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How Many of You Think of Abortion as a Strictly Medical Procedure

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:18 PM
Original message
How Many of You Think of Abortion as a Strictly Medical Procedure
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 12:19 PM by lionesspriyanka
with absolutely no judgments or justification (such as necessary evil) etc.

I think of it really as a medical procedure (though like all surgery, one i don't want to have)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. its a medical procedure (with lots of baggage)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. Me too -- and all of the (Christian) nursers in my family agree
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wordpix2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. I do
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. I don't.
I am vehemently pro-choice, but I believe life begins at conception. How another person chooses to deal with being pregnant is none of my business. I kind of live like that bumper sticker that says "Don't like abortion? Don't have one".

No one has the right to dictate to me or any other woman which procedures she can or can't have.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. My view is very similar
I base my view on abortion on my humanist values and believe that human life, even "pre-life" such as an embryo or fetus, should be protected and nurtured. In that light, I very strongly support prophylactic birth control and think that such should be, not just part of a standard high school curriculum, but a mandatory part of a high school curriculum.

However, I think it would be a very grave mistake to recriminalize abortion. Women will have then regardless; that was the case decades ago when there was strong social stigma attached to it, and it will be even more the case nowadays if Roe v Wade is weakened or overturned. It would be much better for women to go to a trained professional, subject to professional oversight and (hopefully) an understanding and compassionate practitioner, than it would be for them to go to a back-alley surgeon who is breaking the law for money.

I have had women friends talk to me about wanting abortions (being a gay man, I'm a "safe friend" to talk to) and I have encouraged them to consider alternatives. But I have also gone with them to the clinics for the procedure, gotten them back home safely and made sure they were taking care of themselves and doing well afterwards. That, too, is part of my value system.
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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's just that.
I don't see it as different than a tonsillectomy, an appendectomy or wisdom teeth extraction. With the exception of a septic appendectomy, all three are technically optional (tonsils will usually respond to antibiotics), fairly minor and significantly improve or preserve the health/wellbeing of the person who chooses to undergo them.

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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. I confess I was a little sad when two of my friends had abortions
because they were both in good relationships and moving toward financial stability. They just decided they weren't ready, so I kept my big mouth shut and supported them. They went on within those good relationships and later produced children who turned out just as neat as I thought they would.

I guess I see abortion as a medical procedure with baggage.

I also see it as the purest form of self defense. I'd have had one without much consideration, as pregnancy would have threatened my life. I can't second guess the reason any woman has one. She knows what is best for her.

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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. it's medical and no one else's business and doctor's have a choice
to perform the procedure or not. I'm tired of the fundies sticking their damn noses between women's legs and mandating personal decision.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's how I see it...nt
Sid
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foreverdem Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. I do
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. I guess I don't see it strictly as a medical procedure
Keep in mind that:

I am pro-choice.
Child support issues aside, I don't believe that anyone can make the decision about whether to bear the child, but the mother.
I am an athiest.
I am a libertarian.

That said, personally, I think the reasons given for abortion and child abandonment are relatively similar, and that one shouldn't be looked upon as a "medical procedure," and the other looked upon as a crime. There is a severance of responsiblity as a actor who willingly created a potential living being.

I believe that everyone should have a choice, but that people can have their own personal opinions about when life begins, and do not have to apologize for their own feelings toward either mothers who abort, or fathers who walk away.

Again, that said, I don't believe it's a medical procedure, any more than I believe in the idea of the "surgical strike," or the idea of "human collateral."
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Think of it in terms of liability, then
An uncaring man drops a load into a woman he's lied into bed.

She gets pregnant and has a child. She incurs threats to her health and life due to the pregnancy and childbirth, plus a lifetime of financial loss due to the need to raise a child and having her career options limited. That man is liable for the damage he caused to that woman whether or not he ever wants to be daddy to that child.

That's just the way it is.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Damage?
Since when does a consensual act of sex constitute one party damaging the other? Women lie to get men into bed, too. And women are uncaring, too.

I don't like, either, to think of myself as a perpetual victim, just because I have a uterus. I do have a brain, and I know that every time that I have sex, I could end up pregnant. I also know that both men and women are dishonest, and that I need to be careful about those with whom I fraternize.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. Not only that I consider it a very private and a very personal
matter. Women have a right to chose how many children they will have and when they will have them. No one else really needs to be in this decision other than the obstetrician or surgeon that they consult. Most women will, of course, chose to include their husbands or mates in any of these decisions.

