Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Jane Fonda's message to DU about how to stop the war:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:09 PM
Original message
Jane Fonda's message to DU about how to stop the war:
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 10:10 PM by Seabiscuit
1. Massive - that is, MASSIVE - demonstrations in the streets - especially in D.C.

2. Write LETTERS to your congresspersons and senators - look, people, e-mails are easy to delete. Imagine you're a congresswoman in 1974 and you get several large bagsfull of letters every day dumped in your office. If you live in 1974, you're one of those congresswomen who begged Jane Fonda to call off her "troops" because you "got the message" and you're going to change your vote.

That's what Jane Fonda said yesterday on Air America.

She also said that the current Bushista line is nothing more than the old Reagan line: that Vietnam was lost because of a bunch of lefty congressmen and a bunch of leftie demonstrators, and that Jane Fonda is a traitor.

They're all a pack of lies.

Except that those of us who filled the streets, especially in Washington D.C. brought the Vietnam war to an end because we also wrote LETTERS and convinced our Congressmen to quit financing the war. It can be done again, but NOT by deletable e-mails. Or just phone calls. Send traditional LETTERS and bury their offices with bags of letters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
1.  I like it, fill the streets.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We did it in the sixties
We did it every chance we got. We stood vigils in the night, in the rain, in the snow. We marched. We sang. We had teach-ins, where people who knew what was going on instructed those who wanted to learn.

We marched and sang and never never never backed down.

We never shut up.

We changed the world.

Now, it's time for the younger generation to do it. We're backing them up, but it's their fight now. We did it for them, made them safe, and now they've got to do it for their next generation.

Never stop.

Never yield.

NEVER NEVER NEVER shut up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. We also impeached Nixon.
With humongous demonstrations in the streets of Washington, D.C. the days after the "Saturday Night Massacre" and forced Congress to begin the impeachment investigation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. YES!
Remember?

"Dick Nixon Before He Dicks Us"?

Sam Ervin, Pete Rodino, Howard Baker - where will we find their equals today? That's my fear, but rats deserting sinking ships have a way of finding God.

And there are the November elections.

I was at the OEB the night of the Saturday Night Massacre, with a friend who was a Nixon advisor. Can you believe that? He was later murdered (they said suicide, but I know he didn't do that) because he was just about to come out and speak against the Iraqi invasion a couple of years ago. His name was Gus Weiss. I loved him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PublicWrath Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Gus Weiss I just looked up. Did you know about the other "jumper"?
John J. Kokal? Nov. 2003
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. I didn't know him,
but I heard about it.

They were murdered.

Gus was such a good, good man.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
74. Omg, I just looked him up the other day because of a thread on
the 'suicide' of John J. Kokal who worked for the NIE. Gus Weiss and John Kokal supposedly commit 'suicide' in November, 2003. Both in the same month!! Kokal's boss was outspoken against the lies being told about the pre-war intelligence.

I can't believe you knew him. He seems to have been a great man. It was hard to find out anything about his death, other than he was found near the Watergate complex! We didn't believe he commit suicide either, or John J. Kokal!

The coincidence of the timing, the NIE giving the Bush regime a hard time about their lies, the investigation ongoing! And then later in Nov. Gus Weiss, another critic of their lies! From what I read he had spoken out about them.

I'm so sorry about his death, OLL. I wonder if these deaths, and a few others, might be the reason why everyone was so scared to speak out!! I hope they get justice! What awful times we live in ~ :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
78. We Had a Free Press and a Two-Party System in Those Days
and the Constitution was more than a scrap of paper :cry:

Republicans were even willing to cross party lines to vote for impeachment
when it was clear what Nixon had done.

Bush has admitted to perhaps 10,000 Watergates.
So what does the Rethuglican Congress do?
Propose new laws to legalize Watergating.
:grr:
:cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Even Nixon was inspired to meet with some protesters
How times have changed. Do you remember when Nixon went to the Lincoln Memorial late at night to a group of protesters assembled there, and, however awkwardly, attempted to discuss his policies and motives with them? It was a surreal moment, as people remember, but the fact that it happened at all is quite remarkable and courageous. No chance of anything like that happening these days.

Nixon had many tragic flaws, but his presidency towers over that of monkey boy. Monkey Boy is terrified of encountering any person who is not a fawning sycophant -- whether it be average American citizens, or even the Parliament of our closest ally, Britain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. True
I think Nixon tried talking football with them - but Nixon was Asperger's Syndrome writ large, I'm convinced.

Fuckface is just Fuckface - a murderous, delusional, megalomaniacal monster - and needs to be introduced to the finer points of how the Khmer Rouge operated during what is known over there as the "American War" - summary execution.

Efficient. Gotta love them KR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Yikes, I forgot about that
Well at least he had the guts to face them and risk the unpredictable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Yes, Nixon, unlike, Bush, had *some* personal courage.
He actually woke up and meandered on his own to the Lincoln Memorial in the dead of night to talk to a crowd of young antiwar protesters.

That has never happened and will never happen with the Bushista regime.

Different times.

Different needs.

Same methods:

1. MASSIVE DEMONSTRATIONS

2. DELUGE YOUR SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN/WOMEN WITH LETTERS, NOT E-MAILS.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
75. Yes, this was after Nixon refered to
protesters in the derogatory 'mobs in the streets'. Ratty little SOB.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Amen.....
I've been screeching for the past few years that keyboards and comfortable chairs are not where the revolution takes place. Emails are rubbish, and worthless - just like those online "petitions" that are nonsense and wastes of time.

Bodies in the streets, people's voices lifted up in unending screams for justice, right, liberty, law.

Noise. Commotion. Disruption.

Energy.

NOT sitting at a keyboard. NOT comfortable in your home, office, cubicle, whatever.

OUT THERE. Refusing to be quiet. Refusing to go quietly. Refusing to shut up.

Refuse, refuse, refuse, and NEVER YIELD.

Letters. They're just emails cut and pasted, printed on good paper, with an enveope and a real signature (that matters A LOT), and one lousy stamp. They pile up. Emails don't.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yo, Oldleftie - love hearing from you
As fellow old leftie lawyers we have a moral obligation to educate the youngin's here.

1. Massive Demonstrations
2. Write Letters (SNAIL MAIL - NOT E-MAIL)

BIG DIFFERENCE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. BODIES IN THE STREETS!
That's it. People are lazy and are getting what they're deserving because they can't understand that they've got to get OFF THEIR ASSES and out into the streets.

It's that primitive, and it's that POWERFUL.

Good to be back, Seabiscuit. Life's been batting this OldLeftie around, but she's back now, more pissed off than ever.

BODIES IN THE STREETS, SIGNATURES ON THE LETTERS, ADDRESSES ON THE TOP, and A STAMP THAT GETS IT THERE, INTO A STAFFER'S HOT LITTLE HAND.

