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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:23 AM
Original message
Today Show -- Why America Hates Fat Women
I just got really angry watching the 3-person panel on obesity that the show as doing because of a Marie Claire article that asked why Americans hate fat women.

Anyway, if you saw it you probably noticed how it played out. Let me say that I am not exactly taking sides here--I think there are definitely negative health effects that result from being obese, but...

The heavy woman (sorry I didn't catch any of their names) on the end was advocating a healthy diet and consistent exercise over obsessing about actual weight, and I think that is a really positive idea. Yes, she was heavy, but she had the right idea--taking care of yourself is important--hurting yourself through constant dieting and exercising to the point of exhaustion is not healthy.

However, once she had given her initial statement, the other two guests completely sidelined her, talked over her the entire time, and more or less dismissed everything she had said.

It made me really angry, because it only served to prove the point made in the Marie Claire article, the very point the show was supposedly trying to shed some positive light on.

I can't imagine how she feels right now--I guarantee that she knows exactly what just happened to her and what she represents.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Looks like they had a worthless host/moderator?



.....The heavy woman (sorry I didn't catch any of their names) on the end was advocating a healthy diet and consistent exercise over obsessing about actual weight, and I think that is a really positive idea. Yes, she was heavy, but she had the right idea--taking care of yourself is important--hurting yourself through constant dieting and exercising to the point of exhaustion is not healthy.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Actually, it was kind of "funny" --
Not haha funny, but...

Her name is Nathalie Morales, she's subbing for Katie Couric today. She is ridiculously thin for a start and it seemed pretty clear to me that she had her own opinion of the situation (which is understandable, but shouldn't have been clear to a viewer--this woman is supposed to be a "journalist" after all, and objective).

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. thanks.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:09 AM
Original message
Right.....supposed to be a "journalist" after all, and objective
:rofl:

We all know that journalists are objective

:rofl:

With all their editorialising adjectives they use.

:rofl:

In stead of saying the news they add in words like
SLAM or BLASTED telling us what they think happened
instead of us determining if it was a slam or a
blast on our own.

I'm so sick of the media.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. I quit smoking and gained 20 pounds in about a year.
That's about 15% more than my average weight, not obese but definitely overweight. It wasn't so much people making comments but people ignored me. Really, it was like I was invisible to the general public. My family didn't but, the rest of the world seemed to think I had disappeared. If you want to go undercover, just make yourself into an overweight middle aged woman, then nobody will notice you.

I have since lost the weight and am visible again.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I have noticed...
a small gain since I quit (just three weeks ago), but I am trying to be careful now about what I eat since I don't want to end up packing on all the weight I have lost in the past few years just bc I quit smoking.

One of the reasons that I quit was because I caught myself smoking instead of eating when I was hungry, and that is not a healthy thing to be doing...
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MsUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I'm in the process of hauling around another 20-25 lbs too
from quitting smoking last May, and I HATE IT!! You are not kidding about being invisible, it's unreal. Am working my butt off trying to loose it all, but sheesh how people deal or not deal with me is annoying really. :mad:
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #24
41. A year and a half ago, near my top weight...
I was waiting for an ice cream in front of the vendor when someone stepped around me and ordered first. When I protested, she said she hadn't seen me. I pointed out that in my pink and green jacket, I could be seen from outer space by a Russian satellite, so she must be blind. Very annoying.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
128. have you tried lifting weights?
It's a real weight dropper! I got a hint from a scientist in my Jazzercise class. He said that lifting weights increases your mitochnondria, which in turn burns calories more efficiently. I lost weight, that and changing jobs from one with high stress and lots of food around to one where there was low stress and NO food. I lost 15 pounds right away, no problem.

Try a gym. Just don't do the over head lifts of either the machines or free weights. I got an injury that has sidelined me from any machines using arms and put me into physical therapy for weeks. My pt's said don't do these exercises! They are too hard on your muscles!
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #16
46. I have a theory that women gain weight to avoid attention
especially unwantted attention from men. I have noticed that many of the very overweight women I know are also very pretty, that is they have very pretty faces. Believe it or not, being an attractive woman can be a problem, even a burden. People don't take you quite as seriously, especially if your prettiness is kind of cute. That's just my theory.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. That was true for me when I was younger.
It wasn't so much that I was pretty or cute (I look nice but not amazing) but that I had a big chest. I would walk down the street and men would come up behind me and hiss obscenities in my ear. It was actually a relief when I gained weight and men ignored me. And by then, I had picked up a lot of bad habits which just continued. Now that I'm losing weight I'm enjoying the extra attention but I'm better able to handle the creeps.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. OMG
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 12:05 PM by Marie26
I did the same thing. After leaving a job due to harassment, I started wearing baggy clothes & gaining weight. It bothered me to be overweight, but in some ways it was also a relief. I'd rather be ignored than ogled. So, now I've lost a lot of that weight, but still struggle to deal w/the creeps. It's so unfair that we're the ones who are made to feel self-conscious.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #46
51. Some women very well might do that.

Other reasons too, one being that some meds cause weight gain.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #46
59. Hmmm...I gained weight because I was depressed.
But some of my depression was related to problems with the opposite sex. When I was young, blond, skinny and pretty, I felt vulnerable. I still feel a bit vulnerable.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #46
71. I think you're right about that. nt
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #46
111. That has been partially true for me.
As a teenager and then young woman, I attracted way too much attention. While it was flattering, I was always aware that it wasn't really "me" that was valued, and that the attention was always focused on one outcome: sexual gains. Between fending off the advances from my mother's boyfriends as a teen, and trying to get some respect as an adult, I found that males were really not interested in who lived inside my skin. When I was married, both times, I discovered that the spouse preferred for me to hide my "assets" under a bushel, so to speak. No need to advertise the goods, or something. Since I became permanently single, I've been careful to avoid anything that would attract any attention at all. Weight, plain, comfortable clothing, no makeup, no hair style...

Of course, it's easier in my 40s than it was in my 20s, lol. I don't really have to try these days. But still, I've become a master at camouflage. Anyone who wants to spend any time with me is going to have to value the person rather than the window dressing.
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
105. Absolutely.
I put on a lot of weight for both my pregnancies, and during the months after each one I couldn't believe the difference in how people treated me. You really do become invisible.
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wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. Well, except that was the only time in my life I actually had boobs.
I was always amazed that a man would try to look down my shirt while I was hauling a brand new baby around. I dunno, I thought they would respect the sanctity of new motherhood or something.
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
113. You hit the nail on the head
It wasn't so much people making comments but people ignored me. Really, it was like I was invisible to the general public. My family didn't but, the rest of the world seemed to think I had disappeared. If you want to go undercover, just make yourself into an overweight middle aged woman, then nobody will notice you.

I am overweight, and it's something I've been battling for years. The general public do not like fat women, and probably not fat men either. The majority of the time, clerks in the store don't make eye contact with you, often don't greet you or smile at you. I've walked up to a store counter with a clerk standing right behind it, and been completely ignored.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #16
142. Had the same experience
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. We can't sell magic pills, packaged diet food and diet books if you
just ate right and excercised. Where's the profit in that? :sarcasm:

Ok, maybe not sarcastic - but certainly in line with the Consumer Agenda as promoted on M$M
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Exactly!
I mean, where's the profit in buying seasonal vegetables, healthy cuts of meat and walking the dog for an hour every morning and every night? Gotta keep buying those diet bars, shakes, awesome abs in 2 seconds machines, and diet book after diet book after diet book! (I read recently that diet books are the highest selling category for the publishing industry in America. God forbid we cut into their profits by eating smart and exercising!)
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Besides sex what else is there?
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. What was that?
I'm not sure what you were trying to say there... with the reply, or the picture...
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. don't forget major sugery to shrink the stomach.
breaking news, btw: Americans aren't fond of obese men, either, unless they're rich of course.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I think that we are much harder, as a society, on women --
1) We expect women to be thin and sexy, no matter how many children they have had or what their actual body types are;

2) The standards for what makes a woman thin and attractive to most people are much harder to meet than those we have for me. Men are "allowed" to be heavier. It has everything to do with "how dare you not be attractive" "how dare you not look like what I want you to look like" and "I can't believe you don't want to look this way so I will want to fuck you."
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
49. Actually, there may be some traditional sex roles at work there
I hear what you're saying about men being allowed to be heavier, and don't disagree.

But in gay dating world, it doesn't apply - men are judged on looks/age/body shape just as much as any woman has ever been subjected to.

I imagine the reasons are very similar.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
52. Bingo, especially on #2. nt
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
56. I think #2 hits the nail on the head...
So many men are offended by women who send the message that they obviously don't care about being sexually attractive to them or by being tyrannized by their ridiculous beauty standards. It's so much about control and dominance.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. I didn't see the show, or read the article. BUT
It has always bugged me that other people seem to feel they have a right to "care" about another person's health. I don't give a shit if another person is fat or even if they are healthy.
If they aren't a friend or family, it's none of my business.

I've always felt it was totally weird to be offended by having to look at a fat woman.
I have a funny feeling it has to do with sex or something ( " how dare she not be sexually attractive to me )or maybe fear.
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Bellamia Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. It is none of your business...
even if they are "a friend or family". A concern maybe, but everyone has the right to chose how to live. You can best help them by living YOUR life the best way possible, eating right, exercising, positive attitude etc. but no butting in. No judging....if they knew better, they'd do better. Be a role model
and support every effort they make to better themselves.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Well, I think if they are clearly unhappy...
I don't think anyone should pressure a loved one to lose weight--it can be extremely damaging. But if it is obvious that that loved one is having serious health problems or emotional problems because of the weight, then I think it is the right thing to do to try to help them.

That doesn't mean telling them they need to lose weight--if they are sick or depressed, they already know that. It means giving them the love and support they need to make a positive change.
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CheshireCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
140. Bingo! Not the business of others!
I'm in my fifties. A few years ago, after a severe depression and complete mental breakdown, I put on about 30 pounds. This was the result of an anti-psychotic drug that literally saved my life. The extra weight seemed like such a small problem, because I was mentally healthy for the first time since I was in my twenties. Hell - I was happy for the first time in my life.

Well, nothing like some extra weight to help you find out who your real friends are. You would not believe the number of people who still look down on me - even feel sorry for me - because of the weight. Most of these people cannot accept that I would rather stay on my medicine and be happy than to return to my old ways of starving and purging myself to stay thin.

For 25 years, I starved myself, hated myself, and worried what others thought of me. If the price for being happy & confident is an extra 20 to 25 lbs, I consider the cost to be more than reasonable.
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GumboYaYa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
143. What about an alcoholic or drug addict? What if they were manic
depressive or suicidal? It is nonsense to think that someone who is morbidly obese and at great health risk should be left to their own devices to fix the problem. There are times when others need help, even if they don''t realze it. If someone is offended by that, tough luck, I would still try to help.
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CheshireCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. Not all overweight people are morbidly obese
or unhealthy.

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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
6. I agree with you
Quick personal story: I was placed on medication in Dec. 2004 which helped a problem I was having, but also had the unwanted side effect of horrible weight gain. (We aren't just talking 10-20 pounds here. In total, I gained close to 70 before I could stop taking the medicine.) Since being off the medication, I've lost roughly half of what I put on. Let's just say the entire experience has been enlightening.

Observations:

1. Since gaining the weight, it is a very rare event for any man (or woman) to offer to help me with a task (flat tire, carry packages, get something off a shelf, etc.)

2. People with whom I'd had active friendships stopped calling (volleyball team members, biking buddies)

3. Waiters and Waitresses would hand me menus with their 'healthy' or 'low-fat' selections face up.

4. People who would probably never consider commenting on someone's race, disability or outward religious appearance, have absolutely no problem informing an overweight person of their girth. (Maybe they think fat folks aren't aware they are fat?)

5. It was assumed throughout my smaller community that my husband and I were headed for divorce? (Why else would a woman put on so much weight so quickly?)

-----

Finally, I hope this doesn't stir up issues from the DU past, but it is true that, in general, people on DU have issues with women being overweight --- especially those who are considered overweight and aren't at least upset about it or making active attempts to change it.

As you pointed out, there are health problems associated with being overweight. There are also health problems associated with being underweight. Instead of society encouraging each member to strive for their own healthy zone - regardless of what size or weight that is - we are way too obsessed with the numbers.
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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I had a very similar experience. It is quite eye opening.
Until about two years ago, I was in excellent physical shape. I then got a new (management) job which turned into 12 and 14 hours days and lots of business lunches at restaurants.

Adding to the drop in exercise and increase in food consumption is my age (late 40's). So, I put on over 50 pounds in two years.

I have been working out diligently for the last 6 weeks, and am slowly taking off the pounds. I, too, was treated differently by people I've known for years.

I feel confident that I'll get back in shape. I've been saying "The bigger you get, the more invisible you are." MKJ
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #11
42. For a while.. invisable is exactly what I wanted to be.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 09:59 AM by notadmblnd
it's not always a bad thing. After my husband died my weight went up to 230 pounds. I really didn't care anymore what I looked like or what anyone thought of me. For a long time I wanted to be left alone. BTW.. he was 6 ft 165 and a weight lifter. Died in his sleep of heart failure. Me, on the other hand.. hasn't had so much as a cold in over 3 years.

