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How do you fee about abortion rights as a litmus test?

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:01 PM
Original message
How do you fee about abortion rights as a litmus test?
For myself, I wouldn't support a candidate just because they are pro-choice, but I will never vote for any candidate that is anti-choice.

Is this common?
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. I would say so
I have the same attitude as you. The trend may be different from state to state, but in Oregon, it would be suicidal for a candidate to be loudly anti-choice.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Nor will I. Never. Under NO circumstances.
If I don't have the right to determine what goes on with my own body, I have no other rights. That right is basic to all others.

If I lived in Pa, I'd be voting Green. There is no way I could vote either party in the race to unseat Santorum.

That's where the line is, guys. Respect it or ignore it at your peril.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is a litmus test for me.
Being anti-slavery, I don't vote for people who advocate putting anyone in the kind of bondage that says that the state owns your body.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. For me the greater issue is privacy or autonomy.
And abortion rights falls into that category.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Good point, and it reminds me of another question I've had for years.
Has the SCOTUS ever thrown out a whole issue, not just legislation, as being outside the purview of government?

Could they? If so, this is definitely one of those. IMO.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Me too.
Keep the healthcare, life/death, and reproductive decisions out of the hands of Government. (Period emphasized)
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Absolutely,
No anti-choice candidate will get my support. Being pro-choice is not enough, but it is an absolute requirement.
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Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm sure it is . . .
. . . but then I have many litmus papers for different issues:

Pro-Choice
Anti-war
Pro-environmental protection
Global warming is critical and must be dealt with now
Anti-corporate takeover of the world
Safe and clean alternative energy is critical
Protection of organic standards

Anyone who is against any of these is not likely to get my vote, even if they are super-democrats.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Only in blue states.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. ? Elaboration please? I'm not sure what that means. Thank you.
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I view it as individual rights and privacy rights
I will never vote for a candidate who believes he can legislate citizen choices based on his personal religious beliefs.
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Well, it's a fairly good gauge of their view of individual autonomy
I am a civil libertarian above all else. To me, any politician who preoccupies themselves with litigious crusades against the bodies and thoughts of consenting adults is both dangerous and incompetent.

I go back to Barry Goldwater, who rightly said many times that "you can't legislate morality", and to Benjamin Franklin, who decried laws and tests that are not only wrong, but hopelessly ineffective as they "not so much...secure Religion itself, as the Emoluments of it" (letter To Richard Price, 9 October 1780).
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. I would've guessed that this is, rightly, a common view among Democrats
and their constituents, so how do we end up with Harry Reid as minority leader?
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. I will never vote for any candidate that is willing to disregard my
rights as a woman in order to get elected by some imaginary "base". :hi:
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think choice is BOTTOM LINE for the Dem platform., Period.
we have a few pro life Dems running for office here in CO and it is very controversial. Why can't we just say it and be proud? It's not like we are pro-abortion. NOBODY is "pro-abortion" for heaven's sake. We are Democrats and we value CHOICE, damn it! We don't like the government forcing birth on us for some religious farce. This country is not ONLY CAtholics, we have to have choice for everyone else!
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. I agree it is fundamental to a progressive agenda.
FWIW I am pro-abortion in many cases, but since I don't have a uterus, my opinion is only that and as such doesn't/shouldn't count outside of my personal life.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. that's why talking about Choice rather than "abortion" is important
choice is for everybody, not just women, and it follows a theme in the American Narrative instead of being bogged down in moral semantics.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Abortion Rights?It's Civil Rights,Right To Privacy & Self Determination.
Sorry, but I no longer discuss this issue in terms of "right to an abortion".
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trixie Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. I agree
Clinton had said he was pro-life personally but pro-choice ethically. He gave his personal view, which is his right but he knew that his view was not the view that governs this country. He stood by the Constitution and freedom for women.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. As I said in another thread
The only anti-choice politician for whom I would vote would be a progressive anarchist/libertarian, who believed that, for whatever reason, that all life was "sacred." That person would have to be mostly ideologically pure -- vegan, would refuse new medical advancements that are tested on animals, and be anti-war.

That is just about the ONLY case, in which I would vote for an anti-choice candidate. Would I vote for an anti-choice Democrat? No. And I would never vote for a Republican.

As a litmus -- abortion is not the most important issue to me. Authoritarianism is, however. That said, anyone who was not pro-choice, at least legally if not personally, would be an authoritarian. The only type of individual that could pull off being anti-choice and a non-authoritarian would have to be someone with a hell of a logical argument, ideological purity, and that would be the ONE exception.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. That is a position I hadn't considered, and now I have to re-asses
my position too. I'm pretty sure there is no possibility that such a person could ever get far in politics.
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. That's how I feel

...that's my line in the sand. I will NEVER vote for someone who is anti-choice.

Cheers
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Not for me.
I prefer a pro-choice candidate, but I will not vote for a candidate that puts the interests of the wealthy over those of working people - that's my litmus test.

I could see myself holding my nose and voting for a progressive who was against abortion (think pre-2004 Dennis Kucinich) over a right-leaning pro-choice candidate like a Bill Clinton.

I care more that the kids already here are fed than I do about access to abortion, which is mostly used as bait by the right to con fundies into voting for them. Sorry, but those are my priorities.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. No apologies necessary (at least for me) I posted this to get alternative
viewpoints, and I'm happy to say I've already heard from two of you that make me look again.
Like many others here I view it as an issue of personal liberty, after all, if we allow our government to establish a woman's uterus as property of the state, there is no freedom left. I really can't imagine anything more anti-American.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I'm a human before I'm an American.
And the idea of kids living in squalor and hunger bothers me more than the idea of a woman getting a back-alley abortion (as bad as that is, she is at least an adult and better able to fend for herself than a child).

I also don't believe that the GOP really wants to ban abortion, but rather want to pretend to try and ban it for their idiot base - thus they try to pass little restrictions, or laws that they know will be struck down, etc.

It's an obvious con game to me, but their fundie followers continue to lap it up, decade after decade...
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. As a person with a uterus...
damn straight it is a litmus test with me!

Because being pro-choice is about much more than whether or not I can terminate a pregnancy -- it's fundamental indicator of how the State views me and addresses my civil rights. If the State (or a candidate) determines I am not much more than a walking baby oven and that they should have control over me against my wishes, my health, and my religious beliefs -- they are in effect telling me I am not a full citizen of this country.

And to those who would dare say that, I say "FUCK YOU".

With that said, I have voted for one anti-choice candidate in my life, Dennis Kucinich, and only because he promised that he would take no action to overturn Roe v. Wade. I felt he was an honorable man who I could trust to keep his promise, and he was 100% with me on every other issue that is important to me. It was a first for me in 20+ years of voting.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hey, I don't want anyone who advocates breeding criminals.
That's what outlawing abortion brings. More burglaries, assaults, and batteries.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. Would you support a pro-choice republican
over an anti-choice democrat? Or would you not vote for that office? Or perhaps you would vote 3rd party? There are a few pro-choice repubs out there, is why I ask.

Also, I'm reading "Crashing the Gate" & the authors discuss how one-issue voting can hurt the overall progressive cause. I've been a two-issue voter for sometime now (choice being one of the issues), but after reading this am re-thinking if I should be so rigid.

Curious what you & others think.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Well, my answer, if I understand your scenario correctly, is that if
everything (or nearly everything) else is equal, yes I would vote for the re :puke: over the Democrat. I believe in people, American ideals, and liberty over party. (Check the Eisenhower quote in the sig)
Now if the re :puke: is a typical advocate of the ruling class over the citizens, then I'm voting for a third party.
This is the one issue that I will not accept any compromise on. If a candidate could advocate the threat or use of violence to impose a religious view on others, what wouldn't they be capable of?
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. That's about how I feel about it
I also won't vote for a candidate who is anti-free speech, anti-due process, anti-right to keep and bear arms, etc.

All individual liberties are important to me.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. It is personally not an issue
that I consider at the moment. I have in the past; I don't now because there are other issues that take precedence in my world view.
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Sgent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
31. Better question...
In a race between Arlen Spectre and Bob Casey, which would you vote for?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Neither. A choice between a fascist and a misogyinist is no choice.
That's why we have 3rd parties and write-in candidates.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Zactly n/t
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