Would you pay 33-50% more to shop at a MADE IN THE USA Big-Box Store?

[leveymg]

Poll question: Would you pay 33-50% more to shop at a MADE IN THE USA Big-Box Store?

Assume they also pay a living wage and benes to their employees, and are a union shop.

There's a Wall*Mart right across the street.

Would you pay the premium price tag?

Be honest.

Poll result (102 votes)
Yes. Always (sorry, couldn't resist that)	(59 votes, 58%)	Vote
No, never. Price is all-important.	(13 votes, 13%)	Vote
Sometimes, for less expensive items.	(26 votes, 25%)	Vote
Yes, but only if they don't make their workers wear those ugly vests.	(2 votes, 2%)	Vote
Yes, I've got $10 million seed money. Where do I sign to get in on this?	(2 votes, 2%)	Vote

[mattclearing]

1. Dude, it's called Costco.

Get with it.

Edit: Not totally made in the USA, but it fits the description better than anything else.

[leveymg]

9. Made In USA is the focus here.

I shop Costco, never Wall*Mart.

My wife likes Target because they have stylish ads and stores.

[mattclearing]

13. Target donates 99% Republican.

Might as well be Wal-Mart.

[leveymg]

17. I'll tell her about that.

[mattclearing]

26. Another thing about Made in the USA.

I don't think there are enough manufacturing facilities in the US to facilitate this goal...you wouldn't be able to get comparable products that are made in the USA.

How many American electronics manufacturers are there? There goes a whole department.

It isn't very realistic.

More realistic is a store that does its best to moderate between profit and value for all stakeholders, including employees, consumers, and production facilities.

I like to think that Costco is just such a company.

[nickinSTL]

23. but, how do they treat their

employees and suppliers?

I don't like the Repub donations, but...it's a long drive to the nearest Costco.

[mattclearing]

29. Dunno.

I'd be curious to find out.

But still, every time one spends money at Target, you should know where your money is going.

[lectrobyte]

33. buyblue.org says they are are 83% repub vs. 17%, which is not

as bad as it sounds given how little they are contributing (217 thousand), compared to the 1.4 million of Walmart to Republicans. Seriously, given a choice between Wal Mart and Target, I'd like for folks to have all the info.

http://www.buyblue.org/node/1963/view/summary

[mattclearing]

46. Yeah, my stat was from a coupla years ago.

Still not worth patronizing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. I use the target pharmacy because Costco

does NOT take my insurance plan, and the hospital pharmacy was playing games.

[mattclearing]

64. That's too bad.

There's got to be something better, but so many grocery stores are Republican, and drugstores too.

[Atman]

35. My wife loved Target too.

She was thrilled when they opened a new store near us. We shopped there a few times before the 2004 "election." Afterwards...even my wife won't step foot in a Target. When your wife hears her money is going to support the RNC and the killing in Iraq, then maybe she'll get the bigger picture...cute dogs with bullseyes painted on their faces aren't worth another day of Bush in office.

[Kansas Wyatt]

37. I refuse to even approach a Wal Mart parking lot.

I also bitch, piss, and moan at Target about how they have become just like Wal Mart, and I refuse to ever go to Wal Mart anymore. Don't know if they are listening or not, but at least I get to disrespect Target as being a wannabe Wal Mart.

I have considered Cosco, but the whole club membership thing kills it for me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Tust me, one day of bying in bulk asves you the membership

also it ist he only place to get more or less affordable movie tickets

[mattclearing]

50. Yep. n/t

[mattclearing]

49. It's worth it.

$45 to support a company that pays its workers well, gives them proper benefits and donates to Democrats.

That's worth supporting.

And you can't beat the prices with a stick, either.

[politicat]

57. In terms of produce alone, we have saved more than the membership.

Lettuce at King Sooper's is $1.99 a head or $2.99 or $3.99 for a bag during the winter. A bag of romaine hearts at Costco is $2.79, and there are 6 romaine hearts in the bag. We get 4 pounds of spinach for less than a one pound bag costs at KS. Same with tomatoes, bananas, onions, potatoes....