It's been over two years now since he passed and I have recently dropped a good 30 pounds (I do not diet or have an exercise program and never even owned a bathroom scale) by getting my butt out of the bed in the morning, becomming more active, and believe it or not, drinking tea. I'm finding more and more, that the attention that is being paid to me particularly by members of the opposite sex is because of the weight loss.

I'm not saying this because I'm full of myself, but in my youth I was a damn good looking woman. Although I feel better, I'm not sure I like the extra attention, it adds another level of stress to my life that I'm finding I don't want to deal with. I don't like having to be nice and politely find a way to tell them that I'm not interested in them when I'm approached.

I've discovered that I like living with no man in the house. Sure, I have extra chores and yard work but I don't have to put up with all the man things that women have to put up with.. Ladies, you know what they are.

Maybe I'll become invisable again, I don't know.. and as long as I'm healthy, I don't really care. I'm the same person fat or thin and it's not important to me any longer to be seen by others.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #42
62. You know, I think that invisibility may have been part of why I gained
weight. I didn't want the attention. I had enough problems without adding a man to the equation. Ugh.
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #62
73.  I love men.. I just don't want to keep one
I want them to go back to where ever they come from when I'm done with them.

Maybe it's a little twisted, I don't know.
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #42
115. I hope to lose weight,, for myself
not to please anyone else. But I think I'll still have a hard time dating should I lose weight and become more attractive to the opposite sex once again. I'll know that they wouldn't have been likely to give me a second glance before. How can I feel truly loved knowing that? And also, as others have said, some of my friends have drifted away and I think it's because of my weight gain. It makes me sad to see them in a whole new light, and know that I'll never feel the same way about them again.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
77. Isn't it?
Yes, it is true. I've been thin & overweight, and the difference in the way people treat you is amazing. It's the little things - people wouldn't open the door, salespeople wouldn't help, people would look through you instead of looking at you. Now, I'm thinner & people are nice to me again. It was really incredibly eye-opening.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. The obsession with numbers is enough to get the whole
fat train rolling. I was 17 and weighed 132. I am five foot six. My mother was worried that I was "getting big as a house." She took me to a diet dr. and I got speed. And thus started a lifelong love/hate relationship with food..AND MY MOTHER. I would decide to diet on Monday, starve myself, give up by Wednesday and binge until the next Monday when I would start all over again. Add two kids, some pretty substantial poverty, and the rest is hsitory. I stopped that horrible pattern about ten years ago, but the damage was done. I'm fat. Very fat.

Fat people are fortunate in some ways. We are blessed with an inner radar about who is a "lightweight" (no pun intended) by the way people treat us. People who can see past my weight to ME are my friends. The others are not, and it is not my loss. They are shallow and base their opinions on appearances, and I have found that extends throughout their lives and they are usualy racists, bigots, and shallow.

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Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. I hear ya, Grannie!
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 09:26 AM by Howardx
I've been very fat, and I've been painfully thin. I make a point to treat everyone equally because of it. It's interesting the response you get when you smile and say good morning to a young, shy, fat girl on the elevator. Makes their day. Disgusting how we treat people.


Oops! JuniperX here... I keep forgetting we share this computer!
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. My story seems to echo yours Grannie but I was 13 when my mom sent
me to a doctor to get speed. Over my life I have gained maybe 1000 pounds and have lost 900. The more I lose and slip back the more I have gained. Right now I am in a holding pattern at the heaviest I have been. I am gearing up to try one more time for health reasons. I'm 54 and know that healthwise something has to be done. I am just so tired of it all.

As to invisibility... amazingly, although I don't get the same number of appreciative glances from men that I did at lighter weights (remarkably I do get some)I still get doors opened for me and curteous behavior as I go through my day to day. Luckily I work for myself so I have not encountered prejudice in the work force. My dearest friends and children love me unconditionally.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
54. I think the recipient of that kind of stupid, rude, insensitive remark
would be perfectly justified in telling the speaker to go Cheney him/herself.

"4. People who would probably never consider commenting on someone's race, disability or outward religious appearance, have absolutely no problem informing an overweight person of their girth. (Maybe they think fat folks aren't aware they are fat?
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CheshireCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
141. Wish I had read your post
before I posted about my similar experience. How dare these people assume that looking attractive to them should be more important than your own happiness! Pure arrogance.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
8. I thought the doctor in the middle had a point...
that it would be worth finding out why people overeat but they were talking over each other so much it was hard to hear anyone. I've lost 46 pounds on Weight Watchers so far but they only give me the guidelines to follow, which are basically sensible eating. It's still up to me to deal with the impulses that still come up.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. They all had valid points.
I was just very troubled at how the heavy woman was treated--had she been thin and said the exact same things, I think she would have gotten a lot more respect.

I have lost about 60 lbs in the last couple of years, since my daughter was born, but I didn't buy any of those stupid books or drink crack shakes for breakfast, lol--I just ate healthy food and exercised a little--just like that woman was saying on the show--so I know that she was right, which is even more upsetting.



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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. I did think they were attacking the heavier woman...
as though she had some communicable disease that they had to protect others from. I would have liked someone to discuss portion control (did they?) because, here in the US, we have no concept of an adequate portion. Very often these days I eat only half what's on my plate and take home the rest. The cheapest thing that a restaurant can give you for the price they have to charge you anyway is more food on your plate.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. I think soft-drinks are a major culprit for many people, too.
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #39
43. I gave up soda many years ago...
even plain seltzer, which I love for the bubbles but the bubbles don't love me.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
78. Whenever a restaurant sells a "half serving" of a dish, I order it.
I always figure there was a reason to offer that option. Somehow, I never leave the table hungry.

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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #78
92. More often than not, I just get appetizers these days.
I've found I have to be totally obsessive just to maintain an average weight, now that I'm in my (late) thirties.

You can't eat an "average" American diet and be thin, unless you have a very fast metabolism (or are a MAN!).
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #92
139. We've got a few "tapas bars"...
And many other places have tasty appetizers that serve well as light meal. With a drink or 2--although alcohol has calories, so caution is needed.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Try HMR
I lost 175 pounds and kept it off for six years, total life style change, great program. I can't recommend it enough, it is a behavior modification program. I did it for health reasons initially. Feel free to PM if you want to ask me anything about it.

http://www.hmrprogram.com/
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Um, I need to say something --
To preface, I do not want to take away from your achievement--you have every right to be proud of yourself and I give you props.

But I just clicked on that link, and it reinforced exactly what we are talking about here--there is a picture of two women, clearly not overweight, right on the front page when it loads. That bothers me--the picture says two things:

1) Weight loss is for women. Women need to be thin and sexy (and on the flip side, men do not need to worry about weight loss). Women are the ones with the weight problems, not men.

2) This is what you are supposed to look like.

I'm not saying that it is a good idea to be obese, or to ignore unhealthy scale numbers, but the advertising, even for something that seems like a legitimate, healthy weight loss option, is clearly gender based and encouraging a certain stereotype.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
33. That certainly true.
I've noticed it more over the past few years. When you have a commercial of a married couple, it doesn't matter how shlubby the guy looks- Balding, overweight, a goof- whatever, the wife always has to look dropdead gorgeous and thin as a post.

I think Kate Winslet is a goddess. More so when I saw her in Titanic. She had a beautiful figure! And as soon as it was a hit, the press started to dig into her for being "fat". :crazy:
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. I don't get that either. n/t
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. Same with sitcoms. nt
"no matter how shlubby the guy looks- Balding, overweight, a goof- whatever, the wife always has to look dropdead gorgeous and thin as a post."
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #33
126. Like that Zantac? commercial! I effin' HATE that thing!
They're in the airport this and bald overwieght slob is about to stuff some pizza or something like that into his mouth and his wife and kids come running to stop him? He's a slovenly mess but the wife? She's bikini model thin and well kempt.

Sucks ass, makes me furious every time I see it.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
74. Haven't seen all of their advice but don't like this part...
This is invalid advice according to recent research:

Drinking a diet soda instead of a regular soda every day will save you 15 or more pounds in a year.

Diet soda seems to 1)make you hungrier for sweets and 2)messes up your metabolism by disconnecting sweet tastes from calories.
http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2004/040629.Swither...

Also, most diet soda also appears to be a carcinogen:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/business/yourmoney/12...
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #74
116. Substitute a glass of water for soda
would have been the better advice I think. I cut soda from my diet a while ago, and at first it was hard, but now I'm used to it. I may have a soda perhaps once a week. I buy Hansen's Diet Creamy Rootbeer, and my son and I have one each on a Saturday and see who can burp the loudest.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
38. thats an excellent point, i've lost about 75lbs in the past year and right
now i'm trying to find ways of keeping it off, trying to get to the root of why i tend to go back to comfort foods. The real test will be me modifying my behavior for the long haul, hopefully i'll be successful.
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queenjane Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
89. Congratulations on your loss!
I know how much dedication it took. I joined Weight Watchers in January of 2005, and lost 50 lbs. When I realized how much I had been eating, I was shocked I wasn't heavier. Now I'm battling to keep it off. I'm an unconscious eater. I'll grab a cookie in the breakroom and finish it before reaching my desk, not even remembering eating it. There's food everywhere at my office, and I have to force myself not to take even a little. I only indulge if it's something REALLY good (homemade brownies, a small piece of cheesecake). I try to plan what I'm going to eat for the whole day ahead of time. Doesn't always pan out, but it helps. I'm also a stress/boredom eater, seem to need to be doing something with my mouth when I'm anxious or restless. Unfortunately, I now use coffee as my pacifier, so I'm trying to ease off that!

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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
17. Its interesting
The majority of Americans are overweight - yet they always choose to identify with the perfect body rather than the healthy one.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. Nowadays, if you don't look like a stick figure
with two lumps of clay on your chest, you are overweight... These impossible body image types that women are reduced to are so dangerous, that the effect is usually an overweight woman...

Until society can change the way the look at women, I am afraid the number of obese women will continue to climb as the body type hype is an impossible dream for many....
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
106. the 'look' that is pushed is the plastic surgery look-like a plastic
barbie doll, but now, the human girl is plastic as well. i happened to catch a show about perfectly healthly, good looking women who are constantly getting plastic surgery and fixes to their face/body-they showed them over a period of surgeries and they looked so much better before the surgery. To me it is more like self-mutilation obsession.
the Fashion modeling industry has contributed to pushing 'clothes hanger' look for adolescent girls and grown women-they want everyone to look like 'pretty men'.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
25. hates? i dont think this says a thing about the women, only about
the people that "HATE"

if america "hates" fat women, bad on america.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
27. i just want to add from a
different country's perspective: here in st. lucia the women have such a healthy sense of their bodies. they are gorgeous, and their size is so secondary. i'm american and have for many years eaten healthfully and exercised and i've relaxed quite a bit since bein here although walk like a maniac - easy to do here since it's so gorgeous and we don't have a car! i see women here with bodies that would not be at all "acceptable" in the u.s. who turn heads. they have a positive natural attitude about their femaleness and the men really respond to that. i wish so much that my heavier friends in the u.s. could experience this and experience "being okay" with themselves the way the women do here. yes, there is a point where obesity is just plain dangerous to one's health, but it's been neurotically exaggerated in the u.s. just wanted to toss this in.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
99. and that's why
american women love to vacation in the caribbean. they are APPRECIATED for whatever size they are, unlike in the states. i've heard, seen, and experienced it time and again.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
109. it is different in other countries,it's great, America is neurotic++
in our government and culture.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Thinner Than Thou" by Kip Reed
By an odd coincidence, I have just finished reading "Thinner Than Thou" by Kip Reed. It is a fiction novel, set in the near future, that examines America's obsession with food and fitness. The premise is that America has taken to a new religion: body image. The evangelist of this movement, Reverend Earl, has built up a vast empire that includes both a top end weight loss spa and religious center to fitness clubs to all-you-can-eat restaurants (gotta keep them in the gyms) and "Jumbo Jigglers", strip clubs that feature very overweight dancers (make anything a sin and it becomes a fetish, and sex sells.) The story arc is about a teen aged girl who develops anorexia and is sent away to what is, effectively, a prison for girls who are not physically perfect.

Not a bad read.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. I'm going to have to grab a copy --
sounds very interesting!
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Ufomammut Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
29. Which came first?
A collective ideal of what constitutes "beauty," or a collectively established ideal of "beauty" that is formulated and adhered-to through mass, routine exposure to cold, shame-based corporate "values" and ideals?
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lins the liberal Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. What really makes me angry
is that the medical community and society in general refuse to recognize that many overweight people have an addiction to certain foods.

Sugar to me is just like alcohol to an alcoholic. I can't stop eating candy, cookies, cakes, pies, etc. until it is either all gone or I am so full and miserable I can't move.

