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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 04:01 AM
Original message
BBC runs special report on Iraqi civilians killed by US troops
Edited on Wed Mar-22-06 04:08 AM by TheBaldyMan
In a special report for BBC's Newsnight following up the Time magazine report by Bobby Ghosh on the killing of 15 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in November 2005.

Interviews with two Iraq war veterans after a recent anti-war march in Louisiana raises concerns about the conduct of operations in Iraq.

Spc. Michael Blake an Iraq vet. served in the Balad area, site of an alleged attack that left 11 Iraqi civilians dead - three of them children, he described that what generally happened after an IED attack was anything that moved would be shot up.

Spc. Jody Casey served as a scout/sniper in Baquba area and said that at first 'you could pretty much kill who you wanted' and had been advised always to carry a shovel and AK assault rifle as cover story for any shooting of innocents so he could claim that they were an insurgent or had been digging a scrape to house an IED.

Both soldiers are members of IVAW, Iraq Veterans Against the War.

Newsnight contacted the US DoD for comment and received this reply,
"The US Army Criminal Investigation Command is currently reviewing the allegations and collecting additional information. It is completely logical for subordinates to misunderstand the instructions of highers; we remain resolute in our efforts to assist the Iraqi people in developing a stable, democratic form of government."


In a studio discussion later in the report Ben Griffin, former SAS member who quit over Iraq war was critical of heavy handed techniques: specifically the disproportionate use of force by the US forces on the ground. Phillippe Sands, Professor of International law at UCL, said that if allegations are true then it is a categoric commission of war crimes. David Rivkin, former Whitehouse legal advisor and becoming well known to regular Newsnight audiences as an unashamed apologist for the Bush Administration described the accounts by 'several individuals who are obviously disgruntled former veterans'.

Later in the discussion things got even more interesting when Mr. Sands said once the investigators report the question will be how far up the chain of command with commensurate responsibility does this go. Did the troops get the green light from higher up in the chain of command.

BBC's report on the killings in Haditha and Balad

for those with Java and RealPlayer the programme can be viewed here at Newsnight's homepage (first 16 mins of 45 min) on edit: this is only availiable for 12 hours after my post
but may be availiable as a separate item later on the website.
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Untermonkey Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Only the most brainwashed idiot could possibly believe in this war.
Either that, or he ordered it.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. BBC2 Newsnight and Jeremy Paxman
Wouldn't you just love to see Shrub interviewed by Paxman. He'd shred the lunatic.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. or get Michael Crick to follow Bush around with his camera crew
:evilgrin: either way Bush would be toast.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. They just don't have anchormen/women
of that calibre in the USA. Either that or they are under restraint or heavily biased like Fux News - so called because that's what they do to it. Did you watch the full run of Outfoxed on CH4 a couple of weeks back ? That film exposes Fux for their true worth -SFA.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I missed it myself sadly, welcome to DU btw
If you want to see a great US anchorwoman watch Democracy Now with Amy Goodman, she's one of the best there is.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Thanks
Is this the correct link ? http://www.democracynow.org/
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. that's the one
the show is carried on NPR television in the states and lots of progressive radio stations.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Always a disgruntled former veteran
The disgruntled grunts are always to blame for everything that's wrong with a mismanaged, misguided, misled, politically motivated war. David Rivkin, former Whitehouse legal advisor, might just as well go ahead and spit on the veterans... What does David Rivkin know about fighting a war? Has he been there done that? Probably not but he does know how to kiss Bush's ass, in front of God and everybody and that's what it takes to be "a well known to regular Newsnight audiences as an unashamed apologist for the Bush Administration" and a "Whitehouse legal advisor" and official Bushco Crony Corps/Royal court suckass...

ALWAYS THE VETERAN OR THE SOLDIER'S FAULT...to hear the cowards who were scared to serve in the military themselves:

snip...

Rumsfeld alleged that these draftees "added no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone."

I'll say "then, they were gone!" Of the 58,152 Americans who gave their lives in Vietnam 20,352 of them were draftees. How dare the secretary of defense say these good and brave Americans "added no value, no advantage, to the United States armed services?"

Why would he slander the sacrifice of these brave men, dishonor their memory and rub salt in their families' wounds?

Certainly a man as smart as Rumsfeld knows that the draft was specifically intended to trigger volunteers. Faced with the certainty of a future draft call, many young men chose to "volunteer" because then they could select which branch of the service they preferred and, if qualified, the specialized training they desired. more...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/20/column.shields.opinion.rumsfeld/index.html

ALWAYS...the disgruntled grunts that do all their fighting and dying and then they come home and their LEADERS wipe their feet on them and steal from them! WHY wouldn't a VETERAN be Disgruntled?