Even if I end up throwing 2 of the romaine heads in the compost heap, it's still cheaper to buy our produce there.

And then there's the allergy medication, the shampoo, the flour, the splenda, honey, maple syrup, etc.

[cascadiance]

60. Target also was helping Arnold a lot in special election here in Cali...

with allowing his prop signature gatherers favored treatment in front of their stores. That reason alone puts them down on my list.

I shop a lot at Costco, but it is tough as a single person to shop there effectively without buying stuff that's "too much". The big quantity meals have affected my health recently too, since they aren't as conducive to trying to eat a reasonably sized balanced meal, as othser stores' products would. I either eat too much of one type of thing or a lot of it goes to waste.

What would be cool is if Costco would offer a "next door" convenience store (perhaps in the same area as their gas stations), which would sort of function like a large 7/11 and serve single customers and have later hours, etc. but still treat it's employees well with better pay, etc. and have more quality and U.S. workmanship as a drawing card to shop there. I could see myself even going there in the day time to augment my "bulk" purchases with buying smaller items I don't want to get in bulk after I get out of Costco. Pick up some gas to boot and I'll have done my "one stop" shopping, instead of having to go to Von's for a pint of milk, etc. afterwards.

Heck if Wal-Mart can have a "Sam's Club", then why not have another convenience store like this? Perhaps buy up 7/11 (since they do sell Citgo gas already here in California, which would make Costgo's gas stations that much more appealing). 7/11's also a "blue" company too last time I checked.

[KyuzoGator]

11. At least Costco treats its employees like human beings.

Everyone I know who works for Costco loves it and is very loyal. Great pay and benefits.

[NMDemDist2]

12. ding ding ding

we have a winner!

Costco RAWKS!

[MadMaddie]

16. Love Costco....best toilet paper....

costs a bit more but the quality.....it's the little things in life that are worth paying more for!!

[rfranklin]

31. Does it come with George W.'s face on it?

Remember to wipe thoroughly!

[MadMaddie]

39. Bwah....haw....haw....

[Minnesota Libra]

2. I'm on a fixed income so I have to watch prices at all times nt

[leftofthedial]

3. I will never cross the threshhold of a Wal*Mart

[wryter2000]

25. Neither have I

Nor will I.

I couldn't afford to spend 33% - 50% more for too many items. I don't have that kind of money, but I can afford to avoid the "good deals" at Walmart.

I'm Costco all the way. I even bought a few shares of stock.

[AnneD]

52. Use to live in Cloudcroft...

truly God's country-but unholy shopping. We would go down down the mt. to Alamagordo to shop and always tried to buy local. Alamo was the only place I knew where you could have money in your pocket and not be able to buy what you wanted. On different occasions I have: went to a Burger King-no Whoppers, Wendy's-no burgers AND chicken nuggets, a local hardware store-no penny nails, a local lumber yard-no 2x4's. Wal Mart was one of the few places there that was always stocked so you pretty much had no choice unless you wanted to take the 4 hour round trip to El Paso or Las Cruses.

[leftofthedial]

55. bummer

try Roswell.

[AnneD]

59. unless you want an

alien t-shirt...But the WalMart there at least has alien parking for outof world visitors. Yeah, unless you live in Santa Fe or Albuquerque, shopping is abysmal. I was the catalog queen while there.

[pitohui]

4. no i shop for price

in fact i drive past more expensive stores to go to the wall, i am not made of money

[mattclearing]

8. Especially not when they eat your taxes by encouraging their

employees to go on welfare.

No one saves money at Wal-Mart. One way or another, you will pay the piper.

[pitohui]

63. i pay taxes anyway

i can't afford to pay taxes and spiraling high prices on food too, hell, clothes i can do without, i've worn the same size for 30 years, but i do have this pesky need to eat

[mattclearing]

67. I'm just saying that ultimately saving money one place will lose it

somewhere else.

Your tax dollars and your money spent at Wal-Mart sure aren't contributing to getting you in a better position.

Healthcare prices are ridiculous.