Amen, brother. Good to see you...........
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yo, Leftie, I love you.
Not personally, ya' know, but, well, in a 60's kinda way.

I know you know what I mean.

Glad to see you're back and kicking and screaming again.

We both knew what it was like with Nixon and Vietnam.

And we both know the headache of the Bush nightmare and the ineffective opposition.

Just another call for action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. It's always about peace and love, Seabiscuit,
and I love you, too, my brother.

We know, and we're now the elders, here to tell the youngsters what it is.

Amen, indeed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. Damnit, you're right.
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 11:30 PM by Gregorian
We did do that before the invasion of Iraq. But I suppose the dynamics weren't the same. They were going. Now they've gone.

And as for Senator Sam, I see him every time I look at Conyers.

We shall overcome! Again.






Edit- TO THE STEETS!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #50
68. Yes, we were in the streets before the Iraq invasion, but
by the time of the invasion, after six months of administration and media lies, 80+% wanted to go to war, falsely believing Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack.

We were the 20%.

Now we're the 65%.

We can end this insane war. All it takes is MAILING LETTERS to all the congressmen/senators. And DEMONSTRATING IN THE STREETS like we never have before.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #68
81. American News Media Ignored Us, so Most People Never Knew We Were There
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 03:19 AM by AndyTiedye
Foreign press was there, so we at least were able to
let the rest of the world know that we didn't approve,
and we could at least see for ourselves that we were not alone
in our belief that the war was a terrible mistake,
but most Americans didn't even know there WAS a protest movement.

Ever since Bush*'s 1st inauguration, when his limo was pelted with eggs,
he has demanded that demonstrators be kept far, far, away from him,
and out of the eye of the television cameras as well.

New restrictions have been put in place to keep demonstrations
far away from him -- out of sight and out of mind.

We have "free speech zones" to keep them free of hearing our speech.

Even walking along a public road in Crawford, Texas is now a crime.

Even that most traditional means of political expression,
writing to ones' Congressperson, has been circumscribed by
an anthrax scare that at times has caused all constituent
mail to Congress to be delayed for months -- long after the
issue in question had been decided.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #81
111. Email/letters
Having been around in the 60s and still here, I've seen
methods evolve. We are well served to adapt new methods to get
our message out. Email piles up also. Paper mail takes trees
and can just as easily end up in the trash. The impact of
thousands of emails can not be easily ignored. 
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #111
137. Welcome to DU!!!
Thousands of SNAIL mail was sent to Michael Powell when he was determined to change the FCC ownership rulings. 60 Minutes showed us the room it was in....NOT ONE was opened!

Jane didn't have to work during VietNam,tell me how people leave their jobs for a week. WHOM is going to pay for the gas across the country??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Terran1212 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
123. I want to do that so badly, but..
I live in a very rich and white suburban area (my parents are immigrants, probably only reason I'm not like the rest here) that would look at anyone like that as a loony. Not that they already don't think of me as that, but...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #123
150. If you're an American citizen,
then you have a right, an obligation, and a duty to write to your elected representatives and tell them what is on your mind.

If you are young, I can understand your reluctance.

But, when you yield so easily the rights and responsibilities of your citizenship, then you are doing more harm than good and you are - worse, much worse - being untrue to yourself.

Write the letters. Be the good citizen you are. Help to make America what it is supposed to be, and do your part to take back our country from these murderous thieves and tyrants.

Oh, and fuck your neighbors.

You should see where I live ................
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Just an aside...
Ms Fonda is correct about having mass protests, but gee -- haven't there already been MASSIVE protests all over the country? She might not be aware of them because none of the networks carry them -- they are played down or are ignored. C-Span is the only place you might see such a protest. The networks didn't even carry the protest march in New York -- as massive as it was -- during the Nazi rally whoops I meant the RNC convention.

On the other hand, the Terri Schiavo Must Live protests -- which were maybe a few dozen people -- got oodles of airtime daily for a couple of weeks. And the recent immigrant protest marches have also gotten a lot of attention. But the anti war anti Bush protests have been as big or bigger -- and are ignored. Outrageous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Not like the old days
The demonstrations haven't been anything nearly like what they were in the sixties. The big one that took place in DC back last year was marred by people with too many loopy agendae and bad, bad poetry. It lacked focus, and it made NO NOISE.

You see what I'm saying here?

I'm talking raging, raving madmen and madwomen out there in the streets, never surrendering, never shutting up, not just marching nicely and sauntering along. I'm talking about MAYHEM!

That's all that's going to get anyone's attention. Mayhem. Disorder. Disruption. NEVER YIELDING.

NOISE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Thanks for the tip
I am grateful for your sharing your experiences! Those were the days....

Gee -- you guys not only shut down the war but ended segregation. Bravo, my friend!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. I'm proud to say
that I got hosed down in Montgomery, Alabama in my tender teen years, with SNCC, trying to get Negroes registered to vote - you know, according to American law.

My trash cans have always been named "The Bull Connors."

We did good, but we had great backup in the JFK/LBJ Justice Departments, don't forget. LBJ took the Civil Rights Act that had come from JFK, and ran with it. That's part of why I can never really hate him all the way through for what he did in Vietnam. He did really well with his political capital for civil rights, and he was a Southerner. A big man, in many ways.

You start yelling, child, and we'll be right behind you, with the cough drops.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Can I have a hug?
:hug: You're a doll, and I am so proud of your stance and accomplishments. Also love your posts too -- I look forward to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Thanks, honey
We can't even stop fighting, even in the turmoil of these past awful six years. We cannot ever yield, even when we get tired.

Instead of a hug, how's about a nice cold one with a scaryass pussycat?



Thanks............ :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. I'll drink to that!
Love it!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
147. Aha! So that's what's been happening to my beer every night! (EOM)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Yes. Exactly. MAYHEM. NEVER YIELDING MAYHEM. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
33. Even Nixon got pissed seeing all those damn protestors outside his window
makes sense, especially with Rove busy playing election fixer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Rove
I'm thinking "Gulag."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. Plan. Strategerize.
The protests in the 60s didn't "just happen," they were planned for maximum effect. Where. When. How.

We need to be doing that kind of planning again, and my suggestion is, we work out an agenda: the SHUT IT DOWN agenda. We pick a different target every few weeks, and mobilize massive body counts there, just massive, and whatever the target is, we

SHUT

IT

DOWN.

We shut it down with the sheer weight of numbers of bodies in the streets, on the sidewalks, around the entrances/exits, approaches, etc., and the sheer weight of people on cell phones and computers e-mailing and phoning to jam their servers and their phone lines. We

SHUT

IT

DOWN.

