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"Concerned Christians" to rally against "myth" of church/state separation

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 02:43 AM
Original message
"Concerned Christians" to rally against "myth" of church/state separation
Side note: I get nervous anytime a group is "concerned".
===

(AgapePress) - Concerned Christians will gather in a Connecticut community on Tuesday for a rally to address the political, cultural, and religious impact of the so-called "separation of church and state."

The "Celebration of Freedom Rally" takes place in Danbury, which is where the phrase "separation of church and state" originated in a letter penned by President Thomas Jefferson in 1801 in response to Baptists' fear that the U.S. government was going to establish the Congregationalist Church as the official denomination of the new nation. Jefferson's reference stated that the government should have no say in the affairs of the church, and -- contrary to popular myth -- was never intended to keep God out of government.

Coach Dave Daubenmire is national director of Minutemen United and founder of Pass the Salt Ministries. He says the time has come to tear down the false wall of separation of church and state.

"In 1947 Hugo Black sowed that seed of separation of church and state. We are now picking the crop. The fruit has come due," Daubenmire explains. "We've seen what's happened when God has been removed from government. And we want to go fall on our face, repent, spend three hours downtown in Danbury, educating America, educating Connecticut on exactly what it was Thomas Jefferson meant."

http://www.christian.com/christiancom3.asp
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kowaii (Scary...)
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. I guess "...unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is
God's" doesn't mean anything to Christians?
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unschooler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. That graphic conveniently leaves out the 14th amendment.
Somewhere between Jefferson and Black, the, um, 14th amendment moved that wall one step to the left.



No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. Yeah, the article and "concerned christians" also forget that the wordings
of all State constitutions also effectively create a wall between the state government and religion.

so Connecticut Constitution reads:

"SEC. 3. The exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be free to all persons in the state; provided, that the right hereby declared and established, shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of licentiousness, or to justify practices inconsistent with the peace and safety of the state."

Discrimination means both positive or negative, ergo the state can't punish or reward any particular religion.

Many state Constitutions make this even clearer than Connecticut's, like my state of Illinois

"SECTION 3. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be guaranteed, and no person shall be denied any civil or political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State. No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any preference be given by law to any religious denomination or mode of worship."
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
3. Just what this snack mix of a country needs, right now.
More big, honkin' nuts.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. The American Taliban
soon to come to your neighborhood. I'd laugh at them personally.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. "And we want to go fall on our face" they said....
Be my guest.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. Get 'em out in the open. Let's get to know who the Christian-fascists a
I swear. I'll be happy to see them get a real persecution complex.
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LaBanty Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wouldn't it be more sporting
to just start feeding Fundies to the lions? I'm so sick of their religious crap I could puke. Let 'em do their thing in the catacombs someplace, but for crying out loud - keep it out of my face. A whinier group of pathetic bastards has yet to be witnessed.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Probably make them happier to be persecuted like that.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Will Lieberman be there? n/t
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. so many morons, so few thunderbolts....

It's not God that has been removed from government, it's their hokey little version of Him that has been.

As for the part about falling on their faces, that seems pretty predictable. They should seriously educate themselves about Section 1 of the 14th Amendment rather than prattle on about Tom Jefferson, though.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. yes, they wouldn't be happy with my version.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ya know,
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 04:51 AM by me b zola
Someitmes I think that we need to become two nations. People get to chose which "version" of the Constitution that they believe to be true and then become a member of that nation. One nation, the zealots, can read all of the religion that they want to into the founders & the Constitution. They can elect their government to reflect their "values" and beliefs.

The rest of us will get to live in the nation, that once and for all, respects the rule of law and the most widely accepted belief that we are indeed a secular nation in which a person is free to worship as they see fit, but their religion has no place in governance.

Both nations will be an exact replica of this one that has become two.

Make people consider what it is they are really advocating, and then not challange the government to which they have chosen to best represent them. Honnestly, I am more & more thinking that we should do this--it may be the only way to preserve the Constitution and this nation(s).


on edit: just because I can't spell, please don't send me to live with the zealots :)
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree
I've advocated for some time that the fundie wingnuts need to just go off somewhere and live in some world of their own. They can have a government where the Bible is the "law of the land" as they keep demanding, the Bible can be the textbook in their schools, there will be no "liberals" to push them around and make them be nice to people they don't like, they can pray (and make everyone else pray) out loud in public 24/7 if they want, their cash/public buildings/billboards/toilet stalls can all read IN GOD WE TRUST, and they can have public stonings of "sinners" for entertainment.

