What is Vincente Fox doing to help Mexicans find jobs?

[bleedingheart]

I ask this in all honesty.

Here in the US, whether you are a congressperson, senator, governor or president, one of the big issues is JOBS! They run TV ads promoting how many jobs they brought into their district, their state or the country.

So what does ole Fox do?

What is the state of the Mexican economy?
What is their tax structure like? Are the rich being taxed to death and unable to create more jobs (hey...this is the GOP method of job creation but I figured I should ask.)?

The only things I ever hear about Mexico is...great spot for vacation but it is corrupt beyond belief....so please enlighten me DUers!

[TomInTib]

1. Outsourcing. People, that is, not jobs.

[bleedingheart]

3. but in all honesty does Fox care? Doesn't he want to make

Mexico a place where Mexicans want to stay and make it better?

[TomInTib]

19. I have a good many friends in Mexican business and..

they were ecstatic (tears in their eyes kind of ecstatic)when Fox shoved aside PRI. The problem is, he was elected primarily because of public statements by George W. Bush supporting both Mexican business AND emigration (to the US).
In the run-up to Fox' election, Telemundo was full of clips of georgie promising amnesty for existing residents of the US coupled with a guest worker program.

These same people now feel betrayed by Fox. And the last thing a Mexican politician needs is a popular sense of betrayal.

Fox may be business-oriented over people-oriented, but you must keep in mind that if PRI takes the office back, our immigration rates will multiply exponentially. Once in, PRI will never again allow the country to get away from them.

[raccoon]

29. Are you kidding? Fox is probably as much concerned about

the non-rich Mexicans as Chimperor and his ilk are about the non-rich Americans.

[earthside]

2. Sending Mexicans to the U.S.!

Mexico Prefers to Export Its Poor, Not Uplift Them | George W. Grayson/Christian Science Monitor

EXCERPTS:

At the parleys this week with his US and Canadian counterparts in Cancun, Mexican President Vicente Fox will press for more opportunities for his countrymen north of the Rio Grande. Specifically, he will argue for additional visas for Mexicans to enter the United States and Canada, the expansion of guest-worker schemes, and the "regularization" of illegal immigrants who reside throughout the continent. ...

Such rhetoric would be more convincing if Mexican officials were making a good faith effort to uplift the 50 percent of their 106 million people who live in poverty. ...

Indeed, Mexico's leaders have turned hypocrisy from an art form into an exact science as they shirk their obligations to fellow citizens, while decrying efforts by the US senators and representatives to crack down on illegal immigration at the border and the workplace. ...

• Economic competition is constrained by the presence of inefficient, overstaffed state oil and electricity monopolies, as well as a small number of private corporations - closely linked to government big shots - that control telecommunications, television, food processing, transportation, construction, and cement. Politicians who talk about, much less propose, trust-busting measures are as rare as a snowfall in the Sonoran Desert.

Geography, self-interests, and humanitarian concerns require North America's neighbors to cooperate on myriad issues, not the least of which is immigration. However, Mexico's power brokers have failed to make the difficult decisions necessary to use their nation's bountiful wealth to benefit the masses. Washington and Ottawa have every right to insist that Mexico's pampered elite act responsibly, rather than expecting US and Canadian taxpayers to shoulder burdens Mexico should assume.

[bleedingheart]

6. thank you so much for that link!

so basically Mexico is a corrupt country run by rich bastards who manipulate the tax structure to their own advantage and instead of creating a social safety net for their people and investing in Mexicans...they basically shove em across the border.

[rocktivity]

17. But Mexico could not do what they do without the help of the U.S.

ANOTHER "corrupt country run by rich bastards who manipulate the tax structure to their own advantage instead of creating a social safety net for their people and investing in Mexicans"!


rocknation

[bleedingheart]

22. you are correct...and the rich bastards here want to eliminate the

safety net ...

[Horse with no Name]

31. And don't think for a MINUTE

that our country won't do the same to us.
Why the Hell does everyone think they are in such a rush to gut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc??
EXCEPT the difference will be, the rich in THIS country will keep us because we are indebted (via Credit Cards, etc) and we will be forced to work for nothing to repay debts.
The groundwork is being laid. One only needs to open their eyes and look.

[MadMaddie]

4. He's doing Nothing for his own citizens....he want's them

to come here.....and then send money back to Mexico...that money is part of their economy...