The first target (I suggest the offices of the Washington Post) we shut down for two or three hours, then disperse. The next target, for four or five hours. Each one a bit longer. By the time we get to Wall Street, we're ready to

SHUT

IT

DOWN

for a whole day.

It would require massive civil disobedience, lots of people willing to get arrested. And we would have to train people again, the way we did back then, HOW to get arrested. Going limp. Being passive. Unthreatening, but unmoving. Make them pick you up and carry you, but don't provoke them when they do. No name-calling (t-shirts with pithy slogans OK, though, of course) no evil looks, etc. Have lawyers on standby for seeing fair play when massive numbers are arrested and hauled away on buses. And as each bus leaves, from the surrounding streets, for every body they put on a bus and hauled away, three more replace it.

SHUT

IT

DOWN.

No one goes in, no one comes out, unless they're willing to walk on the carpet of bodies... young people, little old ladies like me, families all sitting quietly together, etc.

Phone lines jammed.

Servers jammed.

No business done there, at that target, for the duration of the action. Move from small targets to bigger ones. Finally shut down something that REALLY matters... like Halliburton corporate HQ, or Wall Street itself, or hell, the Pentagon. Want to REALLY shut down DC for a day? Let half a million bodies pour onto the commuter routes just before rush hour.

SHUT

IT

DOWN.

When they realize that we, the people, can shut it down, they'll FINALLY figure out that we're awake, and watching, and paying attention.

suggestively,
Bright
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Like it. MORE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
115. May 1st is a call for a General Strike by the Labor Movement
We absolutely need to bring the Labor Movement vis a vis Union members and Non-Union members (working class and the poor working class) AND STUDENTS across the nation together - as well as us old lefties from the fifties and sixties -- en masse together into the streets of the capitals all across this nation - but May 1st is a call for a General Strike and we need to come together on this one day as a rallying cry to end to the occupation and saber rattling of nuclear strikes against Iran and military strikes against Venezuela or any other sovereign nation as well as calling for socio-economic justice and equality for all of humanity whether immigrants from Mexico, or Palestinian people or Iraqis etc..

Shutting the System down on May 1st by way of a General Strike and marches in the street... we have to at least come together on that day...

Tonight chuckle-nuts is doing a stay over in exclusive retreat in Napa which is near my community ..we have a massive protest demo planned for his arrival though it is severely challenged with gestapo like state police and secret service.. don't know if this info is out there in the msm.. i've been otherwise occupied and have not tuned into to television or corporate press.

Mark your calendar and plan to take part in General Strike on May 1st!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LuckyLib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
125. Love it! I'm always told I think too grandly about what mass
protest can do. This is way bigger than I'd ever imagine. Where do I sign up?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. From Abbie Hoffman's "Steal This Book"...
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 11:47 PM by Gman
Demonstrations

Demonstrations always will be an important form of protest. The structure can vary from a rally or teach-in to a massive civil disobedience such as the confronting of the warmakers at the Pentagon or a smoke-in. A demonstration is different from other forms of warfare because it invites people other than those planning the action via publicity to participate. It also is basically non-violent in nature. A complete understanding of the use of media is necessary to create the publicity needed to get the word out. Numbers of people are only one of the many factors in an effective demonstration. The timing, choice of target and tactics to be employed are equally important. There have been demonstrations of 400,000 that are hardly remembered and demonstrations of a few dozen that were remarkably effective. Often the critical element involved is the theater. Those who say a demonstration should be concerned with education rather than theater don't understand either and will never organize a successful demonstration, or for that matter, a successful revolution. Publicity includes everything from buttons and leaflets to press conferences. You should be in touch with the best artists you can locate to design the visual props. Posters can be silk screened very cheaply and people can be taught to do it in a very short time. Buttons have to be purchased. The cheapest are those printed directly on the metal. The paint rubs off after a while, but they are ideal for mass demonstrations. You can print 10,000 for about $250.00. Leaflets, like posters, should be well designed.

One way of getting publicity is to negotiate with the city for permits. Again, this raises political questions, but there is not doubt one reason for engaging in permit discussions is for added publicity.

The date, time and place of the demonstration all have to be chosen with skill. Know the projected weather reports. Pick a time and day of the week that are convenient to most people. Make sure the place itself adds some meaning to the message. Don't have a demonstration just because that's the way it's always been done. It is only one type of weapon and should be used as such. On the other hand, don't dismiss demonstrations because they have always turned out boring. You and your group can plan a demonstration within the demonstration more accurately. Also don't tend to dismiss demonstrations outright because the repression is too great. During World War II the Danes held street demonstrations against the Nazis who occupied their country. Even today there are public demonstrations against the Vietnam War in downtown Saigon. Repression is there, but overestimating it is more a tactical blunder than the reverse. None the less, it's wise to go to all demonstrations prepared for a vamping by the pigs.

DRESS

Most vamping is accompanied by clubbing, rough shoving and dragging, gassing and occasional buckshot or rifle fire. The clothing you wear should offer you the best protection possible, yet be light weight enough to allow you to be highly mobile. CS and CN are by far the most commonly employed tear gas dispersibles. Occasionally they are combined with pepper gas to give better results. Pepper gas is a nerve irritant that affects exposed areas of the skin. Clothing that is tight fitting and covers as much of the body surface as possible is advisable. This also offers some protection if you are dragged along the ground. Gloves come in handy as protection and if you want to pick up gas canisters and throw them back at the pigs or chuck them through a store window.

Your shoes should be high sneakers for running or boots for kicking. Hiking boots sold in army surplus stores serve both purposes and are your best selection for street action. Men should wear a jock strap or protective cup. Rib guards can be purchased for about $6.00 at any sporting goods store. Shoulder pads and leg pads are also available, but unless you expect heavy fighting and are used to wearing this clumsy street armor, you'll be better off without it.

HELMETS

Everyone should have a helmet. Your head sticks out above the swarming crowd and dents like a tin can. Protect it! The type of helmet you get depends on what you can afford and how often you'll be using it. The cheapest helmet available is a heavy steel tank model. This one is good because it offers ear protection and has a built-in suspension system to absorb the blow. It is also bullet proof. It's disadvantages are that it only comes in large sizes and is the heaviest thing you'll ever have on your head. It costs about $3.00. For $5.00 you can get a Civil Defense helmet made for officers. It's much lighter, but doesn't offer protection for the ears. It has a good suspension system. If you get this model, paint it a dark color before using it and you'll be less conspicuous. Our fashion consultants suggest anarchy black.

Construction helmets or "hard hats" run between $8.00 and $10.00, depending on the type of suspension system and material used. They are good for women because they are extremely lightweight. The aluminum ones dent if struck repeatedly and the fiberglass type can crack. Also they offer no ear protection. If you prefer one of these you should find a way to attach a chin or neck strap so you won't lose it while you run. If you get a hard hat, make sure you remove the hard head before you take it home.

