Howard Dean Takes on the Sexist Media

[susankh4]

Run time: 02:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_HdSZR9UR8   Posted on YouTube: June 02, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 02, 2008 By DU Member: susankh4 Views on DU: 4601

 
Talks about how deep the wounds in the party are, when they are inflicted because of gender.

Good point, Howard!

[leftofcool]

1. So why not do this months ago?

[susankh4]

3. It's a good question you ask.

And I am quite disaapointed in out DNC chair when I imagine the possible answers.

Let the pandering to "Hillary's women" begin. :puke:

[katerinasmommy]

26. Hey folks,

It's time to face reality. Was there sexism in this campaign? Of course. Is there racism in this campaign? Of course. But Hillary Clinton did NOT lose this because of sexism. Both Obama and Clinton have supporters that vote for him because they are sexist, or because they are black, and she has supporters that vote for her because they think it's a woman's "turn" or because they are racist. In the end, however, I think the majority of voters voted for the candidate that they preferred. Hillary Clinton a year ago was inevitable. She only STOPPED being that when Obama, whom most people dismissed, started winning. The Clinton campaign thought they didn't need the caucus or smaller states and when they realized it was an issue it was too late to do anything about it. Sorry, but she lost this in part because of arrogance and incompetence. Someday there will be a woman president but it will be one that doesn't think she's owed.

[qijackie]

28. These kind of arguements have been used for decades - no more valid now than before.

[katerinasmommy]

31. lol no they haven't

There's never been a situation like this before, not ever, much to this country's shame.

[qijackie]

33. Plenty of situations where sexism and racism has been huge factors

in who gets the "promotion" or the job or the money or the property or the jail sentence or whatever is at stake.

[katerinasmommy]

38. Not comparable

I can't think of a single time that a black man and a woman were up for tbe same job and had to campaign for it among millions of people of differing backgrounds. Possible exception MA but I suspect (without having much knowledge) that Patrick won because MA is at heart Democratic, and it was a Democratic year anyway.

[qijackie]

40. Politics isn't the only battlefield. However, I do think that the approaches that

Senator Clinton took and Senator Obama took are very reflective of the historical approaches of the classical female views of a good candidate for a job and the classical male views. That is, women believe that getting ahead requires doing a good job in the position they are in and showing that they can do a good job in the position they wish to obtain. Men believe that getting ahead requires being very good at getting ahead.... its a different set of skills. And it is as prevelent in the regular workplace today as it has always been. It is exactly what is taught in graduate business school - getting ahead is a skill.

The arguments of "not THIS woman" and the methods of attack used to convince everyone that THIS woman is just not quite the right one are as old as the hills. Just as the methods of attack that have been and will continue to be used against Senator Obama because he is a black male are as old as the hills. This kind of nasty propaganda and endless personal attacks are very, very necessary when the two competitors are virtually twins in their political positions.

[DWilliamsamh]

43. In addition to your theory being unsupported and sexist, you are wrong by your own measure.

Obama has held elected office for twice as long as Hillary clinton and actually authored important legislation, and gotten it passed even in hostile environments. And understanding teh requiremnets or "get ahead" is an important part of getting ahead, despite what you might think. Hillary Clinton hasn't done those things. These facts have nothing to do with race or sex.

[qijackie]

47. I'm completely not interested in the ongoing hysteria on this forum

that tries to prove either is "better" than the other. What's the point in all of the yapping about it repeatedly? You aren't going to change my mind nor I yours. In fact, if there is anything people seem to have totally in common is the irrational belief that they are right in whatever position they assume. Certainly most everyone on this forum seems genuinely convinced they are right (and yes I include myself).... I think DU is a small window on the odd goings on of the human mind.

[DWilliamsamh]

51. I would just think that as an intelligent person, you might like to not be so

intellectually dishonest as to frame something in sexist terms you ostensibly decry, not to mention demonstrably incorrect.

That would seem to indicate that your argument is not actually based on objective reasoning. As such you are impervious to facts and you are correct, you mind will not be changed. You are also correct that ultimately it doesn't matter. Obama is our nominee. The only question is whether you will vote for him, and encourage others to do so. From the posts I've read it seems a good bet you won't. I say that because you do a LOT of bad mouthing of the DNC Howard Dean and Obama. I hope I am wrong.

