Generally the dream of every non-American is to become an American

[NNN0LHI]

Poll question: Generally the dream of every non-American is to become an American

I have known a lot of foreigners. Actually tens of thousands of them. Met them on the two way radio over many years time. From all over the world. From over two hundred different countries. I never meet one person who didn't say their dream was to come and live in America. We have that going for us anyway.

[T Wolf]

1. Disagree, especially now.

The rest of the world looks at us and wonders what caused us to lose our minds.

[NNN0LHI]

2. I didn't say they wanted to be "like" Americans

I said they wanted to live in America. They figure they can talk some sense into the knuckledraggers.

Don

[SoCalDem]

7. The ones I have met said they wanted to "come to" America, but

I am not so sure they wanted to BE Americans after they had spent some time here and saw how stressful life can be here..

A lot depends on what social class they come from and WHY they got here. The people who emigrated because of war (Vietnamese, laotians, Cambodians, Hmong) probably DID want to be citizens because that would assure them continued stays here, since their own countries were either destroyed, or THEY were not welcomed back..

people "of means" are pretty much content to visit and then go home..

[NNN0LHI]

18. These were pretty much people of some means I was speaking to

The hobby itself can be very expensive so that causes people of at least working class to be involved in it.

Don

[1620rock]

3. My dream is to leave America and become a Canadian. n/t

[Grey]

14. That's what I did.

I left the USA and became a Canadian and have never been more glad than I am right now.
I just love this place.

[GliderGuider]

23. Self-delete

[IsItJustMe]

4. How hard is it to become a Canadian Citizen?

[mattclearing]

19. Dunno about citizenship, but immigration is a bitch. n/t

[MADem]

32. If you are rich, it is easy; otherwise you need a skill n/t

[incapsulated]

5. Uh, no...

I haven't met too many Europeans or Canadians who want to become Americans. Have you?

[NNN0LHI]

10. I have met thousands of Europeans who wanted to live here

Might have something to do with people who like the radio hobby? They seemed to really like America. That was my general impression. Some Canadians too. Lot of Canadians spend half the year or more in America. Snow birds. I knew some of them too.

Don

[incapsulated]

15. Thousands, eh?

Whatever you say.

[NNN0LHI]

21. Hey buddy. Fuck off if you don't want to take my word. OK?

See you later.

Don

[incapsulated]

26. ooOOOooo, you called me a name!

I'm crushed.

Hey, Buddy, next time you don't want people to dismiss you, why don't you think twice before posting topic like:

Generally the dream of every non-American is to become an American

And then proceed to claim you vouch for literally thousands of people you know personally.

[IsItJustMe]

37. HMMM sometimes I wonder..

[July]

6. I know lots of foreigners, too.

And I don't know any who have been dreaming of becoming an American. Most of them seem pretty happy with whatever citizenship they have. Some do want to visit here, or have done so, and some even live here with green cards, but I have yet to meet one who wants to change his nationality.

[pitohui]

24. it just sounds a bit creepy, don't it?

sort of like the old guy down the block who is convinced every black guy really wants to be white

or every gay guy secretly wants to be straight

statements like this say more abt arrogance and a sense of "we're better than everybody else" than they do abt reality

[July]

I think many Americans, without really thinking about it,

assume that everyone would want to become an American if they had the chance, and probably don't realize how weird that sounds to people who are comfortable with their own national identity. It is a bit arrogant, but sometimes I think it's just shallowness or lack of experience of other cultures that's part of it.

I've had the very interesting experience of living abroad for seven years, and I was never once asked when or if I would become a citizen of that country.

[pitohui]

8. a silly and pernicious claim

i take it you've never been to europe?

it's this kind of ugly lie that makes people find americans so arrogant and distasteful

what frenchman wants to become an american? what briton does? hell, even the more moderately well-informed 3rd and 4rth world immigrants know that life is better in ireland than in usa, they just take what they can get and it's easier to swim the rio grande into texas than the atlantic ocean

[northzax]

20. well, given that there is a twenty year waiting list

for green cards from the UK and 15 from France, I'd say quite a few of them. since that annual quota is roughly 26,000 people/year, I'd say roughly 520,000 brits and 390000 frenchmen and women have filed the paper work to get permanent residency in the US in the past 15-20 years.

on edit: and the lists only get longer every year, which means more and more people are applying, even with Bush in charge.

[pitohui]

22. does the word "spouses" hold meaning for you?

it is not because they think americans are better and they should be one, it's because they fell in love w. an individual american

[northzax]

27. that's not simply the spouse line

that's anyone with any connection to an American Citizen through family besides marriage to one (that's a seperate category, there is no waiting list for marriage green cards, once you complete the application process you are issued one, regardless of the people in line for other ones. These are people who say "my cousin bob lives in the US, I want to as well." it doesn't include the roughly 50,000 Marriage exceptions or the 25-30 H1-Bs every year.

and yes, I spend a lot of time on immigration issues, so if you want more information, please feel free to ask.

[liberal N proud]

9. Maybe at one time a majority of the world population would like to have

moved to America, but they would be nuts now.