Probably the all-around good deal for the money is the standard M-1 Army issue helmet. These vary in quality and price, depending on age and condition. They run from $2.00 to $10.00. Make sure the one you get has a liner with webbing that fits well or is adjustable and has a chin strap. Their main disadvantage is that they are bulky and heavy.

The snappiest demonstrators use the familiar motorcycle crash helmet. They are the highest in price, running from $10.00 to as high as $40.00. Being made of fiberglass, they are extremely lightweight. They have a heavy-duty strap built in and they can be gotten to fit quite snugly around the head. They offer excellent ear protection. The foam rubber insulation is better than a webbing system, and will certainly cushion most blows. Being made of fiberglass, a few have been known to crack under repeated blows, but that is extremely rare. Most come with plastic face guards that offer a little added protection. Get only those with removable ones since you might want to make use of a gas mask.

GAS MASKS

Ski goggles or the face visor on a crash helmet will protect against Mace but will offer no protection against the chemical warfare gasses being increasingly used by pigs to dispose crowds. For this protection you'll need a gasmask. All the masks discussed give ideal protection against the gasses mentioned in the chart if used properly. If you do not have a gas mask, you should at least get a supply of surgical masks from a hospital supply store and a plastic bag filled with water and a cloth.

The familiar World War II Army gas mask with the filter in a long nose unit sells new (which is the only way gas masks can be sold) for about $5.00. Its disadvantages are that it doesn't cover the whole face, is easy to grab and pull off and the awkwardly placed filter makes running difficult. The Officer Civil Defense unit sells for the same price and overcomes the disadvantages of the World War II Army model. Most National Guard units use this type of mask. It offers full face protection, is lightweight and the filter canister is conveniently located. Also the adjustable straps make for a nice tight fit. The U.S.A. Protective Field Combat Mask M9A1 offers the same type protection as the OCD, but costs twice as much. Its advantage is that you can get new filter canisters when the chemicals in the one you are using becomes ineffective. New filters cost about $1.50. When you buy a mask, be sure and inquire if the filter has replacements. To get maximum efficiency out of a mask it needs an active chemical filter.

The U.S. Navy ND Mark IV Mask is the most effective gas mask available. It has replaceable filter canisters and fits snugly to the head. It costs about $12.00. Its disadvantage is its dual tube filter system, which is somewhat bulky. Fix it so the canister rests on the back of your needs. It's more difficult to grab and easier to run.

When you get your gas mask home, try it out to get the feeling of using it. Make sure the fit is good and snug. Purchase an anti-fog cloth for 25 cents where you got the mask. Wipe the inside of the eye pieces before wearing to prevent the glasses from clouding. Another good reason for wearing a mask is that it offers anonymity. Helmets, gas masks and a host of other valuable equipment are available at any large Army-Navy surplus store. Kaufman's Surplus and Arms, Inc., 623 Broadway, New York, N.Y. 10012 is very well stocked. For 75 cents you can get their catalogue and order through the mail. It's in New York though and probably more expensive than a store in your locale. The surplus stores buy from wholesale distributors themselves, who in turn buy directly from the military. If you know a soldier or someone who is married to a soldier, they have access to the Post Dispensary or PX and can get all sorts of stuff at nothing prices. For 20 cents you can get an invaluable pamphlet from the Government Printing Office called How to Buy Surplus Personal Property. It has a complete list of regional surplus wholesalers. The closest one in the Northeast is the Naval Supply Center, Building 652, U.S. Naval Base, Philadelphia, Pa. and in Northern California, the Naval Supply Center, Building 502, Oakland, California. You can order by mail or in person and the prices are very low, even though it isn't as good as the stuff our brothers and sisters in the Viet Cong rip-off.

More at http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/abbi...

---------------------------------

This was published in 1971 so these prices aren't going to be exactly accurate today.

Note to mods: Yes, this is more than the standard 2 or 3 paragraphs. But understand that this is from Abbie Hoffman who would probably would have wanted us to steal the entire book and post it here. In fact, I feel real confident he'd be pissed if we didn't. But I'll leave that for a later time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #48
55. Hey thanks, man
I remember this book from my youth but do not possess a copy. What you have presented here is valuable pragmatic advise for those who wish to dissent from the wacky government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. Gotta bookmark this thread
You have provided much valuable information, and on behalf of activists of DU, there is much gratitude owed to you for taking the trouble to distribute information from one of the most effective agents of antiwar protest.

PEACE!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #55
71. I still have a shredded paperback I stole back in '71.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
139. if you can't use a gas mask
In most Canadian cities, and I expect south of the border too, it's illegal to wear a face cover in public.
When there are demonstrations, police will begin by asking protesters to remove the mask, then they'll try to confiscate it. If things get the least bit hairy, they target the ones with masks first -- gas masks, balaclavas, etc.

A good protection against tear gas (not pepper spray or any of the others, though) is a scarf or bandana soaked in vinegar.
You can breath with relatively little discomfort for long enough to get away from the yellow fog.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #48
148. That's one of my favs
Link:
http://cyberatlantis.com/library/e-books/Abbie_Hoffman/...

here's another ....

<snip>

2. Combatant-Propagandist Guerrillas

In order to obtain the maximum results from the psychological operations in
guerrilla warfare, every combatant should be as highly motivated to carry out
propaganda face to face as he is a combatant. This means that the individual
political awareness of the guerrilla of the reason for his struggle will be
as acute as his ability to fight.

Such a political awareness and motivation is obtained through the dynamic of
groups and self-criticism, as a standard method of instruction for the
guerrilla training and operations. Group discussions raise the spirit and
improve the unity of thought of the guerrilla training and operations. Group
discussions raise the spirit and improve the unity of thought of the guerrilla
squads and exercise social pressure on the weak members to carry out a better
role in future training or in combative action. Self-criticism is in terms of
one's contribution or defects in his contribution to the cause, to the
movement, the struggle, etc.; and gives a positive individual commitment to the
mission of the group.

<snip>

From: 'Psychological Operations In Guerrilla Warfare' (The CIA's Nicaragua Manual)
http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
79. Noooo! Candle light midnight marches!
that's what we did...got tremendous press locally and you know who was there taking photos.

The silence of people marching with candles...was so poignant.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PublicWrath Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Maybe we can choose a place to hold a protest where we can't be
overlooked by the media? I'm ready to show up with a sign. I've been aching to show up with a sign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Recommend. This is the way, whether you like her or not. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. We had MILLIONS in the streets before bushs blunder
They ignored MILLIONS.

I think the only way to get their attention is to get in their wallets and take their profits. How do you do that? There are ways. Maybe a million folks in the streets could do it by zeroing in on the businesses who profit from wars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I do not think the media will ignore the protestors as much as they did
before.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Very good point. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. Youre probably correct. I really hope so.
Especially with the poll numbers now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
41. I agree
It's okay to be furious with Bush these days. Hell -- Chuck Hagel might join the parade!