[qijackie]

54. Your viewpoint is only that.... as is mine.

[heliarc]

77. I haven't seen much "hysteria" here at all.

And I'm surprised to hear you use the term "hysteria" as an accusation, given its misogynist undertones.

You started the name-calling, and leveled claims you refuse to back up with evidence. You've fired off mean-spirited cut-downs against people who to me seem very reasonable. "Hysteria" was originally a term used to describe only women who were unreasonable, when in fact Men were clearly using medicine and diagnostics to subjugate and control women. Well, you aren't really hysterical because that diagnosis has long since been discarded as discriminatory. You're just being plain unreasonable.

I am an example of someone whose mind was changed in this race. I was a Hillary supporter before Obama in my humble opinion won not only the vote, but the ongoing debate. He ran a thoughtful campaign where I think Hillary ran a very trite and mean-spirited one. Obama spoke to issues, and Clinton attempted to appeal to the fear and hate of a susceptible electorate.

If you didn't see it that way, well, I respect your choice. I'm sorry that the campaign didn't end the way you had hoped. I hoped that Hillary would rise to the occasion as well.

[katerinasmommy]

52. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

When I say "not this woman", that's exactly what I mean. I've been waiting for the right woman all my life, because I AM a sexist and I think that women on the whole are better at management than men are, and I think we'd do it better. I know a lot of RWers, however, and NOTHING would energize them more than Hillary Clinton. Jesus Christ himself could be on their ticket and it would still be her candidacy that was the prime motivator. And that isn't just about sexism either. They hate her for various reasons. Lastly, I've said, her campaign has been incompetent and arrogant. I don't like what that would portend for a Hillary Clinton WH. "Not this woman" for sure.

[NashVegas]

60. "Not THIS Woman"

I've been trying to explain how sexist / gender divisive this line is, and how it's an attack on ALL women, but no one else seems to get it.

[katerinasmommy]

61. I DO get it

I understand what you mean. I just think that at times, everyone, including women and certainly myself, can be overly sensitive. The only reason I use the phrase "not this woman" is because so many women seem to be going for her purely because she IS a woman. It also reflects my heartfelt deep desire to see a woman as President of the United States someday. I have a little daughter. I want her to know she can be whatever she wants to be (outside of being a first grade student. I don't wanna let her go!). But I don't feel that depends on a Hillary Clinton candidacy. Hillary Clinton is a bad candidate, as a woman or a human being.

[qijackie]

64. I think that most of us choose to support the person or platform or whatever we

are supporting because we come to decide that our selection best represents ourselves in some significant manner. Many of us will differ in what parts we choose as significant. Maybe because a person represents our gender or our color or our religion or our economic theories or whatever it is - we try to find what calls to us. And we are heavily influenced, I believe, by our programming, by our friends, by our socioeconmic state, by our state of consciousness if you will... by so many things. But I think we then move toward identifying with our selections. So when others say truly ugly things about our selections, it is internalized as ugly attacks upon ourselves. So I think we really have to be very careful to remember that people overall are going to think that if you tell them their preferred selection is blah, blah, blah, evil, blah, blah, blah.... then they won't like it much. And for sure are not going to say.... oh yes, you're right.

[NashVegas]

71. That's a Large Part of It

Most of us think we have pretty good judgment. "... but not THAT woman," is having someone standing next to you, saying, "no you don't, and I know much better than you." It's incredibly patronizing. When you combine that with the drive for Sebelius a couple of weeks ago, it also plays into the stereotype that guys think women are interchangeable, and that we may have the vote, but it's really *their* decision, and again, we're just little children.

"No dear you can't have that one." "But I want this one." "It's very lovely, but it's not the right one. I'll tell you when it's the right one."

It all contributes to revealing the farce of primaries. When you think about it, and think about how Barack was promoted, "The one," again smacks of patriarchy.

Even as a Hillary Clinton supporter, there's one irony I can appreciate: CW has it that Wes Clark was brought into the 2004 cycle specifically to stop Howard Dean at the behest of the Clintons, to keep 2008 open for Hillary. If that's true, well, this is karma, isn't it?

[rocktivity]

39. Acutally, since the DNC is supposed to remain neutral until a nominee is chosen

I'm not sure he should have done it at all.