Gas prices, which affect the price of everything.

My point is that saving money at Wal-Mart is going to bite people in the ass everywhere.

Wal-Mart contributes to Republicans, who make healthcare, gas, and everything else more expensive.

And then Wal-Mart has the nerve to eat up taxes in subsidies and welfare for their employees that they refuse to pay enough to get above the poverty line.

That shit is infuriating.

[leftofthedial]

69. ah. grease beneath the wheels of the hummers

as they race to the bottom!

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. Bought a Burberry's shirt and was pleased to see it was made in

the USA.

[NMDemDist2]

14. probably the Marianas

i'll bet it wasn't in North Carolina

[The_Casual_Observer]

28. You are probably right

[pitohui]

62. how much did it cost?

i picked up a burberry scarf at one of their vegas stores and it was priced at like $600!

crap, i can get a scarf at the wall for $6

for $600 it should have been handmade by newly discovered lifeforms on the moons of saturn!



$595 burberry scarf, pretty sure it's the same one i looked at, but this one's being offered by neiman marcus

i just don't think genuine burberry, as opposed to the many fakes around, is good value for the money

[The_Casual_Observer]

68. It was $150.

The scarfs are a lot of money for sure.

[Coexist]

6. Yes - honestly.

I have gotten into "discussions" with the coaches in my organization because I only purchase Wilson Footballs (still made here, baby!).

I don't make it a political argument - I just say, "Wilson footballs are the official size, and they are made in this country."

Since I live in a VERY red county, the Made in the USA goes over BIG time.

Wilson footballs are more expensive than Nike, and the board agrees to purchase them anyway.

[Coexist]

10. an interesting note - when I was halfway through reading

"Exporting America" by Lou Dobbs, I checked to see where it was printed - the U.S.A.

Glad to see he puts his business where his mouth is!!

[0007]

7. Price is very important to those who live on a fixed income.

[FredStembottom]

15. I voted yes but wonder

if it would be as bad as 33-50% more on every item?

If buying USA really did catch on, you gotta think that economies of scale would kick in within that all-American market.

[leveymg]

20. Great point. Thanks. Who has that $10 million out there?

[rucky]

18. I don't think you could fill a big-box store with enough items.

I'd think smaller: some mass market flagship lines, but mostly gourmet/regional items, gift items, handmade/crafts & boutique clothing maybe.

[earthboundmisfit]

19. Actually, I can only afford to shop at thrift stores and garage sales.

And I would prefer to buy used than buy new at Wal-Mart any day of the week! But if I could afford to buy new things, hell, yes, I'd pay the premium.

[pitohui]

65. in our area prices at thrifts are the same as prices at the wall

it is sad to say but prices for clothes are the same whether you buy them new at the wall or used at the thrifts

because of katrina there are so many clothes donations that the thrifts are not even accepting them any more, as there is not enough staff to process and tag them

consignment is at least double a similar item at the wall

these days unless it's underwear the best option for "new" clothes for me is the freecycle route

[timbnyc44]

21. Clinton Quiet About Wal-Mart Ties

The AP has a story just out about Clinton and her history with Wal-Mart. Her opponent in the Dem primary for US Sentate, Jonathan Tasini, is quoted saying that her failure to recall what she actually did at Wal-Mart "strains credulity." A polite way to put it, I'd say.



NEW YORK - With retail giant Wal-Mart under fire to improve its labor and health care policies, one Democrat with deep ties to the company — Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton — has started feeling her share of the political heat.


Clinton served on Wal-Mart's board of directors for six years when her husband was governor of Arkansas. And the Rose Law Firm, where she was a partner, handled many of the Arkansas-based company's legal affairs.

Clinton had kind words for Wal-Mart as recently as 2004, when she told an audience at the convention of the National Retail Federation that her time on the board "was a great experience in every respect."

....

But Hillary Clinton, who as first lady proposed a wide-ranging but ultimately unsuccessful plan to reshape the nation's health care system, has had little to say about Wal-Mart's health care record.

