Do Universal Health Care Plans have to be dopey out of the gate?

[Rose Siding]

The dem candidate for governor in CT has revealed his plan-

DeStefano released his $350 million proposal on the same day Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney signed into law a landmark bill designed to guarantee that virtually all Massachusetts residents have health insurance....

"Connecticut needs real leadership to make universal health care coverage a priority," he said. "An estimated 356,000 people in Connecticut _ including 71,000 children _ do not have the security of health insurance to allow them to obtain preventive care or cover their medical needs should they fall ill."

Woo Hoo. That's great. Huge problem. Fix it. Hurry. Then there's this:

DeStefano wants the consortium to re-examine all the state requirements for health insurance coverage and procedures, such as mandatory hospital stays for child birth and mastectomies. He said such mandates may have to be repealed to keep costs down and extend coverage to everyone.

The idea of removing a woman's body part on the fly is horrific enough. I don't even want to think about it.

The US ranks -wait for it- thirty sixth from the lowest infant mortality rate.
That's behind (worse than) Malta, Slovenia, Macau and, well, Europe.-

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Infant_Mortality_Rate_aall.htm
Portions of this site are based on public domain works from the U.S. Dept. of State and the CIA World Fact Book

The limited searches I've done suggest that infant mortality rates could be tied to the level of health care the mother receives after giving birth. Some women might choose to limit or even avoid a trip to the hospital. Swell: another manner of control over one's own health care. But when that isn't the choice, what's the real cost?

In Switzerland (ranking 2nd), maternity stays are one of the only exceptions to "cost sharing" in their plan. -That sounds like the entire hospital stay is free.-
http://www.ess-europe.de/en/switzerland.htm

A "normal" stay is 3 days.-
http://web.mit.edu/medical/spousesandpartners/feature2_1100.htm

The stay is 2-3 days in Cuba (in 34th place)
http://www.globalexchange.org/countries/americas/cuba/sustainable/natTradMedicine/nursecare061101.html

Ironically, Canada (in 22nd place) used a study by US pediatricians to pitch for hospital stays of at least 2 days, finding "Women who are discharged "involuntarily" are more likely to be dissatisfied and have more problems than women discharged voluntarily"
http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-02.htm

Are we completely unteachable on the issue of health care?

[tatertop]

1. 36th! I would have put us in 15th place. We are below Cuba I see.

[catmother]

2. it's sad to say but this country is falling behind on everything. our

health care is a mess -- our education system sucks. who would have ever thought that cuba would have better health care than the US.

i saw romney on hardball yesterday. he doesn't get it either. he said if a person is making under $30,000 a year it would cost them about $15.00 a week for health care. well that's $60.00 a month or more. i think that's a little high for a person in that category -- he didn't say anything about dependents.

i just checked out costa rica.

http://www.cocori.com/library/life/med1.htm

why can't we just learn from canada or germany or even a small latin american country?

BTW. when my son was born in 1961 i stayed in the hospital 6 days -- it was 5 if it was a girl -- 6 for a boy because of the circumcision.

[area51]

3. our healthcare system is broken.

Only the ultra-wealthy can get all the healthcare that they need.

We need for our tax dollars to be used wisely -- for universal healthcare. And lurking freepers: a healthy workforce is a more productive workforce, since you think you're all about productivity.

[Rose Siding]

5. Agreed, but it look like that's translating to cut-rate services for women

At least in the instance I noted. The very things that save money in the long run are threatened with the axe.

[OzarkDem]

4. Health insurance - lite

The latest fad in GOP "health care reform" plans. I'm surprised Dems are falling for it, I suppose they think voters aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Having health insurance doesn't mean you're going to get affordable health care.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

6. You mean, like, where they CALL it health insurance, but it doesn't

actually COVER anything?

[janx]

7. "infant mortality rates could be tied to the level of health care the moth

They could be, but this is a very limited way at looking at things. Some new moms are just fine after birth; others aren't.

Then there's that high C-section rate...

Lots of factors enter the equation.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

8. They all want to make it so frickin complicated. I have a solution to it

Expand Medicaid, make everyone eligible. basic health care for everyone. the program is already in place, no billions of dollars wasted to start a whole new program that everyone will have to learn the rules of.

Why do they make this so difficult?!

[sandnsea]

9. Infants need to stay in the hospital, not moms

That's the cause of the infant mortality rate, when infants stayed 5 days with the moms, they caught more infant disease and illness than they do now. That's what I've always read is a big problem with today's infant mortality rate.

[Rose Siding]

10. Where is that information available?

5 day stays haven't been standard (if they ever were) for over 20 years at least, so they couldn't be responsible for current rates. CW does say that moms and babies shouldn't be separated for long.

A newborn is a daunting challenge for someone who *hasn't* got a constricting uterus or an episiotomy or a torn perineum, for someone who isn't exhausted or getting a crash course in the actual practice of breast feeding.

Simple things like raising out of bed, or standing from a sitting position are difficult enough to be of concern. It takes a little while to regain one's sea legs. I still recognize my 2 day stay as a leg up, a chance not only to access and adjust to my own physical condition, but to mentally prepare -transitioning beyond the physical challenges of giving birth- and the support of the hospital staff was invaluable in learning what to do, what to expect, beyond anything in the books I had read. And a couple of good night's rest did wonders for my outlook.

Ideally there's plenty of help at home. The reality is often very different. It doesn't seem wise, in the long term, to divorce the mom's well-being from that of the child who depends on her.

[MissB]

11. I believe 5 day stays are standard for c-sections. (nt)

[Rose Siding]

12. Ah, thank you.

I see. Those moms stay longer because of their needs after surgery.

[sandnsea]

16. No

I did not have surgery. 3-5 day hospital stays was the norm in the 70's. 5-7 days was the norm for C-Sections. See #15, longer stays do benefit the baby.

[sandnsea]

15. But infant mortality is the issue

Taking the approach that the mom can somehow learn to diagnose sick babies in 3 days instead of 1 is just silly. Yet that's the direction many studies take. The mom's health isn't what particularly suffers from short hospital stays, the infant's health does. Staying longer gives professionals that responsibility, and they're the ones who should have it. Many states have passed 2 day minimum laws, so it would take a massive comparative study that is willing to actually look at 1 day vs 2 day vs even longer stays. But nurses who are responsible for newborn care believe their experience is clear, newborns need more professional attention.

"The mother would have just met the baby so she wouldn't know the difference if something was wrong, and hospitals were discharging newborns at only 24 to 48 hours of age. Most of the things that are going to be life-threatening for a baby are not going to show up until 72 hours."


http://www.minoritynurse.com/features/health/10-25-05e.html

[Toucano]

13. No one needs health insurance. Everyone needs health care.

These plans that mandate health insurance are nothing more than corporate welfare.

[area51]

14. Well said. (n/t)

[catmother]

17. i just heard on the news that parents may be able to keep their

children in their 20s on their insurance, because these kids are not established yet and if they paid for it on their own it would amount to $6 or $7,000 a year. :crazy: