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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:54 PM
Original message
Castro/Cuba Upset Over Baseball Incident
As much as we need drastic change here in the USA, I have never fallen for those who look to Cuba as an example. While I admire some of the social progress, the totalitarian boot is worse than anything in the United States. Check out the latest:
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=171036...

SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico Mar 10, 2006 (AP) While Cuba played the Netherlands in the World Baseball Classic, a spectator in the stands raised a sign saying: "Down with Fidel," sparking an international incident that escalated Friday with the velocity of a major league fastball.

The image of the man holding the sign behind home plate was beamed live Thursday night to millions of TV viewers including those in Cuba. The top Cuban official at the game at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan rushed to confront the man. Puerto Rican police quickly intervened and took the Cuban official Angel Iglesias, vice president of Cuba's National Institute of Sports to a nearby police station, where they lectured him about free speech.

"We explained to him that here the constitutional right to free expression exists and that it is not a crime," police Col. Adalberto Mercado was quoted as saying in El Nuevo Dia, a San Juan daily.

The brouhaha gathered steam Friday when Cuba's Communist Party newspaper, Granma, called the sign-waving "a cowardly incident." Cuba's Revolutionary Sports Movement exhorted Cubans to demonstrate in Havana late Friday, saying U.S. and Puerto Rican authorities were involved in "the cynical counterrevolutionary provocations."

A sign. At a baseball game.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I looked
and didn't see it posted. How is it "telling"? If I post something against Cuba, I must be a Republican? Weird logic. I simply think that this story is another example of power that corrupts. Cuba, USA, Russia....absolute power corrupts, absolutely. Sorry to offend you!
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. here's how the fbi prevents this from happening with anti-bush signs...
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. How is that?
I didn't see anything saying no signs. I might have missed it though.

I do know that many arenas and ballparks have no political sign policies (politics of any kind).
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
31. It's about seven pages back on the "latest" pages.
Not shocking that you didn't see the earlier post.
Fuck you Fidel.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Have some stones and come out and call someone a freeper...
which is kind of funny since this is not a dupe, there is one thread in Latest Breaking and one in the GD.

Your reaction to the OP is more telling than anything the OP did.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
2. How would the security at an international sporting event
anywhere in the US if a fan held up a sign Down with Bush.
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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. I have done it!
I did it at a Wizards game about a month ago! Do you not protest with signs ever? Did you get thrown in jail? I didn't either.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. Viva Fidel! ... Viva Cuba Libre!
Welcome to DU! :hi:

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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Castro should know better. Now if it were
a sign at a SF Giant's game (fully prohibited) then we would understand the reason for the sign-carring person being arrested and charged.
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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Wow!
I am surprised at the reaction. I hate Bush and I think America is fast moving towards a police state. But what's all this support for FIDEL? Maybe I am at the wrong place if I must be a Castro-loving brand of Democrat to post here without attacks. I'm a bit taken aback.
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I think it is the hypocrisy that we are countering, not
endorsing all of Castro's actions.

After all, the United States is fully engaged in human rights violations on the island of cuba. Not to mention the rest of the planet.
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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Sooo...
With that logic, everytime we point out something bizzare from another country, we must mention that WE do dumb stuff too? Every other post we make is about OUR dumb stuff. How dare I mention another country acting stupid without stipulating that America is stupid too. Sorry, but that's weird logic to me.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. You don't get it
the rest of the world is sick of your double standards. Bush has destroyed any credibility the US had re human rights or democracy. He and his goons have violated international law, murdered thousands of people in their homeland, spied and lied to his own people.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. So what? It isn't Bush or the US gov't making the critique
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 05:36 PM by rinsd
This isn't some zero sum game where if Cuba is bad the US becomes better or vice versa.

And the whole glass houses thing? I must have missed your castigating of Fidel for criticizing Bush assuming you actually hold to that principle.

Personally, I really don't care what Bush or Fidel say about each other as I think they're both assholes.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Hi and welcome New Government
you don't have to like Castro to post at
Democratic Underground
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. The sign carrying guy was not arrested
The Cuban guy that confronted him was taken away by the police and they explained free speech to him.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Cuba's Revolutionary Sports"
:wtf: is so revolutionary about their sports?
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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. I am a left-leaning Libertarian
I'm a lefty Libertarian who votes DEMOCRAT 95% of the time. I get attacked for pointing out how repressive government can be sometimes because it's Cuba. I FAILED to point out (in this post, at least) that the USA can be a bad place too - so that makes me "suspect."

I just learned a lot about Democratic Underground. Maybe there's no room for those of us that hate ALL repression. Here, there and everywhere.

Christ!!
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Relax....
People tend to be suspicious of new people and the reality is that rwers do "infiltrate" here.

I would give it some time before you take on hot button issues as the thread starter, you'll get shit just because of your post count.

Take care and welcome to DU.

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New Government Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks - advice well taken....nt
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 05:21 PM by New Government
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Loge23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Free speech works both ways
"The top Cuban official at the game at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan rushed to confront the man. Puerto Rican police quickly intervened and took the Cuban official Angel Iglesias, vice president of Cuba's National Institute of Sports to a nearby police station, where they lectured him about free speech."

Nice. That's awful kind of the Puerto Rican officials. Just to hammer in our point about "free speech, we'll take him into the cooler and give him a refresher course!
If it's OK to hold up the sign (and it is, of course) than it's OK to be confronted by someone who doesn't agree.

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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. "confronted by someone who doesn't agree"
When that person is an official of the government you are protesting?



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NoAmericanTaliban Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Welcome to DU. I enjoyed your post.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. Am I missing something?
I would have rather seen the Cuban officials just ignore the man with the sign but I don't see any reference to indicate that they did anything other than disagree with him. Puerto Rico officials on the other hand detained the Cuban official and lectured him about free speech before letting him go.

What did Cuba do wrong here again?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Cuban officals sat right behind the man (apprently)
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 05:40 PM by rinsd
(qualifier, these photos were posted on an anti-Castro website)







"What did Cuba do wrong here again?"

You would find nothing wrong with an official of the US government taking personal issue with a protester and personally confronting them in another country? The mind boggles.

On edit: I do want to add that I did find it ironic that the Cuban officials were taken to a police stattion to explain what freedom of speech is.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Well, like I said
I'd rather they had ignored him, but simply confronting him is not exactly Gestapo-like. If they did anything other than disagree with him they stepped out of line. So far though, I have seen no reference that they did.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. See Espn's article....
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/worldclassic2006/news/sto...

"Cuba unsuccessfully tried to get the fan's sign removed, and in protest, the Cuban team did not participate in the post-game news conference.

<snip>

Pat Courtney, vice president of public relations for Major League Baseball, told ESPN " feel they have done everything they can to play in the tournament, and they'd like this request honored, and it's upsetting to them ... but they have no recourse."

And no its not quite the Gestapo, but the reactions to this are interesting vs. if Bush had done this.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. I know the guy who runs therealcuba.com
Whackjob freeper.

He was in full support of the Taliban (for being anti commie, no matter what their policies toward free speech, women's rights, etc, were).

Then came 9-11. He changed his tune fast.


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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. And that's why I have qualified any and all reference to them...
...but they actually posted the guy's story supposedly in his own words. So even taken with a huge grain of salt I thought it was worth it for people to try to get the whole picture.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Ok. Cool. Thanks.
:hi:

--

One has to admit that Cuban security has to be on guard against Miamicuban exile wingnuts who might want to create a diversion for some "activity". They do have a history.





click on the pic to find out why

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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. So what's the difference between this incident and Bush's intolerance?
..of dissent?

People are arrested for wearing certain T-shirts in the United States.

People are arrested in the United States for yelling at elected officials in a public arena.

The hypocrisy of the United States is disgusting
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. self delete...basically repeating myself
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 06:20 PM by rinsd


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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Hey, at least we have "free speech zones"
try that in Cuba or China!
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. I've seen protests in Cuba with my own eyes.
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 05:27 AM by Mika
Anti government protests I'm talking about. Nothing happened to anyone (as long as they are not aiding or abetting the declared enemies of the Cuban state).

Cuba is nothing like the Cubaphobic propaganda most Americans are inculcated with.


The anti government organizations that are busted up are those on the declared enemy of the Cuban state payroll (IOW, on the US gov and Miamicuban exile terra groups payroll).

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