"That was a long time ago," she said recently when asked if she had done anything about the company's health care policies while she served on its board.

That comment was met with disbelief from Jonathan Tasini, a longtime labor organizer mounting a longshot challenge to Clinton in New York's Democratic Senate primary.

"Voters would find it a strained argument to believe that the senator who prides herself on intelligence and knowledge of detail can't recall any details in this case. It just strains credulity," Tasini said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060310/ap_on_el_se/hillary... ;_ylt=AmLjFynyuTJdp6Yysy0qTgOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNlYwM5NjQ-

[leveymg]

27. Off topic. There's already another thread on that.

That's where I got this idea. Someone said there that 17-18-20 years ago, when Hillary worked at Rose law firm, Wall*Mart advertised itself with a Made In the USA slogan. Anyone know if that's true?

[pitohui]

66. everyone knows that's true

if you were breathing at the time you could not avoid or evade the omni-present "made in usa" flag waving of sam walton

of course people bitched about as nationalism and jingo-ism just as they bitch nowadays when wally world is all "made in china," seems people will always bitch, so what do you do?

[genieroze]

43. Hellory is a freaking DINO.

[Ladyhawk]

22. I can't afford anything over absolute necessities.

I can't even afford necessities like clothing half the time. Luckily, I have enough clothes to last me awhile. I've worn the same clothes for years.

Even when I can afford to shop, I don't go to Wal*Mart. In the past two years I've only gone in there once to buy underwear.

[Greyhound]

24. No appropriate choice available for my opinion. My answer would be

Yes, on three conditions;
1. All of the workers from the manufacturer to distribution to the retailer, are paid a real living wage. (obviously this is multiples of the minimum wage)
2. Management receives salary and benefits in line with their performance. (none of this 500 X average worker salary crap)
3. It is efficiently run to keep prices down a la Trader Joe's.

[Atman]

30. Where is the option to NOT SHOP IN BIG BOX STORES!

Just don't do it! Stay out of Big Boxes! They're blights on our communities...stay out of them, wait until they fold, then convert them into senior housing and community centers. Buy your goods from PEOPLE who actually are happy to have your business, as it allows them to eat. If Home Depot never sold so much as another 3-Penny nail, every member of the CEO's family would still be wealthy for the next several generations. But what about the guy at your local hardware store?

[leveymg]

40. I agree with you.

There's a little family-owned hardware store called Fischer's near where I live in the Northern VA area. They have the best service and a real selection of nuts and bolts. I go there, even though it's a little further away and about 50 percent more for most things -- but, some items are actually less than Darth Vader's HomeDepot.

[FLSurfer]

53. It was nice to see others agreed with your post Atman.

I also don't go into those kinds of stores.
As for the poll. I have no idea how much more money I am spending than if I went to Walmart.
I haven't been in one to know what their prices are.

[flamin lib]

32. Just voted "always" and my money is where my mouth is

I already shop at local small business and will have a root canal before going into Walmart, Home Depot, or any of the mega marts. Shop at small ethnic markets too--can buy a year's supply of cinnamon stix for $3 and same with other spices. Very large shrimp head on and on ice from the boat for $2.50/pound. Fresh fish from the Gulf at 1/2 grocery store price (not often, too much mercury and pcps).

I do buy most groceries from major chains tho.

[leveymg]

34. Would someone be kind enought to poll this at "that other" site?

Assuming they do polls. I'd be very curious to see how our friends on the Right would answer this.

I'm banned.

BTW: What other sites host polls?

[madokie]

36. in an okie heartbeat

i would replace all the chinese made stuff i have been pretty much forced to buy these last few years. Hell my damn computer is made in china, every damn thing in it. Dam I wished we had a Costco around here.

[pdx_prog]

38. I shop Costco a lot...

I have bought my share of goods from Wal-Mart in the past. In smaller towns across the US WM is peoples' only choice. The supercenters come in and the smaller places (including grocery stores) just plain go under. I purchased two different VCR's from WM back in the early 90's. They were both top of the line (and price range) RCA units. Both of them just stopped working within a year of bringing them home.

WM just plain sells cheap products. The manufactures have to cut so many corners on materials and quality just to be able to get their products into WM. They aren't the only ones though.....The Home Depot is the WM of the home improvement world. Beware of any power tools, accessories and electrical supplies sold through THD. Check to see where it is made....if it say's "Made in China" just put it back and find another product. Lot's of products made in the US just 5 years ago are now made in China and the quality is just not there anymore. The CPSC estimated that 65% of all Chinese products in these categories were rejected and sent back to China last year. They perform a quick fix on these and send them right back over here. By the time problems are discovered with these products, and the proper paperwork and procedures are followed it is too late. The Chinese gets wind of the problems and corrects them before the proper authorities can investigate. By that time another problem usually makes itself known and the cycle starts all over again. I am in the power tool industry and one particular problem with a certain electrical chain saw from last year was that the throttle would stick in the on position. This is not the position you want the throttle to stick in on a chain saw..

[Gormy Cuss]

41. Yes, for low priced items. Maybe for higher priced goods.

I already do it with food. I buy American-grown organic produce, beans, and grains and failing that locally grown products from small farms. Same deal with meat and fish. Sometimes the price is 50-75% higher, but the actual dollar difference is small and I can afford it.

When it comes to pricier goods I will pay 20% more for bona fide American made without question. Thirty-three to fifty percent higher would give me pause on an item that Cheapmart sold for $500 or more. If I perceived a quality difference, absolutely. Quality can either be in the product itself or the customer service reputation of the manufacturer.

[progressoid]

42. My wife and I have this argument all the time.

She wants our jobs to stay here but we can't afford to buy $15 T-shirts or a $4 head of lettuce.

[FormerDittoHead]

44. No way US labor costs would be 33% more...

Nike doesn't make their sneaks overseas because they're barely making a profit on them at $100 a pair...

The labor costs per pair represents a very small percentage at the retail level.

Made in the USA, goods would be only a few percent in difference at the retail level.

Labor is exported because capitalism demands not just profit / return on investment, but MAXIMUM profit.

To (global) investors, if you can make a 10% return in the Phillipines versus only a 5% return in the US.

Of course, if we simply had tarriffs, this would be equalized.

[Cats Against Frist]

45. My answer is "no," but only because

I do everything in my fucking power to avoid shopping at a national chain, in the first place.

So, if, at the Wal-Mart a widget costs 6 bucks, and at the All-American-All-the-Time Big Boxx Exxxtravaganza it costs 8 bucks, I'm going to go to the locally owned hardware store, and buy it for 8 bucks. But, before that, I'm going to listen to the "Swap-n-Shop" on the radio, check out the auction listings, cruise eBay, and check the secondhand store. THEN, if I can't find it, I'll head over to Paul's hardware, and buy the best-made one at any price, so I don't have to buy another one for a looonnnnnng time.

Let's give a few examples, for common household items:

Toilet Paper -- will buy Green Forest at locally owned co-op.

Fancy pink dish-scrubber -- won't get one. I'll use rags and a scraper.

Silverware set -- find cool forks at antique show, garage sales or secondhand store.

Dining room table -- Check the curb, the auctions, the thrift stores.

Clothes -- eBay, thrift

Shampoo -- locally owned co-op sells locally made honey shampoo.

Really sharp knife for kitchen cutting -- buy used knives, sharpen them.

Plastic bags -- save cottage cheese containers, use instead.

Perfume -- buy at black phoenix alchemy lab, online (no, I do not work for them)

New Video Game for son -- eBay

Three-ring binder -- thrift store. Might get one with the Monkees on it. Yeah!

You get the picture. Some things, of course, you must buy new. How do you do it? You try to buy your other shit extra cheap, don't pay for anything outside its use value, and you can afford to splurge on some quality made-in-america shit from a reputable local retailer.