There is a lot written about addictive behaviors, gambling, sex, relationship addiction, etc. but food is usually left out of any and all articles on addiction.
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laruemtt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. me too - ice cream here -
that's why it doesn't come in the house! i can't help myself...........
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
68. there really IS such a thing
as a carb craving. Of the two snack food groups, I find "salty" much harder to resist than "sweet"
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Yes, we are never "thin" enough for the runway ...
Sorry, not all of us are 5'10" and above and the only way we can look like models is through true starvation.

No thank ya! :P

The other side of the coin is as depressing:

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Ufomammut Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. The sad irony is...
That while completely - consciously/unconsciously - submersing their lives, their attempts to be "liked," and to be happy, within this sick shit, these completely unhealthy cycles, many will simultaneously disavow and downplay the deeply seated effects of mass media and propaganda overall, and insist that all of the systematic routines are coincidental and strictly of their own choosing, free from corporate influence.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
40. "America" Has the Problem - Not Fat Women
I broke my leg once and gained quite a few pounds. Since I'm so short, it made a big difference. It was so annoying to hear people talk about about how fat I was. And, when I lost the weight (through no hard work - I'm a lazy ass) I was sick of hearing people ask for my "secret."

Health problems aren't why people pry or treat people poorly. The people that look into your grocery cart aren't concerned with your eating habits -- they're nosy busy-bodies who want to feel good about themselves. The people that won't make eye contact with a fat person aren't worried about health, they're just snobs. And, how the hell would they know about a fat person's health anyway?

Notice that there are no "Why America Hates Thin People" stories on the Today Show. Being overly thin is very unhealthy. And, you can be just as fatty as a small person - if you have no muscle.

The problem with "health" fads such as diets or pills or surgeries is that they are all seen as magic solutions for the major crime of being fat. It has something to do with health, but more about appearance. Again, unhealthiness comes in a variety of body types and habits. Hatred for fat people is the basis of an entire industry.
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Ufomammut Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Bingo - and so is the "war on terror"
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queenjane Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
47. I recently lost 50 lbs., and was stunned by the attention I got
Particularly from male colleagues with whom I've worked for 10 years. Prior to that weight loss, some of them had never even said hello to me in passing. Suddenly, they were flirting and chatting and behaving like I was an old friend. I was repulsed. I'm the same person I was before, just healthier and more energetic. I think some of them were stunned that I wasn't thrilled by their attention.

And it's not just men. ALL people now smile more, talk more, invite me to lunch, etc. And at a time when I should've been happy and proud of my accomplishment (I worked damned hard to lose that weight, and it's still a struggle), it just saddens me to know that I was nothing more than a body shape.

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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
64. Congrats on your weight loss
And boo to the men who decided to start treating you differently!

:hug:
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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
76. Isn't this just the pits?
Congratulations on your healthy transformation, and also on your seeing through the superficialiaty of quite a substantial proportion of people's response to you.
Although to their credit - perhaps it is also your higher energy and outlook on life feeling healthier that attracts others?

I would enjoy it even without knowing exactly where it is coming from...... :-)

:hug:

DemEx
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queenjane Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. Thanks for the kind words, and the hug!
I'll admit I do enjoy the attention, at least from people who didn't know me before. It's the ones who ignored me pre-loss who piss me off! :-)

My experience has made me far angrier at how overweight people are treated in our society. I don't think I noticed it so much before, but now that I personally have been treated with much more respect just for dropping a few clothing sizes, it's glaring. (I guess anyone who doesn't have the decency to look like Heidi Klum should just stay indoor and not scare the horses. Ha ha.)
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Iris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #47
118. There's a book you might want to check out called "Passing for Thin"
It's written by a woman who lost a whole lot of weight in her 30s or early 40s (not sure which) and describes what it was like for her to be thin for the first time in her life. To start dating without any of the experience most women her age have. I haven't read it yet, but it's on my night stand.
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
119. Congrats!
And I was just wondering the same thing up above - I'm trying to lose weight, and hope to do so, just so I can move more freely and keep up with my young son. But I do wonder how I am going to react to people suddenly finding me acceptable to speak to again, and I think I will be resentful and mistrustful of their suddenly-found friendliness. I don't want someone as a friend or romantic partner just because I no longer offend their eyes.
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edbermac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. Don't mind a lady who's pleasantly plump...
Definitely can't stand 'thin is in' look...

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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
103. Amen!
:D
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
53. and they wonder why so many young women are meth addicts
the media's idea of female beauty is looking like a crack head.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #53
55. my daughter is 11 and in her class some of the girls are already worried
about their weight and getting fat.
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Dulcinea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. My daughters are 4 and 2
...and I'm very careful about what I say around them about body image. I used to look at myself & say things like "I'm such a fat load!" even though I'm a size 8 & run 20 miles a week. (See, no one is immune to the demands of society!)

Now I emphasize exercise as a health issue, not a weight issue, and beat it into their heads how important it is to eat healthy foods. I hope it sinks in before they're bombarded with the message that if you're not a size 0 or 2, you're huge. My kids are smart; I figure it's never too early!
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #61
93. I feel lucky to have sons, actually.
I struggled for years with eating issues, and feel like I couldn't help but pass on my craziness if I had daughters. Boys have their own stuff to deal with, of course, but girls really do get nutty messages from the culture, these days.

Kudos to you for getting your kids off to a good start! :thumbsup:
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:29 PM
Original message
It can affect boys too
My son is almost 8 and in the 2nd grade. He has said more than once that he weighs too much. Now this kid is skinny as a rail, and I kid you not, not an ounce of fat on him. He burns it all off! But he is already hearing the message that fat is bad. This breaks my heart, and I know he recognizes that I am fat and I wonder if some kids have teased him about his mom.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
124. I think our culture is just a little bit sick in this regard...
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 07:54 PM by SmokingJacket
I used to know an 8-yr old anorexic girl (she's since grown up, not too healthy, though). It's really too bad that our kids hear these messages so early, when they should be the furthest things from their minds.

:hug:
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #55
90. It was the same when I was in sixth grade...
in 1966.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. And they wonder why so many young women have eating
disorders.

The wonder to me is that there aren't MORE cases of anorexia/bulimia than there are.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. More women doing Meth as well
for this very reason........
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The Flaming Red Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #58
66. Where I live the guys wont even talk to you unless youre a skinny butt
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 11:46 AM by The Flaming Red Head
They obsess over it even the fat ones. I just put on 15 pounds because of disk (herniations, ruptures, and bulges) problems and I do work and eat healthy but my job involves a lot of heavy lifting (I work with a quad) and when Im not at work I can hardly move I hurt so bad. All the women that I know that are dating are or having any kind of social life either have eating disorders or are on meth or crack and most of them don't work. (But obviously I must be lazy because I've put on weight.) Thats small town America.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #66
80. Gosh, Flaming, sorry to hear that. nt
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
60. What's the average Joe supposed to do?
Granted, making fun of fat people isn't even on the table, but I suspect that even if fat people weren't made fun of, there would still be "complaining" in one form or another.

