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kevinam Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:22 PM
Original message
DUI defense lawyers challenge breath test...
snip
The company that makes the Intoxilyzer refused to reveal the computer source code for its machine because it was a trade secret. A county judge tossed out Muldowny's alcohol breath test a crucial piece of evidence in a DUI case and the ruling was upheld by an appeals court in 2004.

another snip

"Any piece of equipment that is used to test something in the criminal justice system, the defense attorney has the ability to know how the thing works and subject its fundamental capabilities to review," said Flem Whited III, a Daytona Beach attorney with expertise on DUI defense.
end snips.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060311/ap_on_re_us/dui_bre...

The reason I posted this is because I thought this was similar to the problems with the diebold equipment. If memory serves me correct diebold refused to release source code for how their equipment is programmed. Certainly elections are important enough that the state and voters should have "the ability to know how the thing works"

Kevin
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good find. Recommended.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have registered on a BAT test after drinking COFFEE! n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. With or without a shot in it???
That was a joke, mind you....
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Anybody who flunks a breathalyzer test should INSIST on a serum
alcohol test. If you're blotto, that test will confirm it. If you're not and the breathalyzer needed to be calibrated, the serum alcohol test will exonerate you.
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. The court's decision seems to echo your comparison
From the link:

"It seems to us that one should not have privileges and freedom jeopardized by the results of a mystical machine that is immune from discovery," Florida's 5th District Court of Appeal ruled in Muldowny's case, which resulted in his charges being reduced to reckless driving.
;-)
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northofdenali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. That quote could easily apply to
voting machines!

"It seems to us that one should not have privileges and freedom jeopardized by the results of a mystical machine that is immune from discovery,"
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nuxvomica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It sounds like precedent to me
I'm not a lawyer but I would think that decision could even be used to support a voter's suit in Florida. It at least shows the appeals court's concern for the protection of trade secrets against individual rights. I don't think the OP was "stretching" things a bit.
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Comadreja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. Especially with the dearth of Public Defenders
The DUI circus is a money mill, extracting a fortune and ruining the criminal and driving records of thousands. First-time offenders who have not driven recklessly or caused damage used to be given several warnings. Now cops get a bounty for DUI busts because the County makes so damn much money from them.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Money Mill is correct. The State of Michigan now gets a $1,000
Windfall per DUI paid directly to the State. This is on top of all court costs, Lawyer fees and other headaches. The key here is to NOT drink or drive they will ruin your life for good.
My license is my job so I quit drinking all together and I know it has saved me the DUI headache that this State has created. Three bears in an hour and you are legally drunk here in Michigan.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Three bears?? Wow, you must be LOADED! lol
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Sleepy when I wrote that and didn't edit the spelling, LOL.
Our B.A.C levels are so low here in Michigan, the State keeps lowering it to make more cash.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Same here, we're at .08. < 1 drink for an average sized woman.
it's all about the income stream.
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Exactly, in Wyoming Michigan they want to start charging you for the
Police call when you have an accident and it's your fault. Michigan is always the extreme end of the fines and taxes stupidity. I think ours is .06 I will have to google the B.A.C.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. The lawyer's name is Flem?
:shrug:

--IMM
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good one, Kevin.

Yes, Diebold, and many of the other voting vendors, don't provide the public access to the software that counts our votes.

So, unlike the suit you post about, were an unverifible system is used to accuse someone of being drunk, we have a scenario where an unverifible system is used to elect one who is.

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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Can someone sue Diebold and use this as precedent? nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't know.

But Paul Lehto, DUs "Land Shark", has this suit going against Sequoia.

http://www.votersunite.org/info/lehtolawsuit.asp

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