:headbang:
rocknation

[underpants]

41. Dean is being nice and making a public stand for Hillary

they don't like each other much but this is literally the least he could do

[qijackie]

2. Way too little - way too late.

[susankh4]

4. Oh, but he has to make sure we come back tot he fold, doncha know....

:puke:

[qijackie]

5. I'm afraid he has to do quite a lot better than this.

[susankh4]

7. Totally agree!

I think he is underestimating the rift.

[gaspee]

9. I'm not

Coming back in the fold. End of story.

[qijackie]

13. Its really a tough one. The D party is so far from being the party I would like

like it to be and has been for decades. This just seems like the last straw - even to the concept of voting for the lesser of two evils. I think we've all been held hostage to that idea to an extremely damaging extent - damaging to the country and to ourselves as humans that want a better world for all beings, not just for the 1% who've owned and controlled the resources for centuries.

[gaspee]

21. Agreed

I'm a socialist at heart and so far to the left of most dems it's not even funny.

Obama is the same flavor as Clinton, not some "savior" -- I'm am so fed up with the bullshit and lies about Clinton and the campaign run by the Obama surrogates - including the sexism, that I will not vote for him.

And because our stupid system is two party, without many choices, we're stuck having to choose the one who won't fuck us over too badly.

The problem is that I will not make a choice this time. Screw that. Obama or McCain? Bad or worse? I'm sick of having to make that choice.

I'm voting none of the above for president. But living in a state where the vote will go 80/20 dem vs rep, I can make the choice to sit it out. What about all the people who feel the same way I do and who live in states that matter?

[qijackie]

23. I don't know. For some years I've been moving to the place of voting only for

the Democratic female candidates in all elections. I am just so tired of the male faces and voices and posturing. Not to say the females don't posture as well but it is at least a change from the oh so predictable and intensely boring male bs. I'd love to have a serious far left very tough female. But that is not going to happen.

[odelisk8]

25. so

you only are going to vote for female candidates and you are calling out Dean on SEXISM? YOU are a sexist if you are making your voting decisions based on gender...whether FOR women or against them...I voted for Hillary in 2000 as my Seantor because I thought she was the best candidate for the job...now I think she is NOT the best candidate for the job...but I think in terms of CANDIDATES, not female or male candidates...check yourself....

[qijackie]

30. Unashamedly sexist - you bet 'cha. Although I do make exceptions for

Republican woman or for women I personally think are not working for the good of all.

[AlbertCat]

62. What about all the people who feel the same way I do and who live in states that matter?

GROW UP...and vote for the "best" candidate that is offered.... like an adult.

[qijackie]

65. I assume you mean us to emulate you?

[gaspee]

74. And yet another

Newbie with an attitude problem heard from.

[madfloridian]

14. What the hell? Don't come back....vote for McCain.

Go ahead. Stop the threats and start campaigning for him.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NM Independent]

67. It's a numbers game.

A no vote is the same as adding a vote for McCain.

I don't care where you live, or how big the gap will be. IMO, if you know jack shit about the world in this day and age, then that is a vile, and treasonous attitude. You appartently don't give a rats ass about your country and would gladly see it die.

Asswipe.

To: qijackie
NO! Hillary is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to be the first woman president. So says nearly every woman I've spoken to when asked why they wouldn't vote for her. My wife thinks that just her campaign has set the womens movement back a good 10 years, at least. This is NOT a sexist attitude, women are afraid of being let down and made to look bad. If she were to get in there and screw it up, it would be a LONG damn time before another woman got a shot at it. That's why ~90% of Blacks vote for Obama, they have faith in him aren't afraid of being let down.

[qijackie]

69. I hear you - but there ar at least 17 million people who disagree with you. I am one.

[Vote4Change]

34. I Second That

Dang! If that doesn't sum it up for me.

I am so sick and tired of you alleged "Hillary supporters" who are coming across more every day as "Hillary Insurgents". Your candidate lost, fair and square, as a result of her own lies (er, excuse me ... misstatements), as a result of a completely incompetent campaign staff, as a result of poor (or complete lack of) planning, as a result of following the Republican model of negative campaigning. Nobody to blame but herself!

And if you would all rather vote for George W. McLame ... GO RIGHT AHEAD, PLEASE! Just vote for him and take your posts to the "republicanunderground.com" forums instead of here. You are obviously as undemocratic as they come so what on earth are you doing masquerading as Democrats? So go vote for McLame...

Go vote for overturning Rowe vs. Wade.
Go vote for a 100 year occupation of Iraq.
Go vote for bombing Iran.
Go vote for your children not having health insurance.
Go vote for your children not having a decent education.
Go vote for your children being sent to die in some hell-hole, oil-rich country.
Go vote for the rich getting richer at the expense of the poor.
Go vote for permanent tax breaks for millionaires.
Go vote for $10/gallon gasoline.
Go vote for the "Government of the Corporations, by the Corporations and for the Corporations."

Or, for just as long as it takes to cast your vote, pretend you actually have a brain and vote for the Democratic nominee in November.

[qijackie]

36. I quote John Bradshaw... "Your suffering is ordinary."

[DWilliamsamh]

44. Then Vote for McCain, and be responsible for his SCOTUS appointments.

Not to mention his turning Iraq into another hundred years war. I have no problem with you taking your marbles and going home.

[heliarc]

68. How could dean have come out with this castigation sooner

without appearing biased towards the Clinton Campaign? There was a lot of racism too. Outright blatant racism... dog whistles about Barack's "as far as I know" Christianity and the like. Perhaps he should have mentioned racism, and sexism both, but I think his restraint is exactly the lack of bias he should be showing.

[qijackie]

6. I don't believe he gives a damn - he's just trying to point the "blame" for the

sexism at the media and not at the DNC. The sly machinations of the also very guilty.

[susankh4]

8. Good point.

[tabatha]

12. What sexism by the DNC?

[DWilliamsamh]

46. Please post examples and links of Sexism by the DNC.

If you have no facts to support that implication STFU.

[qijackie]

48. Do your own research - its not my job.

[DWilliamsamh]

49. It is customary when one levels a charge that one back it up.

Congratulations, you have adopted the Conservative method of argument. Have a great time with it, but be careful, side effects include blackening of the heard and the brain tends to get pudding-soft.

[qijackie]

50. I think you have me confused with someone who cares about your opinion.

[DWilliamsamh]

53. No in any way, shape or form.

I suffer no delusion that I will get through to you, or that anyone can. The writing at this point is for others so they see you for what you are: a Republican in Democratic clothing.

[qijackie]

55. See me cowering in fear.

[DWilliamsamh]

56. Have a wonderful evening.

[qijackie]

58. Thanks. And you, as well.

[heliarc]

76. Well done. nt

[DWilliamsamh]

79. Thanks. (N/T)

[tabatha]

10. But Ferraro is wrong.

Obama was never sexist.

[susankh4]

18. That is a matter of opinion and perspective.

I don't think he meant to be....

But, the road to hell is paved with "meant tos" (good intentions.)

[tabatha]

24. Please provide one "perspective"?

[qijackie]

29. This isn't/wasn't a discussion about Ferraro.

[tabatha]

35. Agreed.

It is about how Obama was sexist.

I have yet to see an example.

[qijackie]

37. Not about that either.

[madfloridian]

11. He's pandering to the Clintons...it's what chairmen do.

Sadly.

[susankh4]

16. Begging, you mean.

Begging the Clintons.

Pandering to me. I saw it coming....

[madfloridian]

17. What is wrong with you? Do you want Democrats to lose?

.

[susankh4]

I want all of my local Democrats...

Run time: 02:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_HdSZR9UR8   Posted on YouTube: June 02, 2008 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: June 02, 2008 By DU Member: susankh4 Views on DU: 4601

 
to maintain the offices I have already helped them win.

[susankh4]

19. I want all of my local Democrats...

to maintain the offices I have already helped them win.

[qijackie]

20. I highly doubt our discussion of Dean, the DNC, & the D party in general is going to give McCain

the election.

[susankh4]

22. No it won't.... if Obama is "all that"

as they seem to think he is.

[odelisk8]

27. who's THEY?

you mean the Democratic Party?
yeah...THEY do...
not you though...

[qijackie]

32. Why are you trying to pick the same old fight? Give it a rest, please.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

42. Please clarify something:

Is it your contention that opposition to Hillary Clinton as the Democratic Nominee=sexism?