[bleedingheart]

9. key question....why don't Mexicans do something to fix this problem

where is the Mexican FDR?

It seems like a situation ripe for either an FDR or a Socialist to take advantage of...

[MadMaddie]

12. Good Question...Mexico is ripe for a revolution....

The Drug lords have corrupted the police...Mexico has numerous serial killers on the loose....poverty is rampant....infrastructure of the cities is poor to none....

[bleedingheart]

14. Bush could have another Chavez...right next door if something isn't done

to address this...

By the way I saw a TV program about the serial killings of young girls and how no one seems to give a shit. I thought it was an isolated problem, but is it worse than that...????

[MadMaddie]

16. I saw the same program....it seems that it is an ongoing...

problem and that the police are pretty ineffective when conducting investigations....

[raccoon]

30. This was in Juarez? nt

[PsN2Wind]

28. You don't see a million or so

turning out to demonstrate for "Rights" in their country as they do in ours.

[Bridget Burke]

36. You can see them if you actually look!

[High Plains]

24. There is an election in June or July. Fox will be gone.

Mexican presidents serve only one six-year term.

It's a three way race for the presidency between the PRI (the old ruling party), the PAN (Fox's party), and the PRD (the center-left party). PRD candidate Lopez Obrador, the former mayor of Mexico City, is leading all the polls.

[bleedingheart]

26. who would be better for the Mexican people?

is there no actual leftist party...what is center left in Mexico? i know that in some countries what they call liberal is actually conservative by our standards...

[Bridget Burke]

35. Andrés Manuel López Obrador is the leading candidate for President.

In the elections to be held this summer. He's described as "Center Left" but some in the opposition are already claiming he's a "leftist thug like Chavez & Castro."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andres_Manuel_Lopez_Obrado...

He may be able to do good things for Mexico. Of course, Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas also planned to do good--until the election was stolen in broad daylight, back in 1988. I was visiting San Antonio when this went down, so I felt the "link" to Mexico very strongly. I've been following Mexican politics ever since.

[manic expression]

38. True

The forerunner in the upcoming election is very leftist. Here's some info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4721381.stm

He may be what the doctor has been ordering for awhile. Mexico has had many revolutions, many of them extremely bitter and bloody, but they have not come to much in terms of change. Perhaps the time has come.

[bleedingheart]

40. he looks like a good candidate based on the information in that article

it is amazing to read that half of all Mexicans in Mexico live below the poverty line.

[TahitiNut]

15. One-sixth of "his own citizens" live in the US.

In terms of population, the US is the United Mexican States' 32nd state, with a greater population than any of the others, including Estado de México.

There are more than 20 million Mexican expatriates living in the US, either legally or illegally. Canada is second (in the world), with 36,000 Mexican expatriates. (This isn't counting American or Canadian citizens either of Mexican ancestry or origin.) Compared to an estimated total population of 106.5 million for Mexico itself, the numbers are truly astounding. I know of no other major nation on the face of the planet with such a huge portion of it's own citizens living as expatriates, let alone mostly in one other country.

[bleedingheart]

21. those figures are astounding!

[TahitiNut]

34. When you consider that we accepted fewer than 1 million 'boat people'

... I think it's even more astonishing. (Canada accepted more per capita than the US, afaik.)

[fishnfla]

32. Legal immigrants voting records

I caught a line in Krugman's recent column that I did not quite understand, something to the tune of recent immigrants (legal citizens, I presume) are voting 40 % more for GOP candidates than residing Mexican Americans. I wonder what the hard numbers are on this voting block.

Why Bush and some GOPers want amnesty, I guess.

Edit to add: it wasn't a Krugman column, so my bad, I dont know where I got that figure. I'd still be interested to know the voting trends. I'm guessing as devote Catholics the Mexican immigrants are largly anti-abortion

[TahitiNut]

33. I don't think any kind of stereotyping comes close.

I can easily understand why those Cubans who were beneficiaries of the Batista regime and who took refuge in the US tend to vote conservative, or even fascist. I don't believe for an instant that a person's ethnicity assures a political orientation. I can also easily understand that, as Latin American countries swing to the left, advocates and beneficiaries of colonialism would not only flee but opt to take refuge in the US instead of, say, Venezuela or Canada. The US is obviously and clearly far more fascist these days than either Canada or Venezuela. I don't think we're seeing the end, either. As the rest of the Western Hemisphere countries become more and more liberalized - Chili, Venezuela, Nicaragua - more people will flee to preserve their privilege or seek a system in which they think they have an advantage over others. The "ownership class" exploits "their own" as well as "others."