It's so obvious even our press can't ignore it ha ha.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. Postcards...with Two Words "IMPEACH BUSH"
bags and bags of postcards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Not just postcards, but actual LETTERS. STAMPS. ENVELOPES!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #22
70. I thought since anthrax letters took weeks
to get through their postal system. Faxes just spew out into the room.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
149. I thought since anthrax threat too
that is why I liked the postcards idea. Simple.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OldLeftieLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. NO! NO! NO!
That's the equivalent of emails. Not personal enough.

WRITE. You're smart, you're informed, and you're articulate.

WRITE LETTERS. Say what's in your mind and in your heart.

Sign your name. Place your address and the date at the top of the letter.

Use a stamp.

Mail the letter.

Use nice paper and envelopes.

MAKE PEOPLE HANDLE YOUR MAIL!!!! It's all about HANDS-ON!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the USPS equivalent of BODIES IN THE STREETS, SCREAMING, DEMANDING, NEVER BACKING DOWN.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. YES! THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF JANE FONDA'S MESSAGE!
Plus, of course, more bodies in the streets - MANY MORE, YES, MUCHO, MAS, MANY BODIES IN THE STREETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make it impossible for the press to ignore us!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
25. Look people, if you want to stop the war...
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 10:51 PM by Seabiscuit
click on the "recommend" button and kick this to the top - get Jane Fonda's message the attention it deserves.

It's not about MY post - it's about ENDING THE WAR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. k and n
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Thanks, rodeodance.
Another 30 or 40 like you and maybe DU will stand up and pay attention.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
117. K & R
After all, if you want to stop the war you have to sing loud and stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. Latino's seem to have no probs with protesting, doing something right
or simply more united for their cause??!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Aren't the Latinos an inspiration?
Look at the attention they got in just a week or so. Imagine if we all did them better by ten times.

We just might end the killing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
110. Latino's got organized quick - Nixon got pissed seeing protestors outside
the Oval Office windows, something has to give, This guy Bush is no leader, he's in for big biz and money and falls back on pathetic statements like he's the decider?!! -- Bush will bring this country to its knee's.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. You can bet some powerful people were trembling in their shiny shoes
when they saw the masses of Latinos in the streets, too!!

THAT got their attention, and gave them a big healthy taste of the FEAR that they've been dishing out to us for way too long, using it to control us, to cow us!

I'm a "senior citizen" now and too disabled to even walk more than a few steps; but when I saw those sincere, intent Latinos venting their anger and making their cause known in a big way, I felt like jumping up and down on top of some cars or something! My heart literally SANG, I tell ya, it was a GREAT FEELING!

And it reminded me that this dangerous, precarious position we are in as a nation should be provoking the same kind of angry, loud, chanting, singing, shouting PROTESTS from us all right now!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
43. Come on, people, spread the message - only 13 K&R's so far.
Hit the "recommend" button and tell your friends to do the same.

This isn't about a thread.

This is about saving lives and ending war.

Let's bump this up about 60-70 times and get some attention and maybe, just maybe, we'll get people to WRITE LETTERS, and end the war!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #43
65. Wow. 27 votes and counting!
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 12:36 AM by Seabiscuit
Let's spread Jane's message!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. Great idea. A simple letter with just three words:
End The War. That's our message, don't bog it down with any other message, just end the war. three words, typed, painted, or hand written. Pure and simple.




Sign and send.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Yes. Indeed. It's simple. END THE WAR.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. for those staffers with a short attention span.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
47. I AM SO GLAD TO SEE THIS SAID AND SEE THIS THREAD!!
My first ever (on DU) all caps sentence, and with good reason for this cause!!

I can't express strongly enough just how invigorated I felt to read Seabiscuit's and OldLeftieLawyer's hardhitting posts -- a conversation filled with FIRE like we felt it in those "bad old days" of the Vietnam War.

I'm adding my two cents' worth to theirs because I did some protesting in those times too ... though not as much as I wish I'd done. My hardest battle then was with my parents in my own home. My dad was a career State Trooper and abusive, a molester who thrived on intimidation; I was pregnant by a soldier headed for Vietnam in 1968, we were not married and I had nowhere to go, no choice but to stay with my parents.

My father made life HELL for me, but I survived it. We fought fiercely almost daily, usually when the evening news was on and the scenes of protesters in the streets made my dad raving mad and gave me HOPE that we really could change things -- we really were having an effect, we were forcing some policy changes, compelling our Congressional Reps, Senators, and those residing in the White House to take fucking notice of our outrage and our ire over a senseless war.

That goddamn war seemed to just sneak up on us, without the warning we had about Iraq. Before we knew it, we were almost accustomed to seeing that war in our living rooms on the nightly news every single goddamn day, as we ate supper on our TV trays. Many of our fellow Americans were accepting death tolls as high as 500 per WEEK, mind you, not total, not in a year, but 500 dead American soldiers every WEEK!

I couldn't bear it, and I protested even when I was pregnant. I risked getting thrown out of the house by doing that, but I felt my child's future in this country was at stake, and I wanted to FIGHT for that future!

BODIES IN THE STREETS IN HUGE NUMBERS and LETTERS BY THE TON, HARD COPIES WITH OUR NAMES SIGNED ... it seems the only way to really get their attention in D.C. where the only game in town for politicians is to pad their own cushy, mean little lives with ever more money and power and to stay in their jobs as long as we'll let them. THEY NEED A WAKE UP CALL THEY CANNOT IGNORE!

Remember: THEY WILL NOT CHANGE COURSE UNTIL WE FORCE THEM TO CHANGE COURSE!!

We cannot do that with email campaigns and Internet petitions! We need to use the Internet as a great tool and ORGANIZE HERE but then GET OUT THERE and show how important this is to us!

Otherwise, American citizens had better be prepared to hear death tolls of our soldiers up to 500 a WEEK again, mark my words....






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Thank you! Thank you! I'm sure Oldleftielawyer feels the same.
She and I are like two peas in a pod - born of the 60's revolutions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
52. THREE WORDS: DEMONSTRATE + SNAIL MAIL!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Singular73 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
53. Im sorry, but Im not gonna hitch my star to Jane Fonda
Frikken fruitcake.

Only because someone agrees with your position doesn't mean they are an ally.

I wish democrats considered that axiom a bit more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. WTF???
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 11:42 PM by Seabiscuit
Do you even know the meaning of the word "fruitcake"?

"I wish democrats...." - you mean you see "democrats" as 'other people'????

