an arm and a leg. Holding him down and then tasering him was just pure torture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. From the tape it is clear as mud

and Kerry was in the prcoess of handling it?

Rachel maddow called this one right. they were all right and wrong

[Netbeavis]

8. The man clearly resisted any attempts by the police to grab him

First, your wrong on the first response.

Second, Dipshit escalated the situation to more than what is should have been. Had he complied with the police and not dirupted what had been a peaceful assembly up to that point, none of this happens. Period.

With that being said, I question the use of any escalated non-lethal force (taser/pepper spray) where there are clearly 6 police officers present. We can not see what dipshit was doing at the bottom of the pile, but its clear at the end that he is on the ground and no longer capable of fleeing. I believe that 6 officers should have been able to handle the situation at that point.

[LaloBorges]

15. If the cops don't get involved nothing happens and Kerry has to answer the questions

Kerry should have asked the police to stop harassing the guy, we all know that in a situation like this, where there is no initial violence, once the police gets in, trouble starts. The police could have stayed at a safe distance and not get involved, their action created a reaction (physics) and Kerry obviously did not want to answer the questions as he should have, but did not stop the police.

Now, lets demand that Kerry answer the questions.

Although I would have rather have Kerry as president than the chimp we have, this incident shows how ill prepared Kerry is to handle conflicting situations. He did nothing, not good....

[terip64]

7. kick and recommend! Thanks for the post! n/t

[comtec]

9. i smell law suit

and I can't blame the kid one iota.
This was too much force. IMHO the best thing would have been to give him th e option of sitting down, hand cuffed, and wait for the answer from the senator. then frog march him out. As has been stated, all acted poorly in this case. it do get the feeling the campus security acted very poorly, 6 v 1 are very poor odds for the kid.
What is sad is that the answer, and the question are now unknown and lost. This could have been done better, and a share (half?) of the blame is on the kid.

Free speech only means you can say it, not that you;'ll be free from consequences.

[Spinzonner]

16. That's a rather absurd notion

I don't understand what you mean by 'can' in this context. If you mean physically able, well that's a rather legally vacuous point since the law can't physically stop anyone absent some external agent.

In legal terms, we generally consider 'can' to reflect on whether it is legally permitted and what is legally not permitted by definition is subject to legal consequences.

The fact seems to be that the questioner agitated and aggressive and confrontational. In situations like that there's very little leeway and time for police to determine such things as state of mind and intent and they are generally tasked to take control of situations and the actors in them to avoid serious consequences because to wait too long may be disasterous.

Once the police intervened it was the kid's legal obligation to cooperate or at the very least only exercise passive resistance and not engage in the active resistance - seeking to escape custody - as he did. The consequences of any other action require escalation by the police to establish and maintain control.

[peaches2003]

10. Everybody wrong in this

The kid came with an agenda and was not just an 'honor student who had a question'. From what I've read the questioning was already concluded and he went to a mike and ranted for 4 minutes before they turned the mike off. How come you can hear the other students applauding when they turned it off and tried to get him off? Then, I agree the police way overreacted. He has done this type of thing before and obviously was disruptive to begin with.

[rodeodance]

12. The kid needs to learn some manners.

[RoccoR5955]

13. Welcome to the Police States of America...

... where the police don't have to obey the law, because they ARE the law.

[zalinda]

14. After seeing that part of the tape

I think he was miked. How else could just his voice be heard and no one else's. He was hoping this would happen.

zalinda

[springhill]

18. I keep hearing over and over again.........

how we was miked, and that he was a plant, as if that is an excuse to taser someone. I hope that's not what people are saying, but it sounds like it to me.

[zalinda]

21. Think about it

Would anyone even know he was tased, if he hadn't said something, that could be heard, on video? We still don't know if he was really tased, only that he said don't tase me, then ow,ow,ow,ow. In fact, if he was shocked, it most likely wasn't a taser, because a taser is shot over a distance. He would have had to be shocked with a stun "gun", at such a close range. And, stun "guns" can look like anything, and voltage is variable depending on what model you buy.

This definitely was a stunt, and the more we find out, the more we will find it had nothing to do with free speech, being "tased", or even bad cops, it was to promote his web site and make money. And he did it without thinking what it would do to others involved in the stunt. They were his victims, and they are paying the price. Senator Kerry did not deserve to be blamed for this guy's and the cop's actions, but he has. UF did not deserve this bad PR, but it has. The kids in the auditorium didn't deserve to witness this stunt, but they have. And what if this guy hasn't been shocked, did the cops deserve this.

zalinda

[alllyingwhores]

17. And...has Kerry ever really answered these questions?

[Lochloosa]

24. And what questions would you like him to answer?

Was he a member of S/B's?
Yes.

[colorado_ufo]

19. "Cuff 'em, Danno!" and off to detention.

Six guys could not do this without a Taser? For shame!

[Hamlette]

22. She is the voice of reason. So much more so than Randy. Glad she's out there. n/t

[jillan]

23. Rachel Maddow is the best of the best.

I have been a fan of hers since the first day I heard her in 2003.

She cuts thru the bs with intelligent and thought provoking discussion.
I am so glad she is getting the media attention she deserves.

[yodermon]

25. money quote:

"Show me a polite activist and I'll show you an issue that isn't going very far"

Right on Rachel

[sandnsea]

27. She's outstanding

I'd like her to have a cable show.

[tblue37]

28. Ever since I first saw the video

of the guy getting grabbed and jumping around trying to get away, it has reminded me of something I could not quite put my finger on—but I just realized what it is.

Remember the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, where the peasant (played by Terry Jones) goes into a Marxist rant against King Arthur, and ends up jumping up and down while being pummeled, ranting, “Come see the violence inherent in the system!” Doesn’t Meyer’s leaps and struggles (and his ongoing shouting) remind you of that scene?

[wrenny]

30. Totally!!

but I thought the peasant was Eric Idle...
Anyway, this is all so interesting to me since I can't seem to figure out which 'side' of this to come out on.
Zalinda in post #21 makes some great points about the student - are we all being 'played' here?
On the other hand, I listen to Randi Rhodes and it's hard to disagree with her that the police/security (I'm still not clear which it was since I've heard it both ways) handled the entire situation quite badly (tasering someone for being rude and obnoxious? I don't think so). I also agree in general that it really looks like our society doesn't seem to have a problem with police and 'security' using more and more excessive means to keep us from speaking out against the evil empire and if we don't 'obey' their orders, they have the right to injure us.
Bottom line on this is that THIS particular story is full of layers to be sifted through.

[subsuelo]

32. I wanna see the Pluto video

the maddow interview was kinda dull...