That's NOT to say that ALL or MOST refugees are either right-wingers or fascists - or even personally conscious of the ideological slant. People tend to vote in accordance with social opinion-leaders - and every group has them.


I also don't necessarily believe BushCo really wants amnesty. It's surely a handy political position to take while perhaps working behind the scenes to assure it doesn't happen. After all, "we're here to help you" is something anyone can say - even thieves.

I personally oppose both amnesty and felonizing. I think people need to "get in line" and those who've shown respect for the laws of the nation they want to join should receive priority. The only instance in which I'd argue for individual pardons is when they provide material assistance in the indictment and prosecution of predatory employers - the bigger the better.

[fishnfla]

39. Info and interesting LBN discussion here

You are correct, see the discussion, stereotyping difficult

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Wining and dining Bush! n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. Bingo!!! eom

[MADem]

8. He's doing what he can get away with, and what his good pal

"Taco y Cerveza" Jorge is LETTING him do.

There's two sides to this mess, and while things were going swell over on this side of the border, and there weren't enough construction jobbers, janitors, chambermaids, lawn workers, maids, cooks and nannies to fill the bill for the corporations and GOP rich folk who wanted cheap help, ole Jorge gave Vicente the big "No problemo, amigo" with regard to his exportation of human assets.

[400Years]

10. Fox is just like Bush, he only cares about the corporate billionaires

He came from Coca-Cola.

[Minnesota Libra]

11. He gives his countrymen directions to cross our border-that's it nt

[MadMaddie]

13. I believe this....one of the last tunnels that was discovered

was built better than some existing mines...technology...structure etc...I have to believe the Mexican government is involved in the tunnel building....

[Minnesota Libra]

20. I was on the news a couple months ago that Mexican officials..............

......was handing out maps on how to cross the American border and where to find water on the way. Then just a couple weeks ago Fox (Mexican President) had the audacity to say he/the Mexican government should have a say in setting immigration policy for the Mexican border. They don't want us poking our noses into their business about anything else but they want their noses and everyone in their country up here in our business.

If you doubt anything I'm saying just do a google search - I just did a quick google search of

"Mexican President on Border policy" and there would be other terms that could be used as well.

fficial" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/search?q=Mexican+President+on+bor...

[High Plains]

27. The maps were to help Mexican citizens avoid DYING in the

desert. They were a humanitarian gesture, not an emigration policy.

I don't understand why you are so offended that the US should consult with Mexico on immigration. It is clearly an issue that effects both countries. I don't think Fox is dictating US immigration policy, merely asking that Mexican concerns be considered.

[High Plains]

25. Oh, that's ridiculous.

The tunnels are built by drug traffickers.

[Cleita]

18. Nothing. Apparently he's done the opposite like his buddy

Bush. The factory jobs that Mexicans did have are now outsourced to China making the problem worse on both sides of the border.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. I think we all know what he is doing to help Mexicans find jobs.

[Bridget Burke]

37. Fox did have a proposal--but Bush let it drop.

WASHINGTON - Even before they were presidents, George W. Bush and Vicente Fox hatched a grand plan for immigration reform: Let more Mexicans into the United States as temporary, legal guest workers and at the same time, create incentives in Mexico to bring them home again.

On his first visit to the White House in the fall of 2001, President Fox boldly — and unilaterally — set the timetable. The deal could be sealed, he insisted, in four short months.....

Bush and Fox concede they have had their disagreements. Besides Fox's disappointment in Bush's failure to deliver an immigration-reform package, the two have clashed over the death penalty and treatment of Mexican nationals convicted of crimes in the U.S. Bush was stunned by Mexico's failure to back the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3758109.html

This was hardly a wonderful plan, but the "incentives in Mexico" bit had promise. However, Bush did nothing with the proposal.

(Fox, Bush & Canada's Harper are meeting in Cancun.)

[cynatnite]

41. Isn't the Mexican economy dependent on the US's?

At least this is what I've heard. Between the money American's spend in Mexico and immigrants who send portions of their income there, Mexico's economy has become very dependent on the US money.

Am I wrong about this? I've heard it, but never saw it in writing anywhere.