Obama @ Saddleback Church - The Middle Class, Rich & Taxes

[rjx]

Run time: 03:05 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NulWGXPDP0   Posted on YouTube: August 17, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: August 17, 2008 By DU Member: rjx Views on DU: 1594

 
Senator Obama discusses what it means to be rich in the U.S. and how taxes should affect us accordingly.

[WCGreen]

1. Why the fuck should a minister ask anyone how to define who is rich....

Fuck this guy...

[Glorfindel]

2. He shouldn't - Jesus did that a long time ago

Luke 18:18-23

<18> A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

<19> "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good -- except God alone. <20> You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.'"

<21> "All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.

<22> When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

<23> When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.

<24> Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! <25> Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

[cameozalaznick]

5. The Eye Of The Needle...

was one of the gates in old Jeruselum. It was thin and short and shaped like an eye of a needle, hence the name. Camels in those days were pack animals. In order to pass through that particular gate, they were forced to remove the stuff from the camel's back. That scripture is about attachments to material things. JC was all about non-attachment and letting go of the material. Because to him the material was immaterial. Hah!

[iamjoy]

3. Cut Him Some Slack

Rick Warren is very influential, and we shouldn't assume evangelicals are solely interested in the wedge issues Republicans use to manipulate them. Indeed, taxes is a moral issue. The way I see it, Warren was giving Obama an opportunity (which Obama took, albeit subtly) to explain his tax policy. We want schools and roads, we have to pay for them somehow. This was also a way to counter the McSame lies that Obama will raise taxes on the middle class.

Nope, I have no problem with this. I am tired of discussions of moral issues focusing on abortion and homosexuality. I am glad Warren is trying to broaden the debate.

[WCGreen]

4. In that case, I guess you are correct.

But these preachers live outside the tax laws, get huge allowances for living expenses and pay little to no expense out of pocket. I was shocked when I was on the board of my church and discovered that a minister for a 500 or so congregation was given a compensation package of, when all tolled, about $175k. And most of it was tax free. It's a sham WOW...

And then they give cover to people who act ruthlessly in the market place by allowing them to tithe their way into the heart of god. If RW is different, then I stand corrected. But to me, most of these entrepreneurial preachers are living and enjoying the abundant life without contributing all that much to the greater good through taxes.