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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. ...and then they were gone.
I guess he means, but desisted form saying "and then they were dead" He implies that draftees are just expensive canon fodder. What a wanker.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. He supports the troops!
MY ASS!
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genie_weenie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. It's not just Vets who are disgruntled
Or ungruntled as I called it in Iraq last year. Is gruntled a word?

Why do you think alcoholism, spousal abuse, divorce, depression rock the service?

Service Members "unconsciously" know the leadership of the US don't view them as anything other than a number on a Centcom powerpoint slide.

However, most junior enlisted are 18-21 when they first enlist, they lack the experience to realize what they've signed up for... But, if you're poor and have no future, no hope for college, live in an economically depressed area because all the jobs have been outsourced to Indonesia, well, the service gets you 2 paydays a month, 4+ years of job security and money for school...

None of my friends wanted to miss yet another Christmas in Ramadi/Fallujah last year, but Americans don't care as long as they're wants aren't touched, as long as they can watch football/baseball/basketball everyday, as long as they can hear about the slutty activities of Paris Hilton...

Troops are simply meat for the grinder of the military machine.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Gruntled ain't a word!
Grunt led is two words I guess.

Just like Bullshit!

When you go to getting short they treat you nise! They always want you to re-up for the bennies, but when you sign the papers you go right back to the top of the shit list ASAP! Your military mind had better get with the program 24/7, or they'll call you a disgruntled grunt every time. I noticed Rummy never re-upped! I guess he was too DISGRUNTLED!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Casey: "You could basically kill anyone you wanted"
It is one thing to suspect and quite another to actually hear and see some of the atrocities.

:cry:
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. that's one of the reasons he joined IVAW
both the guys were interviewed just after a peace rally in Louisiana.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. David Rivkin was a spy against the US according to this item...
David Rivkin - Tudjman’s Spy in the United States

Rivkin informed Pasalic of the contents of William Montgomery’s confidential reports to the State Department. This was confirmed by a transcript recently found in the Presidential archives of a conversation dating back to June 21, 1999

David Rivkin, the American attorney who until recently represented Croatia before the Hague Tribunal, was spying for Franjo Tudjman. Rivkin delivered to the late President confidential information and he relayed the contents of confidential docuements which he learned of in Washington. In addition, he informed Tudjman of the contents of what William Montgomery, American ambassador to Croatia, was writing in his confidential reports to the State Department. This was confirmed by a transcript, found in the presidential archives on Pantovcak, of a recorded conversation between Franjo Tudjman and his advisor for internal policy Ivic Pasalic. This conversation was held on June 21, 1999, and began with Pasalic’s verbal report concerning the American delegation which was to visit Dubrovnik and the place where the late American Minister of Commerce Ron Brown was killed in a plane crash. Pasalic actually convinced Tudjman, as the transcript bears witness, to receive this delegation in the Presidential Court, regardless of whether Robert Gelbard was to be a part of the delegation or not. In vaguely promising that Gelbard might be among Tudjman’s guests, Pasalic managed to extort a positive answer from the President. At that point, the advisor stated his desire to be present to witness the signing of a document, likely a pre-contractual agreement, between Croatian Electric and Enron. The conversation then continued on the theme of the Hague Tribunal and Montgomery’s alleged conspiracy against the HDZ regime and Tudjman himself. "David Rivkin was here last week. He claims, Rivkin, this lawyer, he has good connections, especially with the Americans - that according to his information, after all that’s happened, that these in the Hague can no longer attack you directly. But that he is certain that Mrs. Arbour will sign the indictments against our generals before she leaves her post. That this is 90% certain, and that this can be expected in the next three, four, the next three weeks. He returned to his earlier suggestion of raising charges against Milosevic and Serbia before the International Court of Justice. He says that the only way to prevent this, is to go with these charges, with a 90% certainty that this will prevent them from indicting"", said Pasalic. Tudjman cut into his advisor’s speech and said: "Call together the Board which deals with the Hague, and then see". "Yes, this is the only thing I consider important", continued the advisor. "He also said that Montgomery is working against us, directly. I have heard from him and from Zdenka Gast that all this surrounding the intelligence material, thathe has orchestrated all this, and that he"because, he says, he had the chance to see the report. He said that I could only tell you - the report that Montgomery wrote to the State Department and there is no doubt that Montgomery is working to destroy us." Much More....

http://www.balkanpeace.org/cib/cro/cro07.shtml

There is a snake under every rock you turn over in the Bushco Crony Club's criminal membership.
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