[hughee99]

51. When I tried to buy a snow shovel last winter,

I had an interesting dilemma... I first tried my local hardware store, who only had one kind of shovel, it was over $45 and not made in the USA. That was a little steep for me so I decided to try a "big box" store. Similar shovel, better quality (IMHO anyway), made in the USA, $25. Now do I overpay for a lower quality shovel made in a foreign country just to support my local store, or do I buy the less expensive, higher quality, American made shovel and support the big box store? I chose the latter. It seems like many believe that local stores always sell local products (when they can, anyway). From what I've seen anyway, local stores in my area are selling some products that are lower quality and foreign made, to help increase profit margins.

[Coexist]

54. not always - this is one of my favorite articles:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.ht...

The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart

Every year, thousands of executives venture to Bentonville, Arkansas, hoping to get their products onto the shelves of the world's biggest retailer. But Jim Wier wanted Wal-Mart to stop selling his Snapper mowers
<snip>
That's the question that motivated Jim Wier to stop doing business with Wal-Mart. Wier is too judicious to describe it this way, but he looked into a future of supplying lawn mowers and snow blowers to Wal-Mart and saw a whirlpool of lower prices, collapsing profitability, offshore manufacturing, and the gradual but irresistible corrosion of the very qualities for which Snapper was known. Jim Wier looked into the future and saw a death spiral.

Wier had two things going for him: First, he had another way to get his lawn mowers to customers--a well-established network of independent lawn-equipment dealers that accounted for 80% of Snapper's sales. And Wier had the courage, the foresight, to take an unblinking view of where his Wal-Mart business was heading--not in year 3, or year 4, but year 10.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. I shop for best quality at lowest price. Don't care where it's made.

Guatamalans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Mexicans, gotta eat too.

[Atman]

58. I guess you don't fully understand

You're right, they all do "gotta eat." But Wal Mart isn't using cheap Chinese slave labor to help the Chinese slaves laborers. It uses cheap Chinese slave labor to help the Walton family and its shareholders.

I was reading recently about a fair-trade coffee company who couldn't get a start-up loan because his business model called for going to these depressed regions and PAYING FAIR MARKET PRICE for coffee, which was often DOUBLE what the big retailers were paying the farmers. Lender laughed at him. He said "fuck 'em" and found other funding.

Several years later, he now is doing very well, and has made enough money to build health clinics in Guatemalan villages and schools in El Salvador. Wal Mart, otoh, is in it only for Wal Mart.

The Waltons gotta eat, too, you know.

[Yollam]

61. Yes, but I don't think the cost would be that much higher.

Very little of the savings from manufacturing overseas is passed on to the customers at the retail level. Some of it is eaten up by higher shipping costs, most of the rest is taken by the companies as higher profit.

For example Wal-Mart forced Etch-a-Sketch to move its production overseas to push the wholesale price per unit down by a matter of cents. Its almost as though they have an emotional need to destroy jobs.

[DFLer4edu]

70. Are people answering honestly or emotionally?

I don't know, 30%-50% is more money than you realize. I guess my question to everyone who said yes is do you drive an American car made in a factory with a union? I am sure some of you do, but my guess would be that a lot of you don't. If you do, more power to you, but if you don't, do you really think you're going to pay 30-50% more for clothing so that it has a made in USA label when you won't pay roughly the same price as for a foreign made car to have an American made car? Especially is we changed the store across the street to something a little bit more respectable than Wal-Mart, I don't think 60% of us would pay significantly more for the USA label.

[fujiyama]

71. I certainly do like

to get something "made in the USA". It's nice to know you're supporting the local economy (my friends laugh that I buy local brews all the time - they buy the mass marketed beer).

In certain industries it's impossible to find things completely manufactured in the US. Electronics are sourced from all over.

I'll buy the best product I'll get quality wise I can for the money. But I have some standards - I simply will not spend a cent from Wal*Mart (B and M store or online). The store itself has a creepy atmosphere, aside from the fact that they treat workers like shit, and it's mostly cheap junk anyways. If I absolutely had to get something that only Wal Mart had, I'd buy it reluctantly but I'd make well sure that it was my last option.

Besides, I can most likely find better quality stuff online.

And for those things I can't get online, I'll get them at local grocery stores and Costco.