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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:05 AM
Original message
Did Killing Electric Car Kill GM? Worth Watching Now
 
Run time: 09:16
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNM2Scbijw
 
Posted on YouTube: October 14, 2008
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: December 05, 2008
By DU Member: ksimons
Views on DU: 1062
 
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-- poet and philosopher George Santayana:

Parts:

1 (above)

2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R-dPFmSOqA
3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQkU24hUC44
4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMs0vT_6JWM

5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2qFAnnCm7s
6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4XccKd6pqE
7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn8JA_pfLTA

8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPMfMdtgEIw
9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f3jKZVEDIY
0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIwM8peiH7Q
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks. It probably killed more than just GM.
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is the full movie 'Who Killed The Electric Car' - forgot to mention that above

my bad
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I've seen the movie, very powerful. Thanks for posting this! K&R.
Everyone should see this... :-(
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. K & R # 5. There's a full version w/Spanish subtitles on Google video
Edited on Fri Dec-05-08 08:23 AM by greyhound1966
for those that don't want to watch it in pieces.

ETA: French?

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=killed+electric+c...


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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. It definitely should.
I haven't seen the movie yet. But, I have read accounts of corporate sabotage and espionage that give me a clue.
No one should profit from that kind of betrayal of public trust. They SHOULD go bust as a bounty reward for all the evils they condone.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. so as per usual it was the BFEE that killed it
every aspect of the BFEE is there, the busco disaster, big oil, car companies, their cronies in congress. They all did it.


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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's not about the electric car. (I really want to shout this!)
It's about how we generate electricity.

We already have electric cars. We've had them since the sixties. Even if we had used lead acid batteries, we didn't, and still don't have the means by which to generate renewable electricity.

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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Even with the most disgusting power sources electric cars are substantially cleaner
than petroleum powered cars. And if you are using renewables, that's even better. Power companies generate a surplus of electricity at night because they have to keep their large plants running. So charging cars at night and using cars to discharge part of that power during the day when electrical demand is at it's peak could be quite useful. It would allow the generation of overall lower amounts of electricity by evening out the load requirements.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. That's debatable.
It has been nearly 20 years since I took higher level thermodynamics courses. I used to know much that I've since forgotten. Charging up an electric car using the grid is still using nonrenewable resources. The difference being a larger and therefore more efficient engine, in the case of a diesel powered plant, with the additional losses of the grid.

We either use renewables or we are still producing carbon emissions.

And I would bet anything that given the distances people commute, charging would have to take place during peak hours.

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roody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I would be charging mine from my solar array.
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diane in sf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Actually it's not. There are a number of links on various threads in E&E where its been
hashed out quite thoroughly:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


49 percent of US is coal powered

Edited on Sat May-10-08 06:10 PM by IDemo
I'm not a big fan of coal either, particularly since a large part of it is mined with mountaintop removal methods. But in terms of energy efficiency and greenhouse gas effects, an electric car powered by electricity from coal beats an internal combustion one hands down. An EV in parts of the country using hydro, natural gas, or nuclear will obviously do much better.

http://www.utsolar.org/documents/Somerville%20Solar%20P ...

http://tiny.cc/DQgWw

http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee ...
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I've seen that. I think we're in agreement.
The fractional improvement of charging an electric car battery array versus using that same fuel to operate an internal combustion engine is hardly something to be optimistic about.

Here's why I don't even want to go there. Research is pointing to environmental catastrophe if we don't stop carbon emissions completely within ten years. That's more than a little frightening. We don't have time for baby steps.

When one does a well to wheel analysis they realize that it takes petroleum just to refine petroleum. And when one looks at heavy transportation, we can't use electric. So even if we were operating cars for personal transportation on 100% renewables today, we would still be in a serious situation that may actually require something like carbon sequestration in order to have negative carbon emissions.

I know what people are saying. Any improvement is better than what we've got. And I agree. The unfortunate situation is that we waited until planet earth was in the emergency room before we decided to give up smoking.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. it's about corruption... aka rightwingers...
there are about 1/2 billion(?) cars on earth right now, so obviously to power a replacement fleet would also require vast energy, but ...we should have colonies on the moon and Mars and even explorers on moons of Jupiter by now, but instead we have 1 million dead Iraqis and the son/grandson of a man who was part of a pre WW2 coup attempt to overthrow FD Roosevelt regime both prez and ex prez! Electric cars aren't the answer, agreed, but....but....but.... :shrug:
'shrugging is wisdom deferred' the saintly Che Guevera once said
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. We don't have ways to "generate" much oil either, why don't you shout that?
Unless of course we are willing to wait a few million years for the next batch to get ready.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-05-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. THANK YOU for making it easy!!
I've had this on my list for ages. Good to see it now in my "hope" mood. Would that ALL who worked against the EV be REMOVED from GM, replaced by those able to read the writing on the wall, before they receive ONE CENT from the taxpayer.
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MrsBrady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-06-08 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. i didn't expect to hear martin sheen's voice -- cool. n/t
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Rosetteismyname Donating Member (25 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. no electric car killed GM!
Greed kills companies...just like all those mortgages, the monies are gone b/c they gave themselves bonuses. Greed killed the companiy and greed killed the electric car. Think about oil companies don't want electric cars... exxon in the dallas morning news, that CEO is going to get a 10% raise. That is like giving someone a raise if we were charged to purchase oxygen on a regular basis. Or water...
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