Oboy - we've attracted a "live one", folks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. She admitted she has too much "baggage" to lead this fight.
Edited on Thu Apr-20-06 11:45 PM by Radio_Lady
Also, she's 68 years old. She admitted her stupidity during the Vietnam War and also asked forgiveness for her mistakes and for not being a good mother to her daughter Vanessa.

She has passed the torch to Cindy Sheehan and others. (All of these are from Larry King's show this week and from her book, "My Life So Far".)

Singular73, that's enough for me. She's OK in my (unwritten) book. She's in the last part of her life -- as I am. Asking forgiveness -- and giving it -- to her clearly imperfect parents and herself -- makes her a big winner in my eyes. I don't know how old you are, but perhaps you might come to the same conclusion when you reach that mark.

In peace,

Radio_Lady



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #57
63. I like your message, but
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 12:09 AM by Seabiscuit
I heard her actually speaking on Air America and she did *not* "admit her "stupidity" during the Vietnam War. She pointed out specifically how since the Reagan era the big lie about her was that she was "unpatriotic" and "a traitor".

Look, she came out some time ago about that picture of her poised on an anti-aircraft battery, pointing out that she was suddenly ushered onto it withhout explanation and bingo, pictures were taken, and spread around. It was not her intent to pretend that she was shooting down American planes, as the "Hanoi Jane" photo opportunists have pretended all these years. It was just a mistake that she was inadvertantly sucked into.

None of which has ever realistically detracted from her anti-war messages.

Give Jane Fonda the break she deserves.

If Cindy Sheehan wasn't around, I'd welcome the likes of Jane Fonda and Joan Baez any day. I grew up knowing them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #63
88. I did not hear the Air America interview. Just what she said on LK.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #63
102. Good message, bad messenger
Here is a photo of Fonda, sitting on a seat of one of the North Vietnamese guns that were used to shoot down American planes. She is wearing a helmet belonging to a member of the NVA gun crew.



You can't un-ring a bell. This picture is burned into the memories of millions of Americans. Neocons have this and other photos that were taken during her trip to Hanoi and they use them effectively to weaken arguments against war and to defame, by association, those of us who dare set them forth.

The important thing here is, there are some who will reject our message of peace if her name is associated with it. There are other messengers we should use. We should move on.

If you think it is more important to be understanding or forgiving to Jane Fonda than it is to be effective in our quest for peace, then I wish you would reconsider your priorities.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #102
108. She did nothing for which she needs to be forgiven. nt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #102
140. Repeat: Jane Fonda has taken herself out of the fray.
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 09:35 PM by Radio_Lady
She is still very anti-war, but will not be the right-wing's punching bag any more.

Source is Larry King's interview with her.

She was born in 1937, not yesterday. She admits the photo was a stupidity on her part. I am certainly NOT trying to reject the message of peace. Are you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #140
144. No, I am not rejecting the message of peace, Radio Lady
I'm an old hippie, and I think peace is still a good idea. I promote this notion whenever I can.

:hippie:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #144
158. I was too old to be a hippie when it was fashionable (born in 1939)
but I'm a few years younger than Ms. Fonda. I have been against ALL wars (even those that other people supported). While on the air in Boston in the 1970s, I always closed my radio show with a peace message -- and still do on Oregon Public Broadcasting.

Of course, I remember that photo. Larry King showed it on the recent program he did with Jane Fonda. However, I know it does not represent Jane Fonda's image at this time, nor should it. Usually, only the right wing crones bring it up. I don't think that Jane supported the wrong side in the Vietnam War, do you? Or was there a wrong side?

Lasher, I'd like to add that pretty much anyone can do stupid things while young -- and maybe even when older. I certainly did, didn't you? Glad they don't have photos of me doing those things.

In peace,

Radio_Lady





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #57
84. That baggage is RW smear
As far as i am concerned she made no mistakes during the Vietnam war
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #84
120. I wouldn't say she made no mistakes
But compared to the "Best and the Brightest" who got us into that war... and the president who sacrificed this country's last progressive social agenda to escalate that war... and the president whose "secret plan" to end that war involved keeping us there another four years AND destroying the rest of Indochina... I don't think they amount to much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #120
141. Interesting post. Thanks for your view point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:31 AM
Response to Reply #84
154. Really? I lost a lot in The Nam.

Innoncence, youth, dreams, friends - almost my life.

Did she bust some caps from that AAA?

What she did was not 'right-wing' propaganda.

What she did was to say to those of us who had our asses on the line because YOU “The People” sent us to the horror that was Viet Nam was that she supported those who were killing and maiming us; that she would happily squeeze the trigger herself.

Viet Nam was wrong. Iraq is wrong. Iran, or Syria, will be wrong.

But YOU sent us. YOU sent us in the name of America.

You cannot then sit and smirk when some spoiled, rich, movie actress wants to kill us for a little free publicity.

She should still be in a prison.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. ugh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #53
73. No one asked you to.
She wasn't volunteering to tow your star.

She's simply reminding a generation of TV babies - who simply can't know better - that wearing ribbons, sending e-mails, and voting in online polls isn't going to accomplish shit.

The vacuum of leadership on the left has produced what could be described, in the kindest way, as anemic results.

Besides, you can always learn good tactics from an enemy, if that's what you've decided to consider Fonda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #53
82. only because you say so doesn't mean she's a fruitcake
She is an important asset for the peace movement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #53
103. Yeah standing up against the rightwing death machine
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 12:26 PM by Warren Stupidity
35 years ago was a seriously stupid mistake. Right. The mistake we made was sitting back down again. Here we are, 35 years later with essentially the same gang of criminals (next generation of course) back in power doing their thing, only this time they have learned their lessons and done their homework. Have we?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #53
129. this comment is pure right wing hate bile - and i do mean pure hate bile
the rush lintball hate cult in this country suceeds in fomenting their hate bile which is full of lies and bullshit propaganda on right wing hate radio and media - and where this demonization of Jane Fonda originates, should not be accepted and passed off here on du as free speech "opinion" - it certainly isn't original - and it is pure hate speech bile.

so eff off on all those who use this board to promote the right wing boot licker mantras and most especially their hate bile ... may you all spend eternal damnation where the sun never shines... :nuke:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #53
145. No...
You're buying into that old media bought propaganda. Please, don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
58. one more little kickeroo from an old hippie
who got gassed in Berkely and SF more than once

hell I even managed to get myself arrested over Gulf War I :shrug:

and I just thought of a lovely way to use the complimentary stationary in the hotel I'll be in tomorrow

and every one can afford a stamp or two, I think every week when I send out the bills I'll send a little love note to my elected "representatives"

:hippie:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-20-06 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. BINGO! Imagine 50 million people like you in hotels writing letters on
hotel stationery!

