Real Time w/ Bill Maher - 11/7: Prop 8 Gay Marriage

[Hissyspit]

Run time: 03:27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oeq-VEM4WZo   Posted on YouTube: November 08, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: November 08, 2008 By DU Member: Hissyspit Views on DU: 2943

 
HBO Real Time w/ BILL MAHER - Nov. 7, 2008: Howie Mandel.

[intheflow]

1. Allow me to be the first rec.

This GLBT/racial/religious fight is some crazy split-personality culture going down in the US. :-(

[orleans]

2. 2nd recommendation n/t

[d_b]

3. 3rd

[Pastiche423]

4. 6th

[phrigndumass]

5. Blame the rape victim for not doing enough to stop the rape?

When someone says the GLBT community didn't do enough "outreach" to prevent Prop 8's passage, it's just like telling the rape victim that they didn't do enough to prevent the rape. It's blaming the victim, and there's no logic in that.

jmho.

Good clip!

[struggle4progress]

6. It's disheartening to see everyone parrot "70%" without noting obvious problems with the poll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=88438&mesg_id=88438

[Peggesis1]

7. the obvious problem of blaming that 70%

Aren't African-Americans something like 10% of the population in California? So how is it that 70% of 10% of the population gets blamed for this? What about the 41% of the humungous percentage of Californians who are white who voted for prop 8? Until we all start looking at GLBT rights as civil rights, this will continue to happen.

[struggle4progress]

9. Another problem is that "70%" is a highly suspect statistic

[intheflow]

13. Sounds like the ratio of

African Americans who get jail time as opposed to whites who commit the same crimes. :(

[dbmk]

14. Thats a strawman argument. 99% are not assigning blame.

But questioning the number in that demographic. Because they would expect them to understand the struggle.

[bliss_eternal]

16. Wow---you polled DU and came up w/ 99%

Good for you.

Unfortunately there IS a lot of blame being asserted in one direction. Whether the statistics are factual or fair, no one seemed to care.

Yes, there is an expectation that minorities may be inclined to understand the struggles of other oppressed people.
But when someone makes such an argument, I would hope that they may be inclined to understand a few things:

1. That those that have struggled are human--humans are fallible (the make mistakes).

2. All that have come through oppression aren't necessary more noble from the experience.

3. The blame game frequently has no winners.

I was here on election night and was surprised to see people throwing in the towel with less than 50% of the vote was presented. At the same time, immediate assigning of blame. It seemed a rather convenient opportunity, given the media had already presented where the blame should lay if the vote passed.

There's something rather flawed in that.

[mitchtv]

17. er, that 70% objects to Gay rights

being called Civil rights.

[LatteLibertine]

8. No one is blaming African-Americans

Many are simply surprised at the number of them that support prop 8, particularly considering the history of abuse African-Americans have endured in this country. The same group within the white community that is creating intolerance vs gays is the same in the African-American, it's overwhelming those mired in religion. Usually it's religious "leaders" driving these sentiments.

[intheflow]

12. No, sadly I think some people ARE blaming blacks.

They may not be saying black voters are exclusively to blame, and religion is certainly getting blamed with the black vote, but from what I've seen and read in the news and on DU, there is an African American "blame game" going on over 8. :(

[bliss_eternal]

15. Thought these stats were interesting...

...regarding how specific areas in California voted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x89346

[Fearless]

10. Blame the individual. Make in roads into all types of groups

Including ethnic groups, social groups, and economic groups.

[Bette Noir]

11. Was Howie wearing a Wriststrong bracelet?

[yeswedid]

18. it's going to take OUTREACH to undo the religious blinders on people

first off - eff howie mandell and blaming blacks.

blacks are 10% of the population of california!

so 70% of 10% did the wrong thing...that's NOT causing your problem.

do the math.

second of all....they DIDN'T DO ANY FRICKING OUTREACH in the black community

(the anti-prop8 groups) - they just assumed black church people wouldn't be
receptive without at least TRYING first.


lastly - like bill maher said - the problem isn't black people - it's RELIGION.


Religion - once again - teaching mixed notions of God - false and true - and
inspiring people to bigotry. so black people (and latino and white peoiple)
who voted for this bad proposition didn't see it as an equality issue but as
some type of moral, religious issue and voted accordingly.


I'm a black man - east coast - and I'm against this proposition.

I'm FOR - FULL EQUALITY - FOR EVERYONE.

people want to get married and full rights - YES - GO FOR IT. we ALL need to FIGHT
for that. the same sex marriage ban is JUST THE SAME as the INTERRACIAL marriage ban.


unfortunately - it's gonna take consistent OUTREACH to show, teach and convince
everyone of this fact.

[cooolandrew]

19. The fundamental factor is it was the mormon church that put it on the ballot and spread >

misinformation to churches black and white saying they were obliged to do gay ceremonies when ceremonies can be done secular.