Let's just see how long their little society lasts.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Yeah, and we cut off all federal funds to them, too.
THEN let's see how long they last.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. But of course
If they aren't going to live by our laws, they certainly can't expect to get any of our funds. Let them fend for themselves. Gawd helps those who help themselves, the power of prayer and all that. :evilgrin:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yes, they won't pay taxes, they'll tithe
When there's not enough funding for roads, basic infrastructure, social security or medicade, they won't have to be concerned with any government programs, they can count on charitable contributions to pay private sector rip-off artists (halliburtin?) to do the work. Of course, when the funds aren't there no work will be done, no old people will get their medical care, people will be left to die in the streets (they can only give so much to charity).

As they crumble they can crawl back and asked to be taken back into the land of the rational, but first they would have to sign a proclamaton that religion has no place in government and they will no longer place such detrimental demands upon the good people the the Rational Nation.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Indeed
As I was saying in another post, the churches will be begging people to increase their tithes to more than 10% because costs will be outrageous when the government is not picking up the tab for all that it does now (like "faith based" charities). And what of roads, hospitals, police, fire-departments, etc.?


As they crumble they can crawl back and asked to be taken back into the land of the rational, but first they would have to sign a proclamaton that religion has no place in government and they will no longer place such detrimental demands upon the good people the the Rational Nation.

Damn straight! :applause:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. Shall we pose our idea on the greater DU?
Perhaps in the form of a poll. Are you curious to see the degree to which this idea would be embraced?

One set of Founders. One Constitution. Two nations.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I have to log off now, but feel free
I can vote on it when I'm back on again.

:thumbsup:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. I'm already working on it
It's been a good discussion. Thanks for letting me rant at ya for a little while :)
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. My thought began as you have long advocated
i was thinking that we need to send them somewhere where they could no longer harm the rest of the planet & humanity. But somewhere along the way I realized that if they were forced to commit to that type of government many may soon change their toon. But that's where they must--if they wish to live in our reality based nation--cease & dissist from insisting that their religous "values" and beliefs have a place in governance & law. The 20% or so left to live in the Zealot Nation will be on their knees without any "evil liberal boogeymen" to drum up all of their furvor. Let them knock themselves out with the absurdity that they wish to bestow on us--let them mire in it together.
'''
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I have no doubt
That many of them, after living in their religious "paradise" for a while would realize it was in fact a hell on Earth. When every little move they made was scrutinized by their neighbors and reported to the purity patrol, and nothing they did was private. When no matter what they did they were never Christian enough for the people down the street, who could pray twice as loud as them, and who had one more cross in their front yard. And when 10% tithes aren't enough to keep the megachurches running, but the people just can't afford to give anymore, but are shamed if they don't.....

They'll come running back, begging to be let back into their former homeland.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I don't see them being as happy /successful as the Amish - but then
the Amish always seemed to actually live their values - not beat everyone else over the head with them while doing the opposite like the fundies do.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The Amish are indeed a unique people
They live in a nearly independent community, and keep mostly to themselves other than necessary trips to purchase supplies. They never proselytize or bother others in any way, and (from what I know of them) only make contact with those outside their personal community when absolutely necessary. If only fundies could be so gracious.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. Ever heard of the Great Commission?
The zealots wouldn't be happy until they had converted the 'new' country, too.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. "Celebration of Freedom".... er....
isn't what they want, by tearing down the wall of separation, is to codify their particular slant on Christianity as laws to be forced upon by all others? Freedom? So Orwellian.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Yep. The "freedom" word is being used in the most bizarre ways lately
We have brought "freedom" to Iraq---they have no jobs, their cities are bombed out, they have fewer basic services, THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE DEAD OR ARE BEING TORTURED, and a civil war complete with ehtnic cleansing is bearing down on them-----but God bless them! They are FREE!

Repukes keep telling us that we need to give up some of our civil liberties so that we may remain a free nation--- :wtf: Terrorists could never take our freedom from us, only we can give it away--and we are. But God bless us! We are FREE!!!!!!

I don't think that I can stand anymore of this "freedom".


Orwell lives, and every day I die a little more.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
24. May they rot in the place they fear most! n/t
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mcscajun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. Something to carry on a poster in the counter-protest
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 07:04 AM by mcscajun
ARTICLE 11

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion, as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Treaty of Tripoli, UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED by the US Senate on June 7, 1797.
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
29. 'No law respecting an establishment of religion.'
These creeps should have to write that 500 times on a chalkboard.

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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. They should just fall on their face...
and not get up. There is no myth.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
32. What exactly *has* happened
now that we've supposedly removed God from government? I know this might get sarcastic answers but I can't figure out for the life of me how things have gone from bad to worse, as they say, because of religion and government.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
35. History shows what church control of state does. These people
are ignorant fools.
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cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
36. good luck doing that in Ct
New England aint the Bible belt....there is a natural New England reluctance to discuss religion in the public sphere... it's a cultural thing
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