Other than that, the only butting in that should be done by the government is to make sure the doctors are licensed and clinics are certified as safe.
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. I do.
Medical procedure, that's all.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. It depends
I tend to think of it as a medical procedure during the first trimester and something more than that, after- though using a strict trimester schedule is a bit arbitrary. Fetal life is a continuum. A zygote is vastly different than a fetus of 6 months gestation.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Abortion is not the only medical
procedure that doesn't involve a painful or difficult decision. Life is complicated and filled with difficult choices. Perhaps their are women who go into abortions with little thought or concern, but I doubt it.

THe medical procedure is the end of the process. The beginning of the process, the decision, is the difficult part.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. It IS just a medical procedure.
And it's nobody's business but the doctor's and the patients.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. I consider it a medical procedure with the decision left to the patient.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
20. Saying it's a medical procedure doesn't mean
that it's without emotional resonance. Think about a mastectomy, a hysterectomy, or a man having to have a cancerous testicle removed. Do you think those procedures are without emotional resonance? Think again.

There are a lot of medical procedures that result in feelings of loss and sorrow. Abortion is one of them.

A fetus is a potential life; when it becomes life - well, that depends on how you define life. Cell division? Brain activity? Breathing? Heartbeat? They're ALL arbitrary. The point is, it's not truly INDEPENDENT life until it could survive without the mother. Sure, it's life. So is a rhinovirus. So is e.coli. It's not like human life is exactly endangered these days.

But I think it's somewhat disingenuous to claim that any woman can have an abortion with no more emotional reaction than a haircut (then again, I've known some women to have pretty serious reactions to haircuts). Sure, under some circumstances, it's removing a wart. In others, yes, it is the loss of a child to that woman. None of us are ever qualified to make that judgement for another. Every woman walks that road alone.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. to me it doesnt carry burden...which is why i think the burden is cultural
and religious...my friends who had abortions in india treat it as an expensive inconvenience...whereas people i know who have had abortions in this country see it more as an ending of human life...i think its because there is much more debate that a fetus is a human here than there is in india.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. i am not claiming that one has an abortion with no emotional reaction
i mean when i had my cysts taken out...i had some emotional reaction (mostly irritation, annoyance and boredom)....

what i am saying is to me its really a medical decision, and a minor medical decision at that.
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Me n/t
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Baconfoot Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Strictly medical and not evil at all at least in the 1st trimester NT
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. Well, what else would you call it?
It's between a woman and her doctor. Since I'm not a woman, or a doctor, it's really none of my business WHAT it is.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. agreed. i wish more men thought like that.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. There's exactly one -no more, no less- human body that I demand absolute
control and authority over.

That being my own.

I wish more *people*, particularly the ones who don't grasp that 'choice' sometimes means 'choices I don't like', thought like that.

Peace. Good thread.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
27. It is a medical procedure only
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 03:42 PM by VelmaD
And all these people trying to put tri-mester conditions on that are oblivious to the reasons women end up having second or (goddess forbid) third tri-mester abortions. They don't have them just for the hell of it. It's generally because there is a serious fetal abnormality or because the mother's health is at risk or because the state they live in puts so freakin' many restrictions on getting an abortion that the process stretched out into the second tri-mester. It is a medical procedure pure and simple.

And it's nobody's goddamn business but the woman's.
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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. All of healthcare has become political.
Ask any doctor. Managed care and the govt dictate medical practice these days.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Strictly medical...
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 03:35 PM by Solon
Hence why I advocate for NO restrictions on a MEDICAL procedure as long as the standard rules are applied. Sterile enviroments, licensed doctors, that sort of thing. I don't know, and better yet, I don't CARE when life begins, until the fetus is removed from the body of the women, its on the same level as a parasite or spleen that needs removing, if that is her choice. No one, not lawmakers, not even her SO needs to be involved, only her and her doctor, just like all other medical procedures.
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
30.  I do
Without exception
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. It is a medical procedure
I'm convinced life doesn't exist without experience.

Until it breathes, its not a life.
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