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
64. Massive demonstrations in D.C. are just what I've been saying
are needed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Combine that with massive *MAILINGS* and you've got
an ANTI-WAR movement.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
67. Nominated and kicked. Great post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Thank you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
72. If you agree with this message, please "recommend" it.
That's one of the best ways to get attention to important topics in DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Random_Australian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
76. K&R!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
77. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
80. the most impactful written communications to Congress are . . .
hand-written letters . . . individually typed and signed letters are next . . .

most everything else is considered the product of some campaign or other and is generally dismissed . . . they may do a count, but that's all . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skyblue Donating Member (724 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
83. We already had Massive demonstrations.
And I still see the support our troop ribbons tho' the ribbons could be kind of ambiguous as to an individual's stance. Tell people about Uncovered: The Truth; and talk to other individuals one by one. Shout and you may not be heard or taken seriously. And keep blogging away at it, and give money to organizations who sponsor smart tv ads regarding this issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
85. K & R. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
watercolors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
86. I was one of those
marching in the streets in the 60"s. I can't figure out why we aren't now! I'm 72 now, marching is difficult, but I do write letters constanly and make phone calls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
87. Jane Fonda can kiss my butt.
If she really wanted to help the peace effort, she should shut up. Yes, she has the right to speak out against the war - but she hurts the movement more than she helps.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #87
94. Thanks for swallowing the rightwing meme and spitting it back out.
Here is a clue: Jane Fonda, despite the right wing terror campaign against her, has sold movies and workout tapes to millions and millions of americans, and gets her message out, and reaches right into the hearts of the suburban soccer mom demographic. That is why the right hates her. She is aware of her status and stays in the background, but she should not shut up. She should speak out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Seems to me
everyone should speak out against what's wrong. Be silent, because of a public perception?

Bah.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #94
106. You're kidding right?
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 12:50 PM by brainshrub
Have forgotten this already?



The RW doesn't hate her, Americans who don't like traitors hate her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. Let me guess: you are way to young to remember that war.
She was not a traitor. That war was even more foul than this war. And yes, the RW hates her. And as once again we fought a war without benefit of a declaration of war, Vietnam was not exactly an enemy for which aid could legally be considered treason. A mere technicality I'm sure, much better to keep catapulting the rightwing hate propaganda.

Since Americans, such as yourself, "who don't like traitors hate her" can you explain how movies like 'On Golden Pond', or even the recent 'Monster In Law' do so well while featuring this 'traitor'? I guess we have a lot of Americans who don't mind traitors at all living right here in the USA.

You really should consider where the 'Hanoi Jane' meme is coming from.

Next I suppose you think that Vietnam is somehow still holding POWs, 31 years after the war ended.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #106
119. She was demonstrating love and empathy with people we were annihilating
That is why "we" must forever hate her.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #119
122. She was being an elitist attention-whore.
Love and sympathy had nothing to do with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. Oh bullshit.
What an ignorant statement. She was born an elite with all the attention she ever wanted or desired. She put all of that on the line by taking a leading position against the war. Yes she should not have posed for that picture. Big Fucking Deal. We killed something like 1,000,000 or so vietnamese and people are still dying there every day from what we did to them. Did we commit all sorts of excesses and foolishness to try to end that awful war? You bet we did and all of it was justified by the extreme circumstances. Jane Fonda has nothing to apologize for, nor do I, nor do the millions of us who stood up and spoke out and did whatever we could.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #127
135. Imagine Paris Hilton going for a photo-op with Iraqi rebels.
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 08:23 PM by brainshrub
Because that's what Fonda was back then.

She wasn't comforting the sick, feeding the hungry or putting her body on the line like Rachel Corrie did. She was there for a photo op.

There is a line between opposing a war and siding with the enemy.

Fonda crossed that line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #135
155. Amen
The message is right – electrons don't move the world – but the messenger is wrong.

So, some people watch JF movies and this means she connects to the heartland of soccer-moms?

Hell, some people still think GFB is doing a heck of a job, and many of them ARE soccer-moms. This speaks more to the judgment of soccer-moms (who do not seem to mind that most of the world's soccer balls are made, as reported almost a decade ago in “Life”, by forced child-labor (no, not white kids, don't get upset)) than it does to the correctness of the actions of Fonda or Bush.

What Bush is doing is wrong.

What Fonda did was wrong.

She was not showing compassion, but disdain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #122
130. rush lintball hate bile on du and those who post that crap can kiss my ass
hate speech attacks against those such as Jane Fonda and Cindy Sheehan is the agenda of the fascists reichbot boot licking cult wing -- and anyone claiming to be a dem who doesn't fight against this crap right up front is just as dangerous as the fascists in power today, and you are not a patriot in my eyes..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #130
136. Can I take this statement:
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 08:46 PM by brainshrub
Can I take this statement:

and anyone claiming to be a dem who doesn't fight against this crap right up front is just as dangerous as the fascists in power today, and you are not a patriot in my eyes..


to mean: "You're either with us or against us" ???

ON EDIT: The Iraqi War is bigger than both of us.

There is a Vietnam vet who I care about very deeply who tears up every time he thinks of what Fonda did. This vet isn't a wing-nut either.

I support Fonda's right to speak her mind. But it is my personal opinion that she hurts the peace movement more than she helps because it was her ilk in the 60s that made it appear that people who opposed the Vietnam war were willing to give aid to the enemy.

If she wanted to help, she could donate money and help behind the scenes. Her voice brings up too many painful memories to be helpful.

Fonda must know this. She isn't an idiot. Therefore, I suspect that her desire for good PR has trumped her move than a genuine desire to help the peace movement.

ON EDIT II: Removed a photo and some personal information that was not relevant to this conversation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #136
152. Anyone who tears up every time he thinks of what Fonda did IS
a wing-nut.

And so are you.

Take it elsewhere, pal, and quit polluting my thread with your ignorant wingnut crap.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #130
156. Thoughtful

It is thoughtful discussion such this that sets DU apart from the RW boards where any disagreement is immediately attacked as lack of patriotism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #106
121. That Photo Makes Her a Traitor?
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 03:17 PM by stepnw1f
Wow.... you fell for it hardcore... keep drinking that right wing Koolaid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #87
128. that is close to what she said
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 05:56 PM by melissinha
she knows about her image, she said both in her interview with Rachel Maddow and with her interview on Charlie Rose with Barbara Walters that: she feels that her presence would detract from the message, she will not lead...HOWEVER she said that it needs to be done, which is true. I think that she mentioned massive protests because what we have put forth so far is not enough....

I think her message regarding letters was very important, the sheer volume of letters IS the letter. I agree emails can be deleted, though they can clog an email box which is good....


I've got an idea.. in the effort of not using more paper, we could reuse the backside of papers.... But if its only me and 10 of you it, won't make a difference....