While most guys (that I know at least) don't care for the Calista Flockhart/new Lindsay Lohan gaunt, skeletal, anorexic look, neither are they attracted to humungously fat women. I assume (correct me if I'm wrong?) that most girls are not terribly turned on by a humungously fat man. As far as physical attraction goes, I think most people are somewhere in between: some meat on the bones can be a fine thing, but roll after roll of fat is something altogether different. Typically. Generally. On average.

I get the feeling that fat people want more from society than simply freedom from ridicule. I get the feeling that they want to be regarded as actively attractive and desirable - and that the rest of us who *aren't* attracted to them are somehow at fault. And the fact that many of us aren't attracted to them is *treated as* ridicule.

Does that make sense? The difference between (being raked over the coals) and simply (not being widely held to be physically attractive) ?

Is there anything like a real issue here? Or am I just being an asshole? (Not meaning to be an asshole, but I'm not the brightest guy in the world.)
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #60
65. Hmmm
So you feel it is okay to only be polite, smile and get along with the folks you find physically attractive?

I think there is a big difference in fat folks complaining no one wants to fuck them and complaining that others moan when they get on the bus.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
81. Sad to say, I believe a lot of people are like that.
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 12:22 PM by raccoon
"you feel it is okay to only be polite, smile and get along with the folks you find physically attractive "----or have more money/political power.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #60
67. I think most fat folks don't care
if you find them attractive or not.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #67
70. Okie - just wanted to throw it out there....
... Like hell if I'm gonna push it in this thread! LOLOL

I do think there exists a *perception* similar to what I described "out there". If I were gonna push it in this thread (which I'm not), I'd point out that such perceptions can be very powerful, and dealing with them - rather than dismissing them - might be helpful to the cause of fat folks.

Giving a "fat folks don't care" response leads to - guess what? - neither do I. Best of luck to fat folks on their own (again), after spurning the well-intentioned interest of someone else.

ciao!
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. It's about respect, basically.
Hi BlooInBloo. I think if you treat people in general with respect & dignity, you can't go wrong.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #70
82. I know what you are saying.
... like so many issues, there is a lot of delusion floating around about this.

Women upset because they become "invisible" when overweight? An average looking man is invisible his whole life. Get over it, I did.

All this "body-image" talk, as if men were immune to the Pitts and Swartzeneggers on the screen. Guess what, most people do not look like movie stars, and they manage to get on with their lives anyway.

Don't let the marketeers define you. If you want to be thinner or whatever, go for it, it is really not an impossible task. If you want to eat whatever you like, that is your right as an American, have a blast.

Sure, body types are different. I'm an naturally skinny person. At 6'1", I weighed 140 lbs until I was 40 and suddenly single and being a toothpick was not working for me, if you get my drift. Trust me, when I went to the gym and added 40 lbs of muscle the number of women interested in me shot up dramatically. It is not just men that care about the physical.

Some women ARE big boned, large framed, they are not going to look like twiggy and they shouldn't try. But to deny that folks are just fatter than they used to be is hopeless. Look at some film of a European, Asian or Middle Easter street scene. There are a few overweight people. Look at an American scene. Half or more of the people are overweight. Not all of them are big boned, not all of them are on meds, it is the dietary and sedentary habits that put that weight on. If you are happy with yourself, don't worry about it. If you are not, don't expect society to wear glasses that make you look 40 lbs thinner.
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #82
122. I want to address this remark
f you want to eat whatever you like, that is your right as an American, have a blast.

You share a common misconception. I am overweight, this is true. But you might be surprised at what I actually eat most days. The phrase "eat whatever you like" implies that I pig out, and eat unrestrainedly. The fact is, I don't eat a lot. I could do better, but I'm not eating a bucket of chicken, or five candy bars in a sitting, etc.

Maybe, since you've never had to deal with suddenly gaining a lot of weight and then finding it's incredibly hard to get it back off, you can't quite understand what we're talking about.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. You know what...
... you are right and that was not a well crafted statement.

I am well aware that some people are overweight without eating what most of us would consider excessively. I realize now that what I said could be interpreted to be accusatory, and I didn't mean that.

I do believe that with the right diet and most importantly, exercise, MOST people can attain a reasonable weight.

My point was not to deride overweight people, it was that they should not expect others to find them as attractive. It is as natural as apple pie for humans to find middle-of-the-road physical traits, be they weight, nose, any feature, the most attractive. And what we find attractive is not a decision, it is a feeling.

BTW - my mother had a gastric bypass done a month ago. She was 300+ and it was affecting her heart. She's lost 20 lbs or so already, but it is no picnic - what it really does is FORCE you to not eat... But she is thrilled with the whole thing and therefore so am I :)
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #70
86. I don't understand what you're driving at
>Best of luck to fat folks on their own (again), after spurning the well-intentioned interest of someone else.<

I get the general impression that your "well-intentioned interest" is nothing more than the opportunity to take a shot at those of us who deal with this problem daily.

Julie

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #70
101. you're talking about extremes
and i don't think that's what this conversation is about.
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windy252 Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #67
127. I can't speak for others
but I'd like to disagree there for myself. Even when I was very overweight, I cared about what people thought about me.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #60
69. look around, "average joe"
Are you surrounded by "invisible people"? I'm not talking about prospective partners here... how about the stranger in line at the market behind you?
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Um, to a guy, they're ALL prospective partners....
... So I can't go with your set-up.

But aside from that, um, what do you mean? I'm surrounded (well not right this second, but in general) by people of varying heights and weights - some of them fat. So?

I'm just not picking up what you're laying down, I don't think... :(
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #60
121. Please re-read the posts if you will
I was thin and attractive all through my 20's and 30's. It is when I had my son in my mid to late 30's, that the weight gain occurred. It was an eye opener for me to realize how differently women are treated, slim vs. heavy. And I don't mean grotesquely obese either. I tried to dress attractively, clean and shiny hair, fresh breath, friendly smile on the face. And time after time, I would be simply ignored by people, such as sales clerks, people going into doors ahead of me, etc., etc. And it slowly dawned on me: It's the fact that I am overweight that is such a turn off.

I'm not saying that men should find me desperately attractive. But is my being overweight reason enough for complete lack of common courtesy when you are heading into a building in front of me? Or if you are checking my groceries, you don't need to bother being polite because I'm fat? I don't deserve even basic common courtesy? That's my point.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
83. What is wrong with some people?
I hate to hijack your thread but I didn't want to start a thread on this pet peeve I have. Why is it when you're in an elevator, you're the only one in it, then you pick up someone from another floor and the door closes, you see in your peripheral vision they are eying you up and down. It just irks me when they do that. This happened to me today and it's not the first time. It's usually women that do that. I would never do something like that. That is so rude. Do they not realize they are doing this? I don't get it. I was told once to look back at them but I'm afraid if I do that, they won't look away. I don't like confrontations. I just can't do it. :-)
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. Eye them back...
then ask them to turn around so you can get a better look. Admittedly, you have to be in a pretty devil-may-care mood to do that. It also helps if you're near your own floor and can make a quick exit. ;-)
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Hehehe...
:D
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
84. The problem is the definition of "fat."
Marilyn Monroe would be considered fat nowdays. In the past being overweight was considered attractive because it ment you had enough monet tobuy all thay food. nowdays being super-thin is considered attractive because healthy foods are often more expensive then processes, fattening foods, and they can afford health club dues.
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newportdadde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
85. They also hate short men.
I'm happily married and off the market but one thing I notice is that being 5'7'' has always been enough to pretty much make me invisible to of 2/3 of the women out there. I know women are much more suttle in checking out man so maybe I'm not aware of it but thats my perception. Now I get that if your a woman who is 5'7'' or even 5'5'', hey I know it screws up shoe choices(wife's comment) but for the rest of you come on! :) All you guys 6ft+ need to leave the 5'2'' gals alone for us short guys B-).

Now the weight issue can usually be worked on to some degree(I've been working out for 4 years). Still your height something you can't change can pretty much screw a guy, take a look at upper management almost all males will be 6ft.

Hey also on weight boy does getting old suck with weight gain. I've pretty much cut back to the bone but it seems like if I even look at a piece of chocolate I gain a couple of pounds.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #85
97. Yeah, but you don't want those women anyway...
I love short men, fat men, skinny men, whatever... as long as they're funny and smart.

The great thing about not being stereotypically attractive -- I'm small busted, for example, and not gorgeous -- is that the people who ARE attracted to you and seek you out are looking beyond the superficial. I've always had the greatest boyfriends and am married to a great guy -- I never had to fend off a lot of attention from random shallow assholes, and the guys who like me like ME, not my bust.

I bet your wife is a wonderful woman...
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #85
114. interesting, I'm 5'2" and constantly attract tall guys-what's with that?
I never understood that, I keep thinking, shouldn't you be with a taller woman?
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Samurai_Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #114
120. As a tall woman, I can tell you, tall guys like short women
for the most part. And short guys like tall women. I get hit on by guys who are at least 4" shorter than me, even thought I'm overweight. The tall guys never give me the time of day. They are too busy flirting with the petite women.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #120
129. You know why don't you?
It has to do with sexual positions. :P
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Samurai_Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #129
136. I always thought it was because the tall guys wanted to feel more dominant
and the short guys more submissive.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #85
145. I'm 5'2" and have no problema with men 5'7''
Most of my boyfriends have been about that height.

If a woman's short, being around a man who's real tall makes her look shorter.

But whether I enjoy being around him is more important than height.
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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
94. Very true
I've always had weight problems and have recently dropped 30 pounds gradually. Nothing overly quick. Just a gradual loss of 30 pounds in about a year. I still feel invisible because I've always felt that way. I guess its just a mental thing but societal pressure can really screw with you. My friend gained weight recently because she's on medication. She's incredibly self concious about it. Her co-workers keep commenting on her weight gain. "Wow, you're so big. You should eat less". They continue to make such comments even after she tells them she's on medication. So yes, people can be total jerks.
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raccoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #94
146. This sort of insensitivity is one reason I'm glad I'm in a job where
I'm not around co-workers much.

"Her co-workers keep commenting on her weight gain. "Wow, you're so big. You should eat less". "

I wish she'd tell them to fvck off. It's all they deserve...especially after she's told them about the meds.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
95. As a 'big' woman (size 16) in today's society
I understand the pressure to be thin. But I'm healthy, I work out and try to eat right (I do have a sweet tooth).
But I can truly say that I do NOT feel invisible. I get plenty of attention from men and I'm not looking for it. I'm happily married and often have to remind men of that. But, if I can toot my own horn here, I am attractive. I wear makeup, do my hair in a flattering manner and buy clothes that are flattering to my curves. I'm out-going and love to laugh. Men are attracted to self-confidence. The men that only want very thin women may be in for a disappoint as time goes by. Most people get at least a little rounder as they age.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #95
130. size 16 is not what they were discussing --
the people they were showing were more like size 28 than 16.

I am a 8/10/12 depending on the clothes, and I still feel "fat" sometimes. It's ridiculous.
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
96. I used to be very thin when I was young
And I have a pretty face, so I got a lot of male attention.

When I was 25, I developed a thyroid disorder and gained 30-40 lbs in about 3 months, putting me at somewhat overweight, but not obese. I have gained and lost the same 10 lbs for the last 5 years, so I doubt it's going away any time soon, although I am quite healthy in every other way according to the doctor. Even with medication, it is fairly difficult to lose weight with a thyroid problem. It requires pretty extreme measures (at least for me). Maybe someday I will be ready to exercise 5 hours a day or whatever it will take, but I just can't make that choice right now - it's too hard for me.

The worst part of being overweight, and the reason I still can't seem to accept and love myself this way even though I know that very little of my weight gain is actually my own fault is because of the way other people react to me.

I never realized how well the thin get treated in this country until I got fat. For 25 years of my life I thought people liked me because I was extroverted and fun and interesting and nice. When I got fat I realized that they liked me because I was pretty. My personality didn't change over that three month period, only my outer shell did. But that was enough to become a totally invisible person to the rest of the world. For a long time I kept on trying to be fun and interesting and nice, and kept getting my feelings hurt when people looked past me or through me or chose other people to call to hang out with or all of the other thousands of ways people can indicate they don't like you socially. I finally realized what the problem was after I overheard a co-worker making fun of me by saying something to the effect of "you know those fat girls, they're all desperate to get laid so they flirt with every guy - you just have to ignore them and they'll go away".

I stopped "flirting" with everyone after I heard that. Clearly there was a behavioral standard for fat people in America (don't be too social and nice or people will think you might actually have high self-esteem and we can't have that!) and I just hadn't realized it yet. Stupid me. Now I'm pretty introverted, and I don't trust others like I used to. It might be just as well if I never lost the weight again, because I'm not sure I could help being mean to people who were suddenly nice to me if I were thin and good-looking.

It's hard to explain to "normal" people how shitty and unimportant and worthless you feel as an overweight person in this society. It is the #1 thing that negatively impacts my life and how I relate to others. I have tried talking to my doctors and other people about it, but they just always tell me to exercise more and eat less. They won't even acknowledge the thyroid issue in terms of coming up with an appropriate weight-loss solution for me, much less discuss how being overweight affects my personal life.

I think it was harder for me than other people because I used to be skinny. If I had just always been fat then maybe I would never have realized the difference in the way skinny and fat people get treated. I think it's knowing about the "other side" that makes me so crazy about it.
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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. It's so easy to say so hard to do...
but to hell with them. Only you get to live your life. Don't let others ruin that precious gift. If you read my post you know I'm not thin. I used to be when I was in my 20's and noticed the things you talked about. But I also realized a valuable lesson. People that think that way were not my friends, even when I was thin. I search out, and really have no problem finding, people who are wonderful. I just be myself and those that will like me come to me.
The saying "No one can walk all over you unless you lie down for them first" should be framed and hung on your wall. You are worthwhile and deserve to be treated that way. Don't ask, demand to be treated like a human being. Good luck to you, dear!
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. Sorry, I'll never be that desperate
>"you know those fat girls, they're all desperate to get laid so they flirt with every guy - you just have to ignore them and they'll go away".<

Gosh. I'm only sorry I haven't run into any of the above lately. The last guy who made it clear that I shouldn't be breathing the same air in the room we were both in, let alone actually speaking to him about his work ("horrors! A fat woman is talking to ME!") got a very pointed, "You know, Chris, I don't mean to be rude, but I am not flirting with you. I certainly am not interested in sleeping with you, either."

It really takes the wind out of their sails to imagine that any woman would not find them sexually attractive.

Julie

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azmouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #102
104. Good for you!!!
:yourock:

More people need to speak up to these bullies... yes! bullies... who think they can put
down any woman who doesn't meet their oh-so-high standards.
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One_of_8 Donating Member (289 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #96
123. I just wanted to tell you,
that I know exactly what you are talking about. This thread has been very therapeutic for me, because at least I realize I'm not alone in realizing that people really are reacting much differently to me, now that I'm no longer the right size. It does hurt to realize that people don't really like you for you, but for what you look like. I've been on the other side as well. Life is much easier when you are thin, and even semi-attractive.
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #96
132. I know what you mean ---
When I was first in college, I was a size 4 (I had major body image problems for as long as I can remember, so even then I thought I was terribly overweight and I spent hours every day in the gym--it wasn't good), and I was always the life of the party.

A couple of years later I got pregnant and ended up gaining about 60 lbs. After I had my daughter, I carried that extra weight (most of it anyway) for about 10 months before I decided I couldn't handle it.

The invisibility thing is very true, and very hurtful. I was happy at home--I had a great man and a great baby, but when I was in public, I felt like a freak. It made no sense. I didn't "need" anyone to pay attention to me, but we all need to socialize, ya know?
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
100. Being a fat women is like being a skinny guy
I was thin almost all my life. I never got a date (and I would ask), and I was invisible. I started going to the gym about 3 years ago and, all of sudden, I have all kinds of girls flirting with me. Unlike other guys who may love the attention, I'm kind of repulsed. These are girls who thought they were the shit and wouldn't give me the time of day. I've always been smart and funny, and nothing. I mean, even women who should know better (i.e the invisible fat girls) were to busy pining over Joe Muscle to give me the time of day. I put on 30 pounds of muscle and all of sudden, even the most gorgeous women are flirting and winking at me.

By the way, I'm just posting this to bring attention to some of the other groups people hate. Super thin guys like I was (in my case, a fast metabolism), short people, fat people...they all get this unwarranted hate.

Such is life.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. Evoman, I had to respond
>I mean, even women who should know better (i.e the invisible fat girls) were to busy pining over Joe Muscle to give me the time of day.<

There are a lot of things that determine attraction, at least to me. The physical is a very small part. I've always been much more interested in men who were really smart, self-assured, funny and interesting to talk with than those who could model for GQ.

Julie
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #108
133. "..men who were really smart, self-assured,.."
Hmm, sounds like a certain prosecutor from Chicago.

:hi:
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #133
137. If the shoe fits (or should that be Fitz?)
:hi:

Did I mention that I have impeccable taste in men?

Julie
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
110. Well, here's MY theory of some mens' insistence on stick-thin women
Edited on Thu Mar-30-06 07:13 PM by WinkyDink
with big chests: They want boys with breasts!
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #110
147. agree with ya there
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
112. What about FAT MAN???
American don't hate fat man? Yet, they hate fat women? :wtf: is this all about? I'm beginning to think, media is encouraging people to hate over weight women. This is totally wrong!
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distantearlywarning Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #112
134. I think fat men have problems too.
But it seems like they have an easier time of it in general social interactions than fat women do.

You see it on the sitcoms all the time - fat, ugly, dorky, incompetent guy gets to have a thin, beautiful wife. It's never the other way around. It may not always happen this way in real life, but it's at least socially acceptable to portray fat guys as being attractive to women, being "cool", having friends, or whatever. Fat women are usually portrayed as being pathetic and insecure, and definitely not married to Fabio. It makes me really angry, because I think it sets everybody up with poor expectations about what really happens in life. If the average dumpy guy's wife doesn't look like a supermodel, he's mad, feels inadequate and cheated, and blames her. If she doesn't look like a supermodel at age 40 and 3 kids, she feels inadequate and cheated and blames herself too. And then they have a crappy marriage and she IS pathetic and insecure. Every time I see a stupid sitcom or commercial like that I want to kick the TV. It's screwing us all up.
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philosophie_en_rose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #112
138. Americans love Fat Men: Homer Simpson, King of Queens, According to Jim
Chubby men with thin wives. The only curvy woman I can think of is Mo'Nique - who was ridiculed for lusting after a thinner man.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
117. I'm fat and I don't feel that people hate me
But guys do see me in a non sexual way. I have allot of guy friends. I don't see it as a bad thing since I'm married. But I do wish that I was in better shape so I can be more energetic and look better in cloths.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:41 PM
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131. ttt n/t
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-30-06 09:54 PM
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135. An old Cathy cartoon
from years ago I still remember:

Beach. Cathy and stick thin friend are in bikinis walking along. Two extremely overweight guys watch them. Guy 1 says to Guy 2: The one on the left (Cathy's friend) would be attractive if she'd just lose a little weight."
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