[LSK]

11. i know people who moved here from Greece and are now moving back

[JanMichael]

12. Well let's see. I lived in Poland for about 5 years in the 90's.

Of the Poles not ONE of my friends wanted to "become american", not one. Of course they visited the States but they always went home, except for Michal who teaches in Quebec now.

Let's see, what about the Germans and Norwegians and Swedes? A very big NO.

Oh and let's add in my old chum Scott from New Zealand, NO. He's either in London or Budapest now. Alas I can never forget Andzej who I belive is now in Warszawa.

Why? Plastic Corpo culture, hamburger mindsets, and cowboy morans don't appeal to those folks that I know.

Sorry:-)

[Oeditpus Rex]

13. I should think most people

would rather remain in their own countries and help fix whatever's wrong with them, or at least be first-hand witnesses as it's fixed.

Just like most of us.

:patriot:

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

16. I'm an alien of the legal variety here since 87

and never in my life did I want to come to the U.S. and become American. It just happened by necessity (my father working for an Italian subsidiary in the U.S.) and eventually I married a U.S. citizen. To this day, I have not yet naturalized and when I do I will retain my Italian citizenship.

What I did want to do when I was young was to experience the world and its cultures and I think that by living here in the U.S. I have partially accomplished that, especially living in NYC with so many languages and ethnicities surrounding me.

Since I deal with foreign artists, models, entertainers and professionals on a daily basis, I have yet to hear one say they want to get a visa or green card because it was a dream; rather, they do it for their work and some end up marrying U.S. citizens.

[malaise]

17. My oldest sister was born in the US

quite by accident since my parents were returning home from Europe by ship in the mid 40s and mum went into labour in the New York harbour. All of my other sibblings have US citizenship, but I don't even have a green card - by choice. Interestingly my oldest sister gave up her citizenship during the Vietnam War. She lives in Europe and none of her kids ever wanted US citizenship.

Edit - add other

[GliderGuider]

25. No sirree!

I was born in Boston when my folks were going to school, but I have never, ever, even for one second of the last 55 years wanted to be an American. Even when things were going OK down south the US felt like an uncomfortable place for human beings to live. These days the nation simultaneously frightens and horrifies me. Move there? Not a snowball's chance in Iraq.

[arcos]

28. Not true...

Maybe the tens of thousands you've met said that, but to say that "generally" that's the dream of a non-US citizen is absolutely false.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. Talk to a Canadian, or a Brit, or a French person or a mexican, or

an Aussie, or a Japanese person.

There are plenty of people the world over who aren't interested in leaving their home and culture and becoming an American.

There are people who would like to visit America.

There are some who dream of moving to America.

People have a lot of different dreams, desires and things to consider.

[MADem]

30. Something else

SOME, especially those from underdeveloped nations, like the idea of coming to America to work hard and make a success of themselves. They still see this country as a land of opportunity.

OTHERS, who for the most part are from well developed nations with strong cultural ties, who have good jobs and loving family, and who take issue with some of our imperialistic pursuits around the world, would rather be dragged behind a bus than sign on as a citizen.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. Speaking as a non-American, no it isn't.

[Dead_Parrot]

33. Nope...

Bearing in mind that just about everybody I've known has been a 'furriner', I can't off hand think of anyone who wanted to become an American. I've met a few Americans who want to leave, though... :)

[Solon]

34. Out of the 6 billion plus people on the planet, many...

mostly from underdeveloped countries would LOVE to come here, but that is simply trading a horrible situation with a bad one. No offense, but I'm an American who would VASTLY prefer to be a Non-American of the European or Canadian variety, preferably.

[me b zola]

35. My experiences have been quite different

In high school we had three foreign exchange students (not at the same time). One was from Norway, one from Iran, and one from Brazil (does that mean I have talked to a brazillion foreigners ? :P ) Not only did none of our exchange students want to live (stay) here, but they were amused by how Americans often thought that foreigners suffer from, for lack of a better term, US envy. Most of the people that I have met from foreign lands believe that Americans are arrogant to believe that everyone wants to be like US.

[geniph]

36. I've never yet met a New Zealander

who DID want to become a U.S. citizen. Nor have I met many Aussies, Canadians, or western Europeans who did.

I, on the other hand, would emigrate to New Zealand in a New York minute if I thought I'd qualify.

[baby_mouse]

38. ? Not really.

...no.

People want to stay where they are because that's their home. That's what home's are for.

I don't want to be American. I'm Scottish, from Edinburgh. Why would I want to be American? I live in the most beautiful city in the most beautiful country in the world! To my eyes, at least. Perhaps if I'd been born in the States my heart would yearn for that country.

[NNN0LHI]

39. I think it may be somewhat related to the radio hobby itself

The types of two way radio communications I was making were always in english. And not the Queens english either. American english with its slangs and all. Which means whomever was involving themselves in the hobby had to go to the trouble of learning American english well first, which is not easy, and may indicate a built in predisposition to emigrate to America even before they picked up the radio hobby. That is what I am starting to think.

And just in case anyone is wondering two-way radio is HUGE in Italy. Must be the Marconi in them?

Don

[oblivious]

40. That's true, and reuniting families is a big part of immigration.

The US is a land of huge numbers of immigrants so the reuniting goes on to a greater extent than in other countries. The fact that it was a land of opportunity was obviously a big factor in the past. Not so today.