I was thinking that maybe we should snail mail our reps and senators weekly.... We really need a massive coordinated campaign that would make our Reps beg for it to stop.... Particularly to the repukes.... every frikin week... thats on $20 a year in stamps.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
89. K & R.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
90. FAXES
It takes mail forever to get through security after the anthrax scare. Hand write, or print and hand sign, a letter and then fax it. If you want to you can also mail it after you fax it. But the faxes will get there quicker and are still physical letters on paper which can't be mass-deleted like e-mail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. I like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #90
132. plus it has the added benefit of using up THEIR resources, not yours.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
91. How about...
Set some dumpsters on fire...
Roll some cars over..
Throw some bricks..
Erect some office-furniture baracades...

ITS TIME TO GET REAL!!

I am willing to spend the $$ for stamps and evelopes and bury these spineless, pocket stuffers in Congress in MAIL.

MAIL WAR!! MAIL WAR!! MAIL WAR!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #91
104. How about we fill the streets with peaceful protests instead. eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
93. See you all in NYC next weekend?
I hope so.

I am also demonstrating almost every day Mon-Fri at rush hour in Ann Arbor. The trouble is getting more people to join us. We call ourselves 'A Thousand People a Day', so far the biggest group we've had is 20.

I'm in the streets. Where the hell is everyone else?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
95. And can we make those demonstrations FOCUSED?
On the DAMN ILLEGAL WAR WE'VE GOT AND THE ONE THEY WANT TO START?

Can all the issue groups put aside their pet issues until we've ended this mess?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #95
98. You mean, . . .
FOCUS: ACT NOW to STOP the WAR . . .

NOT FOCUS: and end racism

:popcorn:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #98
99. and free mumia and free palestine and free the minks and...
on and on and on as every left wing special interest group uses and abuses the folks who get up off their butts to protest the war by pushing their pet peeve down their throats. I'm sure all of those other causes are very worthy, but they are not quite of the urgency that the nuclear madmen in the white house are.

p.s. I think I've flipped a 180 on this issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #99
151. You're right, we have to remain focused.
All those other causes detracted from anti-Iraq war protests in the past, and I think that's one reason they eventually fizzled.

For those other groups, let them organize their own rallies. Damned if we need any more pilot fish while trying to bring down this administration and its dangerous policies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
97. I sent letters to my officials, got a reply from a DEMOCRAT..
and he basically went on about how evil Iran was, and all the bad things they were saying, and that the US is hoping that "diplomacy" will work. I didn't bother to respond to that bullshit form letter. If my official is not intelligent enough to remember that the Bush line about "hoping diplomacy works" with Iraq, then he's a hopeless cause. Amazing how the elected officials aren't as bright as the average citizens sometimes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #97
101. Where is the Dem opposition to bush's plan to bomb iran?
Most dems would say its okay-dokey with them... as long as the slaughter is done with "conventional weapons"... that will kill tens of thousands instead of millions (see how nice our govt can be? it shows such restraint)

They all say diplomacy first... but they all (bush and most dems) set up unreasonable take it or leave it demands.... then they bomb.

Remember, Iran has zero nukes. Zilch. Nada. None.

Israel has hundreds. Secret. it is an open secret, but it is secret. It has not signed the Non-proliferation treaty. It has proven to be a threat to their neighbors. When the u.s. supports this, it has no credibility.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
100. Don't forget the military resisters. They stopped the war!
Jane Fonda helped that movement, but it came from the ranks themselves.
Want to hear the real story?
See -- Sir, No Sir!

http://www.sirnosir.com /

Want to read about some current resisters?
http://tomjoad.org/WarHeroes.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stephinrome Donating Member (494 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
105. Please go to NYC for the march on April 29
There is no end to my nagging...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
109. In addition to demonstrations and tons of traditional letters, it is time
to call for a national strike. This should be planned voraciously and executed flawlessly. We need to shut this country down for one day--from sea to shining sea--to protest the arrogant and insane policies of the bush* government and our derelict Congress.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
112. Fonda's right, we need a massive walk on Washington, Nixon caved!
And with Rove being indicted shortly, Bushco numbers will go below Nixon's (25%) after Watergate broke)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #112
113. George won't be there. He'll make a trip.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. We need a NATIONAL Strike for one day--
Even though there are more people dissatisfied and unhappy with bush* and the current state of affairs, the puppet media still refuses to cover or report our side any more than it absolutely has to. Remember, they are owned lock, stock and tv station. We need demonstrations so big, so loud, so distracting that there is no way we can be snubbed. If we want to save our country, our civilization and our planet, it's time to get in people's faces.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. See My Post Up Thread --- General Strike planned for on May 1st.. eom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevietheman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
118. It's time to organize a CITIZENS' COUP.
Impeachment is too slow and the s**thead Republicans in Congress aren't lifting a finger to do that anyway. Before it's too late for our beloved republic, Bush needs to be physically removed from office.

We need to seriously organize major protests around the entire country.

Let's follow the Latino protest march model -- I call it the JUST DO IT model.

Our beloved country is threatened by a criminal junta that is seriously close to starting World War III.

It's up to us to stop them... physically... in their tracks.

We have to admit a sad thing: the levers of democracy are too weak to take these traitors down. The Criminal Bush Regime must be physically removed. The protesters in D.C. need to push up against the White House gates in a mass mob to actually threaten this P.O.S.

Enough said for now... I've just about had it, and this country really needs to ORGANIZE and PROTEST!!! It's now high time to get SERIOUS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
124. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #124
131. There, there. Feeling better now?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #131
134. lol (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
126. IT's amazing what real Christianity looks like :)
I know I bash organized religion, but if Christianity were to keep with its tenets, we would see more Jane Fondas and less James Dobsons....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
133. Imagine: If every DU'er mailed 10 letters to Congress the same week,
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 07:08 PM by Seabiscuit
each Senator or Congressperson would receive 1,648 letters demanding impeachment and an end to the war the same week.

If we all sent 10 letters per week for 52 weeks each of them would receive about 85,696 letters over the next year.

There are 435 members in the House of Representatives (well, 2 seats are empty right now - Tom Delay's seat and Duke Cunningham's seat).

There are 100 Senators.

That's 535 snail mail targets.

There are 88,167 enrolled DU members.

Do the math.

Tempting, isn't it?

Of course, it would be a logistical nightmare trying to assign targets to everyone for an even distribution, but so what.

10 letters would cost us each $3.90. $3.90 to stop the war. Now that's what I call a bargain.

Gasoline: $3.09 per gallon.
Postage: $3.90.
Ending the war: Priceless.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gordontron Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
138. please use recycled paper
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
142. So when are we going for it again?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
143. When is that NY Protest? Isn't it Days Away?
Anyone know?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
146. Kicked
k/n
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
153. Too important to let drop!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #153
157. Thank you - this thread is now 3 days old.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Mar 30th 2017, 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC