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MIAMI: "Comments on gays broadcast at school raise furor"

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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:36 PM
Original message
MIAMI: "Comments on gays broadcast at school raise furor"


http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14062839.htm



Comments on gays broadcast at school raise furor
A teacher who condemned homosexuality as part of a broadcast at Miami Sunset Senior High has come under fire, as have administrators who failed to screen the program.
BY MATTHEW I. PINZUR
mpinzur@MiamiHerald.com
On the first day, a few students talked about supporting gay rights, and no one paid much attention.

On the second day, a school counselor talked about respecting each other, and no one paid much attention.

On the third day, a few students spoke against homosexuality and a teacher said it is ''wrong according to the Bible'' -- and people noticed very much.

That final segment of a Miami Sunset Senior High television project roiled the normally placid West Dade campus, drew sharp response from both students and teachers and has raised questions about the free exchange of ideas and religion in public schools
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Free Exchange of Hate, More Like
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's so easy to hate on gays nowadays, it used to be blacks a while back.
Hmmmm. I wonder who is next? Liberals maybe?
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. while gay folk will take the very worst of the attacks --
women{read feminists} and liberals are on the bar b que as well since reagan.

they do not mean us well -- and if timothy mcveigh is any indication and i think it is -- they'll go as far as they think they have to.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Our schools are not the place to wage political wars.
Just as it was wrong of one teacher to excoriate bush during a geography lecture, it is also wrong to let a fundie teacher excoriate gays during a high school broadcast.

I grew up in a small town and vividly remember being told by certain teachers that my beliefs were not only wrong but hated by God. I don't think I will ever be able to truly forgive either of them for their hatred of my morals and beliefs. Whenever a teacher lectures on morals or politics to children, he/she attempts to negate their growth, whether it be conservative or liberal, Christian or Atheist.

Of course, both of these teachers have an absolute right to say anything they wish and promote any legal activity off school grounds and and after school hours.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. human geography, not geography... How can a teacher abstain from talking
about politics when HUMAN GEOGRAPHY = POLITICS
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:18 PM
Original message
Would you stand up for this guy if he was pro bush?
I agree with every word the geography teach said, but it was still inappropriate and unethical to lecture students during school hours - especially in a situation where they were not there voluntarily.

Human geography "deals with people and their environment - from cities to transportation to religion to food." http://geography.about.com/cs/culturalgeography /

The teaching of that class could and should be taught without involving detailed politics of the United States president or of a particular political party. It should also be taught without making judgments on any particular religion.

Sorry, but I believe in being honest with myself. To say that it's okay to denigrate bush or repubs in a classroom yet believe it's wrong to do the same to progressives would be hypocrisy to me.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. culture is holistic, it is impossible to teach it without including
every aspect of a culture, including politics and particulars. Particulars make up a culture.

It is like saying lets talk about history, but not talk about the civil war or WWII because they are controvertial...

Of course I would believe the same thing if the teacher was RW and had stated it in the same fashion (opinion based and not end all be all).
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Then we are going to have to disagree - greatly.
Having been on the receiving side of this kind of thing has certainly helped provide me my perspective. Having been told that God wanted me to tell my parents to vote for reagan and that Carter was an ineffectual liberal as were all liberals, definitely made me angry in 1980. Being forced to pray in elementary school wasn't that pleasant, either.

I think the worst thing we can do is to politicize or moralize our children's education. It may be fine for those who already agree with the teacher, but it's Hell to feel excluded as a kid. It either causes conformity or self exclusion.

Also, we can teach the facts of both the Civil War and WWII without the hyperbole of calling all white people in the south ignorant and greedy or calling all Germans monsters. We could easily tell the facts and let the students come up with their own moral conclusions. Telling them what to think certainly hasn't ended racism or classism or sexism....
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Karmakaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
13. You are wrong - simple as that.
The only thing that teacher could do wrong is to refuse to talk about liberals and their beliefs in any kind of negative way. Do you think we would have heard about it if this same teacher had been criticsing Clinton during his term? Of course not! But do I think it happened? You're damn right I do!

The whole point of his class was to discuss modern culture. If you seriosuly believe that the policies of the Presdient of the United States do not have a major bearing on the social, political, religious and economic lives of ALL the worlds people then you probably need to take one of his classes. And if you seriously believe he wouldnt have done the same thing during the time of Clinton, then you probably need to avoid listening to right-wing propaganda.

In the current case there is a difference - firstly it wasn't a part of a class dealing with human culture, but one dealing with television production. There was no need for the subject to be such a flashpoint one. Secondly by participating in the interview, the teacher lent an air of authority - some students say gay is ok, same say it is not, but the teacher then says its not, and many students may question their own opinion based on the perceived authority of the teacher.

I wouldnt have had a major problem with this if it had purely been student opinions because the students carry the same wieght in their arguments. A teacher has some authority over students and thus should not make such personal opinions public. Will any gay students feel they will get a fair deal from that teacher from now on? I don't think so. They now know she hates them, not for what they have done but for who they are. How could they NOT think she is going to be biased against them?
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I'm glad it's so simple for you.
And as I don't feel like having a discussion with someone who thinks so simply, I'll leave it at that.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. I am torn here
part of me says that the comments were out of line given the way a gay kid might feel about them. But if the school is going to allow pro gay messages, it probably has to allow anti gay ones too.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I couldn't disagree with you more.
Are racist messages okay at schools? When teachers tell their students that blacks used to be legally considered a fraction of a human, is it okay for them to say, "And it should still be that way!"?

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Society has largely settled this issue
in regards to race but hasn't in regards to our rights. Sadly it is an issue of contraversey right now and is likely to remain one for quite some time.
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Brazenly Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. You know what? I apologize.
I guess I might be a little hotheaded on this issue because I'm a mom and moms are a little fierce when their progeny are threatened. Normally, I'm pretty nonviolent, but I'd like to rip the heads off any assholes who would say something like that to either of the two terrific gay men I raised. Seriously, you can't imagine the anger. If that had happened when my boys were in school, I would have been over there the next day demanding the teacher be fired. And horsewhipped. And pelted with large blunt objects.

I do disagree with you, but it's not for me to say where you should draw the line.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I have a big thing about free speech because
I know that as a minority my speech will be first to go.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. The problem isn't the message...
It's the messanger. Teachers should not be pushing their politics or their morals on their students during any organized school event.

And to put your comments in perspective, if a student goes on air advocating equal rights for blacks should we allow another student to offer a counter view? That's all we're talking about here - equal rights.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. The teacher was directly asked
her opinion and gave it. It probably was bad judgement on the part of the students to ask teachers as opposed to students only. And she probably should have abstained from answering. But teachers do have a right to opinions on issues of contraversy.
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It was bad judgment and she does have the right to her opinions.
Just not on school time or during school events. I understand your point and I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just saying that if we let our educators push their political and ethical views on students they deprive them of their rights.

I will say that I'm not as upset over this as I am regarding the Human Geography teach who forced his views on kids who had no choice but to sit in his class and listen. At least this was a radio show that could be switched off.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hmmmm...will this be broadcast on Fox like the Bennish
thing was?

Probably not.
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KurtNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. Do these hypo-Christian types ever quote Jesus?!
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 04:51 PM by KurtNYC
12 disciples, lots of of things mentioned by JC and not one word about gays. Do they think Jesus just forgot to mention the subject? and yet they have made this the center of their version of Christianity.

Sermon on the Mount anyone? anyone? ...Bueller.
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