Thanks in advance.

[qijackie]

45. I believe that a great deal of "opposition" to Senator Clinton is due to

institutionalized sexism. Is it only that? I doubt it. I believe that a greal deal of "opposition" to Senator Obama is institutionalized racism. Is it only that? I doubt it.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

59. Well, I would not argue...

That sexism and racism are not infesting this society as a whole and thatboth have not been in ploay during these primaries. On the other hand, I have a feeling that the overall amount of it is considerably different from the amount being reported by supporters of either candidate.

Do I mean sound the "all clear" and drop our guards on both subjects? Of course not. Vigilance against both is always indicated. But if they both were so pivotal, as some would have us believe, John Edwards would be the presumptive nominee.

Within the valid arguments and instances of both points lurks a lot of chimeras as well.

[qijackie]

63. Clearly there is less than in the past (not sure how to date that!) or we

wouldn't have either Senator Clinton or Senator Obama to attack or defend!! But there is a long, long way to go. Either of the two will greatly assist the slow move toward more equality. The trouble is, our candidates are only testing the waters of the Democratic party members and boy that hasn't been very pretty. They've both got lots of guts.

[Alameda]

57. Gender has nothing to do with it....it's Hillary herself

and all by herself she has undermined her own credibility.

I'm exactly her demographic, and I thought very seriously about her, but watching her antics was a turn off. She had a chance, she blew it. She is an embarrassment to females IMHO.

[raystorm7]

66. Aint that the truth. Sums up the very obvious. Enough said

[heliarc]

70. Her appearance commending McCain early in the Primary,

and lending the GOP candidate more weight than Obama really put me in the Obama Column. I was a Hillary supporter until she did that. And then Obama won me over on almost every decision... his speech after the Rev. Wright debacle sealed the deal. I have not heard that kind of brilliant argument in the Political discourse in my lifetime until he proved that it could be done. His response was about inequality and discrimination, and I have yet to hear something as reasoned and intelligent come out of the Clinton Campaign.

I am disappointed by her for sure. She was my choice in the beginning, but Obama proved the stronger character.

[Alameda]

73. so sad, really. I think she has let us down and

done a disservice for women in general. First of all she said FL and MI wouldn't count, she wouldn't campaign there...then she did. If that wasn't enough she kept on whining to get the delegates counted....then she wants ALL of them? How dare she compliment McCain at Obama's expense...in fact ALL of our expense. Then the Geraldine Ferrara comments that she didn't disown. I hate women like that. I'm very very disappointed in her.

She did it to herself. If she has so much fight in her, why didn't she stand up about the war, the Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act....Roberts, Alito...Gonzales? I could go on....but...

[heliarc]

75. So much fight... so little reason, right?

I would have been one of her supporters. She lost me.

[eagertolearn]

78. Ditto....plus when she was asked whether she thought Obama was muslim

and she responded "I don't believe so". Then saying she would have left the church if she were Obama. Then "Obliterate Iran" was a real shocker. Sexism was when she and her husband started playing the poor me I'm being pushed out of this primary for no reason (Bill really poored this on the last few weeks). Then to top it off to blame Florida and Michigan problems on Obama.....

[heliarc]

80. To be fair, her direct quote when asked

"You don't believe that he's a muslim do you"

She said:

"No, No why would I. There's nothing to base that on, as far as I know"

The "as far as I know" is the most offensive part of the statement. Perhaps she wasn't intending it to be offensive, but it functioned to encourage the imaginations of fearful Christian democrats in a lot of the electorate. People in West Virginia were convinced weeks later that somehow he is hiding his true faith and misleading us.

When asked she should have said... what would be the harm if he really were a muslim, even though he isn't? Many Americans are Muslim, and they deserve to be respected just as highly as Americans of any other faith.

But she was silent in that regard. She was deafeningly silent on that point. I'm guessing muslim-americans aren't too happy about that.

[Quixote1818]

72. Ferraro must be very embarrassed and hate herself. Not to mention feel like a fool

When you make a fool out of yourself people usually go on the attack to take the spotlight off themselves. The fact that she continues to say such bullshit shows that she really hates herself but she is not mature enough to deal with her problems and apologize for such a HUGE blunder. I have lost all respect for her.